jcs17
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"The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:46 am

-- Thaddeus McCotter (R - Michigan)

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecry..._but_GOP_keep_talking.html?showall

I have never been more proud of my GOP affiliation since 2004. Instead of allowing Pelosi to shut-up the chorus, both in Congress and nationwide, my party spoke out. They were heard by die-hards like myself, and will be heard in ads nationwide. Gas prices are hurting Americans. They can't be whisked away with mythical dreams of magic solar farms or water-powered cars in 2008. They need to be solved by shutting-up the speculators and OPEC -- letting them know that America is serious about drilling throughout the US and its waters. America in shale and offshore has twice the Middle East's potential in terms of oil fields. It's time the GOP exposed the fraud that the left has pulled over their eyes.

If Ms. Pelosi feels like this is a winning strategy in the fall. Fine. However, there will be huge consequences, whether the MSM reports on them or not.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Pope
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:19 am



Quoting JCS17 (Thread starter):

If Ms. Pelosi feels like this is a winning strategy in the fall. Fine. However, there will be huge consequences, whether the MSM reports on them or not.

Though I'm not an expert of the history of Speakers - I did spend two summers interning up on the Hill. That being said, I can't think of a less effective, less respected Speaker of the House.

So much for her support of a fairness doctrine so that ideas can be debated - by her actions she's demonstrated that she has absolutely no desire to allow debate if it includes ideas contrary to her own.

She's a rich liberal hypocrite who has accomplished nothing outside of politics. Her own website lists no accomplishments from when she graduated college in 1964 to her election to the House of Representatives in 1989.

Under her leadership, Congress has become openly socialist in its legislative agenda. She uses the power of the state to persecute her enemies and now denies the minority the right to even speak their mind. Where are all our friends on the left who said that the GOP ruled Congress with an iron hand. Did they ever do anything like this?
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:32 am

Quoting JCS17 (Thread starter):

-- Thaddeus McCotter (R - Michigan)



Quoting JCS17 (Thread starter):

I have never been more proud of my GOP affiliation since 2004

And I have never been more embarrassed by my representation in Congress. Thad McCotter is a jerk. His local office is in the same building as my office, and he's just real schmuck.
A political stunt, and not a great one.

[Edited 2008-08-02 04:56:01]
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
RJdxer
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:20 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
And I have never been more embarrassed by my representation in Congress.

More embarrassed than a Speaker who proclaims she is "trying to save the planet!" or refuses to address a major issue that is impacting rich and poor alike? The 5 week August vacation was started in a time before there was air conditioning. There is no real reason for it now except the members like it. I'm all for reducing the number of days Congress is in session to help keep the pork down and hopefully, through lower pay, keep people from making it a career but if there is a major problem facing the country, they need to be there dealing with it.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
AirCop
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:32 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 3):
if there is a major problem facing the country, they need to be there dealing with it.

And what major problem is facing America that can't be dealt with in five weeks?
 
dtwclipper
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:46 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 3):
More embarrassed than a Speaker who proclaims she is "trying to save the planet

No, you're right. They are both schmucks. But, of course I dislike Thad more because he represents our district and I just can't stand him.



But, hey...I'm one of the few folks who actually know who their congressman is!  Wink  Wink
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
RJdxer
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:03 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 4):
And what major problem is facing America that can't be dealt with in five weeks?

How about the annual appropriations bills? Debate on them has largely been shut down by the democratic leadership for fear that republicans would try and attach riders to allow off shore drilling.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpol...p/dems_stop_approps_bills_to_blo_1

http://www.usatoday.com/news/topstories/2008-08-01-2936289071_x.htm

The battle over energy has also largely shuttered the annual appropriations process, the 12 bills funding Cabinet agency budgets that are supposed to be passed by the Oct. 1 start of the 2009 budget year. The House and Senate chairmen of the Appropriations committees shut down panel deliberations to avoid votes on lifting the offshore moratorium, which has been in place for about two decades.

So rather than debate the issues before Congress, the democratic leadership has decided to punt until after the election when they might not have to deal with a pesky republican in the White House.

Unfortunately they did find the time to pass plenty of earmark (read pork barrel) spending.

But the GOP battle against earmarks was a distant memory Friday as the House voted 350-63 against an amendment by Jeff Flake, R-Ariz., to kill the 103 projects that were sought by lawmakers only, including readiness centers, parking garages, fitness centers and chapels.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
AirStairs
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:10 pm

I think that a lot of Representatives are slimy in general, maybe because there are so many that we don't pay too close attention until sexy internet conversations are posted online. I am a bit cynical of all the legislators and their motives but I have to commend them on not just doing it for press at least; cameras weren't allowed in the chambers when this took place and the only people present were those that happened to be at the Capitol.
 
AirCop
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:16 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 6):
How about the annual appropriations bills?

1) it's not October yet
2) the house under the Republican leadership got to know the term "continuing resolutions" quite well.
3) Thanks for giving my Congressman a mention. Although how it can be label a GOP battle when only 63 members of the GOP voted for it, is beyond me.
 
RJdxer
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:22 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 8):
1) it's not October yet

And according to Obey, it will be past October before all the legislation can be passed. So rather than stay and work on it they head for the hills. Now that's responsibility.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 8):
2) the house under the Republican leadership got to know the term "continuing resolutions" quite well.

