ScarletHarlot
Topic Author
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Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:24 pm

This is about three miles from my house - out in the boonies NE of Seattle. The same group set another couple of houses under construction on fire out here several years ago but nothing like this. This is massive.

http://www.komotv.com/news/16178002.html

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor...reet_dreams_fires_LJ.1a79d3a7.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23447353

The houses were all about 4200-4700sf and were fully furnished as model homes with high-end furnishings, appliances and decor. Fortunately nobody was living in them. They were Street of Dreams homes - they are open to the public for a fee for several weeks and they are furnished and decorated with the latest high-end trends. Past Streets of Dreams have been very ostentatious and this year's was a bit of an exception. The houses were a bit smaller and were definitely more green.

It is ironic that the ELF would choose this development to burn, when it is one that is moving in the right direction. It's not fully there, of course, but it does display a trend toward more environmental awareness. It is also ironic that by buring down these houses, the group caused pollutants to be released into the atmosphere and surrounding forest, part of the forest was burned, and resources were wasted. How is that environmentall friendly?

I have some understanding of why the group would do this - there are always groups that feel that their message is necessary and it is not being heard, so desperate measures have to be taken to make people hear. But not like this. Violence, vandalism, and arson are never the answer.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
Falcon84
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:39 pm

There are eco-terrorists out there, and this is a terrible example of extremism from the left. This is a free country. People do have the right to drive what they want, build what they want, and they should do so free from fear that just because they don't see eye to eye with ecoextremists, that they'll lose their property.

They can make their point without destroying property of others. In this case, I'm going to end up on the same side as L-188, with no equivocation, but so be it. These people are lunatics.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
northstardc4m
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:48 pm

Times like this i despair for the human race...

Ok so, "green" model homes are burned down by a so called "environmental" group because they aren't green?

ERROR!
does not compute
does not compute
....
(smell of melted electronics)

Seriously, these people need a new hobby.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
jcs17
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:57 pm

I propose that when these losers are caught, they are promptly set on fire. The problem is that for some reason, finding these people is like hunting down Osama. These eco-terrorists, rarely, if ever, get caught. These terrorists blend in so well in a state like Washington though -- flannel-clad, gender-neutral, and vegetarian  Wink .

[Edited 2008-03-03 10:04:43]
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:14 pm

It's probably more to do with the fact that these eco terrorists probably live in a van and could never afford a house like that in their lifetime.
 
RacingGreen07
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:20 pm

Eco and Terrorist in the same phrase? Now that is sure hard to believe....

When they find out how much carbon dioxide the house released when it was lit then they'll regret it...
A dream worth having is a dream worth pursuing- August Horch- Founder of Audi AG
 
AC320
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:26 pm



Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 2):
Ok so, "green" model homes are burned down by a so called "environmental" group because they aren't green?

I doubt they even realize rebuilding the homes will end with the consumption of even more resources and materials. Nevermind all the trees killed by the paperwork generated by the insurance companies and criminal investigations. Talk about cutting off the nose to spite the face.

Morons.
fuddle duddle
 
metroliner
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:29 pm



Quoting RacingGreen07 (Reply 5):
Eco and Terrorist in the same phrase? Now that is sure hard to believe....

What... have you not heard of Greenpeace?

 duck 
Set the controls for the heart of the Sun
 
Newark777
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:44 pm



Quoting AC320 (Reply 6):
I doubt they even realize rebuilding the homes will end with the consumption of even more resources and materials.

That's the problem, if they had the ability to think, they wouldn't be environmental wackos in the first place.
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
prosa
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:02 pm

Given the way the real estate market's been going, the developer might be better off with the houses gone.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
andessmf
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:07 pm



Quoting PROSA (Reply 9):
Given the way the real estate market's been going, the developer might be better off with the houses gone.

Indeed, I would not be surprised to find out later that ELF had nothing to do with this. We have already had plenty of arson fires around California directly related to people trying to get rid of their money losing investments.

(This is in no way meaning to support ELF)
 
ScarletHarlot
Topic Author
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:21 pm



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 10):
I would not be surprised to find out later that ELF had nothing to do with this. We have already had plenty of arson fires around California directly related to people trying to get rid of their money losing investments.

