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jetjack74
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Just Words....................?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:37 pm

Just Words.......? Hrrmmmmm, sounds somewhat similar to Deval Patrick.


I apologise if this has been posted before, it's not mean't to be plagiarism
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HALFA
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RE: Just Words....................?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:02 pm

And your point is?

Looks like another pathetic attempt by conservatives here on Anet to discredit Senator Obama. For the record, Senator Obama and Governor Patrick are friends and political allies. They have both used each others speeches in campaigns before, and both have paraphrased Dr. Martin Luther King before. This is common practice with candidates from both parties. What exactly is your problem with this Jack?
Apparently, Governor Patrick has no problem with Senator Obama's speech.
The Obama campaign has issued a statement from Gov. Patrick: “Sen. Obama and I are long-time friends and allies. We often share ideas about politics, policy and language. The argument in question, on the value of words in the public square, is one about which he and I have spoken frequently before. Given the recent attacks from Sen. Clinton, I applaud him responding in just the way he did.” Quoted from ABC News.
If this is the worst dirt you can dig up on Obama, I feel really sorry for you and the other conservatives. You are in for a long 8 years.

HALFA
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NIKV69
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RE: Just Words....................?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:11 pm

We don't need to dig up any dirt. Educated voters know what Obama wants for this country. He wants to destroy capitiism and put socialism in it's place. Which is no surprise, Hillary wants the same thing. I wouldn't be so sure about those 8 years just yet. Plenty of people in this country don't want a president who will attack the private sector because he feels they make too much money or tax us to death. Just remember sooner or later good ol Obama will actually have to debate with facts and not just rhetoric.
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HALFA
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RE: Just Words....................?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:33 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
Educated voters know what Obama wants for this country.

Absolutely right, and that's why he leads John McCain in almost every major poll. Educated voters also know what a McCain White House would look like. 100 more years in Iraq. No thank you.

HALFA
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jetjack74
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RE: Just Words....................?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:42 pm



Quoting HALFA (Reply 1):
And your point is?

The point is, that many people are basing their reason for voting for Obama based on his "inspiring words", which is looking like they aren't his. Just a thought.

Quoting HALFA (Reply 1):
Looks like another pathetic attempt by conservatives here on Anet to discredit Senator Obama. For the record,

Oh give me a break. If this was John McCain, you would be all over this like white on rice.

Quoting HALFA (Reply 1):
What exactly is your problem with this Jack?

My problem is, that when someone is winning on a words-only campaign which looks like it was lifted directly from a speech by a governor in his campaign speech. The flamed Joe Biden for plagairism, why is Obama exempt? What is your passiveness for this. Plagiarism, in case your unaware, is illegal. If Obama gave credit to Gov Patrick, than I wouldn't look at this as lifting these words from the speech. Of course Gov Patrick isn't going to derail the campaign of the man he's endorsing when he's flaming Hillary.
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jetjack74
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RE: Just Words....................?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:49 pm



Quoting HALFA (Reply 3):
Absolutely right, and that's why he leads John McCain in almost every major poll.

Becuase people have yet to get an explanation of his platform yet. When he has to actually explain his position and his proposals, his poll numbers are going to nosedive. But that ok, i'm sure there's a portion of the Gettysburg Address he can snipe as his own.
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NIKV69
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RE: Just Words....................?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:17 pm



Quoting HALFA (Reply 3):
Absolutely right, and that's why he leads John McCain in almost every major poll. Educated voters also know what a McCain White House would look like. 100 more years in Iraq. No thank you.

Yea Kerry was ahead in the polls too. Wait for the night that counts. The polls show it pretty close and I wouldn't count on another "we need to get out of Iraq" soapbox. McCain doesn't want to be in Iraq for 100 years that is codepink propaganda.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 4):
The point is, that many people are basing their reason for voting for Obama based on his "inspiring words", which is looking like they aren't his. Just a thought.

Pretty accurate, Obama's campaign has been run beautifully. Once they saw the hatred for Hillary after what happened they got him talking and got him saying transparent things that inspire people by promising them everything and not having to tell them how.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 4):
My problem is, that when someone is winning on a words-only campaign which looks like it was lifted directly from a speech by a governor in his campaign speech. The flamed Joe Biden for plagairism, why is Obama exempt

Cause the left wing press and codepink and moveon.org have coronated him as the Dem nominee. Wait to you see the DNC convention. The press is already saying if Obama loses that it will only be if it's stolen from him.
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davestanKSAN
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RE: Just Words....................?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:46 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 6):
McCain doesn't want to be in Iraq for 100 years that is codepink propaganda.

Wrong. See video below:



As for the topic at hand, yet another pathetic attempt to smear Sen. Obama. Disagree with his issues, that's fine. Taking something like this video and passing it off as something to oppose Sen Obama for, that's just another non-issue. Don't tell me you don't know where he stands on issues either, because if you say that, you haven't been studying Sen. Obama's stances very closely.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
NIKV69
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RE: Just Words....................?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:42 pm



Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 7):
As for the topic at hand, yet another pathetic attempt to smear Sen. Obama. Disagree with his issues, that's fine. Taking something like this video and passing it off as something to oppose Sen Obama for, that's just another non-issue

Typical, I find it funny how on one hand you can say you are inspired my Obama's words yet can discount the fact these certain ones are not his. Clearly it shows the use of propaganda and how the DNC will do anything to win.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 7):
Don't tell me you don't know where he stands on issues either, because if you say that, you haven't been studying Sen. Obama's stances very closely.

