CF188A
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"you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:31 pm

....................If you were in George Bushes shoes ? Be honest , and upfront . I have heard many say

a) Nuke all known Al Quaeda and Taliban strongholds regardless of civilian casualties and the countries in which they reside

b) starve the surrounding countries economically

c)Use the 9/11 as a weapon and rather gain so many allies given the sympathies felt that day ..?

Add some if you would like . What would you have done everything after that day was YOUR CALL!

[Edited 2008-03-07 11:32:30]
Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow~ RIP ... LJFM
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:36 pm

None of your options .

I agree with Bush on the Afghanistan War , there was no other Option . Invade Afghanistan but trying to avoid civil causalities .

IMO it was a bit slow the reaction in that days ... they needed 1 Month to invade it .


Constantin
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fumanchewd
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:43 pm

Listen to my advisors and the CIA for advice and information.

Oops. I suppose that right afterwards I would not have done anything different.

Beyond that, its difficult to say because no one here knows what he was told and in what manner he was told.

I would like to believe that my speeches would have been more eloquant and I would have definitely not gone into that "if you are not with us" crap. I would have asked France to contribute to our coalition by cooking for our troops.  Wink I would have liked to have landed on the aircraft carrier but I would have asked to do it again instead of declaring the war over.

This thread will go up QUICKLY. I don't believe that anyone with any tidbit of intelligence can specifically state that they know what they would have done. Perhaps generally.

In that regards, I would have tried to listen to my advisors and allies and do what I think was in the best interest of my citizens while trying to maintain positive relations with a majority of the international community.
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CF188A
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:45 pm



Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 2):
This thread will go up QUICKLY. I don't believe that anyone with any tidbit of intelligence can specifically state that they know what they would have done. Perhaps generally.

Then i would highly suggest you keep it civil ... as for all else, and respect other peoples opinions . Or simply don't post. But your points are valid none the less
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Jetsgo
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:49 pm

Plan out a better Afghanistan War. Send in at least 500,000 troops, ships, planes, whatever needed. Completely eliminate Al Quaeda. Authorize military to use whatever force necessary to complete the war in less then two years.

Never invade Iraq. There just weren't any ties. Use forces for Afghanistan and possibly Iran/North Korea.

Cut off all ties with any terrorist supporting country.

Stop dicking around and send Iran a few missiles since we know they are actively supporting attacks against US and Israel.

Drop the whole "either you're with us or you're against us." I bet Europe would've been quite willing to assist if the war remained in a justified Afghanistan.

Never create the TSA, or if I did, make sure it actually consists of competent people capable of stopping terrorists.

Just a few for now...
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RacingGreen07
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:51 pm



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 1):
IMO it was a bit slow the reaction in that days ... they needed 1 Month to invade it .

Well lol, you can't have the US to have ready battle plans for Afghanistan ready and waiting. It probably took a month to draw up the battle plans and plans of attack.

Moving an army and its equipment is a labour and time intensive task. I think 1 month is pretty quick.......
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:53 pm



Quoting RacingGreen07 (Reply 5):
Moving an army and its equipment is a labour and time intensive task. I think 1 month is pretty quick.......

But it was enough time for Bin Laden to take his 50 Wifes and his millions $ to Pakistan comfortably .
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a380us
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:57 pm

I too think it was handled correctly and there was no way of knowing all that we know now
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Jetsgo
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:58 pm



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 6):
But it was enough time for Bin Laden to take his 50 Wifes and his millions $ to Pakistan comfortably .

So if we're so slow, why didn't Germany, being several thousand miles closer, and an ally, get into the sandbox quicker?
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Pope
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:59 pm

I would have called in the director of the FBI, CIA, NSA and fired them. I would have called for the Chairman and ranking minority member of the House and Senate committees with oversight authority of these agencies to resign.

I would called the ambassadors of the hostile Middle Eastern nations to the White House and said that we expected their full cooperation and that if they didn't it they should expect some very strong military response.

I would have ordered the cruise missile strikes on known terrorist training camps around the world of any major concern.

