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OA260
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Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:09 pm

We are all looking forward to Obamas trip to Europe and it will probably be the first visit by a high profile US politican that will not be met with protests.
______________________________

The continent's leaders and ordinary citizens are enthusiastic about Obama, but they recognize that their embrace could backfire in the U.S.
By Geraldine Baum, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
July 16, 2008
PARIS -- From prime ministers to college students, Europeans want to cloak Barack Obama in a warm embrace when he arrives on the continent next week. But they're also aware that anything that looks or smells like elitist Old Europe could hurt the Democratic contender with voters back home.

Obama has yet to finalize his itinerary for Europe. However, he is already set to skip Brussels, the capital of the modern united continent, for the traditional symbols of economic and military power: London, Paris and Berlin.

All those European capitals' leaders have expressed a willingness to adapt their schedules to see the American politician whose sky-high approval ratings in their countries are at least as good as their own. Polls reveal that if they could vote in the United States, between 53% and 72% of the British, French and German public would pull the lever for Obama.

"If Britons elected American presidents, Barack Obama would have no worries," began an editorial in the left-wing British newspaper, the Guardian.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...ovisit16-2008jul16,0,2643448.story
 
NoUFO
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:41 pm



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
it will probably be the first visit by a high profile US politican that will not be met with protests.

Ronald Reagan, who wasn't quite popular in Germany, did not hear much protest (if any) when he was giving his speech at the Brandenburg Gate.

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
The continent's leaders and ordinary citizens are enthusiastic about Obama,

They are not "enthusiastic" but are looking forward to an improved relationship, no matter who is going to become the next U.S. President.

While it is true that Obama's point of view is more in line with that of the the European mainstream, any U.S. President will put American interests first (surprise), and everyone knows that he will not be kind of a Messiah.
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sv7887
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:47 pm



Quoting NoUFO (Reply 1):
While it is true that Obama's point of view is more in line with that of the the European mainstream, any U.S. President will put American interests first (surprise), and everyone knows that he will not be kind of a Messiah.


Tell that to the American voters who think Obama will cure all that ails American with "Change" All it amounts to is warm sounding but empty platitudes..Obama like any politician will say anything to get elected. He pandered to the far left to beat Hillary, now he's going centrist to get the independents.

Hillary Clinton was the stronger candidate but lacked the rockstar appeal of Obama who thinks of himself as Robert Kennedy in 1968...Same kind of crowds, same appeal, difference was RFK had substance and had sound morals.

I am guessing either McCain or Obama will be an improvement over President Bush, but I think neither candidate has much substance, much like the 2000 and 2004 election.

I see America much like I see Pan Am. Once great organizations led into the ground by weak and incompetent leadership..

-Sam
 
767Lover
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:53 pm



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
Polls reveal that if they could vote in the United States, between 53% and 72% of the British, French and German public would pull the lever for Obama.

That's kind of a big spread, and kind of an ambiguous stat.

Anyway, what a ridiculous article.

First of all, the people who would be put off by something smelling of "Old Europe" (to quote the article) probably wouldn't be voting for him anyway. Moreover, he is what he is, and he's the democratic nominee, so it's not like this visit is going to change anything.

I really doubt Europeans would show such obsequiousness to anyone.
 
NoUFO
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:31 pm

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 3):
That's kind of a big spread, and kind of an ambiguous stat.

You can say that again.

I'm among those 53% (or 72%) of Europeans who would vote for Obama. In the eyes of some journalists this makes me an Obama enthusiast. But I would possibly vote for Mrs. Merkel rather than for Senator Obama any day of the week. Does that make me a Merkel uber-enthusiast? I ask, because I have never voted for her, nor do I intend to do so.

Enthusiasm is something different. Still I frequently come across reports by some American journalists or professors who manage to publish an article in a German weekly or daily newspaper lecturing that Europeans "must." "finally." "understand." that even Mr. Obama will be in the same line as previous U.S. Presidents were.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 2):
the rockstar appeal of Obama who thinks of himself as Robert Kennedy in 1968.