I did not say it was right for either party to walk away.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 8):
3) Thanks for giving my Congressman a mention. Although how it can be label a GOP battle when only 63 members of the GOP voted for it, is beyond me.

I didn't label it that way, the article did. No matter who voted for it they were wrong. The big difference would be that the democratic party made a point of running on the issue in 2006 and as we see, nothing has changed.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
AirCop
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:08 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 9):
And according to Obey, it will be past October before all the legislation can be passed. So rather than stay and work on it they head for the hills. Now that's responsibility.

And I doubt anyone will notice the difference that the appropriations bills aren't passed by October 1st.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 9):
No matter who voted for it they were wrong.

That should be those that voted against it were wrong..
 
skyservice_330
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:31 pm

We had a similar occurrence here in Ontario once...sort of...in the late 90's. The majority government tried to push through an omnibus bill and a member of the opposition stayed in his seat for, I think overnight, in order to delay the house and protest the move by the government, which he saw as undemocratic.

As for the OP...a pretty lowbrow move...you may not agree with reps. across the aisle, but turning the lights and mics off to shut them up is just plain insulting and disrespectful. Good on the members who stayed and refused to be bullied.
 
Platypus
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:21 pm

From the article:

Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) and other GOP leaders opposed the motion to adjourn the House, arguing that Pelosi's refusal to schedule a vote allowing offshore drilling is hurting the American economy. They have refused to leave the floor after the adjournment motion passed at 11:23 a.m., and they are busy bashing Pelosi and her fellow Democrats for leaving town for the August recess.

There is speculation that Pelosi and friends pulled this stunt, so Obama would not have to vote on this Bill. Which could have exposed Obama's hypocrisy and shollow reasoning for not wanting to drill.

Cheerio
Don't Block the Shot
 
RJdxer
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:51 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 10):
And I doubt anyone will notice the difference that the appropriations bills aren't passed by October 1st.

Not the point.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 10):
That should be those that voted against it were wrong..

So you are for earmark pork barrel projects?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
AirCop
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:44 pm

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 13):

So you are for earmark pork barrel projects?

First of all memories of a fiscally responsible Congress are a little fuzzy and a very distance memory. So it really depends what the project is. Projects for the greater good such as mass transit, medical care etc, I don't have a problem with. Specific projects such as Rep. Rogers (R-Ky) road to nowhere (I-66) or $3,600,000 for Nanotechnology Fuze-on-a-Chip in Eau Claire, Wisconsin (Rep. Obey R-WI) then yes we have a problem. Disclaimer: I used two examples from the Republicans, just to stop people from inferring that this is strictly a Democrat issue.

Quoting Platypus (Reply 12):
From the article:

Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) and other GOP leaders opposed the motion to adjourn the House, arguing that Pelosi's refusal to schedule a vote allowing offshore drilling is hurting the American economy. They have refused to leave the floor after the adjournment motion passed at 11:23 a.m., and they are busy bashing Pelosi and her fellow Democrats for leaving town for the August recess.

There is speculation that Pelosi and friends pulled this stunt, so Obama would not have to vote on this Bill. Which could have exposed Obama's hypocrisy and shollow reasoning for not wanting to drill.

Dear OU812, please remember that Congress and the White House has been under the Republican control had since 2001, yet they failed to pass energy/oil drilling measures while they were in charge.

Additional: RJ here is the link for $141million of defense earmarks for the State of Texas.
http://earmarkwatch.org/2008-house-defense/search/?state=TX

[Edited 2008-08-02 12:50:10]
 
Platypus
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:14 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
Dear OU812, please remember that Congress and the White House has been under the Republican control had since 2001, yet they failed to pass energy/oil drilling measures while they were in charge.

The Republicans were being proactive and tried pushing legislation to drill in Anwar, but didn't get enough votes. Looks like the Republicans were ahead of the curve and had the right idea. If Pelosi would allow a vote, it just may pass now. But, we all know she can't let that happen and help middle America for purely politically expedient reasons!!!

Gotta love this new Democrat controlled congress. It's no wonder why they have the lowest approval ratings in history. Their numbers are even lower than Bush's.

 rotfl 

Cheerio
Don't Block the Shot
 
AirCop
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:24 pm



Quoting Platypus (Reply 15):
The Republicans were being proactive and tried pushing legislation to drill in Anwar, but didn't get enough votes.

A significant number of Republicans (but McCain in that group) voted against the drilling in ANWAR. Even if they did vote for drilling, I will be long retired before any of the oil make it to the market in the US if the estimate of 10 years is correct.
 
seb146
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:03 pm

First, Pelosi called a vote, it passed, house in recess. What's to argue? I notice no Republicans up in arms when Democrats were holding a get-together and (I believe) Sensenbrenner came and shut it down, even though he had no reason to. Democrats were not in the majority, no one was sworn in. It was just a bunch of people (headed by Democrats) meeting in a basement room of the Capital.

Second: Why is everyone so gung-ho on oil? Why can we not find ways to run cars on something besides oil? Doesn't anyone realize that if the United States starts putting oil on the market, OPEC will decrease production and the oil the US puts on the market will probably go to China and India and not help anyone in the Untied States except ExxonMobil? I think that is a very good reason to vote down any more drilling.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
jcs17
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:22 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 16):

A significant number of Republicans (but McCain in that group) voted against the drilling in ANWAR. Even if they did vote for drilling, I will be long retired before any of the oil make it to the market in the US if the estimate of 10 years is correct.