It is a possibility. The burned houses have been sitting unsold since last summer. In prior years, they would often sell before the event was over. So far though the spotlight is on ELF.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
Superfly
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:29 pm

The actions of these low-life scumbags is not very Zen either.
Perhaps they need to read up on that.
It is violence, period and they should be locked up for their actions.
Bring back the Concorde
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:08 pm



Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 2):
Ok so, "green" model homes are burned down by a so called "environmental" group because they aren't green?

Would they burn Gore's house? It's pretty big Wink.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
andessmf
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:19 pm



Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 11):
The burned houses have been sitting unsold since last summer. In prior years, they would often sell before the event was over. So far though the spotlight is on ELF.

Holding costs for these large homes can run about $10K/month, w/o counting maintenance costs. Personally I did a little study here in the Sacramento market, and was shocked (to say the least) that about 80% of the very large homes here were built in the last 5 years. And these were 'speculative' homes, or homes that were built w/o a buyer available.

There are just not that many people in the world to absorb this quantity of mansions available.

I think ELF is a  redflag 
 
ScarletHarlot
Topic Author
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:35 pm



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 14):
I think ELF is a  redflag 

Well, consider that these are showcase homes, and were built by multiple builders. I can't see five builders going through with such a plan - especially when these houses have won awards. I would think that if it was a builder they would torch a development that was less in the spotlight so they would be more likely to get away with it. In contrast, this is exactly the sort of development that would get high publicity for ELF. So to me, it seems most likely that it is ELF. But I cannot disregard your idea.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
ZBBYLW
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:35 pm

These eco-terrorists need to stop. When I am in YVR I live in a very large house (by some standards) BUT because it was recently built we had the option of getting high end/engergy saving technology. It costs about the same to run out house as it did when we lived in a place that was around 1,500 square feet smaller. That house is around 10 years old now. The difference in technology over the last few years has been dramatic. These idiotic eco-terrorists should concentrate on things that actually affect this world, rather then petty little things.
Keep the shinny side up!
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:46 pm

Some years ago I passed our neighbouring village on the way back home from work. I noticed a huge smoke cloud and decided to investigate. Down a few streets I found a barn full of hay on fire, with the local voluntary fire brigade just spraying the neighbouring houses to prevent the fire from expanding, else they were standing there, eating sausages and drinking beer brought to them by some wives.
They were definitely not happy to see a stranger there, also the owner of the farm looked not really worried.
I assume (but have no proof) that the fire was laid on purpose for an insurance scam.
Anyway, having seen the dirty looks I received when I went there, I made myself scarce.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
ScarletHarlot
Topic Author
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:55 pm

Here are some pictures.





And this is good for the environment how? Look at all that firefighting foam - and that's only the most obvious pollutant!
But that was when I ruled the world
 
andessmf
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:04 pm

So....

The only house that was sale pending had the explosive device 'malfunction'...

hmm... scratchchin 

"Hoffman said fire officials told him a fourth house was spared because an arson device inside it didn't go off. That house, Seattle Home Design's La Belle Fleur, recently went pending with a buyer, and would have been the first of the five to sell, he said"

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/353498_arson04.html
 
lobster
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:06 pm



Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 18):
Look at all that firefighting foam - and that's only the most obvious pollutant!

Actually, AFFF (aqueous fire fighting foam) is non-hazardous, bio-degradable.


I think it's funny that they burn down five houses as a way of a "protest", yet the chemical reactions from the fire and the materials used surely did more damage to the environment then having the house there to be lived in.

Terrorists, pure and simple.
 
ScarletHarlot
Topic Author
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:21 pm



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 19):
The only house that was sale pending had the explosive device 'malfunction'...

Well, that is interesting! But I will wait and see. (I know you will too but it's interesting to speculate.)

Quoting Lobster (Reply 20):
Terrorists, pure and simple.

Don't forget dumbasses.

Quoting Lobster (Reply 20):
AFFF (aqueous fire fighting foam) is non-hazardous, bio-degradable.