I would have ordered the attack on Afghanistan but begun it with immediate special forces raids into the areas of biggest concern.
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csavel
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To

Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:03 pm

1) Invade Afghanistan

2) Invade with enough troops and money to really change things there

3) Hold off on holding elections until democratic institutions and infrastructure could be built

4) Help to fund that

5) Impress on the Saudis that they must help to fund that

6) Engage the Iranians in Afghanistan and begin a rapproachment, at the same time reminding them that it could be them next - worked with Libya

7) Suspend and roll back tax cuts, might hurt the economy in the short term but we must pay for the war, better than running up debt.

8) Truly independent investigation into why 9/11 happened including
a) why the FBI and CIA couldn't get together
b) did we heed warnings from the French, Germans, Israelis
c) Condi war crimes trials?

9) Re-assess our "friendship" with the Saudis, make it official policy to wean ourselves off of Middle East oil, and to crush the Saudi Arabian economy by causing a precipitous fall in the price of oil.

10) mandate CAFE standards for cars, heavily tax Al-Qaedamobiles (SUVs) and use the money for mass transit, alternative fuels, and nuclear, nuclear, nuclear

11) If 10 succeeds, Get out of Saudi Arabia, but also make it clear to them that if they get overthrown we won't defend them because WE DON'T NEED THEM ANYMORE. Also make clear that in the event of a catastrophic attack on the US, as the holder of the two Islamic holy places, we hold them responsible for ALL Islamic attacks on the US, and will respond one-hundred fold. Mecca and Medina are not off limits but would be a last resort.

12) Don't start a big huge bureacuracy like the TSA, work with what you got

13) make security more of a priority for the cleaners, rampers etc. I am still not convinced that the hijackers smuggled boxcutters on. If I were a terrorist, I'd go up to someone making minimum wage cleaning the planes and say, for 50,000 just put this on the plane, we won't hurt anyone really." That person sure as hell isn't going to come forward now. Patrick Smith is right. That hole is a mile wide.

14) Invade part of Pakistan if they are not helping us to capture Osama.

15) Generally, *as long as it doesn't affect us* keep our of Middle East conflicts.

16) Don't close off the rest of the world with onerous visa regs, but do tighten security

17) Propose a Schengen like system with Canada should they agree to tighten their standards

18) Promise NEVER to cynically use 9/11 for political purposes and to NEVER use 9/11 imagery in a political ad. Shame the other party until they promise same

19) Oh yeah, don't invade Iraq, WTF? They had nothing to do with it.

20) Of course if the Iraqis want to oust Saddam, he wasn't Santa Claus, so help them/
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:04 pm



Quoting Pope (Reply 9):
I would have called in the director of the FBI, CIA, NSA and fired them. I would have called for the Chairman and ranking minority member of the House and Senate committees with oversight authority of these agencies to resign.

I would called the ambassadors of the hostile Middle Eastern nations to the White House and said that we expected their full cooperation and that if they didn't it they should expect some very strong military response.

I would have ordered the cruise missile strikes on known terrorist training camps around the world of any major concern.

I would have ordered the attack on Afghanistan but begun it with immediate special forces raids into the areas of biggest concern.

Agree with you completely .  checkmark   checkmark 
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:05 pm



Quoting Csavel (Reply 10):
19) Oh yeah, don't invade Iraq, WTF? They had nothing to do with it.

 checkmark   checkmark  Yea this was catastrophic ... things just got worse
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Pope
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:13 pm



Quoting Csavel (Reply 10):
4) Help to fund that



Quoting Csavel (Reply 10):
10) mandate CAFE standards for cars, heavily tax Al-Qaedamobiles (SUVs) and use the money for mass transit, alternative fuels, and nuclear, nuclear, nuclear

Last time I checked, #4 and #10 requires acts of Congress.

Quoting Csavel (Reply 10):
7) Suspend and roll back tax cuts, might hurt the economy in the short term but we must pay for the war, better than running up debt.

The tax cuts weren't implemented until after 9/11 so there was nothing to suspend or roll-back.
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Confuscius
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:26 pm



Quoting Pope (Reply 9):
I would have called in the director of the FBI, CIA, NSA and fired them. I would have called for the Chairman and ranking minority member of the House and Senate committees with oversight authority of these agencies to resign.

What are you, a bleeding-heart liberal?