Oh I know exactly where he stands on the issues, it is why he scares me to death and I haven't jumped on the bandwagon.
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jetjack74
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RE: Just Words....................?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:48 pm



Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 7):
As for the topic at hand, yet another pathetic attempt to smear Sen. Obama.

It isn't. You reaction is, just another attempt of concealing this guys negativities(which is his vagueness when it comes to DETAILS). He's a public figure and subject to scrutiny. Just like you have every right to criticize Bush, Reagan or any other Republican.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 7):
Disagree with his issues, that's fine.

Which I do. I don't like his universal heathcare, his proposal to downsize the military, his social stance on the economy and his foriegn policy stance. There are a few minor things I agre with Obama on, but when I say minor, I mean miniscule.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 7):
Taking something like this video and passing it off as something to oppose Sen Obama for, that's just another non-issue.

It is totally relevant. As a public figure, he is subject to being put under the microscope. You regard anything that paints an unflattering picture of Senator Obama as an attack is silly and makes you look like a crybaby.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 7):
Don't tell me you don't know where he stands on issues either, because if you say that, you haven't been studying Sen. Obama's stances very closely.

I do know where he stands. I've done my research on him and I don't like his platform. He is vague, evasive, and secretive. He has many big ideas, but no discription on how to pay or implement these big plans. You sound like a paid-campaign rep for this guy. Are you on his payroll? Have you been to Camp Obama?
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11012254

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 7):
Wrong. See video below:

McCain readily admits he has no plan to make public a timetable. He doesn't want to appeal to the anti-war left. So, not exactly a bombshell
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n521na
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RE: Just Words....................?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:44 pm

So McCain and Clinton can use "Fired up and ready to go," but when Obama uses Deval Patrick's words its a huge issue?
 
davestanKSAN
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RE: Just Words....................?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:51 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 8):
Typical, I find it funny how on one hand you can say you are inspired my Obama's words yet can discount the fact these certain ones are not his. Clearly it shows the use of propaganda and how the DNC will do anything to win.

I find it typical that you would rally around this pathetic attempt to smear Sen. Obama. That's okay though, whatever floats your boat. I never discounted that he might have been inspired by other's words, it's not unusual for someone to do so. If he would have quoted Mr. Patrick's speech line for line, then maybe your point would be more clearer. Alas, Sen. Obama didn't do that, and your point is clouded with disillusionment.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 9):
It isn't. You reaction is, just another attempt of concealing this guys negativities(which is his vagueness when it comes to DETAILS). He's a public figure and subject to scrutiny. Just like you have every right to criticize Bush, Reagan or any other Republican.

Of course it is. It's really a non-issue. My reaction is a logical one; I viewed the video, didn't see your point, and challenged you on it, period. I never said you didn't have the right to criticize Sen. Obama, I would just think the criticism would be over something more then this nonsensical subject.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 9):


Which I do. I don't like his universal heathcare, his proposal to downsize the military, his social stance on the economy and his foriegn policy stance. There are a few minor things I agre with Obama on, but when I say minor, I mean miniscule.

And I accept that. If you'd started a thread about one of those topics that would be legitimate criticism. This video is nothing more then a smear attempt, and that's all I see it as.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 9):
It is totally relevant. As a public figure, he is subject to being put under the microscope. You regard anything that paints an unflattering picture of Senator Obama as an attack is silly and makes you look like a crybaby.

 laughing  I'm the crybaby? Who started this tread again? Again, I welcome open criticism, but when it's something as belittling as this, I find it downright pointless.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 9):
McCain readily admits he has no plan to make public a timetable. He doesn't want to appeal to the anti-war left. So, not exactly a bombshell

I posted that video in response to Nick's assertion:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 6):
McCain doesn't want to be in Iraq for 100 years that is codepink propaganda.

Which he conveniently skipped over on his reply to me.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
HALFA
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RE: Just Words....................?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:08 pm



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 4):
The point is, that many people are basing their reason for voting for Obama based on his "inspiring words",


And many others are voting for Obama based on his stance on important issues facing our nation, not to mention that he is intelligent, articulate, and wont be an embarrassment on the world stage unlike our current leader.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 4):
Oh give me a break. If this was John McCain, you would be all over this like white on rice.

No Jack, I wouldn't. I have better things to do with my time. This is a non issue.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
When he has to actually explain his position and his proposals, his poll numbers are going to nosedive

That's what you think. I can't wait until the McCain/Obama debates.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 6):
McCain doesn't want to be in Iraq for 100 years that is codepink propaganda.

Could you please explain the video clip that Dave posted?

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 7):
As for the topic at hand, yet another pathetic attempt to smear Sen. Obama. Disagree with his issues, that's fine. Taking something like this video and passing it off as something to oppose Sen Obama for, that's just another non-issue.

Absolutely.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 11):
I'm the crybaby? Who started this tread again? Again, I welcome open criticism, but when it's something as belittling as this, I find it downright pointless.

Again, I'm in total agreement, but what's a conservative to do? They are unhappy with THEIR choice of Republican nominee, so they are relegated to grasping at straws to find anything they can to discredit Senator Obama , even non-issues. Their desperation is showing and it will only get worse before November comes along.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 11):
I posted that video in response to Nick's assertion:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 6):
McCain doesn't want to be in Iraq for 100 years that is codepink propaganda.

