sudden
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F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:08 pm

Hi all,

We have reached half of the season, and the WDC is by all means very open.
From now on it's the one who is most consistent and ends up in the top 3 that will bring home the title. Well, that's my view of it.

Hockenheim is another of my favourite tracks as it's a high speed track, and I think we will see Alonso challenging the BMW's (as in Canada). I just hope Alonso is not pushing it too hard this time.

RBR/Webber will most likely show some good performance again, as he seems to be happy lately.

A lot of you score Hamilton to be the new rainmaster as he drove an excellent race at Silverstone, but lets not forget Heidfeld who really showed some great stuff in the wet, and I really rank him above Hamilton on this one.

So,
Does anyone dare to predict the result for Hockenheim?
I don't anymore, as ususally I get to eat my own words.  Wink

But for the sake of it,
1. Kimi
2. Hamilton
3. Massa

Track data,
Number of Laps: 67
Circuit Length: 4.574 km
Race Distance: 306.458 km
Lap Record: 1:13.780 - K Raikkonen (2004)

Aim for the sky!
Sudden
When in doubt, flat out!
 
B747forever
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:22 pm

I am really looking forward for this GP. It will get really exciting to see who will take the lead in the WDC after this race.
Will be interesting to see if Heidfeld can continue his good performance from Silverstone in Hockenheim also.
Do anyone know if this is a more "Ferrari track" or a "McLaren track"?? Hope you understand what I mean  Smile
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
jamesbuk
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:24 pm

You 'forgot' the video again  Wink



Love this track, on this video it looks as if they only drop below 50mph once  silly 

rgds --James--
You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
 
SlamClick
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:35 pm

On a related note, does anyone know why GoogleEarth still shows the old, long circuit going way off to the east? Or for that matter why the F1 websites don't orient their circuit maps north-up like the rest of the world.

Quoting Sudden (Thread starter):
dare to predict

Not a chance. Many good drivers, many fast cars, way too many variables.

edit: On further study, where is parking for this event. There appears to be what could either be a parking lot with a lot of trees, or a large cemetary at the north end of the town of Hockenheim - is that it? Sure underscores the difference between Europe and the US. For a venue that could draw a hundred thousand people in the US, parking would be needed for maybe sixty thousand cars.

I went to the Indy 500 in 1999 and had to pay to park in someone's back yard about two miles from the track. I was in the shade and it only cost ten bucks, so not a bad deal but still the difference is dramatic.

[Edited 2008-07-14 09:42:26]
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B747forever
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:40 pm

Oh dear, take a look on this weather prediction for next week at Hockenheim: http://weather.weatherbug.com/German...ast.html?zcode=z6286&lang_id=sv-SE

Another rain affected GP???
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:24 pm



Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 2):
You 'forgot' the video again

No I didn't forget.
I thought we agreed on that I was to forget this, so that you got a reason to post as well.  Wink

Aim for the sky!
Sudden
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LTU932
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:01 pm



Quoting B747forever (Reply 4):
Another rain affected GP???

The more rain, the better. Why do you ask? It's simple: because only when it rains, will we see true action on the circuit. If conditions were dry, we'd have a yet another predictable race, which will likely end with the polesitter winning it. When it rains, we see maneuvers that we usually don't see anymore in F1 since all the security measures, circuit adjustments, strategies, new rules and busted cars made the races too damn predictable.

I recently read a column about the rain during the Silverstone GP, and how that brought real exitement to the race. The man who made the editorial said that he prays for more rain, this time in Hockenheim. Hell, even Indycar races on ovals are much more exiting than a single F1 race in regular weather conditions.
 
Duff44
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:14 pm



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 3):
On a related note, does anyone know why GoogleEarth still shows the old, long circuit going way off to the east?

For the record, if you look at Klettwitz, Germany you can see a very incomplete Lausitzring (about 1 mile SE of Klettwitz... it's pretty obvious), and they used the oval for Champ Cars as early as 2001. I guess Germany images in Google just haven't been updated in a while...
I'll rassle ya for a bowl of bacon!
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:34 am

I am all for the rain. The more the better as a previous poster said. This will give Hamilton all the chances to win. He proves great in stormy weather and if he can race a Lear Jet  airplane  and win he can certainly win Hockenheim.

Go Hammy!! I know you can win this one too!!  angel   cheerful 
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sudden
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:49 am



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 8):
if he can race a Lear Jet and win he can certainly win Hockenheim.

Hm, he didn't race the Lear Jet around a track.

Aim for the sky!
Sudden
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B747forever
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:16 am



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 8):

I am sure from now on you will wish for rain for every GP because of Hamiltons excellent drive in Silverstone.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:16 am

Oh not at all!  no 

I can't imagine any rain in some of the countries where the competition will take place. Monaco had quite a bit of rain at the start and then it cleared up. No one can decide on the weather and that's a good thing.  sun 

Quoting B747forever (Reply 10):
I am sure from now on you will wish for rain for every GP because of Hamiltons excellent drive in Silverstone.