I'd dissolve Congress and rule by decree. Execute the leaders of the opposition party on the spot and imprison the remaining in labor camps. In a few weeks I'd rule the world. There, that's the end of terrorism.
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Emirates773ER
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:30 pm



Quoting Csavel (Reply 10):
If 10 succeeds, Get out of Saudi Arabia, but also make it clear to them that if they get overthrown we won't defend them because WE DON'T NEED THEM ANYMORE. Also make clear that in the event of a catastrophic attack on the US, as the holder of the two Islamic holy places, we hold them responsible for ALL Islamic attacks on the US, and will respond one-hundred fold. Mecca and Medina are not off limits but would be a last resort.

Statements like these are proof that politics should be out of reach from the common man. Your suggestion would make World War 2 look like a fruit cake.
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Newark777
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:36 pm

This is a silly topic. It is all too easy to look back seven years with 20/20 hindsight and lecture on what the proper course of action would be. I'd like to see what you would actually do if you were in GWB's shoes on 9/12/01, as opposed to the grand proclamations made here.
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CF188A
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:45 pm



Quoting Newark777 (Reply 16):
This is a silly topic. It is all too easy to look back seven years with 20/20 hindsight and lecture on what the proper course of action would be. I'd like to see what you would actually do if you were in GWB's shoes on 9/12/01, as opposed to the grand proclamations made here.

Well for one, I sure as hell would not invade one of the most infra-structured countries in the Middle East. What a wonderful Idea that was Smile In all fairness, the Terrorist scum have won, they have terrorized the west, not to mention given them more reasons to carry on a psychotic holy war for another century .
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fr8mech
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:56 pm

Ahh, Monday morning quarterbacking. Hindsight 20/20 and all...

Let's make the assumption that on 9/12/2001 we knew it was OBL and gang.

Pound hell out of ALL Taliban strongholds/locations/sympathizers.

Let the world know that the failed policies of the previous 25 or so years in dealing with terrorists had officially come to an end.

Put Iran/Syria/Iraq/Saudia Arabia, et al. on notice, specifically and by name of the above.

If there was no capitulation, start hitting very specific economic and military targets inside the Nation-States identified.

Seize production fields, distribution fields and docks, as applicable in the non-compliant nations (not the easiest task, but doable, I think). I have no problem, what-so-ever, with blood for oil, not one problem. It is fiction to assume that we would not and have not gone to war to maintain or secure an adequate oil supply. Or any other nation would not do the same. To ignore an oil supply disruption is to die on the vine.

Nuclear weapons, while not off-the-table, would be largely counter productive.

Communicate to the American people and the world why this is happening.

Let's be clear. We have been at war with these lunatics since the 70's, some would argue before that. 9/11 was the wake-up call that they really meant business. They were throwing a war, but we weren't playing. Carter ignored it. Reagan could have done so much more...after Libya he had the momentum. Bush I disappointed me. Taking Bagdhad would have presented the same Iraq situation we have now, but Iran would have been easier to deal with and world opinion (as much as that matters) was on our side. Bush I was short-sighted. Clinton did NOTHING against the terrorists, but allow them grow unimpeded. Bush II failed to communicate what our government was doing and thus, failed to get the bulk of Americans behind him in the long run.

We are not prosecuting a war because of 9/11, that was just the catalyst that got us off our collective behinds.

Domestically, we needed to open oil exploration...only the short sided morons in Congress didn't see this oil supply issue (the issue being that a sizable chunk of our oil comes form that region). Refineries needed to be built. Nuclear plants needed to be authorized, built and brought on line. Alternative energy means needed to be explored. All major rivers needed to be re-evaluated for dam potential. We probably wouldn't have built anymore, all the good sites are probably long gone, but the evaluation needed to be done.

The Dollar had to be vigorously defended. The economy should have been more closely watched.

Communication to the people...very important.

Maybe a bit idealistic, but my 2 cents, nonetheless.

[Edited 2008-03-07 14:04:48]
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fumanchewd
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:59 pm



Quoting CF188A (Reply 17):
the Terrorist scum have won, they have terrorized the west, not to mention given them more reasons to carry on a psychotic holy war for another century .

What have they won? I am not in terror.

What will happen over the next century?

