Falcon84
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Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:45 pm

And, another scum of the earth, who thought God would reward him for murdering people, is now explaining his misdeeds to Allah.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapc.../08/03/terrorist.killed/index.html

Yes, others may take his place, but damn it does feel good when one of these major scumbags is blown into a million pieces.
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Confuscius
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:48 pm

This is the second time this guy has been killed!
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RJdxer
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:11 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Yes, others may take his place, but damn it does feel good when one of these major scumbags is blown into a million pieces.

Considering we had to violate another countries sovereignty, especially when they have asked us not too, I'm surprised you're not outraged.  sarcastic 
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
flexo
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:14 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
damn it does feel good when one of these major scumbags is blown into a million pieces.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 
It indeed does, let's hope for more succesful strikes like these.
 
johns624
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:07 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 2):
Considering we had to violate another countries sovereignty, especially when they have asked us not too, I'm surprised you're not outraged.

Well, when that country can't, or won't, do anything, you have to do it yourselves.
 
Blackbird
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:25 pm

That sounds like good news, which is so rare these days.


Blackbird
 
Falcon84
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:12 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 2):
Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Yes, others may take his place, but damn it does feel good when one of these major scumbags is blown into a million pieces.

Considering we had to violate another countries sovereignty, especially when they have asked us not too, I'm surprised you're not outraged.

Sounds like no matter what I thnk on anything, you have to bitch about it. You need a life.
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MaidensGator
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:15 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
Quoting RJdxer (Reply 2):
Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Yes, others may take his place, but damn it does feel good when one of these major scumbags is blown into a million pieces.

Considering we had to violate another countries sovereignty, especially when they have asked us not too, I'm surprised you're not outraged.

Sounds like no matter what I thnk on anything, you have to bitch about it. You need a life.

But not me Falcon, I agree with your OP 100%...  Wow!
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
GuitrThree
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:21 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
Sounds like no matter what I thnk on anything, you have to bitch about it.

Not me. I thinks it's cool that someone who is totally against the war still see the positives that we are doing, and how Iraq and Al Qaeda house some of the worlds worst, and when they are eliminated it is a good, no, very good thing.

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 5):
That sounds like good news, which is so rare these days.

Well, when you listen to the mainstream media and most of the democrats beating the negativity drum over and over again to attempt to win the Nov elections, it's no wonder you think good news is so rare. Go do some real research on the surge and its success and you might think otherwise about good news being so rare.
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Beaucaire
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:22 pm

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...hwWoYKs6rGaN0gfRXIWLhCbQQD92A7PLO0
just to add some more information tied to the raid
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:10 pm

I think nobody in his right mind will not see the necessity of the war in Afghanistan and possibly Pakistan. There might be arguments about the tactics used, but there exists a consense about the necessity of preventing another lawless country, where the Al Qaeda terrorists can set up shop.
I wish my own government will show a bit more initiative (BTW, also with fighting pirates, at the moment the German navy is not allowed to act against pirates, except if they are directly attacked themselves, since piratesare considered ordinary criminals and the German military is explicitely banned by law from carrying out law enforcement operations. IMO it would be easy to post an officer of the federal police on board of a German warship, e.g. off thecoast of Somalia and let the sailors operate in hissupport, while he fullfills the role of law enforcement officer.) in Afghanistan, but I think any operation there must be two pronged, on one hand ruthlessly fighting the Taliban while protecting the civilian population and improving their living conditions, so that they see a bright future without the Taliban.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
AirStairs
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:21 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
Sounds like no matter what I thnk on anything, you have to bitch about it. You need a life.

Uhm not to ride you on it or anything, because in a forum like this I pay more attention to the argument than the personalities, ego, all that stuff, but you have made it pretty clear that you think it's unacceptable to violate sovereignty even in the United States' interest (if I were more patient with the a.net search engine I would have found them; but, I think we can agree that you've said this.) I personally think that it's a fine line to toe but the Pakistanis are really a mess at this point (the fragile government, I can't speak to the people), and just not in a position to carry out an obviously exigent task like this. Sure, they probably should have been notified beforehand, but who knows what the circumstances were leading up to this?

In thinking, I was erroneously attributing some other points to you that actually were not yours, but I dug them up anyway and I suppose this news counters another user's arguments that:

Quote:
Quoting D L X (Reply 26):
We are unable to fight the war in the place we SHOULD be fighting because we are overcommitted in Iraq. FACT, soldier.



Quote:
Quoting D L X (Reply 28):
Our forces need to be working with the Pakistanis, and they can't do that when they're in Iraq.

 
RJdxer
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:59 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
Sounds like no matter what I thnk on anything, you have to bitch about it. You need a life.