There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
flyboysp
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:12 pm

Quoting Sudden (Thread starter):
So,
Does anyone dare to predict the result for Hockenheim?
I don't anymore, as ususally I get to eat my own words.

My prediction is that the top 3 positions will be occupied by 3 different drivers ??

In all seriousness i believe it will be a strong following from Ferrari, McLaren and BMW Williams. Having said that, if it is rain effected in anyway,we could be better of predicting the winner by throwing darts.

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 2):
Love this track, on this video it looks as if they only drop below 50mph once
I used to love this track before it was butchered ? . Looking at the photos of the old track on Google Earth is quite sad.


On a side note, what is/had been the most rain effected F1 season to date? To me it seems like every second race has been rain effected and that there has been a abnormally high rain effected season

And finally, has anbody seen this article from F1 regarding Michael Schumacher's retirement. Apparently he did not want Massa to be unemployed.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/index.shtml

[Edited 2008-07-15 05:16:28]
#proudtobeabulldog
 
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LTU932
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:05 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 8):
I am all for the rain. The more the better as a previous poster said. This will give Hamilton all the chances to win.

And the same for people such as Nick Heidfeld or even Sebastian Vettel.  Wink

As said, only in adverse conditions will we see how good these drivers truely are. Strategy will play a factor in all of this, but at the same time, skills will become much more important. Remember in the rain races in Fuji, and in Shanghai last year. Those races proved how skilled Vettel truely is (and ironically, those races were the worst Hamilton had made in that season).

The point is, a race in the rain is a make or break deal for anyone, because that's where you see how good they are.
 
B747forever
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:11 am

Here is the weather report from F1.com: http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/7/8096.html
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bill142
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:39 am



Quoting Sudden (Thread starter):
From now on it's the one who is most consistent and ends up in the top 3 that will bring home the title. Well, that's my view of it.

I wouldn't count out Kubica. He's been more consistent at scoring points then anyone at the front of the field. If he didn't DNF at Silverstone he'd be leading.

Come on Heikki, you feisty Finn show us what you're made of!!
 
baroque
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:18 pm



Quoting Sudden (Thread starter):
Does anyone dare to predict the result for Hockenheim?
I don't anymore, as ususally I get to eat my own words.

If wet as seems a popular prediction, you might need to alter yours Sudden??

How is the track for run-offs and by difference for safety cars?
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:38 pm

Now it's official, Vettel to join RBR next season. A great move that he really deserve!
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/7/8098.html

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scbriml
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:47 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 16):
How is the track for run-offs and by difference for safety cars?

While not as wide-open as Silverstone, it is, nonetheless, reasonably open. The posted video gives a good feel.

Hopefully a SC would not be necessary in the event of a couple of Ferraris spinning.  duck 
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LTU932
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:29 pm



Quoting Sudden (Reply 17):
Now it's official, Vettel to join RBR next season. A great move that he really deserve!

It was to be expected. One big plus is also that David Coulthard and Sebastian Vettel get along just fine, so Coulthard, just before his retirement, can give Vettel a few important pointers before Vettel takes over for him.
 
BlueElephant
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:36 am

Guys...I'm exciting for the race...


BUT...I'm getting nervous because I was looking for the TV Listing...and Couldn't Find the F1 Race for this Sunday...they're playing something else on Speed TV...anyone know anything?
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:50 am



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 19):
It was to be expected. One big plus is also that David Coulthard and Sebastian Vettel get along just fine, so Coulthard, just before his retirement, can give Vettel a few important pointers before Vettel takes over for him.

D.C will be around even after that Vettel has taken over his seat, so he can most likely benefit from the experience that D.C have built up over the years.

Thursday press conference:
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/7/8101.html

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Sudden
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B747forever
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:10 am



Quoting Sudden (Reply 17):
Now it's official, Vettel to join RBR next season. A great move that he really deserve!
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlin....html

Really glad fot that young man. He has a future in F1!!
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
bill142
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:43 am



Quoting Sudden (Reply 17):
Now it's official, Vettel to join RBR next season. A great move that he really deserve!

Good move for him, but isn't he also on loan to Red Bull from BMW?
 
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:40 am

First practice just finished. Started wet, but was drying as the session progressed (without looking completely dry). Quite a few drivers had minor "offs" and a lot missed the hairpin.