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allstarflyer
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:05 pm

Among things I would throw out, one would definitely be to take the golden opportunity to seize control of our own borders.
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Newark777
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:07 pm



Quoting CF188A (Reply 17):
In all fairness, the Terrorist scum have won, they have terrorized the west,

I live my day to day life pretty much the same as before 9/11. Just because some people are obsessed and paranoid does not mean the terrorists have won.  Wink
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fr8mech
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:15 pm



Quoting CF188A (Reply 17):
Well for one, I sure as hell would not invade one of the most infra-structured countries in the Middle East. What a wonderful Idea that was In all fairness, the Terrorist scum have won, they have terrorized the west, not to mention given them more reasons to carry on a psychotic holy war for another century

What you fail to understand was that the lunatics were going to continue this war into the next century anyway. We, the United States, have been fighting Islamic terrorists since right after our Independence. Every hear of the Barbary pirates? This war will continue until we eliminate the threat AND get moderate Muslims to suppress and prosecute the radical elements of Islam or we capitulate and let them dictate terms. Which do you prefer?

I'd rather crush them.

Invading Iraq was not a reaction to 9/11. It was the continuation of the war started long ago, that we finally joined.

The terrorists have not won, but neither have we.
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Delta767300ER
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:17 pm

1. Launch cruise missiles the day after the attacks on terrorist training facilities in Afghanistan.
2. Move Special Forces into Afghanistan before an invasion.
3. Launch a coordinated Int'l invasion of Afghanistan with 500,000+ troops.
4. Seal off the Afghan/Pakistan border.
5. Start holding talks with Iran to stabilize Afghanistan as they are sworn enemies with the Taliban and Al-Qaeda.
6. If talks with Iran went well, I would resume diplomatic relations with them and start sending them aid for oil.
7. Re-assess our so called "friendship" with Saudi Arabia.
8. Support domestic renewable energy programs such as Ethanol so we dont have to do business with the Terrorist Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
9. Drop the "You are either with us or against us".
10. Strengthen our friendship with Jordan, Egypt, UAE, Kuwait, and other allied Arab nations.
11. Never invade Iraq.
12. Never create TSA.
13. Imprison that pussy Madeleine Albright. (I know thats unrealistic)
14. Promote dialogue between other faiths and Islam.

Thats all I can think of now.

-Delta767300ER
 
slider
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:19 pm



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 4):
Cut off all ties with any terrorist supporting country.

Easier said than done given realpolitik. I don't necessarily disagree, but Saudi Arabia???? Point made. He who controls the oil controls policy. That's the biggest problem.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 18):
Let's be clear. We have been at war with these lunatics since the 70's, some would argue before that. 9/11 was the wake-up call that they really meant business.

November, 1979. US Embassy. Teheran. While it would be difficult to isolate an actual date, that's as close as you'll get to a birthdate of modern terrorism.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 20):
Among things I would throw out, one would definitely be to take the golden opportunity to seize control of our own borders.

AMEN! Close the borders, militarize it if necessary, immediately cease ALL visa issuance to ALL known terrorist nations, deport citizens of same even if students, and get serious about all of this.

And tell the ACLU to STFU--mosques, CAIR, other organizations would be under surveillance.
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:20 pm



Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 23):
13. Imprison that pussy Madeleine Albright. (I know thats unrealistic)

I agree with your points .. but I don't understand what Albright has to do with this all !? Could you say me how Albright is involved , please.

Thanks ,

Constantin
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Rara
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:40 pm

I too think that Bush acted completely fine on September 12th. Why was it a problem if there was no military action against Afghanistan before one month later? If you'll remember, nobody was entirely positive on September 12th who was behind the attack and what the proper course of action would have been. That the Taliban actually condoned the attacks and protected Al-Qaida became clear only in the following weeks. Besides, how would quick action against Afghanistan have contributed anything?

I'm more wondering what I'd have done on September 11th! If someone had told me "Mr President, our country is under attack!" and minutes later "two planes have flown into the World Trade Center, more planes are highjacked" - would I have been just standing there, doing nothing, trying to show a thoughtful face and waiting for whatever happens to me next?
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Delta767300ER
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:43 pm



Quote:
I agree with your points .. but I don't understand what Albright has to do with this all !? Could you say me how Albright is involved , please.