Honestly, I don't think Europeans are immune against what you have called rockstar appeal. At the same time it's obvious that - if he gets elected - some day his close season will be over. He will have his strong days and his weak days, his approval rating will inavitably drop. And life will go on.
America will not go the way of Pan Am, no matter what candidate you pick. The USA is strong and people know how to adjust to new situations.

[Edited 2008-07-17 16:35:11]
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OA260
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:40 pm



Quoting NoUFO (Reply 4):
America will not go the way of Pan Am, no matter what candidate you pick. The USA is strong and people know how to adjust to new situations.

Only time will tell. There is alot of work to be done to pick themselves up.
 
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:51 pm

Please, await him with open arms, grab him firmly, and keep him. America will be better without a racist, "change"-ing person such as Obama.
 
AirCop
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:05 am



Quoting Jpax (Reply 6):
America will be better without a racist, "change"-ing person such as Obama.

This statement is uncalled for. And how do you know that he is a racist? By any chance are you one of the low informational voters that both sides are talking about?
 
AirCop
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:07 am



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 2):
I see America much like I see Pan Am. Once great organizations led into the ground by weak and incompetent leadership..

You have a good point here. Leadership and new ideas have come from the state legislatures in recent years and not Washington.
 
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:23 am

The really sad part is that for the entire trip all three boradcast networks will have their anchors traipsing behind him. I doubt any sort of flub or mis-step will get even the briefest airing unlike any gaff by the current President. On top of that it will be a 15-20 minute political infomercial every night starting at 6:30 eastern 5:30 central. I think the GOP and Senator McCain have a legitimate gripe here. He certainly didn't get the same coverage when he made his trip to Europe and the middle east in March.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...mccain?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

Seems to me the equal time rule ought to apply here.
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AirCop
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:34 am



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 9):
He certainly didn't get the same coverage when he made his trip to Europe and the middle east in March.

RJ what was happening in March? A hotly contested primary according to the network news tonight the press wasn't invited and besides as one person wrote, in another tread, McCain had already been to the middle east several times and so it really wasn't important news.
 
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:47 am



Quoting AirCop (Reply 10):
RJ what was happening in March?

None of that changes the equal time rule. It is too late to go with Sen. McCain to europe and the middle east but if they are going to traipse after Sen. Obama and give him 15-20 minutes of air time every night they should have to give Sen. McCain equal time as the FCC dictates.
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:49 am



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 9):
The really sad part is that for the entire trip all three boradcast networks will have their anchors traipsing behind him. I doubt any sort of flub or mis-step will get even the briefest airing unlike any gaff by the current President. On top of that it will be a 15-20 minute political infomercial every night starting at 6:30 eastern 5:30 central. I think the GOP and Senator McCain have a legitimate gripe here. He certainly didn't get the same coverage when he made his trip to Europe and the middle east in March.

Maybe because McCain isn't very interesting subject matter? News companies want ratings and viewers.
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AirCop
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:52 am

Here is your so called Equal Time Rules; as you can read, it does not apply..to many loopholes.
http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/E/htmlE/equaltimeru/equaltimeru.htm
By your way of thinking then the networks must give all the minor candidates equal time also, but anyways here's the paragraph that explains:

Congress reacted quickly by creating four exemptions to the equal opportunity law. Stations who gave time to candidates on regularly scheduled newscasts, news interviews shows, documentaries (assuming the candidate wasn't the primary focus of the documentary), or on-the-spot news events would not have to offer equal time to other candidates for that office. In creating these exemptions, Congress stressed that the public interest would be served by allowing stations the freedom to cover the activities of candidates without worrying that any story about a candidate, no matter how tangentially related to his or her candidacy, would require equal time.

[Edited 2008-07-17 17:56:20]
 
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:00 am



Quoting AirCop (Reply 7):
. And how do you know that he is a racist?

Everything about his present and past clearly points to him being a black-supremacist.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 7):
By any chance are you one of the low informational voters that both sides are talking about?

Not in the least.
 
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:18 am



Quoting Jpax (Reply 14):
Everything about his present and past clearly points to him being a black-supremacist.

What? Care to give some examples?
 