Which he conveniently skipped over on his reply to me.

 checkmark 

HALFA
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FriendlySkies
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RE: Just Words....................?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:52 pm

All of Obama's stances on issues are explained on his website, and on more than one news site. Why don't you guys try reading instead of smearing him?
 
NIKV69
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RE: Just Words....................?

Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:59 pm



Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 11):
I find it typical that you would rally around this pathetic attempt to smear Sen. Obama. That's okay though, whatever floats your boat. I never discounted that he might have been inspired by other's words, it's not unusual for someone to do so. If he would have quoted Mr. Patrick's speech line for line, then maybe your point would be more clearer. Alas, Sen. Obama didn't do that, and your point is clouded with disillusionment.

I am not rallying around anything. Why is it when someone points out your saviors shortcomings it has to be a smear? You the one who is dillusional since you idolize this guy yet can't see throught the smoke screen that comes out of his mouth.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 11):

Which he conveniently skipped over on his reply to me.

McCain made reference to the fact we still occupy many countries after we had war there. Doesn't mean wre are going to have the same # of troops there forever. What it means is he is going to continue to stabilize the country and not cut and run and make Al Qaida stronger. When Iraq can function and have a democracy and are able to fight AL Qaida we will leave.

Quoting HALFA (Reply 12):
Again, I'm in total agreement, but what's a conservative to do? They are unhappy with THEIR choice of Republican nominee, so they are relegated to grasping at straws to find anything they can to discredit Senator Obama , even non-issues. Their desperation is showing and it will only get worse before November comes along.

LOLOL, this made me fall from my chair. We don't have to grasp at straws and contrary to what you hear on talk radio and CNN the Rep party is not in turmoil. You are the ones that have been grasping at straws for the last 8 years because you have pinned the hopes of your party by bashing the other. Your plan for the country both domestic and abroard is scary and downright dangerous and now your reduced to a snake oil salesman who can wow a crowd yet has no substance. Who tells us how he will solve the problems in the middle east by calling up all the leaders for a pow wow and how he can help the poor by hurting the percentage of the population who goes out and earns a good living, me I like Capilism and hard work. Not socialism and dreams.
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HALFA
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:39 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 14):
We don't have to grasp at straws and contrary to what you hear on talk radio and CNN the Rep party is not in turmoil.

I don't listen to talk radio, but I do get my news from several sources and it's clear, the republican party is not united behind John McCain. Last I checked, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham and the list goes on, have all gone on record as saying they do NOT support McCain and are still uncommitted to vote for him. Mitt Romney has blasted McCain on everything from economics to immigration and now we are supposed to believe that they are all one big happy Republican family? Yah sure.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 14):
You are the ones that have been grasping at straws for the last 8 years because you have pinned the hopes of your party by bashing the other.

For the last 8 years, the Democrats have had lots of things to bash the Republicans over.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 14):
Your plan for the country both domestic and abroard is scary and downright dangerous

Are you serious? What's more dangerous for Americans than having a president (GWB) that illegally invades a sovereign nation based on misinformation and lies, a nation that posed no threat to America, an act that has killed thousands of our American heroes, and all for what? Are we now safer? Hell no. And McCain wants to continue the status quo there now, ignoring the will of the majority of Americans that want our troops home NOW, and not 100 YEARS from now. I would say that is far more dangerous for America than anything Senator Obama has proposed.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 14):
me I like Capilism and hard work. Not socialism and dreams.

Me, I like my tax dollars going to help Americans and to help repair our infrastructure and not going overseas to bomb other countries so that we can spend billions upon billions of OUR tax dollars to then go and repair the damage that we've caused. We could have rebuilt New Orleans 10 fold with the money we have waisted destroying and rebuilding Iraq.

Our country is in desperate need of a new direction and I believe Senator Obama provides us one.

HALFA
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davestanKSAN
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:58 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 14):
I am not rallying around anything.

Of course you are. You saw an opportunity to bash your political enemy, and you took it.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 14):
Why is it when someone points out your saviors shortcomings it has to be a smear? You the one who is dillusional since you idolize this guy yet can't see throught the smoke screen that comes out of his mouth.

Savior? Cute, real cute. Anyway you can hardly call this video a "shortcoming." There is no smoke screen here. Just a failed attempt to belittle Sen. Obama.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 14):
McCain made reference to the fact we still occupy many countries after we had war there. Doesn't mean wre are going to have the same # of troops there forever. What it means is he is going to continue to stabilize the country and not cut and run and make Al Qaida stronger. When Iraq can function and have a democracy and are able to fight AL Qaida we will leave.

Nevertheless, you were still wrong when you said:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 6):
McCain doesn't want to be in Iraq for 100 years that is codepink propaganda.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
KPWM
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:22 am

I guess Clinton is using that speech against Obama. (see article) "Mr. Obama dismissed the charge as absurd and desperate." I agree.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/19/us/politics/19campaign.html?ref=us
94
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:09 am



Quoting HALFA (Reply 12):
I can't wait until the McCain/Obama debates.