Thanks man. I think that Albright was not aggressive enough against Al-Qaeda after the 1998 Embassy Bombings.

-Delta767300ER
 
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Mortyman
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:12 am

* Stay cool

* Hunt for Bin Laden and his network in Afganistan ( Atleast 500 000 soldiers is needed. proabably more. )

* Help the Afghan people with creating jobs other than sell opium.

* Not use the war on terror to go after everyone that had nothing to do with 9.11

* Have a realistic approach to things. In other words, don't send 160 000 soldiers into Iraq, thinking that it's gonna be Disneyland.

* Put all effort and cinceere effort in solving the Palestinian / Israel conflict, wich is the largest torn in every terrorist eyes.

* Don't defy the UN and the international community


* Stop selling weapons to warlords and other more or less suspicious people that will sooner or later turn against you.


* Stop thinking that one can push democracy on people. Democracy is something that people will have to find out for themselves that they want.


* Don't use such terms as " Either you are with us or against us "


* Don't use the frase " Axis of Evil "


* Don't change the name of your French Fries to " Freedom fries * to make fun of the French. French fries is actually Belgian, not French.

[Edited 2008-03-07 16:29:11]
 
csavel
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:18 am



Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 28):
Thanks man. I think that Albright was not aggressive enough against Al-Qaeda after the 1998 Embassy Bombings.

Wasn't just Albright, I am actually generally have issues who blame Billary for everything including the Yankees getting their asses kicked by the Indians or the Knicks season this year, but here the Clinton haters are correct. The entire Clinton administration had no clue as to what was really going on and acted half-assed. I do give some props to some in the Clinton admin who during the transition basically admitted that and said to Bush's transition team, don't eff up like we did. but still too little too late, and Albright, and Bill himself deserve a lot of blame.
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csavel
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:20 am



Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 15):
Statements like these are proof that politics should be out of reach from the common man. Your suggestion would make World War 2 look like a fruit cake.

not at all, simply a last resort, note that many of my other suggestions consist of either carrots (worked with Libya, would work with Iran and Syria) combined with good old fashioned shunning. The last resort is reserved for say, a nuke in New York.

At that point World War 2 already is a fruit cake.
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Blackbird1331
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:49 am

I would have quietly put out feelers for information on Bin Ladens whereabouts with very large dollar rewards for reliable information.
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Delta767300ER
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:10 am



Quote:
Wasn't just Albright, I am actually generally have issues who blame Billary for everything including the Yankees getting their asses kicked by the Indians or the Knicks season this year, but here the Clinton haters are correct. The entire Clinton administration had no clue as to what was really going on and acted half-assed. I do give some props to some in the Clinton admin who during the transition basically admitted that and said to Bush's transition team, don't eff up like we did. but still too little too late, and Albright, and Bill himself deserve a lot of blame.

I agree with you on that. I also feel that some members of the Clinton Administration acted half-assed. I am by no means a Clinton hater though. I also am upset with the lack of communication between the FBI, CIA and other agencies also.

My whole take on 9/11 was a lot of innocent people were killed that shouldnt have.

-Delta767300ER
 
CF188A
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:34 am

Back to the topic at hand , many of you have many many many good ideas which could have possibly been saught out to avoid the mess we are in today. But I suppose this thread is like any other "Will (place airline here) be (place activity here) because of such and such a reason? , just skeptics and opinions. So , try and hold your own maturity through it and not climb up egotistical pedestals. Def an interesting read as some of those ideas never crossed my mind.
Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow~ RIP ... LJFM
 
AirCop
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:59 am

Let's be real, no one here would have the slightest idea how they would have reacted on 9-12-2001, shoot some of you just starting high school when this event happened.
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:16 am



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 4):
Plan out a better Afghanistan War. Send in at least 500,000 troops

I agree with your point, but 500,000 troops would have been the entire US active Army and a good amount of all US Marines.

See, we didn't really have 500,000 troops to deploy to war. Not to mention, some of the US divisions are ill-suited for Afghanistan. For instance, we cannot send the 3rd ID (Infantry Division), 1st Armored, 4th ID, etc. to war there because they are heavy divisions designed for linear warfare.