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:34 am

Obama is seen by many in Europe correctly as someone far different than GWB. Obama is seen as moderately intellectual while GWB is seen as having no intellectual curiosity. They see in Obama diplomacy instead of war, working with others rather than being arrogant respecting others opinions and so on. Most important, they see someone willing to get the USA out of Iraq. I do hope his tour is successful, that he learns more of the world, speaks to different voices and gets big adoring crowds.
 
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:34 am



Quoting AirCop (Reply 15):
What? Care to give some examples?

Just going for the obvious ones-- His church, his mentor throughout life, "typical white person," "white folks."

For many, many more examples, Google it. Don't act like you've never heard it before. God forbid, a white person said "typical black person" while running for President-- his or her life would be over.
 
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:35 am



Quoting Jpax (Reply 14):
Everything about his present and past clearly points to him being a black-supremacist.

Yep. And the black(!) helicopters are already on their way to pick you up...!  hypnotized 
 
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:38 am



Quoting AirCop (Reply 13):
Here is your so called Equal Time Rules; as you can read, it does not apply..to many loopholes.

When I get home, if I am not to tired, I will dig up the actual FCC regulations, not the museum version. I spent 18 years in tv and radio so I have a little more than passing knowledge of what constitutes an "equal" time scenario. Suffice to say regular news does not require equal time. Making a special presentation or gearing your newscast around the candidates activities as the majors are doing does. An example is the conventions themselves. If you measure the broadcast hours given each, they are very close. There is a reason for that. They (the major networks) unfortunately will not be held accountable but that does not mean they are not violating the rules as well as showing how biased they really are.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:48 am



Quoting Jpax (Reply 17):
For many, many more examples, Google it.

Already have, there nothing that approach your comment. Let see someone that taught law at the University of Chicago for 12 years and has worked with some of the most conservative members (Lugar, Coburn, Brownback) of the Senate to pass/propose legislation, must be a radical.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 7):
are you one of the low informational voters

Sorry Jpax it appears this description fits.
 
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:59 am



Quoting AirCop (Reply 20):
Quoting Jpax (Reply 17):
For many, many more examples, Google it.

Already have, there nothing that approach your comment. Let see someone that taught law at the University of Chicago for 12 years and has worked with some of the most conservative members (Lugar, Coburn, Brownback) of the Senate to pass/propose legislation, must be a radical.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 7):
are you one of the low informational voters

Sorry Jpax it appears this description fits.

How people behave in their workplace and what they do at home are two different
things entirely. Just look at Hollywood celebrities. There's a public persona and then there is a private one..How many politicians say one thing and act in a completely different way in their private lives? This goes for both Republicans and Democrats...

I'm a firm believer in the saying "The company you keep says a lot about you"
 
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:06 am



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 21):
There's a public persona and then there is a private one..

While true, apparently on the news tonight it came to light that McCain had told a joke in one of his Senate races, about women enjoying rape. Ouch!
 
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:09 am



Quoting AirCop (Reply 20):
Sorry Jpax it appears this description fits.

It's quite alright for you to label me that, e-insults don't hurt me. Anyway, it's better than being an Obama follower.  Wink
 
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:18 am

Ever notice that the European public tends to welcome any US president with a weak foreign policy with open arms? They loved Jimmy Carter who stood-by while Iran was taken over by the mullahs. They loved Bill Clinton when he didn't respond to several terrorist attacks on American interests. Furthermore, they loved him when their politicians begged that he send troops to the Balkan Civil Wars and he obliged.

On the other hand, they despised Reagan, who landed the final crushing blows to USSR. Of course, they're going to hate Bush being that he actually dealt with terrorism by taking down the Taliban. In an interesting twist, the Europeans were quite happy to have Clinton and the US deal with a genocidal dictator in Milosevic, but were not quite as happy when a genocidal dictator in Hussein was taken out under Boosh.

All in all, I'm happy that Europeans don't vote in our elections.
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jm017
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:01 am



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):

The continent's leaders and ordinary citizens are enthusiastic about Obama, but they recognize that their embrace could backfire in the U.S.