Me neither. In all of the debates, when he was blindsided by Hillary and Edwards, he stood there with a blank stare looking for things to say. He's been given pass by all the critics since early on, and will no doubt continue. McCain has been totally forthright in his answers about his campaign message, where Obama is filled with rhetoric and talking points. His whole campaign is rests on teleprompters, which makes him sound so appealing. Take the teleprompter away, and replace it index cards, he sounds flustered and confused. This is what will do him in on the debates

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 11):
Who started this tread again? Again, I welcome open criticism, but when it's something as belittling as this, I find it downright pointless.

I started it becuase it broke on MSNBC, one of the liberal media outlets. Furthermore, Senator Joe Biden was forced to resign over his plagiarism. Why did he have to resign? Was it becuase clear-thinking Americans know you can't trust a man when lies straight-faced to the American people. Oh wait, that's right, Clinton did, so it's ok. That's a great lesson to teach your kids

Quoting HALFA (Reply 12):
And many others are voting for Obama based on his stance on important issues facing our nation, not to mention that he is intelligent, articulate, and wont be an embarrassment on the world stage unlike our current leader.

He is very intelligent and articulate. There are lots of those around, but that's not what makes them qualified to be leaders. Some are good at bamboozling people under the guise that he's "articulate"

Quoting HALFA (Reply 12):
No Jack, I wouldn't. I have better things to do with my time. This is a non issue.

I think you would, especially now. Maybe you wouldn't start a thread, but you'd chime in though.

Quoting HALFA (Reply 12):
They are unhappy with THEIR choice of Republican nominee,

Not really.True McCain wasn't my first choice, but he is a good candidate, and has alot of pull with congress and the senate. I think he'll do well with most Republicans and sway the independant vote. The more of Obama we see, the more convinced this guy is an empty suit

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 13):
All of Obama's stances on issues are explained on his website, and on more than one news site.

And still, many of his supporters are unable to explain his platform. They throw out talking points(much like Obama) without the slightest bit of real explanations. But that ok, he's "articulate"

Quoting HALFA (Reply 15):
Last I checked, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham and the list goes on, have all gone on record as saying they do NOT support McCain and are still uncommitted to vote for him.

That was not the case. Ann Coulter said she would vote for Hillary if McCain was the nominee, but she's loon in herself ,much like most of the liberl wackjobs on the left. Yes it is true that McCain does have some work to do with the conservative base, but that will come over time. The opposing side has never been stacked with some uch ineptitude as with Obama and Clinton. 2 dolts who couldn't work their way out of a out of a tigers ass with cleats on.

Quoting HALFA (Reply 15):
lies,

And you have evidence that they lied? I'd like to see this when you have time.
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Falcon84
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:44 am



Quoting Jetjack74 (Thread starter):
Just Words.......? Hrrmmmmm, sounds somewhat similar to Deval Patrick.

Like you would have even known who Deval Patrick was if it weren't for this article and this attempt by the Clinton camp to discredit Obama.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
We don't need to dig up any dirt. Educated voters know what Obama wants for this country. He wants to destroy capitiism and put socialism in it's place.



Sad part is, you actually believe such utter nonsense, don't you. You REALLY believe it. It shows, again, just how removed from reality you are, and how far to the right you are. It's so idiotic as to be sad.

Amazing, you two have to have HIllary hand you an "issue". Ever think of that? It isn't an issue, and won't amount to a hill of beans, but it shows how low you guys will go.
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jetjack74
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:30 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
Like you would have even known who Deval Patrick was if it weren't for this article and this attempt by the Clinton camp to discredit Obama.

Another false premonition Falcon. I knew who Deval Patrick was long before this, long before.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
It isn't an issue, and won't amount to a hill of beans, but it shows how low you guys will go.

What is sad Falcon is, the sheer idea that you're willing to give this guy a pass on everything that is ethical. I know an ethical politician is kind of an oxymoron, like an honest lawyer, but he's pubilc figure and viewed as role-model especially in the African-American community. He bills himself as a candidate of change, and he's showing himslef as just another experianced politician, and showing his arrogance, that he's above what he's preaching. He refuse to show his allegiance by placing his hand over his heart when honors are given to the flag, but yet wants to be the President of the United States where it's written in the United States Code:During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. -- United States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171
The Time Magazine photo speaks volumes about his character

As a member of the Armed Forces, I find this to capture the pinnacle of modern-day ignorance for the flag. When I go to ball games and people don't stand for the national anthem, or take their hats off, makes me cringe with how little we've come. But I digress, preaching to people who could care less about it. Good for them, but Obama is supposed to be setting an example, and I bet he wishes he could have that moment back.
But you have to realise this Falcon, if you were found to have plagairised a speech, or a thesis in college, you would thrown out off campus, or if you had already graduated, your degree could beforfieted, even if it was marginally evident that you knew about it. I know you'll completely ignore this, but if John McCain was found to have done this, I would be very disappointed and probably wouldn't vote for him, becuase I don't know if I could trust him, or his judgement. That is what is sad. You're a father of 2, maybe 3 children, and think this is ok, or not a big deal is telling. Sorry, it is a big deal. It's a serious character flaw. But he'll always have you as apologist
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HALFA
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:01 am

HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:18 am



Quoting HALFA (Reply 21):
Since you asked.........