If I was Chief of the Army, and you came to me on Sep 12, 2001 and asked me to send as many troops as possible to Afghanistan, I could have given you 5 active divisions, 3 guard/reserve divisions, 1 USMC division. That would leave a skeleton Army left to defend our interests at home and overseas. So with the 9 divisions I would be giving you (roughly 350,000), you would still need to find another 150,000 troops. Were would you find them?

Europe would have had to commit a massive amount of their standing forces to the fight. Using the same 20/20 vision we have now, do you think they would have been willing to do so?

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 4):
Use forces for Afghanistan and possibly Iran/North Korea.

In regards to North Korea, I totally disagree.

Use of military force to deal with North Korea, is simply out of the question. The level of destruction and human causalities is so prohibitive, it deters both sides from truly contemplating waging war. Not to mention, the same point I just made earlier applies - we do not have the manpower to fight such a war.

Quoting Csavel (Reply 10):
c) Condi war crimes trials?

Umm, what?

On Sep 12, 2001 Condoleezza Rice had been the National Security Adviser for only 234 days. What war crimes did she commit?


Quoting Csavel (Reply 10):
I am still not convinced that the hijackers smuggled boxcutters on.

So the passengers on the aircraft, who reported that the hijackers had boxcutters were lying, or misinformed?

Quoting CF188A (Reply 17):

Well for one, I sure as hell would not invade one of the most infra-structured countries in the Middle East.

Have you ever been to Iraq?

If you had, you would know this isn't the case. The infrastructure was decent in the 1980s. Since then it has been eclipsed by almost every major middle eastern country. Iraqi infrastructure was neglected for a decade while Saddam built dozens of massive palaces.

Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 23):
2. Move Special Forces into Afghanistan before an invasion.

We did do that. They were there a lot sooner than many realize. Just like our presence inside Iraq was much earlier than many realize.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
ltbewr
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:35 am

First of all, all members of the Bin-laden family in the USA, instead of allowed to leave the USA on flights to Saudi Arabia, I would have rounded them all up and put them them in a detention facility on a military base to be grilled by the CIA, as weell as seize control of all of their assets to be held until their relative Osama was dead.

I would have launched massive B-52 conventional bombing raids as soon as possible in Afghanistan, especially at known training camp facilities, the Taliban strongholds and passes to Pakistan, not wait 3 weeks.

I would have called for everybody to really sacrifice for their country they love and appeal to their patriotism. Give up more in taxes - especially the rich - to pay for the new homeland security we need and to pay for the War Against Terror to come. For example, I also would have immediately raised the gasoline tax (not on diesel) by 25 cents a gallon to raise the money to pay for part of the war on terror and to defray part of the reason of our military - to protect the oil flow from abroad. I also would have asked all to cut their use of energy by at least 10%. Drive less, travel less, use heat and air conditioning a lot less and so on.

Most of all, I wouldn't have let a bunch of neocons use 9/11 to go after Iraq/Saddam, as bad as he was to his own people and in holding down oil production and hence prices up and concentrated in Afganistan.
 
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:35 am



Quoting Csavel (Reply 10):
I am still not convinced that the hijackers smuggled boxcutters on.

"Smuggling" implies these things were illegal to carry aboard commercial airliners then.

They weren't.

These guys didn't need an inside man to plant them, since they just needed to throw 'em in their carryons. No one was looking for boxcutters because they were considered benign - no one had used them as a weapon to hijack an aircraft before, so there was no "threat" at that point.

Quoting Slider (Reply 24):
November, 1979. US Embassy. Teheran. While it would be difficult to isolate an actual date, that's as close as you'll get to a birthdate of modern terrorism.

**cough**72**cough**Munich**cough**Olympics**cough**
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:02 am

Bush already knew what he was going "to do" well before hand because he knew 9/11 was going to happen well before hand since he and his government cronies planned it all along.

Signed,
Blackbird
 wink 


Okay, now to be serious:
Heh. Reading some of the responses on here so far, I'm glad some of you weren't the Commander-in-Chief on 9/12/2001. Did Bush make mistakes? Yea. But all-in-all, I'd say he's done a pretty good job when it comes to the War on Terrorism and our national security. My response may have been to turn a few Mid-East cities into giant glass factories, so some of these countries should feel lucky they had someone a little more calm and level-headed making the decisions that day.