Nice. But in the end, McCain will win the election. Why? With people making comments like this:

Quoting Jpax (Reply 6):
Please, await him with open arms, grab him firmly, and keep him. America will be better without a racist, "change"-ing person such as Obama.

...or stating with conviction that he is Muslim (and saying so in a pejorative manner) I have no hope that folks are going to vote with intelligence come November. Why? Too many people are making asinine comments such as the one immediately above, some are making their choice based solely on race (Blacks AND Whites), some (Clinton backers) are not voting or voting for McCain because their candidate lost the nomination (and not because of real differences in Obama's platform).

Quoting Jpax (Reply 17):
For many, many more examples, Google it.

Google it?  rotfl 
You have GOT to be kidding me! That's your source? Google? Credibility of your comments completely gone now...Did you take the time to screen the links that popped up or did any fringe right wing web site fit the bill?

I am no Obama lover, by the way. And I believe his association with that idiot Reverend Wright was unfortunate. But you cannot look solely at this long-term association and EXCLUDE the fact that he is bi-racial and has EMBRACED being bi-racial. That embrace is not something for the cameras. (though i have to say I am tired of seeing the pictures  Smile )

Poor Obama. This is a fight he cannot win. Anything he does will tick off some segment of the population. All McCain has to do is smile for the cameras.
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
PSA727
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:39 am

It's funny how this writer is worried that Obama's
opponents might use the "enthusiastic embrace"
of him in Europe to their advantage by labeling
him an Old Europe elitist. Yet, her schoolgirl-crush
platitudes of him don't seem to bother her at all and
how they might be perceived by the reader.

She's one more reason why I gave up reading the
L.A. Times. It really used to be such a good paper.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
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OA260
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:54 am



Quoting JM017 (Reply 25):
Nice. But in the end, McCain will win the election. Why? With people making comments like this:

You are probably right. Its a shame that if true America will be voting for more terrorist attacks on its own soil and more of its children will be coming back in boxes from the Middle East. You would think that after 2 terms of Bush they might have learnt something. Oh well you reap what you sow !!
 
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:06 am



Quoting OA260 (Reply 27):
You are probably right. Its a shame that if true America will be voting for more terrorist attacks on its own soil and more of its children will be coming back in boxes from the Middle East. You would think that after 2 terms of Bush they might have learnt something. Oh well you reap what you sow !!

You mean to say that no terrorist attacks will occur in the
U.S. if Obama is elected president?

I did not know that the islamic fundamentalists were only
waiting for someone to make pretty speeches from the
Oval Office in order for them to stop calling Americans
infadels. Who knew that it was as simple as that!

By the way, the people who planned the 9/11 attacks did
so when the last president who gave pretty speeches (and
was loved in Europe) was in office. Go figure!
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
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OA260
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:19 am



Quoting PSA727 (Reply 28):
You mean to say that no terrorist attacks will occur in the
U.S. if Obama is elected president?

Maybe he will be a bit of a better ''diplomat'' because like it or not Bush has created alot more hate for your country from people who were once staunch allies. Just a shame alot of your country folk dont smell the coffee yet !! It really is a great shame when you look at the country America could have and should have been. Right now its a mess and thats sad.
 
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:48 am



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
We are all looking forward to Obamas trip to Europe

All? I certainly couldn't care less and I pity those on the other side of the Atlantic who belive that Obama's photo ops in "5 countries in 5 days" will change anything about his foreign policy inexperience.
And if his only asset is that "he is no Bush" and empty exclamations... isn't it that a bit too little?
 
NoUFO
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:53 am



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 24):
Ever notice that the European public tends to welcome any US president with a weak foreign policy with open arms?

No. And I have always lived in Europe. Not to mention that I was at a legal voting age and could read newspapers - both, in English and German - when Reagan was elected, as opposed to you who probably was barely toilet trained.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 24):
Of course, they're going to hate Bush being that he actually dealt with terrorism by taking down the Taliban.

That's why we joined him.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 24):
but were not quite as happy when a genocidal dictator in Hussein was taken out under Boosh.