If all this is true, then why hasn't the Democrat congress and Senate brought Bush and Cheney in for a hearing? Can you tell me that? I'll tell you why, becuase they know they CAN'T PROVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You cited articles that are merely OPINIONS, not FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NewsFlash:you don't need to have a law degree to be able to distinguish between the two.
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Falcon84
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:20 am



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 20):
What is sad Falcon is, the sheer idea that you're willing to give this guy a pass on everything that is ethical.

 rotfl 

You have the nerve to accuse me of giving a pass on eithics, after your 8 years of blind support to a president who started a war wtihout real justification; who holds prisoners without charge or counsel; who hides everything he does behind a Iron Curtain of paranoia and secrecy? And you complan about a guy who borrows a few lines from a speech.

I think you need to take a long walk off a short plank, dude, because you've lost it.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 20):
I know you'll completely ignore this, but if John McCain was found to have done this, I would be very disappointed and probably wouldn't vote for him

I wouldn't give a rats' ass if he did, because I don't think it's a big deal. Again, I think you have your morality pretty ass backwards, JetJack.

And, again, with that picture of Sen. Obama standing respectfully while the Anthem is being played, shows again how out of touch you are. No one gives a fuck that he doesn't hold his hand over his heart, but you, and a few other right wing zealots, who seemingly demand allegiance only in ways acceptable to you. You compound your pushing one non-issue, with bringing up another. It shows, again, how utterly out of touch with reality you are. I do not hold my hand over my heart when the Anthem is played. I have my either clasped behind me or in front of me, and I sing the anthem. But, again, I'm sure that's not good enough for the patriotism police like yourself.

Find a real issue, then maybe someone will take you seriously.
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Falcon84
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:23 am



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 22):
If all this is true, then why hasn't the Democrat congress and Senate brought Bush and Cheney in for a hearing? Can you tell me that? I'll tell you why, becuase they know they CAN'T PROVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because, unlike the Republicans, they don't see the need to do so, since Bush has 335 days left in office. The truth about these two will come out, and, I'm sure, at the time, you'll be found on here, defending them to the death.

And, no, they can't prove it-not now. That's because this administration hides from the public everything it does, and won't reveal anything that it has done, from the war to energy policy. Again, when the truth comes out, JetJack, you'll be the first one on here defending everything this administration has done.
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jetjack74
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:27 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 23):
And, again, with that picture of Sen. Obama standing respectfully while the Anthem is being played, shows again how out of touch you are. No one gives a fuck that he doesn't hold his hand over his heart, but you, and a few other right wing zealots, who seemingly demand allegiance only in ways acceptable to you. You compound your pushing one non-issue, with bringing up another. It shows, again, how utterly out of touch with reality you are. I do not hold my hand over my heart when the Anthem is played. I have my either clasped behind me or in front of me, and I sing the anthem. But, again, I'm sure that's not good enough for the patriotism police like yourself.

Ok Barack. It's nice to meet you.
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Falcon84
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:29 am



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 25):
Ok Barack. It's nice to meet you.

Whatever the heck that means.  Yeah sure
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NWA742
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:30 am



Quoting HALFA (Reply 21):

Very nice sources you have there.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
n521na
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:37 am



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 25):

Ok Barack. It's nice to meet you.

Just Barack and not the rest of sane America?
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:40 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
Whatever the heck that means

Many Americans care, those who classify themselves as traditionalists, which incidentally make up a sizable percentage of loyal voters. I have a feeling Hillary Clinton will get the nomination, becuase the Clintons at least know how to effectively play the campaign game

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 27):
Very nice sources you have there.

 checkmark 
Made from jets!
 
n521na
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:43 am



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 29):
Many Americans care

No, actually, they don't.  Yeah sure
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:51 am



Quoting N521NA (Reply 30):
No, actually, they don't

Yes they do
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RJdxer
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:54 am



Quoting HALFA (Reply 1):
Looks like another pathetic attempt by conservatives here on Anet to discredit Senator Obama



Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 11):
I find it typical that you would rally around this pathetic attempt to smear Sen. Obama.



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
Like you would have even known who Deval Patrick was if it weren't for this article and this attempt by the Clinton camp to discredit Obama.

Hey, he got one right. It's not conservatives that brought this to the forfront or have any conservatives rallied around any attempt to smear the good Senator. When the other side is beating the living daylights out of each other, why get in the way?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
Amazing, you two have to have HIllary hand you an "issue". Ever think of that? It isn't an issue, and won't amount to a hill of beans, but it shows how low you guys will go.

Now now, if Senator McCain was to again plagiarize someone, we can count on the liberals on A.net to post a thread inside of 20 minutes of the news breaking.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
davestanKSAN
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:54 am



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 31):

Yes they do

Sources? Stats? Please, enough, yes and no posts without some solid evidence.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
n521na
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:58 am



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 31):
Yes they do

So why is Obama giving Hillary a run for her money in the primary as well as leading McCain in nearly every poll?
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:17 am



Quoting N521NA (Reply 34):
So why is Obama giving Hillary a run for her money in the primary as well as leading McCain in nearly every poll?

We have 9 mos to go until the general election, and this just came to light today. Polls pitting Dem vs GOP at this point are meaningless. McCain was no where in sight 4-5 months ago, now he's the presumtive nominee for the GOP nod. If anyone defies the odds of polls, it's McCain. But in your logic, I guess McCain should just drop out now since Obama is the sure-fire winner. Hey, why have the election? Just give Crown-Prince of plagairism his staff and shield(He'll need it for the debates) and give him his rightful coronation since everyone is so terrified of criticising him.
And as far as the poll data, during the 2004 election, exit polls had Kerry leading Bush by a mile, which turned out to grossly inaccurate. Refresh my memory, who won that election? Hrmmmmmmm?