That's not the point at all. If the US announced they were drilling offshore, in ANWR, in the shale of the Rockies, or wherever, the price would come down significantly. The US has as much potential oil as the Middle East. With the prospect of a vastly improved supply, there would be little to justify huge increases in price as we have seen recently. In fact, oil could go back to around $50 a barrel. Furthermore, the US would be less reliant on OPEC, Mexico, Brazil and Venezuela in the future which is fantastic for national security, but also adds to American jobs.

The sad thing is that we would be a lot closer to energy security and prices would be vastly lower right now if Clinton hadn't signed an EO banning offshore/ANWR drilling -- as those "10 years" would've culminated today.

It's the Democrats who believe that America can somehow live off a European model of $8.00 per gas, where the country takes motorscooters, smartcars, and mass transit to work. It's simply asinine since America is infrastructure outside huge cities was not built that way.

Again, Pelosi pulled this shit at the Democrats own peril. It's going to look very bad to John Q. Public.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Platypus
Posts: 131
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:26 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 16):
A significant number of Republicans (but McCain in that group) voted against the drilling in ANWAR

However, McCain changed his tune when he saw the necessity to do so, when a gallon of gas exceeded $4.00 per gallon, and was not for high gas prices as was Obama, who literally endorsed high fuel prices.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 16):
Even if they did vote for drilling, I will be long retired before any of the oil make it to the market in the US if the estimate of 10 years is correct.

So it's all about you now , hah! Screw the younger people, like your son who's in College! If the bill passed back when the rep. held congress, we could be benefiting from domestic oil drilling at this very moment. So, in essence, you and Obama want to continue making the same mistake over and over again, while over nations ie China gobble up our oil in the Gulf.

Cheerio
Don't Block the Shot
 
RJdxer
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:30 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
First of all memories of a fiscally responsible Congress are a little fuzzy and a very distance memory.

Perhaps I was not clear. It doesn't make any difference who is in charge or who tries to attach ear marks. The majority are attached to bills and never ever debated on the floor as to their merit.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
So it really depends what the project is. Projects for the greater good such as mass transit, medical care etc, I don't have a problem with.

Of which those earmarks should be able to be passed as part of a regular budget or they should be debated on the merits of each. Not tucked in as a rider on some other bill.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
Disclaimer: I used two examples from the Republicans, just to stop people from inferring that this is strictly a Democrat issue.

Sure you did.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
yet they failed to pass energy/oil drilling measures while they were in charge.

A 2/3rds majority is needed to get the legislation forward in the Senate by ending debate. The GOP never had that so just being in charge does not automatically mean you get what you want. What it does mean is that you get to set the legislative agenda for which Obey and Pelosi have done so, by making sure a vote on offshore drilling never comes up.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 17):
Why can we not find ways to run cars on something besides oil?

Lets hear it. What is the miracle power source/lubricant that is going to replace oil/coal/gas in all their varied forms in the next 10 years. While we are waiting for your answer you don't mind if those of us who don't want to wait go ahead and drill for more of what we know works do you?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
AirCop
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:43 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 20):
A 2/3rds majority is needed to get the legislation forward in the Senate by ending debate

Sixty votes is all it requires, not 2/3rds.

Quoting Platypus (Reply 19):
Screw the younger people, like your son who's in College! I

So now you're lowering yourself to attacking family members. You're just a class act. Actually, he's the future, already working on research projects to new sources of power..I have recall, when you were OU812 you stated you work at a minimum wage job in New Jersey, so the US needs individuals that actually willing to study science etc.to help develop new technology.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 20):
Sure you did.

So you're calling me a liar?

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 20):
Of which those earmarks should be able to be passed as part of a regular budget or they should be debated on the merits of each. Not tucked in as a rider on some other bill.

Then why don't you run for Congress, if you hate the present process so much.
 
T773ER
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:00 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 17):
Second: Why is everyone so gung-ho on oil? Why can we not find ways to run cars on something besides oil? Doesn't anyone realize that if the United States starts putting oil on the market, OPEC will decrease production and the oil the US puts on the market will probably go to China and India and not help anyone in the Untied States except ExxonMobil? I think that is a very good reason to vote down any more drilling.

How our we going to convert tens of millions of cars to run on something not even created yet in anytime kind of reasonable time line to ruduce our current demand for oil. Not to mention all the infrastructure needed to produce and store this magical cure-all. This is such a naive and ignorant comment many liberals like yourself like to argue.

If the United States were just to state that we were intent on drilling and searching for more oil, many people believe that 30-40 dollars would be knocked of the price of light crude overnight due to all the speculators jumping ship.
"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man."
 
dc863
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:06 pm

I see a huge backlash against the Dems in the next 2 years. This take into account an Obama victory in Nov. The Dems and Obama are in for a quite a fall from grace.
 
RJdxer
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:36 am



Quoting AirCop (Reply 21):
Sixty votes is all it requires, not 2/3rds.

I stand corrected, but a super majority just the same and not something the GOP had in the Senate in the past 20 years.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 21):
So you're calling me a liar?