When you say things that directly contradict points you've laboriously made over and over again in other posts about other situations in the war on terror you bet. When you decry GOP efforts to open up offshore drilling right up until your man says "well maybe it would ok to drill in conjunction with" which has essentially been the GOP line all along you bet. You are defining the word hypocrite as of late.

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 7):
But not me Falcon, I agree with your OP 100%

I agree it's good that the AQ member was killed. Launching missiles into Pakistan might not be the best way to go about it. It's a pretty public display when the situation politically certainly calls for as much finesse as possible.

Quoting AirStairs (Reply 11):
but you have made it pretty clear that you think it's unacceptable to violate sovereignty even in the United States' interest (if I were more patient with the a.net search engine I would have found them; but, I think we can agree that you've said this.) I personally think that it's a fine line to toe but the Pakistanis are really a mess at this point (the fragile government, I can't speak to the people), and just not in a position to carry out an obviously exigent task like this. Sure, they probably should have been notified beforehand, but who knows what the circumstances were leading up to this?

My sentiments exactly.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
bravo45
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:08 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
who thought God would reward him for murdering people, is now explaining his misdeeds to Allah.

You damn right he is!!
 
Falcon84
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:11 am



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 10):
I think nobody in his right mind will not see the necessity of the war in Afghanistan and possibly Pakistan.

I wish I agreed with you, but when the war in Afghanistan started, there were PLENTY on here who, even after 9/11, stated the U.S. had no right to invade Afghanistan.

Quoting AirStairs (Reply 11):
I personally think that it's a fine line to toe

I agree it is. And perhaps if Pakistan were to not be so afraid of the Tribes up near the Afghan border, this war might go a little better for everyone.

Oh, and RJ, why bring up offshore drilling and the GOP? This has nothing to do with those. But I guess you'll find even more to bitch about again. Unlike you, i don't follow a straight-jacketed ideology, and I do look at every situation individually, not as one big gob of politics like you do.
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bravo45
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:22 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
I agree it is. And perhaps if Pakistan were to not be so afraid of the Tribes up near the Afghan border, this war might go a little better for everyone.

And if the US had not 'moved on' to Iraq to take out 'An ally of Al Qaeda', we would not have been having this discussion. The west has already let the Afgans down before (after the Soviet withdrawl), when after their thing was done everyone just packed up and left the people in their misery. The second time is inexcusable, the people that live there have to find ways to get around. The Afghan war was half hearted from the begining, Afghanistan never saw the number of troops that Iraq did. All NATO is now doing is bombing from the air as their allied war lords rule their districts. The west has probably already dug itself a bigger problem in Afghanistan than Iraq ever was.
 
AirStairs
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:22 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
And perhaps if Pakistan were to not be so afraid of the Tribes up near the Afghan border, this war might go a little better for everyone.

I don't think afraid would be a completely fair or well-rounded characterization (there is so much that we don't know), but it does seem that there just isn't much incentive to expend their own military resources when the government can play both sides in a roundabout way.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:28 am

Good riddance to the dickwad. What did he ever do to advance the human condition? Asshole.

I got an email from my son in A-stan. Turns out some local kids, five of them, had been out herding sheep and they discovered some unexploded ordnance or an IED. It went off, killed one of them, and all the medics of his group rolled out to patch up the other kids. He spent a long afternoon with needle and thread patching up this one kid and was conflicted about it. It was a heavy experience for a young man.

I told him that good work speaks for itself. Someday this kid or his brother will be in the mosque on Friday, the mullah will be going on about the Americans this and the Americans that and this kid will think "f**k that. They saved my kid brother's life and didn't even ask to be paid." That's the payday.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:36 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
I agree it is. And perhaps if Pakistan were to not be so afraid of the Tribes up near the Afghan border, this war might go a little better for everyone.

To say Mushareef has a tenuous hold on power is putting it mildly. From what I've heard, the Pakistani government has always had little control in that area. To characterize Mushareef as a friend of the US is a stretch; we basically bribed him to help us fight terrorists. So we pull these border incursions to get Al Qaeda hideouts, and Mushareef condemns us to save face with his people. But the only way we'll ever get Al Qaeda is to keep doing raids just like this.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
Unlike you, i don't follow a straight-jacketed ideology, and I do look at every situation individually, not as one big gob of politics like you do.

Falcon, most of the time your posts could get you a job with the DNC. We disagree often. But you usually admit when you're wrong on the facts and occasionally (like now) you surprise me by posting something that I totally agree with.  bigthumbsup 
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
RJdxer
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:48 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
And perhaps if Pakistan were to not be so afraid of the Tribes up near the Afghan border, this war might go a little better for everyone.

It's not the people along the border Pakistan has to fear. Those people would be happiest if everyone and I do mean everyone would just leave them alone. It is the radical Islamic sects all throughout the country that the government has to fear.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
i don't follow a straight-jacketed ideology, and I do look at every situation individually, not as one big gob of politics like you do.