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 32):
When the other side is beating the living daylights out of each other, why get in the way?

Yeah, I should go back in the stands, crack open a cold one and enjoy the catfight. Will someone please pass me the bloody popcorn?
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kc135topboom
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:25 am



Quoting HALFA (Reply 21):
Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 18):
And you have evidence that they lied? I'd like to see this when you have time.

Since you asked.........


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34930

http://www.bushwatch.com/bushlies.htm

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/07/22_lies.html

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040329/scheer

http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/

http://www.impeachbush.tv/args/iraqlies.html

http://www.alternet.org/story/16274/

I'm sure this is all just liberal spin

HALFA

No, it is not Liberal spin, it is outright liberal fabrication, lies, in other words. BTW, that crap about the NIE is BS. The NIE is an ESTIMATE, that is nothing more than a GUESS.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 22):
If all this is true, then why hasn't the Democrat congress and Senate brought Bush and Cheney in for a hearing? Can you tell me that? I'll tell you why, becuase they know they CAN'T PROVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because the democrates are more interested in HGH drugs in Baseball and other "important" items of interest to Congress.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 24):
Because, unlike the Republicans, they don't see the need to do so, since Bush has 335 days left in office. The truth about these two will come out, and, I'm sure, at the time, you'll be found on here, defending them to the death.

WRONG, the Democrats have NOTHING to pin on President Bush. If the Democrats really cared about the US, then Queen Pelosi would not have run out of town and let the FISA expire (even though there was by-partisian approval within the Senate and House, but the Democratic "Leadership" wouldn't bring it to the floor for a vote). The Queen thought her vacation was more important than protecting the country.

Now, when the Texas Primary begins early voting (later today), I plan to cast my GOP vote for Obama? In Texas, we have an open primary, meaning anyone can vote in any party.

Why will I (a staunch consevrative) vote for Obama? To prevent Bitch Clinton from getting the Texas delagates, thus she might have to drop out of the race (hoping, hoping, hoping) in embarrassment. She will blame Bill for her FAILURE.

Obama can easily be defeated in November by War Hero McCain? Why, Obama says a lot, about everything, except how he is going to pay for his new $1T in new intitilement programs. No, surrendering in Iraq will not save him that much money.

He wants new "green" jobs, but even he doesn't know what that is. Nor does he know if those new "green" jobs are in addition to all of the jobs we have today, or if he is replacing some current jobs (keeping the employment at what it is now). Oh wait, President Bush has the current unemployment level at 4.5%, currently, full employemnt is 5% unemployment, and Bush has better than that.
 
n521na
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:36 am



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 35):
We have 9 mos to go until the general election, and this just came to light today. Polls pitting Dem vs GOP at this point are meaningless. McCain was no where in sight 4-5 months ago, now he's the presumtive nominee for the GOP nod. If anyone defies the odds of polls, it's McCain. But in your logic, I guess McCain should just drop out now since Obama is the sure-fire winner. Hey, why have the election? Just give Crown-Prince of plagairism his staff and shield(He'll need it for the debates) and give him his rightful coronation since everyone is so terrified of criticising him.
And as far as the poll data, during the 2004 election, exit polls had Kerry leading Bush by a mile, which turned out to grossly inaccurate. Refresh my memory, who won that election? Hrmmmmmmm?

I never said Obama is the sure-fire winner. I'm saying that by your logic, if as many Americans cared about Obama not putting his hand on his heart as you say they do, then McCain should be ahead by Obama by a mile. We'll see tomorrow how this plagiarism accusation plays out.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:03 am



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 29):
I have a feeling Hillary Clinton will get the nomination, becuase the Clintons at least know how to effectively play the campaign game

Yeah, they do........  box 

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 35):
We have 9 mos to go until the general election,



Please don't remind me that in a "normal" Presidential election year, we would have just finished in Iowa and New Hampshire. This year, it has already gone on too long.  banghead 

Quoting N521NA (Reply 37):
I never said Obama is the sure-fire winner.

He's not, but at least he isn't a sure-fire looser, like Hillary is.
 cry   crying   cry   crying   cry   crying 

Speaking of "Just words", why didn't Obama quote Arthur Neville Chamberlain's "Peace in our time"?  white 
 
NIKV69
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:25 am



Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 16):
Anyway you can hardly call this video a "shortcoming." There is no smoke screen here. Just a failed attempt to belittle Sen. Obama

What it does show is that this great orator is just business as usual and that his words have not always been his own. Which is not a surprise. He correctly assessed that people like yourself exist that will latch on to anything to rally against a very unpopular Dem opponent (Hillary) and the GOP. So he is digging up every bit of propaganda he can to get people to cheer.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 18):
Me neither. In all of the debates, when he was blindsided by Hillary and Edwards, he stood there with a blank stare looking for things to say. He's been given pass by all the critics since early on, and will no doubt continue. McCain has been totally forthright in his answers about his campaign message, where Obama is filled with rhetoric and talking points. His whole campaign is rests on teleprompters, which makes him sound so appealing. Take the teleprompter away, and replace it index cards, he sounds flustered and confused. This is what will do him in on the debates

Exactly, in fact I heard a great summation of Obama. He basically is winning the popularity contest. In which the voters who don't bother with the issues will vote for him for no other reason than his flash and ability to talk in front of people. Very sad.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
Sad part is, you actually believe such utter nonsense, don't you. You REALLY believe it. It shows, again, just how removed from reality you are, and how far to the right you are. It's so idiotic as to be sad.