You said that not me. I just question your pointing out 2 GOP members instead of splitting. I never inferred that it was just a democratic party issue other than they are in charge and as such set the legislative agenda. They also ran on a plank of doing away with ear mark legislation and yet when the time comes to put up or shut up, regardless of what the GOP members do, they sat down and shut up. Take it as you will but those are the facts as the vote tally shows.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 21):
Then why don't you run for Congress, if you hate the present process so much.

So I could be 1 out of 435? I'd rather find someone else who believes in my views who wants to go there and tilt at windmills.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
doug_or
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:52 am



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 17):
First, Pelosi called a vote, it passed, house in recess. What's to argue? I notice no Republicans up in arms when Democrats were holding a get-together and (I believe) Sensenbrenner came and shut it down, even though he had no reason to. Democrats were not in the majority, no one was sworn in. It was just a bunch of people (headed by Democrats) meeting in a basement room of the Capital.

Strange that the only response to this has been the faint chirping of crickets.

Oh well, another day another grandstanding political stunt.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
Blackbird
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:27 am

I'd have to agree that the solution to this problem is not green-energy but to stop the oil-speculators -- they're the ones driving up the prices of oil (Not that we shouldn't devise ways to reduce our dependance on oil)

The problem I really have with Pelosi though and Democrat leadership is that they will not allow Bush and Cheney to be impeached. The reason for an impeachment at this point is to make an example of Bush and Cheney and tell any future president that Congress will not let them get away with crap like that again.

Failure to do so will likely tell future presidents that they can do at *LEAST* all the crap Bush and Cheney did, and possibly more. I'm not fond of making examples of people, but sometimes it has to be done (and in this case it would be completely fair -- he would simply be removed from office, and would suffer no legal punishment of any kind)


Andrea Kent

BTW: How much of a majority do the democrats have in the House and Senate? Because as much as I dislike some of the actions the Democrats are doing, the Republicans are WAY, *WAY* worse in power.
 
AirCop
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:35 am



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 28):
BTW: How much of a majority do the democrats have in the House and Senate?

The Senate is 49-49 with two independents aligning themselves with the Democrats, therefore it's 51-49. The House is 236-199 in favor of the Democrats.
 
seb146
Posts: 13772
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:36 am



Quoting T773ER (Reply 22):
How our we going to convert tens of millions of cars to run on something not even created yet in anytime kind of reasonable time line to ruduce our current demand for oil. Not to mention all the infrastructure needed to produce and store this magical cure-all. This is such a naive and ignorant comment many liberals like yourself like to argue.

How about, along with drilling for oil, there be a law that states companies must be active in looking for alternatives? How about giving bigger incentives to companies developing alternatives? How about really acting like the main focus IS getting off oil?

All I have been hearing is: "Let's drill for oil! We must drill for oil NOW!"

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 28):
BTW: How much of a majority do the democrats have in the House and Senate?

I think they have a one vote margin in the Senate and a very slim majority in the House as well. I know the majorities are not enough to override a veto (yet).
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
Falcon84
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:47 am



Quoting Pope (Reply 1):
So much for her support of a fairness doctrine so that ideas can be debated - by her actions she's demonstrated that she has absolutely no desire to allow debate if it includes ideas contrary to her own.

Sounds like nothing has changes since 1994, when the GOP took over the Congress. You had the GOP doing exactly the same thing you critsize Pelosi for doing-shutting off debate, and not letting the minority have a voice.

It was wrong under Newt and Hastert, and it's wrong under Pelosi. Unfortunately, both sides have lost the desire to compromise, i.e., the "art of the posible", in getting the nations' business done. Pelosi has done no better than the GOP predecessors before her.

But, to say she's the worst, when, in fact, she's about the same as those since 1994 who ran the House and Senate for the GOP, is grandstanding in the most hypocritical way.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
r OU812, please remember that Congress and the White House has been under the Republican control had since 2001, yet they failed to pass energy/oil drilling measures while they were in charge.

Again, Platy/OU812 (gotta be the same guy. Sounds like the same child), can't be bothered with facts when it comes to his brown-nosing the GOP.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
T773ER
Posts: 232
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:08 am



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
How about, along with drilling for oil, there be a law that states companies must be active in looking for alternatives? How about giving bigger incentives to companies developing alternatives? How about really acting like the main focus IS getting off oil?

All I have been hearing is: "Let's drill for oil! We must drill for oil NOW!"

I agree, but in the meantime we need to start exploring for more oil. It maybe a temporary fix, but one that will last for atleast 10-20 years.
"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man."
 
Falcon84
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:16 am



Quoting T773ER (Reply 32):
I agree, but in the meantime we need to start exploring for more oil. It maybe a temporary fix, but one that will last for atleast 10-20 years.

It's not unreasonable to go after some domestic oil, but it cannot be the ba-all and end-all, or the lynchpin of a comprehensive energy polcy. And, listening to the President, that seems to be what he wants-drill, drill, drill, and forget everything else. That's my objection to the Administration's plan, and to the GOP plan-it's too top-heavy on oil, and everything else seems to be an afterthought.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
T773ER
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:13 am

RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:36 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 32):
It's not unreasonable to go after some domestic oil, but it cannot be the ba-all and end-all, or the lynchpin of a comprehensive energy polcy. And, listening to the President, that seems to be what he wants-drill, drill, drill, and forget everything else. That's my objection to the Administration's plan, and to the GOP plan-it's too top-heavy on oil, and everything else seems to be an afterthought.