Thanks, that is good to know.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
ltbewr
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:41 am

Instead of burning down these houses, perhaps they should have broken in and lived in them. Still illegal, but get the point across about the crises in affordable housing. I do hope, but have doubts, that these terrorists - that's what they are - get long jail sentences in a Federal jail.
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:44 am

Not to defend any particular group here, but most everyone here, except, apparently AndesSMF, has assumed that eco-terrorists are involved. How difficult would it be for disgruntled investors, losing $$$ hand over fist, to plant markers at the scene. Why was the next to sell spared? Perhaps some additional factual information is in order before we cast guilt? Hell no; this is just an internet forum.

All I'm saying is, apparently, people love to trust the media when it's convenient, and rail on it when it is not. Very well done.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
Newark777
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattl

Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:57 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 23):
Not to defend any particular group here, but most everyone here, except, apparently AndesSMF, has assumed that eco-terrorists are involved.

When the buildings are branded with the ELF initials and the law enforcement agencies believe it is them, it's good enough for me, especially considering their past behavior. Sure, it may come out that it wasn't them, but it's not like the people here were the ones that came to the ELF conclusion. And it was not just the media, but law enforcement and others involved who came to the ELF conclusion.

[Edited 2008-03-03 17:00:54]
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:22 am



Quoting Newark777 (Reply 24):
When the buildings are branded with the ELF initials and the law enforcement agencies believe it is them, it's good enough for me, especially considering their past behavior. Sure, it may come out that it wasn't them, but it's not like the people here were the ones that came to the ELF conclusion. And it was not just the media, but law enforcement and others involved who came to the ELF conclusion.

Let's face it, "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck," is not typically bad advice. But I don't see that language in the same paragraph as "Innocent until proven guilty." Does it seem possible, even likely that ELF did this? Sure. Of course. My only point is that I haven't drawn any conclusions on a few news reports that basically recycle the information found in the others.

As for your statement that
From the second link in the original post:

'Kevin Crenshaw of the FBI said the only thing this incident has in common with other acts of eco-terror is the banner.

"But we don't even know the authenticity of that banner yet," he said.'

From the third link in the original post:

'Crews removed incendiary devices found in the homes, Snohomish County District 7 Fire Chief Rick Eastman said. Later, however, Kelvin Crenshaw, special agent in charge of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in Seattle, said there was no evidence such devices had been used.'

Lastly, from the first link in the original post (and this recycles some of what I posted from the other links):

'Crews removed incendiary devices found in the homes, Snohomish County District 7 Fire Chief Rick Eastman said. Later, however, Kelvin Crenshaw, special agent in charge of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in Seattle, said there was no evidence such devices had been used.

The FBI was investigating the fires as a potential domestic terrorism act, said FBI spokesman Rich Kolko in Washington, D.C.

...

"We're certain that these homes are arson," Eastman said.'


My words again,

"a potential domestic terrorism act" "We're certain that these homes are arson"

Potential = maybe, maybe not. Arson can be peformed by terrorists or disgruntled investors, or tennagers looking for a thrill. Apparently, no one, niether the media nor law enforcement (local or FBI) have stated anywhere that they have concluded that ELF had anything to do with this. They simply reported initial findings. As they should.

What we ought to do is wait until facts come out. Dare I say that no one here is in favor of eco-terrorism, but I think we all subscribe to "Innocent until PROVEN guilty." No???
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
Newark777
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:26 am



Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 25):

What we ought to do is wait until facts come out. Dare I say that no one here is in favor of eco-terrorism, but I think we all subscribe to "Innocent until PROVEN guilty." No???

I agree with you completely that they are innocent until proven guilty, but it is unfair to hold an internet forum up to the same standards as a court of law. After all, speculation is what we do best here.  Wink
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:47 am



Quoting Newark777 (Reply 26):
but it is unfair to hold an internet forum up to the same standards as a court of law. After all, speculation is what we do best here.

Well, I hold any discussion up to the same standard I use at any social gathering: Do I have anything in common with this person? Do I really want to have this discussion?

Hell, everyone has the right to their own opinion, but any conversation had better be grounded in some semblance of reality, or I'm going into the kitchen to get another beer and talk about tits, or somethin'.  Wink
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
Newark777
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:51 am



Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 27):
I'm going into the kitchen to get another beer and talk about tits, or somethin'.