What is sad if you have no idea what you are talking about. Far right? I am pro choice and for gay rights. What I am not for is putting a heavy tax burden on everyone especially big business because you want to give the lower class free everything. Get the "I hate the war" blindfold off and see this person for what he is. A far left loon who has no idea what he is doing and who is promising everybody everything with no plan on how he is going to do it.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
Amazing, you two have to have Hillary hand you an "issue". Ever think of that? It isn't an issue, and won't amount to a hill of beans, but it shows how low you guys will go

Hillary didn't hand me anything, I knew from this beginning this guy was a tool and was just feeding you a line of crap because it may you cheer. If anything you should feel slighted because a guy you all thought was talking from the heart is just feeding you old material to get you to get all worked up so you vote for him and of course you bought it.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 20):
He refuse to show his allegiance by placing his hand over his heart when honors are given to the flag, but yet wants to be the President of the United States

Hardly a surprise, he won't wear the lapel pin why put his hand over his heart. Imagine if this country was stupid enough to elect him he probably would want every school to stop the pledge of allegiance. That picture is so telling.

Quoting HALFA (Reply 21):
Since you asked.........


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34930

http://www.bushwatch.com/bushlies.htm

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/07/22_lies.html

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040329/scheer

http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/

http://www.impeachbush.tv/args/iraqlies.html

http://www.alternet.org/story/16274/

I'm sure this is all just liberal spin

LOL, impeachbush? You should have put moveon.org in there and you have them all. Give me a break, why did enough Dems vote for the war then?

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 22):
If all this is true, then why hasn't the Democrat congress and Senate brought Bush and Cheney in for a hearing? Can you tell me that?

The same reason, why Bush won in 00' and they complained it was stolen from Gore, Same reason they said the voting was rigged in 04' The same reason they are going to put their tin foil hats on if Hillary wins the nomination. They can't admit that the war is getting results and also can;t accept some people don't agree with them. It has to be a conspiracy you see, nobody can agree with the Right! They need serious help.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 23):
You have the nerve to accuse me of giving a pass on eithics, after your 8 years of blind support to a president who started a war wtihout real justification; who holds prisoners without charge or counsel; who hides everything he does behind a Iron Curtain of paranoia and secrecy? And you complan about a guy who borrows a few lines from a speech.

Man tin foil hats are lighting up so much now you could light the whole state of Nevada.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 23):
No one gives a fuck that he doesn't hold his hand over his heart, but you, and a few other right wing zealots, who seemingly demand allegiance only in ways acceptable to you

I would be careful, just about everyone here in southern Nevada and all of AZ still does and they still recite the pledge of allegiance with their hands over their hearts. If you want to show disrespect to the flag fine, but don't for a second say it's just a few people because you are totally off base.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 36):
The Queen thought her vacation was more important than protecting the country.

She doesn't have to worry about that, Obama is going to call a meeting with all the Middle east leaders and talk about it and all will be well!  sarcastic  Bin Laden will be the guest of honor.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
davestanKSAN
Posts: 1532
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:46 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 39):
What it does show is that this great orator is just business as usual and that his words have not always been his own. Which is not a surprise. He correctly assessed that people like yourself exist that will latch on to anything to rally against a very unpopular Dem opponent (Hillary) and the GOP. So he is digging up every bit of propaganda he can to get people to cheer.

 redflag  Wrong, yet again. What this thread does show is how those who oppose Sen. Obama will rally around anything they can to try and smear Sen. Obama. It's a nonsensical issue. Part of Sen. Obama's speech sounded somewhat like Mr. Patrick's speech. It's not plagiarism, and anyone who is calling it that hopefully stretched before making such a foolish statement, because it sure is a long reach.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 39):
Exactly, in fact I heard a great summation of Obama. He basically is winning the popularity contest. In which the voters who don't bother with the issues will vote for him for no other reason than his flash and ability to talk in front of people. Very sad.

Right. You speak of tin foil hats, yet you need to apply it to your line of thinking.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 39):
A far left loon who has no idea what he is doing and who is promising everybody everything with no plan on how he is going to do it.

 rotfl  Again, I think you need to adjust your hatred. No plan you say? I say you need to study his stances on issues more. You're putting your bias before your cognisant thought process.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 39):
Hardly a surprise, he won't wear the lapel pin why put his hand over his heart. Imagine if this country was stupid enough to elect him he probably would want every school to stop the pledge of allegiance. That picture is so telling.

 rotfl  Yes Nick that's his plan. You're so far from reality here, it's not even funny. Well, it kind of is.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 39):
Obama is going to call a meeting with all the Middle east leaders and talk about it and all will be well! Bin Laden will be the guest of honor.

Source please. Show me where Sen. Obama said he wants to meet with Bin Laden. Thanks.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
RJdxer
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:28 pm



Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 40):
Sen. Obama will rally around anything they can to try and smear Sen. Obama.