Sure you don't.  rotfl  Your problem is you will beat the living daylights out of this administration for invading one country in the middle east that was anything but an ally and yet are all for firing missiles across the border of another that is. That's hypocritical. My pointing out those facts is but a fraction of the bitching you've done.

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 16):
The Afghan war was half hearted from the begining, Afghanistan never saw the number of troops that Iraq did.

Given the logistical nightmare of getting troops and equipment into the theater not to mention resupplying them, having a number of boots on the ground just 2 months after 9/11 was a major accomplishment. The Taliban and AQ were routed in the following 2 months. The military is faced with the same situation they faced in Vietnam. The enemy has a safe haven that we cannot violate without causing even more harm. As long as the Taliban and AQ have safe haven in Pakistan, and as long as the Pakistan government would be in danger of falling to an Islamic revolution, complete with their nuclear weapons, then the situation will remain in stalemate and no amount of troops on the ground is going to radically affect that. The Soviet Union had anywhere from 80 to 104 thousand troops on the ground at any one time and using bases (guess where) outside the country the Mujihadeen were able to tie them down for a decade with hit and run attacks. If you thought the fight in Iraq was a long one, given history, you haven't seen anything yet.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
Falcon84
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:07 am

=Bravo45,reply=16]And if the US had not 'moved on' to Iraq to take out 'An ally of Al Qaeda', we would not have been having this discussion[/quote]

There was no ally of al Qaeda in Iraq, until after we invaded. OBL HATED Saddam, because of his secular-style government. So, that's an outright falsehood, my riend. WE let al Qaeda into Iraq.

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 16):
The west has probably already dug itself a bigger problem in Afghanistan than Iraq ever was.

No, not "the West'. The "United States". This Administraiton took it's eye off the real war, to go chase after phatom boogey men in Iraq, and we let Afghanistan slide by diverting troops and supplies needed in Afghanistan. It was a major blunder, and thanks to it, Afghanistan has become a problem that it should not have become.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 19):
Your problem is you will beat the living daylights out of this administration for invading one country in the middle east that was anything but an ally and yet are all for firing missiles across the border of another that is.

Whatever. And I was also, and still am, a very strong proponent of the war in Afghanistan. You, on the otherhand, will believe what you're told by the GOP, and won't divert one iota. You're a straight-jacket conservative. I AM liberal, on the other hand, but am not ashamed to show off more conservative tendancies, like supporting that war, and supporting a larger military to fight the war on terror. I am NOT, and never will be for the war in iraq.
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bravo45
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:09 am



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 19):
The Taliban and AQ were routed in the following 2 months.

And replaced by warlords (coz they were allied with the US, then again so were the Taliban back when they were called the Glorious Mujahideen). I have been utterly disgusted at the handling of the Afghan theater, now blame Pakistan.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 19):
As long as the Taliban and AQ have safe haven in Pakistan, and as long as the Pakistan government would be in danger of falling to an Islamic revolution, complete with their nuclear weapons, then the situation will remain in stalemate and no amount of troops on the ground is going to radically affect that.

Oh I could write a book about that. Pakistan is in the hands of US backed dictator who has next to no popularity among the people (he had support a few years back but he is in the -ve now). He would have been long gone had the west changed its mind when the general public rose against his move to tame the judiciary. No wonder he moved to suppress all opposition that was peaceful. He is ruining the country, and is more dangerous for Pakistan than any terrorist in Pakistan. Sounds familiar? The west has been here before, no lessons were learned from the Shah, in fact I am often stunned when people bring him up implying things would have been better under him. I am glad he was gotten rid of and I would be glad when Mush becomes a part of history. The west has choose the wrong side in Iran, and is refusing to wake up to the reality in Pakistan.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 19):
If you thought the fight in Iraq was a long one, given history, you haven't seen anything yet.

 checkmark 
 
bravo45
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:12 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
No, not "the West'. The "United States". This Administraiton

I have and will refer to it that way because none other ever stood up to the US or Bush (including Pakistan) and so now everyone will pay including innocent civilians either victims of suicide bombings or of bombs dropped from a/c.
 
baroque
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:41 am



Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 22):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
No, not "the West'. The "United States". This Administraiton

I have and will refer to it that way because none other ever stood up to the US or Bush (including Pakistan) and so now everyone will pay including innocent civilians either victims of suicide bombings or of bombs dropped from a/c.

To judge by the noises from our new Min for Defence and his meeting with NATO about their plans for Afghanistan, he seemed to doubt there were plans and certainly complained bitterly that if there were any, Australia had not been let into the secret.