Sounds like a plan to me.  Wink
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
767Lover
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:19 am

Well, has the ELF denied responsibility?
 
aerobalance
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:31 am



Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 27):
Hell, everyone has the right to their own opinion, but any conversation had better be grounded in some semblance of reality, or I'm going into the kitchen to get another beer and talk about tits, or somethin'.

Nothing wrong with that!

I thought ELF calmed down after an arrest of one of their head guys down here a few years ago (burned some Hummers and such). Did he have followers?
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
L-188
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:42 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1):
I'm going to end up on the same side as L-188, with no equivocation,

Get out of the heat...come over to the dark side.....

Quoting RacingGreen07 (Reply 5):
When they find out how much carbon dioxide the house released when it was lit then they'll regret it...

Screw the CO2, think of all the plastics in the carpet and varnishes that are burning up.

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 18):
Look at all that firefighting foam - and that's only the most obvious pollutant!



Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 21):
Quoting Lobster (Reply 20):
AFFF (aqueous fire fighting foam) is non-hazardous, bio-degradable.

Thanks, that is good to know.

Do they still make it out of Ox blood?

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 25):
"But we don't even know the authenticity of that banner yet," he said.'

Absolutely correct, in this way ELF is even more mysterious then Al-Quida. They have no formal membership and anybody can claim to be them.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
lobster
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:58 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 31):
Do they still make it out of Ox blood?

Hell, when I was in fire school ten years ago they told us it was made from chicken guts. I do remember the old stuff they had really was nasty though. But it all depends on what type it is.


Class B, protein category foams are still made from animal products. Not sure exactly what goes in it though.
 
L-188
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:00 am



Quoting Lobster (Reply 32):
Class B, protein category foams are still made from animal products. Not sure exactly what goes in it though.

I remember as a kid, my next door neighbor hosing down his yard with an expired lot of the stuff, great lawn fertilizer apparently.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Newark777
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:02 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 33):

I remember as a kid, my next door neighbor hosing down his yard with an expired lot of the stuff, great lawn fertilizer apparently.

So not only does it not harm the environment, it helps it.  Smile
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
Analog
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:23 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1):
There are eco-terrorists out there, and this is a terrible example of extremism from the left.

So what's right wing extremism? Al-Qaeda?
 
prosa
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:07 pm

I doubt that the builders were responsible, but it's quite reasonable to guess that they are not entirely displeased with the results.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
seb146
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:32 pm



Quoting Analog (Reply 35):

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1):
There are eco-terrorists out there, and this is a terrible example of extremism from the left.

So what's right wing extremism? Al-Qaeda?

I was wondering the same thing. What is "right wing extremeism?"

Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 30):
I thought ELF calmed down after an arrest of one of their head guys down here a few years ago (burned some Hummers and such). Did he have followers?

I heard on several reports there were bed sheets spray painted (imagine the CFCs involved!) with "ELF" and ELF slogans. So, they believe it was ELF. I don't remember if he is a part of ELF, but Tre Arrow, an accused eco-terrorist, was extradited to the United States in the past two weeks. He is accused of setting fire to cement trucks in South Portland. Like that is environmentally friendly? Also, the company that owns the trucks, Ross Island Sand and Gravel, is cleaning up it's mess on Ross Island and making the island more environmentally friendly.

These ELF types make my head hurt.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
CJAContinental
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:37 pm

So, eco terrorists have burned down some houses that looked to have required a lot of financial investment and time to build.

Did they consider the fact that clearing up the mess they made will now waste even more time, money, and cause more emmisions, as well as the fact that the house builder may just rebuild them, or others to compensate in a different location?

Surely this act was less environmentally friendly?

Idiots.

[Edited 2008-03-04 11:38:21]
Work Hard/Fly Right.
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Eco-terrorists Burn 5 Dream Houses Near Seattle

Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:41 am



Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 38):
So, eco terrorists have burned down some houses

In case you missed my entire point, eco terrorists are SUSPECTS in these fires (and reasonable suspects they are). When did you become judge and jury?

It's incredibly difficult to imagine an intelligent post on an internet forum (particularly this one) these days.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan

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