So, for a change, the reason for invading Iraq was that Saddam Hussein had committed a genocide 15 years before, a genocide that was widely ignored in the western world back then?
The Kosovo war helped a likewise dangerous madman (like Ahmadinejad) to gain control over the region how exactly? And the Kosovo war shifted the focus from battling against Al-Qaeda on a new, unnecessary battlefield, right?
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:57 am



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 24):
Of course, they're going to hate Bush being that he actually dealt with terrorism by taking down the Taliban.

So terrorism has been dealt with and the Taliban is gone? I must have missed the memo.

That wouldn't quite align with the reality of the situation in Afghanistan, which is now a huge mess and where the Taliban is nearly as strong as they were in 2001.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/wo.../14afghan.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 24):
All in all, I'm happy that Europeans don't vote in our elections.

Don't worry, the feeling is entirely mutual.  wave 
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OA260
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:57 am



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 32):
Don't worry, the feeling is entirely mutual.

Yes if I want the circus I will buy a ticket for one .....
 
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N328KF
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:37 pm



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Please, Europe, you can have him!

Quoting Jpax (Reply 6):
Please, await him with open arms, grab him firmly, and keep him. America will be better without a racist, "change"-ing person such as Obama.



Quoting AirCop (Reply 7):
This statement is uncalled for. And how do you know that he is a racist? By any chance are you one of the low informational voters that both sides are talking about?

I do not think Obama is racist. However, I think many of the people supporting him are. By supporting, I am referring to three classes of people: 1) people involved in his campaign 2) famous people on the periphery of his campaign or not directly involved 3) voters.

Of course, many people are not supporting him for racist reasons as well.

Myself, I think there are plenty of reasons to not vote for Obama that have nothing to do with race. He could be the invisible man and I would still despise his politics.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
Falcon84
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:56 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 2):
I am guessing either McCain or Obama will be an improvement over President Bush

You don't have to guess on that one. That is a fact.

Quoting Jpax (Reply 6):
Please, await him with open arms, grab him firmly, and keep him. America will be better without a racist, "change"-ing person such as Obama.

 rotfl 

What a lame line of BS that is. I don't see anything racist about him. The fact that most whites still won't vote for him tells me the racism is still somehwere else.

Quoting Jpax (Reply 14):
Everything about his present and past clearly points to him being a black-supremacist.

 rotfl . That's amazing, considering he's HALF WHITE!

Again, a load of partisan garbage, of which we will hear more of from the Repubicans as McCain inches closer to defeat.
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mt99
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:57 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 9):
Seems to me the equal time rule ought to apply here.

What "rule"? Looking at McSame is like looking at paint dry.

There is a reason Hanna Montana is famous. As much ad id like her to shut up - its what the people want to hear. Its a democracy!
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jm017
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:57 pm



Quoting N328KF (Reply 34):
Myself, I think there are plenty of reasons to not vote for Obama that have nothing to do with race. He could be the invisible man and I would still despise his politics.

And that's how it should be. Agree or disagree with the politics, but too many people are not looking beyond the colour of his skin.



Quoting PSA727 (Reply 26):
Yet, her schoolgirl-crush platitudes of him don't seem to bother her at all and how they might be perceived by the reader.

One of the reasons I was highly critical of Obama was just this "Obama cult." I would scream (at the TV): "ARE YOU LISTENING TO HIM? What (if anything) was he saying?" Infatuation is nice, but at some point you have to tune into the message. I was not impressed.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 27):
You would think that after 2 terms of Bush they might have learnt something. Oh well you reap what you sow !!

Not a chance that they will have learnt anything, sadly.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 24):
Of course, they're going to hate Bush being that he actually dealt with terrorism by taking down the Taliban

 rotfl 
I don't know where to begin.....
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N328KF
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:02 pm



Quoting JM017 (Reply 37):
One of the reasons I was highly critical of Obama was just this "Obama cult." I would scream (at the TV): "ARE YOU LISTENING TO HIM? What (if anything) was he saying?" Infatuation is nice, but at some point you have to tune into the message. I was not impressed.

He's a demagogue, pure and simple. There were other demagogues in history...Hitler was one of them. Obama is not Hitler, but they both appeal to some people who like them for factors other than just their message.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:17 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
The fact that most whites still won't vote for him tells me the racism is still somehwere else.