Initial results

1. HAMILTON McLaren 1m15.537s
2. KOVALAINEN McLaren 1m15.666s
3. MASSA Ferrari 1m15.796s
4. ALONSO Renault 1m16.163s
5. RAIKKONEN Ferrari 1m16.327s
6. ROSBERG Williams 1m16.606s
7. VETTEL Toro Rosso 1m16.618s
8. HEIDFELD BMW 1m16.719s
9. NAKAJIMA Williams 1m16.821s
10. PIQUET Renault 1m17.063s
11. COULTHARD Red Bull 1m17.108s
12. BUTTON Honda 1m17.131s
13. GLOCK Toyota 1m17.185s
14. WEBBER Red Bull 1m17.268s
15. FISICHELLA Force India 1m17.471s
16. BARRICHELLO Honda 1m17.500s
17. TRULLI Toyota 1m17.556s
18. SUTIL Force India 1m17.784s
19. KUBICA BMW 1m18.779s
20. BOURDAIS Toro Rosso 1m21.506s


The on-board shots of Raikkonen looked as though he was really struggling.   

[Edited 2008-07-18 02:48:58]
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:37 pm

Second practice has finished, with a completely dry session.

Results:

1. HAMILTON McLaren 1m15.025s
2. MASSA Ferrari 1m15.722s
3. RAIKKONEN Ferrari 1m15.760s
4. KOVALAINEN McLaren 1m15.990s
5. WEBBER Red Bull 1m16.017s
6. ALONSO Renault 1m16.230s
7. ROSBERG Williams 1m16.355s
8. KUBICA BMW 1m16.363s
9. HEIDFELD BMW 1m16.377s
10. COULTHARD Red Bull 1m16.378s
11. VETTEL Toro Rosso 1m16.422s
12. TRULLI Toyota 1m16.530s
13. BUTTON Honda 1m16.542s
14. BARRICHELLO Honda 1m16.677s
15. PIQUET Renault 1m16.734s
16. GLOCK Toyota 1m16.781s
17. NAKAJIMA Williams 1m16.839s
18. BOURDAIS Toro Rosso 1m16.860s
19. SUTIL Force India 1m17.008s
20. FISICHELLA Force India 1m17.047s

Big gap between Hamilton and the Ferraris.

[Edited 2008-07-18 06:56:21]
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
bill142
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:50 am



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 24):
The on-board shots of Raikkonen looked as though he was really struggling.

Possibly lacking a bit of grip? or perhaps it was those spinning Ferrari gremlins cropping up again.
 
aerobalance
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:12 am



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 25):
Big gap between Hamilton and the Ferraris.

Couldn't be light on fuel or anything like that? Isn't it true that qualifying times are more important than practice times?
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:50 am

Let's hope for the same today... and tomorrow!

Go Hammy!
I know you can do it!!!  trophy   angel   cheerful 

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 24):
1. HAMILTON McLaren 1m15.537s



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 25):
1. HAMILTON McLaren 1m15.025s



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 25):
Big gap between Hamilton and the Ferraris.

There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
aerobalance
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:56 am

Go Nakajima! You can do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:19 am



Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 27):
Isn't it true that qualifying times are more important than practice times?

Yes, very much so.

Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 29):
Go Nakajima! You can do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, you can find the track!!!! Just follow the signs HOCKENHEIM!!!

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Sudden
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B747forever
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:24 am

So this will be in the end another rain affected race. And we do have a interesting qualifying today as it may rain during it: http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/7/8096.html
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ba757
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:53 am

I won't see the race unfortunately until next Friday, but no doubt this should be a great grand prix. The new Hock isn't the icon of it's former self, but it still produces great races.

Enjoy it guys.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 28):
Let's hope for the same today... and tomorrow!

Go Hammy!
I know you can do it!!! trophy angel cheerful

You are probably the most obsessed person I know. You should maybe consider seeing a doctor.
 
bill142
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:08 am



Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 27):
Couldn't be light on fuel or anything like that?

The fuel light probably came on but he noticed that if he went around the corners faster it went off  wink 
 
B747forever
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:49 am

Work Hard, Fly Right
 
B747forever
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:23 pm

Out are;

Nakajima
Piquet
Barrichello
Sutil
Fisi.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
sandrozrh
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:24 pm

Sutil deserves a good kicking for holding up Kubica.
 
B747forever
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:45 pm

Pity for Heidfeld that is out, he will start from P12 tomorrow
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B747forever
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:03 pm

Congrats to Hamilton on his 3rd pole this season. Kimi only 6th  Wow!
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sudden
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:16 pm

Well done to Trulli! Great to see him so far up the grid.
Kimi only on P6, but he could have put in another lap as he had like 3 seconds to spare before the flag dropped, but he lifted off directly after crossing the line, which indicates that he is on a heavy fuel load.

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Sudden
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:24 pm



Quoting Sudden (Reply 39):
but he lifted off directly after crossing the line, which indicates that he is on a heavy fuel load.