Again I agree, oil will not and cannot be the "end-all" energy solution for the US. However, as previously mentioned by you, going after some domestic oil can help relieve some of the current pain we feel at the pumps. But until we replace oil with something that is safe, readily available, and more efficient, we will continue depend on the thing everybody loves to hate. I do think that in the meantime though we should be looking for a replacement, something that is currently being done. And most likely the government isn’t going to find the replacement, but more likely a private group or individual.
"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man."
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:50 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 29):
Again, Platy/OU812 (gotta be the same guy. Sounds like the same child), can't be bothered with facts when it comes to his brown-nosing the GOP.

Neither can you evidently.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 31):
And, listening to the President, that seems to be what he wants-drill, drill, drill, and forget everything else.

Yep, forget about his sinking federal funds into hydrogen cell research. Pay no attention to what he is making available today. He only reiterated it in your own town.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/energy/
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3400
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:09 am



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 17):

Second: Why is everyone so gung-ho on oil? Why can we not find ways to run cars on something besides oil? Doesn't anyone realize that if the United States starts putting oil on the market, OPEC will decrease production and the oil the US puts on the market will probably go to China and India and not help anyone in the Untied States except ExxonMobil? I think that is a very good reason to vote down any more drilling.

OPEC wants the prices lower and the high prices actually hurt them as conservation increases, they want the price at around $85 per barrel. They basically tricked us after the 70's oil embargo and when we all rationed and conserved they dropped the price and then the SUV/Truck bubble started and the cheap oil fed that until the late 90's. Europe and Brazil learned from that while North America failed to.

They could cut production or they could not if the US gets significant offshore reserves but what will happen when that time comes is that oil is not going to stay in the US because the oil companies are going to export that oil to the more lucrative Chinese and Indian markets and the only way for the American people to keep it is to outbid them which means little to no control on the price. Obama has said this numerous times and he gets torn apart because guess what it is the truth.

This is happening already in Canada (we have enough oil for 32 million people ourselves) and our government is letting everyone take our oil for basically the mining costs and the cut they get and the Canadian people pay the market prices and the ironic part is prices are lower in Ontario than in Alberta.

Quoting T773ER (Reply 22):
How our we going to convert tens of millions of cars to run on something not even created yet in anytime kind of reasonable time line to ruduce our current demand for oil. Not to mention all the infrastructure needed to produce and store this magical cure-all. This is such a naive and ignorant comment many liberals like yourself like to argue.

It doesn't have to be done all at once but a start is to being selling what they have now such as the Honda Civic GX which you could fill at most homes and make pretty much everything hybrid or plug-in hybrid which is a technology that is quite popular and growing fast. The auto companies have the concepts and need to work to gradually introduce these new vehicles at their primary ones while people turn in their old gas cars.

Baby steps work for something like this and it will be the downfall of human society if we continue to think in short term and not look at long term gradual solutions. This doesn't have to be done tomorrow but we should have started 30 years ago, and yes oil prices might go down tomorrow but in the long run they will continue to go up.

Something like what T. Boone Pickens is proposing is just a start.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:19 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 29):

Sounds like nothing has changes since 1994, when the GOP took over the Congress. You had the GOP doing exactly the same thing you critsize Pelosi for doing-shutting off debate, and not letting the minority have a voice.

Please tell us when the GOP turned off the lights on House Democrats.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 29):
But, to say she's the worst, when, in fact, she's about the same as those since 1994 who ran the House and Senate for the GOP, is grandstanding in the most hypocritical way.

Your nearsightedness when it comes to history is laughable. The GOP controlled Congress for 10 years since the mid-1950's. How long have Democrats controlled Congress for in the same time period? If anything the GOP's actions during their relatively short lived control of the legislative branch is retribution for over 50 years of Democrat totalitarianism. That doesn't in any way justify it but it does explain the mindset. But I thought Speaker Pelosi said that the Democrats were going to rise above this and usher in a new era of accountability in Congress. I guess that was one more empty political promise. Speaker Pelosi's tenure has been an abject failure. She's not been able to push through a single legislative agenda item on its own merits. Her sole accomplishment was tacking on a minimum wage increase to an Iraq war funding bill.

I don't understand how Democrat voters continue to tolerate the incompetence of its leadership.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:48 pm



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 18):
It's the Democrats who believe that America can somehow live off a European model of $8.00 per gas, where the country takes motorscooters, smartcars, and mass transit to work. It's simply asinine since America is infrastructure outside huge cities was not built that way.

Then let's be proactive and build it that way instead of placing temporary patches on the problem like increased drilling. It will cost more at the outset, but it will make things a lot better when the next oil price rise hits (and it will - there is no way that global supply can keep up with increasing global demand).

Quoting Pope (Reply 35):
Please tell us when the GOP turned off the lights on House Democrats.

"Sensenbrenner's iron-fisted rule of the judiciary committee was on nationwide display last year during a televised debate over reauthorization of the Patriot Act. When Democrats began discussing the treatment of detainees at Guantanamo, the chairman abruptly ended the meeting and cut off their microphones. When Democrats refused to leave the room, Sensenbrenner's staff pulled the plug on C-Span and turned out the lights."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...2054520/the_10_worst_congressmen/2

To be fair, immediately following that line is one in which Pelosi calls that action disgraceful.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:10 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 36):
Quoting Pope (Reply 35):
Please tell us when the GOP turned off the lights on House Democrats.