WHAT??? Most whites won't vote for him? That's quite a feat, being able to pick up the Democratic nomination without the support of the largest demographic of the country.

Seriously, no offense to you personally because you seem like a good guy, but the crap that gets uttered on these boards is just amazing.

You might find this of interest.

From Black Agenda Report:

Obama’s White Male Voters: Do They Hear Something Blacks Don’t?

The corporate media and most Blacks with access to a mass public never seem to seriously examine the meaning of the most dramatic, history-shaking statistic in Barack Obama's march to the White House: he's picking up strong majorities of white men."

http://www.blackagendareport.com/ind...ption=com_content&task=view&id=537
 
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OA260
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:29 pm

Europe prepares for Obamania

Large crowds are expected at his European events as people want to get their first glance at the man who could become the first African-American president

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0718/uselection.html
 
mt99
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:44 pm

It might help him too. The more and more of US population now understands that how the world view the US is of importance and the the US cannot exist in vacuum. So having Obama be well received, might encourage votes.

You say that "Good thing Europe doesn't vote on US presidents" but remember that "Europe also did not 'approve' of the War in Iraq"

You didnt listen to Europe then and looked how that turned out. Maybe now it the time to - at least - take into consideration what the rest of the world thinks.
Step into my office, baby
 
Falcon84
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:01 pm



Quoting 767Lover (Reply 39):
WHAT??? Most whites won't vote for him? That's quite a feat, being able to pick up the Democratic nomination without the support of the largest demographic of the country.

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/obama-n...-divide-poll/n20080716010009990003
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
VCEapt
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:06 pm

That's actually not true. Not all leaders of Europe back him.
Italy has just re-elect hands down the Conservative Silvio Berlusconi that declared already to prefer McCain.. and it's obvious since his party is allied with the US Republicans. And it's obvious that Obama will not be received in Rome for this reason.
The same is for many other leaders. In Spain it is Zapatero.. but what about if it was Aznar? And what about if in Germany instead of a Great Coalition, Mrs Merkel was Chancellor just with her CDU party?

And especially what about David Cameron? I don't think the future British Premier will be much happy to have a Democrat like Obama at the presidency.

[Edited 2008-07-18 09:07:18]
 
767Lover
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:29 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 42):
Quoting 767Lover (Reply 39):
WHAT??? Most whites won't vote for him? That's quite a feat, being able to pick up the Democratic nomination without the support of the largest demographic of the country.

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/obama-n...-divide-poll/n20080716010009990003

The article you linked to doesn't prove anything. Where does it say that MOST WHITES WON'T vote for him?

The article basically talks about how Americans see the issue of race in America.

The fact that only 31 percent of whites in the poll had a favorable view doesn't mean it wasn't favorable because of his race.

"Twenty-seven percent of whites said too much had been made of problems facing black people," means that 73 percent agree that black people have faced problems. That doesn't sound like a "no" vote to a black.

And the most revealing nugget:

"A new Washington Post-ABC News poll found Obama leading McCain by 50 percent to 42 percent among registered voters nationwide."

That wouldn't be possible if whites didn't want to vote for him.
 
RJdxer
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:27 pm



Quoting 767Lover (Reply 44):
The article you linked to doesn't prove anything

Nothing new there.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 44):
Where does it say that MOST WHITES WON'T vote for him?

It doesn't but why let a little fact like that stop you from linking?

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 44):
The fact that only 31 percent of whites in the poll had a favorable view doesn't mean it wasn't favorable because of his race.