Oh, and just because Iraq wasn't directly linked to Al-Qaeda doesn't mean they weren't connected to terrorism. We are involved in a Global War on Terrorism, not a Global War on Al-Qaeda. Also Iraq has become part of the War on Terrorism whether we like it or not. Even if it that wasn't the primary reason for going in there, it is the primary reason for staying there now. In Iraq, we've taken the fight to them, instead of them bringing it to us.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
csavel
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 35):
Quoting Csavel (Reply 10):
I am still not convinced that the hijackers smuggled boxcutters on.

So the passengers on the aircraft, who reported that the hijackers had boxcutters were lying, or misinformed?

of course not, I am saying that they could have payed a cleaner to place them on the plane for them to use. That's why I said smuggled.
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
WestJetForLife
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:05 am

Too many variables on this topic for me, but if I was POTUS and I was certain Bin Laden was behind this:

1) Ensure that the General Public is not in panic mode, and keep things stable at home. Also, keep the economy as stable as possible.
2) Get on the phone with the allies in the Middle East and let them know that we need as much diplomatic support as possible. If they don't want in, fine, just don't attack us or we'll fight back.
3) Launch a couple dozen conventional Cruise Missiles at known Taliban Trg. Camps from either airborne B-52s or naval vessels in the Gulf or Indian Ocean (Diego Garcia, anyone?)
4) Send two Atlantic Fleet Nimitz-class aircraft carrier groups to the Indian Ocean, sending a few Navy Fighter Squadrons to go and take out whatever enemy ammo dumps/SAMs/whatever possible before they make a move.
5) Mobilize USAFE and US Army V Corps from their bases in Europe (closest strategic US military force to the Middle East, I think) to Afghanistan within 24-48 hours (Sept. 13-14 could be feasible).
6) Mobilize 82nd and 101st Airborne, as well as Delta Force and 1st Marine Division, USMC, to Afghanistan, seize the countryside, and ensure that anyone and everyone associated with 9/11 is either arrested or killed (preferably the former).

This, of course, is all hindsight. If I make any mistakes or technical errors, please feel free to correct me.

Nik

*Disclaimer: I am not a military officer/NCO, nor am I a strategist. I just put together speculative theory based on cold, hard fact.
I need a drink.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:20 am



Quoting Csavel (Reply 39):
of course not, I am saying that they could have payed a cleaner to place them on the plane for them to use. That's why I said smuggled.

Or they could have just carried them on the plane since up until Sept. 11th, boxcutters were not prohibited items, which is what they did. The weapon of choice had always been considered to be guns so knives weren't considered a threat. I remember my dad flying with his pocketknife all the time up until 9/11. Heck, I remember when you would put your keys and change in the little dish and they would just pass it around the metal-detector.

It's the same reason why up until Aug. 2006, you could carry your toothpaste and deodorant with you on the plane and now you have to check them, along with all your other "liquids". But when terrorists tried to use those to blow up airliners and the plot was foiled and it became evident that these items could be a threat, the government security agencies decided to ban those too.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
NIKV69
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:19 am

I would ask Osama for a meeting so we could sit down and talk about our differences.

Signed,

Barack Obama
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
RicciPettit
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To

Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:17 am

I would be celebrating my birthday.
Elements of the past and the future combining to make something not quite as good as either!
 
CF188A
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:40 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 42):
I would ask Osama for a meeting so we could sit down and talk about our differences.

Signed,

Barack Obama

LMFAO ..... you made my morning along with this donut i wone with roll up the rim here at Tim Hortons.... oh my . ty Smile
Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow~ RIP ... LJFM
 
halls120
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:32 pm



Quoting Pope (Reply 9):
I would have called in the director of the FBI, CIA, NSA and fired them. I would have called for the Chairman and ranking minority member of the House and Senate committees with oversight authority of these agencies to resign.

I wouldn't have immediately fired any of them, as tempting as it would have been. Bob Mueller hadn't been at FBI long enough to be fairly blamed for his agency's faults, which were a long time in developing. Now, five years later, FBI has done a fairly good job of reforming itself.