"Sensenbrenner's iron-fisted rule of the judiciary committee was on nationwide display last year during a televised debate over reauthorization of the Patriot Act. When Democrats began discussing the treatment of detainees at Guantanamo, the chairman abruptly ended the meeting and cut off their microphones. When Democrats refused to leave the room, Sensenbrenner's staff pulled the plug on C-Span and turned out the lights."

Happy, Pope?  rotfl  But I'm sure that was all justified, eh?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
MaidensGator
Posts: 848
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:02 pm

RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:37 pm



Quoting AirStairs (Reply 7):
I think that a lot of Representatives are slimy in general,

Ya think maybe?????

Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
First of all memories of a fiscally responsible Congress are a little fuzzy and a very distance memory.

You must be older than me, because I've never seen a fiscally responsible Congress. That's almost an oxymoron...

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 17):
Why is everyone so gung-ho on oil? Why can we not find ways to run cars on something besides oil? Doesn't anyone realize that if the United States starts putting oil on the market, OPEC will decrease production and the oil the US puts on the market will probably go to China and India and not help anyone in the Untied States except ExxonMobil? I think that is a very good reason to vote down any more drilling.

Even if all newly drilled oil was exported, it would bring down the price. More supply, plus the exports would strengthen the dollar, which happens to be what oil is priced in...

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 28):
How about, along with drilling for oil, there be a law that states companies must be active in looking for alternatives?

Could you tell me what part of the Constitution allows Congress to mandate what private companies must research...

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 28):
How about giving bigger incentives to companies developing alternatives?

This is a good idea...

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 34):
They could cut production or they could not if the US gets significant offshore reserves but what will happen when that time comes is that oil is not going to stay in the US because the oil companies are going to export that oil to the more lucrative Chinese and Indian markets and the only way for the American people to keep it is to outbid them which means little to no control on the price. Obama has said this numerous times and he gets torn apart because guess what it is the truth.

It's not even close to the truth. More supply on the market lowers prices...

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 34):
This is happening already in Canada (we have enough oil for 32 million people ourselves) and our government is letting everyone take our oil for basically the mining costs and the cut they get and the Canadian people pay the market prices and the ironic part is prices are lower in Ontario than in Alberta.

Hell, you pay a lot more than we do in the US. Evidently you think it's ok to be screwed by you government...
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:50 pm



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 38):
Quoting Seb146 (Reply 28):
How about, along with drilling for oil, there be a law that states companies must be active in looking for alternatives?

Could you tell me what part of the Constitution allows Congress to mandate what private companies must research...

The federal government is entirely within its boundaries to require that companies conduct research into alternative energy in order to recieve permits for oil drilling on non-private land.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:35 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 37):

Happy, Pope? But I'm sure that was all justified, eh?

Once again you show your ignorance. Let's read what the very next paragraph of the cited article says:

Quote:

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi called Sensenbrenner's abuse of power "disgraceful." But Democrats should take heart: The GOP chairman is an equal-opportunity bully. "He treats us all equally," says Rep. Dan Lungren (R-Calif.). "He treats us all like dogs."

So here we have a couple of things to point out:

1. Nancy Pelosi is a hypocrite.

2. The action wasn't targeted a democrats as his own party's membership called him a bully and complained how they were treated.

3. None of that occurred on the House floor.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
MaidensGator
Posts: 848
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:02 pm

RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:04 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 39):
Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 38):
Quoting Seb146 (Reply 28):
How about, along with drilling for oil, there be a law that states companies must be active in looking for alternatives?

Could you tell me what part of the Constitution allows Congress to mandate what private companies must research...

The federal government is entirely within its boundaries to require that companies conduct research into alternative energy in order to recieve permits for oil drilling on non-private land.

That's not what the post I responded to suggested. Either way, it probably wouldn't work for achieving the desired goal. Alternative energy sources will arrive when the market dictates. When oil simply costs too much, then alternatives may become economical. Tying a research requirement to oil leases would simply add more cost to the crude and ultimately the refined product. Enforcing such a requirement would be unduly burdensome.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm all in favor of alternative energy sources. It's just that there is no way that any government can legislate the technology. Private industry is looking for alternatives because if somebody can discover a new viable energy source, they'll make a fortune. Like most major advances in history, the economics will determine when and how we lower our dependence on oil...
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3400
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:12 am



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 38):
It's not even close to the truth. More supply on the market lowers prices...

Most times yes but it supply and demand can and is trumped by consumers willing to overbid for a specific thing and China will do that in a heartbeat if it means the control the US oil reserves and Exxon will take the bait because it means more money for them.

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 38):
Hell, you pay a lot more than we do in the US. Evidently you think it's ok to be screwed by you government...

Taxes aside (weather or not we are being screwed by our governments is our business) we would still pay just as much as everyone who pays the market price for gas and we have more than enough to meet our needs, our taxes are still placed on top the market price.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
AirStairs
Posts: 390
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:47 am

RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:48 am



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 28):
How about, along with drilling for oil, there be a law that states companies must be active in looking for alternatives?

Okay, but when the first company develops a new, proprietary process and patents it you will be up in arms about corporate greed and profiteering. Or is there R&D work now public property?