So pointing out what has been pointed out about other candidates in the past, Sens. Bidden and McCain come to mind, is now a smear tactic? Are you saying that when an opponent blatantly takes words from another, and the other has not said he said it was ok, and that person does not attribute the words correctly, that it shouldn't be pointed out that the words are not his/her own? How about if he starts using parts of speeches from FDR or Churchill without attributing them?

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 40):
It's not plagiarism, and anyone who is calling it that hopefully stretched before making such a foolish statement, because it sure is a long reach.

Then you need to talk to the other democratic primary candidate because they are the ones who brought the story to life. Everyone else thought he was just spouting more pie in the sky stuff.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
Falcon84
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:35 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 39):
I would be careful, just about everyone here in southern Nevada and all of AZ still does and they still recite the pledge of allegiance with their hands over their hearts. If you want to show disrespect to the flag fine, but don't for a second say it's just a few people because you are totally off base.

If they do it that way, fine. But don't you dare tell me, or anyone in Neveda or AZ tell me for a second that I'm somehow "unpatriotic" because I don't do it you're way. And neither is Sen. Obama. There is no prescribed "way" to show allegiance to the Flag. As far as I'm concerned, if you stand at attention, facing the flag, you are doing it the right way. If you have your hand over your heart, you're doing it the right way. If you just stand quietly, at attention, it's the right way. We don't need Patriot Nazi's telling people what's the right and wrong way.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:50 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 42):
We don't need Patriot Nazi's telling people what's the right and wrong way.

You tellem Falcon!!!!




photo by Sean Rayford

We wouldn't want any kind of standards now would we?  faint 
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
santosdumont
Posts: 1157
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:57 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 43):
You tellem Falcon!!!!

Juxtaposing those two pictures is sophomoric at best.
"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:00 pm



Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 44):
Juxtaposing those two pictures is sophomoric at best.

It shows the extreme examples of Falcons view of the flag and how it ought to be respected.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
IH8BY
Posts: 758
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:39 pm

RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:42 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 39):
A far left loon

Being an outsider, I don't quite understand how you view left and right in the US, so I wondered if you could summarize for me what makes Obama "far left". Suggesting this in the UK would be viewed as quite an accusation, and that's coming from a country which appears to be generally quite left wing in comparison to US politics (though I may be wrong). Is this a relative thing? Thanks.
Have you ever felt like you could float into the sky / like the laws of physics simply don't apply?
 
santosdumont
Posts: 1157
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:25 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 42):
If you want to show disrespect to the flag fine, but don't for a second say it's just a few people because you are totally off base.

On a related matter, I was struck by the number of men who paid respects to Ronald Reagan a few years back in the US Capitol who showed up in shorts and did not bother to take off their caps when inside the Rotunda, where the former president was lying in state in a flag-draped casket. Granted it was pretty hot in DC during those days, but does that justify the wearing of clothing that some (I daresay many) people would consider inappropriate at the lying in state of a former president? Dunno.

Now, one shouldn't confuse a lack of decorum (the case of the aforementioned mourners and possibly the case of Obama not putting his hand over his heart) with a lack of patriotism.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 39):
Obama is going to call a meeting with all the Middle east leaders and talk about it and all will be well! Bin Laden will be the guest of honor.

I can't believe people still take this route; had GWB done his fucking job, there would be no UBL to worry about. Wouldn't it be a bitch if a President Obama were to actually take down UBL? I can hear the right-wing cringing ..."damn, why did it have to be a Democrat...and a Black dude (not the word they'd be using) on top of that?"

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 45):
Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 44):
Juxtaposing those two pictures is sophomoric at best.

It shows the extreme examples of Falcons view of the flag and how it ought to be respected.

Your position presupposes that both pictures capture situations from a same continuum. They don't.
"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
 
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jetjack74
Posts: 6585
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:52 pm



Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 47):
I can't believe people still take this route; had GWB done his fucking job, there would be no UBL to worry about.

I can't believe that people such as yourself can't grasp the fact Bin Laden was offered on a silver plate back in 1997, but Clinton passed on it becuase it was hot potato and didn't want to be bothered.

Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 47):
Wouldn't it be a bitch if a President Obama were to actually take down UBL?

Never happen. He'd be too busy conducting a peace séance at Camp Obama(FKA Camp David) with theorocrats and terrorists like Ahmadinejad, Al Zawahiri and others since he seems so eager to find common ground with them.
Made from jets!
 
santosdumont
Posts: 1157
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RE: Just Words....................?

Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:13 pm



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 48):
Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 47):
I can't believe people still take this route; had GWB done his fucking job, there would be no UBL to worry about.

I can't believe that people such as yourself can't grasp the fact Bin Laden was offered on a silver plate back in 1997, but Clinton passed on it becuase it was hot potato and didn't want to be bothered.

Did I even remotely suggest that Clinton deserved a pass on that?

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 48):
Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 47):
Wouldn't it be a bitch if a President Obama were to actually take down UBL?

Never happen.

Stranger things have happened.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 48):
He'd be too busy conducting a peace séance at Camp Obama(FKA Camp David) with theorocrats and terrorists like Ahmadinejad, Al Zawahiri and others since he seems so eager to find common ground with them

Of course, in the here and now and on the real, the current administration coddles terrorist nation-states like Saudi Arabia who surreptitiously funnel US funds to Wahabbi schools that are de facto terrorist training academies.

It's unwise to try to characterize appeasement of terrorists as a strictly "liberal" phenomenon. Reagan and Bush 41 did many a terrorist proud.
"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica

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