What I would have done, instead, is demanded from each of them an ambitious plan to fix the shortcomings of each agency, and fire them if not accomplished.

Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 23):
1. Launch cruise missiles the day after the attacks on terrorist training facilities in Afghanistan.
2. Move Special Forces into Afghanistan before an invasion.
3. Launch a coordinated Int'l invasion of Afghanistan with 500,000+ troops.
4. Seal off the Afghan/Pakistan border.
5. Start holding talks with Iran to stabilize Afghanistan as they are sworn enemies with the Taliban and Al-Qaeda.
6. If talks with Iran went well, I would resume diplomatic relations with them and start sending them aid for oil.
7. Re-assess our so called "friendship" with Saudi Arabia.
8. Support domestic renewable energy programs such as Ethanol so we dont have to do business with the Terrorist Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
9. Drop the "You are either with us or against us".
10. Strengthen our friendship with Jordan, Egypt, UAE, Kuwait, and other allied Arab nations.
11. Never invade Iraq.
12. Never create TSA.

You left one out - never create the abomination that remains the Department of Homeland Security. Because it was created far too hastily in the aftermath of 9/11, it remains a severely dysfunctional agency. It is still a confederation of independent legacy agencies, who spend as much time fighting among themselves as they do in doing their job.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
ctbarnes
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:55 pm

#53. Get on my knees and thank God I'm not really in charge.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
102IAHexpress
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:07 pm

It’s a no brainier for me.
Go to Rice University in Houston just like JFK did on September 12, 1962. But instead of asking Space city USA to help land a man on the Moon by the end of the decade, President Bush should have asked Energy city USA to help make America energy-independent by the end of the decade.

 
csavel
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To

Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:19 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 41):
Or they could have just carried them on the plane since up until Sept. 11th, boxcutters were not prohibited items, which is what they did. The weapon of choice had always been considered to be guns so knives weren't considered a threat. I remember my dad flying with his pocketknife all the time up until 9/11. Heck, I remember when you would put your keys and change in the little dish and they would just pass it around the metal-detector.

you know a couple of people have said that box cutters weren't prohibited. I know that the assumption was that it was guns, and also the assumption was that hijacking would be more 'traditional" but still, are you all saying that if I came up to a security line with a box cutter, which is the weapon of choice of many a ghetto youth to disfigure faces (many cities, including New York, had box cutter bans for youth - long before 9/11) *nobody * at security would even say WTF? A pocket knife or a Swiss army knife is one thing, but box cutters are really freaking sharp. Even given the standards of the day, I would venture to guess that perhaps one or two screeners would be curious. I defer to others greater knowledge but, even in the context of more relaxed pre 9/11 I am surprised by this.

I mean why stop at a box cutter, what if I came with a set of steak knives, or a saber, or a stiletto?
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: "you" Are In Charge : Sept 12th 2001 : What To Do?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:07 pm



Quoting Csavel (Reply 48):
I mean why stop at a box cutter, what if I came with a set of steak knives, or a saber, or a stiletto?

Up until 9/11, airport restaurants had steak-knives and metal knives. You probably would have been pushing your luck with a saber or a machete, but up until 9/11 knives weren't seen as a threat, just as up till Aug. 2006, toothpaste and deodorant weren't seen as a threat.

Quoting Csavel (Reply 48):
A pocket knife or a Swiss army knife is one thing, but box cutters are really freaking sharp.

It's all about what is perceived as a weapon though. Heck, it still isn't impossible to get this stuff through now.

Quoting Csavel (Reply 48):
but still, are you all saying that if I came up to a security line with a box cutter, which is the weapon of choice of many a ghetto youth to disfigure faces (many cities, including New York, had box cutter bans for youth - long before 9/11)

Spraypaint is banned from youths too. So is superglue. A lot of things are banned from youths that may not necessarily be (or perceived to be) threats to an aircraft. The hijackers found a hole in the system and exploited it that day. Simple as that.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 42):
I would ask Osama for a meeting so we could sit down and talk about our differences.

Signed,

Barack Obama

 rotfl 
Nice. Though you forgot "And start wars with our allies rather than our enemies".  silly 
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001

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