Quoting Mir (Reply 39):
The federal government is entirely within its boundaries to require that companies conduct research into alternative energy in order to recieve permits for oil drilling on non-private land.

Which paves the way for dummy funds and research. How can you require that the compulsory research is of a certain standard? But again, even if it was substantive work that came to a viable solution, don't think that an Exxon or ConocoPhilips is going to simply give it away.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 34):
OPEC wants the prices lower and the high prices actually hurt them as conservation increases

This is true; but,

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 34):
if the US gets significant offshore reserves but what will happen when that time comes is that oil is not going to stay in the US because the oil companies are going to export that oil to the more lucrative Chinese and Indian markets and the only way for the American people to keep it is to outbid them which means little to no control on the price.

this is not. Do you really think OPEC is going to simply give up a chokehold on China and India? It's simply not going to happen; the cartel has economies of scale that the US will never have which allows them to undercut US prices. Furthermore it is apparent to every energy company in the world that the United States is the largest energy consumer per capita, that with a significant population. Even middle class Chinese and Indians are vastly poorer their American counterparts. There is huge money to be made here and oil will continue to flow where money does.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 42):
Most times yes but it supply and demand can and is trumped by consumers willing to overbid for a specific thing and China will do that in a heartbeat if it means the control the US oil reserves and Exxon will take the bait because it means more money for them.

The bulk of Chinese consumers, like I've said, are very significantly poorer than the average American. They cannot afford to "bid up," and so as the price rises so do the PBC's costs of subsidizing. A scenario in which oil is expensive and the dollar is cheap hurts China's competitiveness greatly, as export revenues take a beating and their own dollar reserves lose value.

If it simply became a state of emergency, the US could temporarily ban oil exports but with a nasty effect on foreign relationships.
 
MaidensGator
Posts: 848
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:02 pm

RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:55 am



Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 42):
Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 38):
It's not even close to the truth. More supply on the market lowers prices...

Most times yes but it supply and demand can and is trumped by consumers willing to overbid for a specific thing and China will do that in a heartbeat if it means the control the US oil reserves and Exxon will take the bait because it means more money for them.

China can't do that for long, and if you think China is even close to controlling US oil reserves, you should check your facts. China is already feeling the pinch of these higher oil prices and lowering the government subsidy on fuel for the consumers. Plus, you ignored what I said about the weakness of the dollar. Canada's dollar is very high right now mainly because of your oil exports. Your government is trying to bring your currency down. It's not good for you in the long run if it's at parity with the USD. If the US drilled more and exported all of it, the USD would rise lowering the price of oil, and at the same time push the CAD down which would help your economy.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 42):
Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 38):
Hell, you pay a lot more than we do in the US. Evidently you think it's ok to be screwed by you government...

Taxes aside (weather or not we are being screwed by our governments is our business) we would still pay just as much as everyone who pays the market price for gas and we have more than enough to meet our needs, our taxes are still placed on top the market price.

I know it's the taxes. I spend a lot of time in Canada. The people I know up there think it's outrageous that you as a country are a net oil exporter yet you pay so much more for gas than we do in the US. I was there a couple months ago, and even with oil up and the USD down, gas was about a dollar a gallon more in Canada than the US.

Oh, and don't take it personally that I said you're being screwed by your government. You sound a little defensive. There's a lot I like about Canada as much or more than the US. I have no qualms about telling you the US government screws me on taxes, but every time I go to Canada, I'm shocked by how much higher your taxes are on everything.
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:20 am



Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 42):
Taxes aside (weather or not we are being screwed by our governments is our business) we would still pay just as much as everyone who pays the market price for gas and we have more than enough to meet our needs, our taxes are still placed on top the market price.

True, Whether your government is fucking you or not is your business.

But please don't make the mistake that some of our colleagues do of saying how the yanks are always bitching about the price, look what we pay and we're not complaining. That's fool's thinking. A discussion about tax burdens and whether they're fairly allotted is of course conditioned on your willingness to pay them. But as a comparison to anything else it's specious because, as you say, your willingness to pay whatever exactions your government cares to demand of you is your business.

Instead Mr AC17, try this.

Look at what the cost of gasoline futures are on the merc. On the 28th it was $3.03 a gallon for RBOB.

anything above $3.03 is tax burden. make of it what you will.

il,-gasoline-futures-prices-drop-on-US-market/" target=_blank>http://www.ogj.com/display_article/3...-futures-prices-drop-on-US-market/
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3400
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RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:46 am



Quoting AirStairs (Reply 43):
The bulk of Chinese consumers, like I've said, are very significantly poorer than the average American. They cannot afford to "bid up," and so as the price rises so do the PBC's costs of subsidizing. A scenario in which oil is expensive and the dollar is cheap hurts China's competitiveness greatly, as export revenues take a beating and their own dollar reserves lose value.

Right now they can't but there is 1.3 billion people in China and and another 1 billion people in India compared to 300 million in the US. Also add on the fact that their economies are growing 10-15% per year they will be using at some point and I bet sooner than later several times the amount of oil that the US while maybe still remaining at a lower per capita level.

Their numbers will be their major factor in shifting the demand causing OPEC and North America to strive to the Chinese market making their own compete with them.

Quoting AirStairs (Reply 43):

If it simply became a state of emergency, the US could temporarily ban oil exports but with a nasty effect on foreign relationships.