DING DING, Bob, tell 767lover what he's won!!!
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
jcs17
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:27 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 32):

That wouldn't quite align with the reality of the situation in Afghanistan, which is now a huge mess and where the Taliban is nearly as strong as they were in 2001.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/wo...login

Has the security situation deteriorated in Afghanistan? Yes, however, I would place more blame on the Pakistani government more than anything else. Pakistan is either impotent to stop the spread of terror bases in their nation, or in some cases (like the ISI), is assisting the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in their quest for terror in Afghanistan. Of course, when the coalition captured Afghanistan, the majority of Taliban and Al-Qaeda leaders were either captured or fled across the border. Unfortunately, Pakistan has been less than willing to hold up their end of the bargain.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 31):

So, for a change, the reason for invading Iraq was that Saddam Hussein had committed a genocide 15 years before, a genocide that was widely ignored in the western world back then? The Kosovo war helped a likewise dangerous madman (like Ahmadinejad) to gain control over the region how exactly? And the Kosovo war shifted the focus from battling against Al-Qaeda on a new, unnecessary battlefield, right?



Quoting NoUFO (Reply 31):

That's why we joined him.

NoUFO, lets be honest about who is actually pulling the weight in Afghanistan. It's the US, Britain, Australia, and Canada. German forces are in the relatively tranquil northern part of Afghanistan and Kabul, and have steadfastly refused to send troops to the south. The German government also has very heavy caveats to their troops participation in actual combat. Also, 75% of Germans wish to be out of Afghanistan... Don't pretend like Germany, of all countries, is "doing its part," and is a willing participant.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 31):
No. And I have always lived in Europe. Not to mention that I was at a legal voting age and could read newspapers - both, in English and German - when Reagan was elected, as opposed to you who probably was barely toilet trained.

The fact still remains that the majority of Germans hated Ronald Reagan because of his strong words and actions against the Soviets. Don't try to twist this into your personal experience and my lack thereof. I have history books on my side, you have revisionist history.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Falcon84
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:40 pm



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 46):
Has the security situation deteriorated in Afghanistan? Yes, however, I would place more blame on the Pakistani government more than anything else.

Of course yuu would. God knows you're incapable of putting any blame on this president or any Republican entity for that matter. The blame goes squarely on this Administration, for lowering troop levels in Afghanistan, in pursuit of an ill-gotten war in Iraq. That is where the blame lies.

But I guess facts just get in your way, Jcs.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 46):
The fact still remains that the majority of Germans hated Ronald Reagan because of his strong words and actions against the Soviets.

You weren't even around back then, so how the hell would you know? The West Germans were ardently anti-communist, and most of them did like Ronald Reagan. They saw him as a man who stood up for them in the same way that Truman and Kennedy did. They admired him, and were grateful for the strong support he gave them.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
daedaeg
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:43 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 41):
You didnt listen to Europe then and looked how that turned out. Maybe now it the time to - at least - take into consideration what the rest of the world thinks.

Whether one agrees with the war or not, I imagine Americans don't like the condescending attitude from our European friends. I'm not so sure how this will all play out. This trip could very well make Obama look like a weak pacifist in the eyes of many. He can't go over there apologizing for American foreign policy and asking for acceptance. Along with playing nice he should tell Germany and France to pull more of the weight in Afghanistan.
Everyday you're alive is a good day.
 
jcs17
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RE: Europe Awaits Obama With Open Arms

Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:57 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 47):
Of course yuu would. God knows you're incapable of putting any blame on this president or any Republican entity for that matter. The blame goes squarely on this Administration, for lowering troop levels in Afghanistan, in pursuit of an ill-gotten war in Iraq. That is where the blame lies.

But I guess facts just get in your way, Jcs.

Why let facts get in the way of your obsessive Bush/Iraq-bashing? Troop levels were never sacrificed in Afghanistan for higher troop levels in Iraq. That's simply not true and if you ever cared to research your point, you might make a factually correct post or two.

Doesn't it kind of make you shudder to think what Al Gore would've done after 9/11? Think about it for a second and give me a general idea of what you think Msr. Gore would've done.

By the way, I am still waiting for your post reviewing the surge in Iraq and what a failure it was.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 47):
You weren't even around back then, so how the hell would you know? The West Germans were ardently anti-communist, and most of them did like Ronald Reagan. They saw him as a man who stood up for them in the same way that Truman and Kennedy did. They admired him, and were grateful for the strong support he gave them.

The West Germans were ardently anti-Communist, absolutely. However, they did not like Reagan at all. They saw him more as a saber-rattling cowboy, like they see President Boosh.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!

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