Just looking at what is happening, it would seem the plan must be to restrict central government to Kabul, bring back some of the "Taliban" laws such as suppression of women's rights, make A the world centre of heroin production and ensure that the extremists in Pakistan have the best of an otherwise miserable case to recruit more extremists.

So far, it seems to be going well.

Who rules in Afghanistan? The warlords, the drug lords and the Taliban. Was THAT the plan? Tell me I am wrong. I would like to be.

As for the Frontier provinces, well anybody who read any UK history about India could have told you they would be a problem. And FWIW, could also have told you what sort of a problem too. Except they are now better armed.

Interesting too that the most definitive evidence that the guy died has come from Al Q. Suddenly they are an authoritative source? What would you do if you were Al Q, put out a story that someone of value had been killed to try to lay a cold trail for him. At least it is a possibility. Which makes the triumphalism perhaps a bit premature.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:32 am



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 18):
To say Mushareef has a tenuous hold on power is putting it mildly. From what I've heard, the Pakistani government has always had little control in that area. To characterize Mushareef as a friend of the US is a stretch; we basically bribed him to help us fight terrorists. So we pull these border incursions to get Al Qaeda hideouts, and Mushareef condemns us to save face with his people. But the only way we'll ever get Al Qaeda is to keep doing raids just like this.

Even the Brits before them. Just read Churchill's autobiography. He was a young soldier there during the late 19th century. The stories are not much different from today. The British have been involved in a lowscale war up to the end of colonial rule.

I think the only way out of this dilema is to really occupy the region and forcibly develop it (this means lots of manpower, soldiers in every village and these soldiers MUST set an example, behave well and improve the education and living standards of the people, build roads, lay electricity lines etc.). Don't forget that the majority of the population in the tribal areas are uneducated and poor.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:16 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
I agree it is. And perhaps if Pakistan were to not be so afraid of the Tribes up near the Afghan border, this war might go a little better for everyone.

The airstrike was justified. The 3,000 dead from the World Trade Center, United 93, and the Pentagon tragedies are all the justification the United States needed. I understand that Pakistan is a sovereign country, but there is a limit on their cooperativeness and loyalty of both their military and intelligence service. We have to do what we feel is militarily needed to kill off al Qaeda's top operatives. This guy was the number 2 in command behind Osama bin Laden!

It is not the fault of the U.S. that Pakistani military and intelligence service is completely unable to control their border region with Afghanistan, where the local residents were believed to safeguard the al Qaeda leadership under the orders of their own local tribal leaders.

I mean what else is the U.S. supposed to do under the circumstances? This is what we're fighting this damn war against terror for! We had a chance to take out this really evil guy, we took action regarding whatever intelligence was received, and now he's dead and not able to murder any more innocent people, in the U.S. or anywhere else in the world.  highfive 
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
AirStairs
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:27 am



Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 16):
Afghanistan never saw the number of troops that Iraq did.

Maybe a weaker government, weaker military, poorer country, and not insignificant alliances domestically and with Pakistan warranted a different amount of troops?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
This Administraiton took it's eye off the real war, to go chase after phatom boogey men in Iraq, and we let Afghanistan slide by diverting troops and supplies needed in Afghanistan. It was a major blunder, and thanks to it, Afghanistan has become a problem that it should not have become.

Is there any evidence to suggest that Afghanistan has suffered shortages or cutbacks in necessary troops or supplies as a direct diversion of resources to Iraq? Furthermore, is there any reason to believe that bigger numbers alone would be able to more successfully fight a war in which the enemy is able to train and hide behind and travel across a sovereign border that is for all intents and purposes unsealable?

You can't just simply boil it down to the idea that the Taliban/AQ is regaining strength as a direct result of lower troop numbers; there is just no evidence that either are directly correlated. There are many, many more factors that go into conflict like this, why make it simpler than it is or needs to be?
 
RJdxer
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:11 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
There was no ally of al Qaeda in Iraq, until after we invaded.

Who was their ally after the invasion? The Iraqi people? The new Iraqi government? Nope, just another liberal talking point.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
Whatever.

Guess that sums you up.

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 21):
And replaced by warlords

When, in the past 1000 years, have the local warlords if that's what you want to call them, not played a large role in local politics not only in Afghanistan but that entire part of the world? No matter who or what was in charge of the country as a whole they have always had a part in their regional politics. I am not intoning that it is right or just, just that it is.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
Falcon84
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RE: Al Qaeda Weapons Expert Bites The Dust

Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:16 pm



Quoting AirStairs (Reply 26):
Is there any evidence to suggest that Afghanistan has suffered shortages or cutbacks in necessary troops or supplies as a direct diversion of resources to Iraq?

Yes, the fact that the Pentagon wants to decrease the number of troops in Iraq, and increase the number in Afghanistan.
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