This is the main reason that none of your politicians will never touch NAFTA with a 10 foot pole because the first thing Canada is going to demand is the right to be able to cut exports if needed which we can't do unless they cut it domestically. That is where most of your imported oil comes from and your media fails to inform the American people of that fact as they keep saying that it comes from the mid east.

Also I bet its a good reason that a pipeline to our west coast isn't in place yet.

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 44):
I know it's the taxes. I spend a lot of time in Canada. The people I know up there think it's outrageous that you as a country are a net oil exporter yet you pay so much more for gas than we do in the US. I was there a couple months ago, and even with oil up and the USD down, gas was about a dollar a gallon more in Canada than the US.

Oh, and don't take it personally that I said you're being screwed by your government. You sound a little defensive. There's a lot I like about Canada as much or more than the US. I have no qualms about telling you the US government screws me on taxes, but every time I go to Canada, I'm shocked by how much higher your taxes are on everything.

The defensive reaction comes from the opinions of other posters and even my relatives in the US that hear we have all these oil reserves and the automatic expectation that we have it cheap when we concur the complaints they have. When they discover because our prices are higher we are automatically getting screwed and I was trying to say that without the taxes which are doubled in some provinces as the GST is added on the provincial and federal taxes we still pay the world price.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:02 am



Quoting Pope (Reply 40):
1. Nancy Pelosi is a hypocrite.

And you can put your name in big letter; "POPE" right next to hers, because you're blasting Pelosi and not Sensenbrenner! Welcome to the club, my friend!
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
seb146
Posts: 13772
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:18 am



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 38):
Could you tell me what part of the Constitution allows Congress to mandate what private companies must research...

What part of the constitution mandates that corporations MUST drill for oil?

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 38):
Even if all newly drilled oil was exported, it would bring down the price. More supply, plus the exports would strengthen the dollar, which happens to be what oil is priced in...

Not exactly. To keep prices at this level or higher, supplies must be lowered. OPEC (the major supplier of oil) must reduce production levels. That would keep supplies at this level or lower depending on how fast oil can be put on the market. Also, how would oil pumped by American companies and put into Chinese gas tanks make things better for the average American?

Quoting AirStairs (Reply 43):
Okay, but when the first company develops a new, proprietary process and patents it you will be up in arms about corporate greed and profiteering. Or is there R&D work now public property?

History has shown that sharing infomation makes things better. Look at how many Betamax machines were sold. How much money was made on VHS format?

Quoting Pope (Reply 40):
1. Nancy Pelosi is a hypocrite.

How? She called a vote, the vote passed. Sensenbrenner, on the other hand, adjourned a gathering that had not even been called to order. The gathering was not even on any agenda and not even a part of anything government related except to discuss Iraq, IIRC. It was nothing formal Sensenbrenner got upset about.

Quoting Pope (Reply 40):
3. None of that occurred on the House floor.

No. Again, it was only a gathering. As per House rules, the minority party can not call hearings and have formal rules and can not even be called to order or swear in speakers.

Quoting Pope (Reply 40):
2. The action wasn't targeted a democrats as his own party's membership called him a bully and complained how they were treated.

How many other Republicans said Sensenbrenner was bad? I am sure a few Democrats were not happy with Pelosi. There are a few "rebels." It happens. There were probably those within their own parties that did not want Tip O'Neill, Newt Gingrich, or Dennis Hastert.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
AirStairs
Posts: 390
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:47 am

RE: "The People's House, Not Pelosi's Politburo!"

Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:44 am



Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 46):
Their numbers will be their major factor in shifting the demand causing OPEC and North America to strive to the Chinese market making their own compete with them.

But this exact "striving to the Chinese market" is what makes prices lower. Everyone wants the market share but it is undebatable that OPEC has astronomically more resources and pricing power than do firms in other countries (except maybe Russia). It is significantly more advantageous for OPEC and its members to lock in a high volume and take a marginal hit on price.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 46):
This is the main reason that none of your politicians will never touch NAFTA with a 10 foot pole

As they shouldn't.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 48):
Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 38):
Could you tell me what part of the Constitution allows Congress to mandate what private companies must research...

What part of the constitution mandates that corporations MUST drill for oil?

The inquiry is not about what part of the Constitution mandates what private companies must research, but what part of the Constitution ALLOWS that a Congressional mandate on said activity exist.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 48):
To keep prices at this level or higher, supplies must be lowered. OPEC (the major supplier of oil) must reduce production levels. That would keep supplies at this level or lower depending on how fast oil can be put on the market. Also, how would oil pumped by American companies and put into Chinese gas tanks make things better for the average American?

The kind of "super-high" oil pricing we are now seeing is not all that advantageous to OPEC as it erodes market share and depresses demand. It does not matter where oil comes from, a larger market and (even if it is just perceived) security of supply will depress futures.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 48):
History has shown that sharing infomation makes things better. Look at how many Betamax machines were sold. How much money was made on VHS format?

I have no doubts that a new process will become standardized, but I think that in large part it depends on what the solution ends up becoming. If it is a dream biofuel that could run on a standard or lightly modified engine, be easily transported and at a cheaper cost, there is little incentive to share. On the other hand, if it is a kind of entirely revamped engine model, it is not going to be all that advantageous for a company to hold on to it as the market will be much smaller and less efficient for them.

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