Don't all the drivers in Q3 lift off as soon as they've finished their final lap.  scratchchin 

I'm far from convinced he's particularly heavy, he's been off the pace all weekend. From the on-board footage, for whatever reason, his car looks a real dog to drive. I can certainly see him finishing 4th or even possibly 3rd, but unless Hamilton and Massa both have problems, I can't see him competing for a win.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
B747forever
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:13 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 40):
he's been off the pace all weekend

Agree, he will have a tough race tomorrow.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
withak
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:32 pm

Can anyone tell me a site where I can get a stream of the race tomorrow. I've had trouble finding one that works in germany

Kris
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:45 pm

Search for Sopcast on Google and download it. You should get all sports and F1 live streaming no problem, with a choice of channels only most probably in languages like Korean or Chinese. Go on their site. Sopcast generally works with all newer OS like Vista, Windows 2000 or XP but not Windows 98.

Quoting WithaK (Reply 43):
Can anyone tell me a site where I can get a stream of the race tomorrow. I've had trouble finding one that works in germany

There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
Rockson
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:03 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 40):
Don't all the drivers in Q3 lift off as soon as they've finished their final lap.

Not necessarily if there's time left and you want to make a final attempt, right?
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:13 pm



Quoting Rockson (Reply 45):
Quoting Scbriml (Reply 40):
Don't all the drivers in Q3 lift off as soon as they've finished their final lap.

Not necessarily if there's time left and you want to make a final attempt, right?

Indeed!
As I wrote above, he crossed the line before the flag came out, so he could have made another run.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 40):
I'm far from convinced he's particularly heavy, he's been off the pace all weekend

Well, compare his times from Q1 and Q2 with Q3, and the answer is right there.

Aim for the sky!
Sudden
When in doubt, flat out!
 
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:04 pm



Quoting Rockson (Reply 45):
Not necessarily if there's time left and you want to make a final attempt, right?

IF there's time and IF you want to, yes. Otherwise, as I said, the driver finishes his final lap and then lifts off.

Quoting Sudden (Reply 46):
Well, compare his times from Q1 and Q2 with Q3, and the answer is right there.

All the drivers are slower in Q3. Raikkonen by more as he couldn't get his car setup right. If you want to believe the only reason Raikkonen is in 6th place is because he was carrying more fuel than anyone else, fine, but you'll simply be ignoring the evidence of the rest of the weekend. The on-board footage showed he was really struggling to drive the car.

Raikkonen's own view:
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/7/8117.html

Quote:
All weekend long, we have been struggling a bit to find a good set-up for the car. At the end of yesterday, it seemed we were on the right road and this morning we tried to improve still further down this path, but it was not the right one. Then, in qualifying, we went reasonably well with low fuel, but in the final session, the car was not as good. Clearly sixth place is not satisfying and tomorrow we won't be in for an easy time

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
Rockson
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:21 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 47):

I don't know if he is heavy on fuel or not, but if he is I wouldn't expect him to say it.
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:44 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 47):
If you want to believe the only reason Raikkonen is in 6th place is because he was carrying more fuel than anyone else, fine

No worries mate, but that he would be this slow in Q3 by just saying he can not find the right set up, sounds pretty corny to me, seeing both Trulli and Alonso are ahead of him.
Well, we see tomorrow, and lets hope we are in for a good race.

Made me think though, will Kovalinen be very wide tomorrow to hold up Massa so that Hamilton can build up a safe lead!? Well, first of all he will have to get a good start.
And as last year, Kova is now starting to show what he's made of. It's great to see how he pushes the car to the limit with running wide as result. Might not provide him with the best times, but sure spectacular to watch.

One other thing, have we seen any major engine blow ups from Mclaren and Ferrari this season so far? I can not remember any to be honest.

Aim for the sky!
Sudden
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scbriml
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Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: F1 2008, Hockenheim!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:10 pm



Quoting Rockson (Reply 48):
I don't know if he is heavy on fuel or not, but if he is I wouldn't expect him to say it.

Well, once qualifying is finished, it doesn't really matter. Very often a driver who qualifies lower than expected with a heavy fuel load, says something to the effect "I'm not worried about my grid slot, we have a good strategy for the race." That's code for "I'm full of fuel."

Quoting Sudden (Reply 49):
No worries mate, but that he would be this slow in Q3 by just saying he can not find the right set up, sounds pretty corny to me, seeing both Trulli and Alonso are ahead of him.

The thing is, Raikkonen's been off the pace and slower than Massa all weekend. If he'd been fastest all weekend, then ended up 6th on the grid, I wouldn't dispute it was most likely because he had a lot of fuel. Now, I do expect both Trulli and Alonso to have less fuel than most around them, hence my earlier comment about him being able to finish 4th.

Do you not agree that the on-board footage showed how hard he was having to work to drive the car?

Quoting Sudden (Reply 49):
Well, we see tomorrow, and lets hope we are in for a good race.

We will, and I'm expecting a fairly close battle between Hamilton and Massa.
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