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stasisLAX
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Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:42 am

The Mercury division of Ford Motor Company, once rumored to be discontinued after the 2009 model year to join Oldsmobile and Plymouth in the junkyard of car brands, apparently will live on to fight another day. According to an Motor Trend online article dated July 28, 2008 "Late last week, FoMoCo announced it would have product for Mercury, including a new small car in 2010."

This just so happens to coincide with Ford's announcement that it will build the European Ford Mondeo in North America beginning in 2010. The Mondeo is slightly smaller than the current Mercury Milan (a near identical twin of the Fusion). Ford has also announced that an all-new American-designed Ford Taurus will be sold in 2010 (which has recently been seen undergoing proving ground testing thanks to the auto spy photogs), but Ford apparently hasn't said a thing about a 2010 Sable. Therefore, the U.S. automotive press has shifted into rumor overdrive with speculation that the 2010 new Mercury will actually be a Mercury-badged version the current Mondeo.

2008 Ford Mondeo


In other Mercury new model news, Motor Trend is reporting that another "new Mercury should be a version of the Ford Kuga", a European Focus-based crossover -and another vehicle that Ford President Alan Mulally has promised to bring to North America in press interviews. The next-generation Ford Escape is likely to be accompanied by new Lincoln version, not a new Mercury Mountaineer. The Mercury-badged Kuga would fill the Mountaineer's spot in the Mercury model line-up.

2008 Ford Kuga crossover


Another European model that could possibly be rebadged as a 2011 Mercury Villager is the European Ford C-Max, a smaller but tall wagon-ish people mover. Mulally has also stated that this model will be sold in North America in the near future.

2008 Ford C-Max


It clearly seems that Ford is applying GM's Saturn's strategy of selling slightly modified European models (in Saturn's case, using Opel) to rapidly revive its Lincoln-Mercury division. I have to wonder if the rear-drive Australian Ford Falcon sedan will appear finally in North America as a much-needed replacement for the Mercury Grand Marquis or as a belated replacement for the Lincoln LS sedan (in XR6 Turbo format).

So, is revitalizing Mercury as Ford's version of Saturn - utilizing GM's model strategy - really a good idea? Will the European Ford "kinetic" influenced styling work with the more conservative tastes of North American buyers? Your thoughts please, fellow motorheads?   

http://blogs.motortrend.com/6272342/...ng-about-mercurykind-of/index.html

[Edited 2008-08-03 18:56:31]

[Edited 2008-08-03 19:04:16]
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Cadet57
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:21 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
2008 Ford Mondeo

Very nice!

Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
008 Ford Kuga crossover

Not a fan of the grill, but otherwise a nice offer.

Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
2008 Ford C-Max

Seems pretty basic, but at the same time, decent.
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:45 am

I don't follow the auto industry closely, but how much cannibalization goes on with Ford and GM owning so many brands with similar products? Does it make sense?

Any insider opinion?
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asuflyer05
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:52 am

They just need to let it die already.
 
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:03 am

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 3):
They just need to let it die already.

I know it will never happen, but I really want Ford to give Mercury its own version of the Mustang - a sport/luxury model with unique sheetmetal, sequential tail lights and the 340 horsepower EcoBoost twin-turbo V6 motor - and then call it the Cougar XR7   

[Edited 2008-08-03 20:07:37]
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Kent350787
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:26 am

Just had a look at the Mercury website - what a dire range!!! of course the Grand Marquis is the biggest joke (isn't it a rebadged Crown Victoria and dying in the near future - what an ugly museum piece).

Surely the euro cars can only improve the brand, if it is to be retained. The Mondeo is actually quite a large car, which disguises its size well.

If only Ford Oz had engineered the Falcon for LHD - nice styling, decent build quality, rear drive, standard 260hp engine, good handling....

Kent
 
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:32 am



Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 5):
Just had a look at the Mercury website - what a dire range!!! of course the Grand Marquis is the biggest joke (isn't it a rebadged Crown Victoria and dying in the near future - what an ugly museum piece).

'dems fightin words to SuperFly. He's waiting for a Grand Marquis Estate Wagon with wood paneling.
 
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:42 am

Sort of sounds like they're bringing back the Merkur concept...
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stasisLAX
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:45 am

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 6):
dems fightin words to SuperFly. He's waiting for a Grand Marquis Estate Wagon with wood paneling.

LOL. I'm sure Fly wants a Mercury Grand Marquis "Colony Park" wagon - Estate Wagons were Buicks
     

[Edited 2008-08-03 20:51:12]
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Kent350787
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:57 am



Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 6):
Grand Marquis Estate Wagon with wood paneling

And 20" rims, surely?  Smile

I don't resile from my comment re. the Grand Marquis, no matter what d' Fly says!

Kent
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:24 am



Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 5):
If only Ford Oz had engineered the Falcon for LHD - nice styling, decent build quality, rear drive, standard 260hp engine, good handling....

Damn, we'll have a long wait for the next iteration of the Falcon to handle the left hand drive. Why would Ford design the current model to NOT be LHD if requested. That's a really big mistake on Ford planning and management's part.

Oh well, maybe Ford will give Mercury this concept sedan as the new Mercury Marauder instead.  yes 

Big version: Width: 500 Height: 315 File size: 45kb
Ford Interceptor sport sedan (concept)
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aerobalance
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:55 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
selling slightly modified European models

Good idea!
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
Kent350787
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:03 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 10):
Why would Ford design the current model to NOT be LHD if requested. That's a really big mistake on Ford planning and management's part.

Yep, there's been a lot of talk that this will be the death of the Falcon with the current generation. Plus they're switching to an imported V6 in 2010 (currently Oz made inline 6)

Both Holden (GM) and Toyota Oz export around half of their large car production, with much to LHD countries (Middle East, China (big Buick is a Holden) and the Pontiac G8 from Holden to the US.

Ford exports the Falcon to New Zealand....
 
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:20 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
The next-generation Ford Escape is likely to be accompanied by new Lincoln version, not a new Mercury Mountaineer.

I think you mean the Mercury Mariner. The Mountaineer's is Mercury's version of the Explorer; the Lincoln version, the Aviator bit the dust a few years ago.

Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
2011 Mercury Villager is the European Ford C-Max,

 vomit Didn't Mercury learn its lesson from the last Villager (a rebadged Nissan Quest) it put out?

Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 5):
Just had a look at the Mercury website - what a dire range!!! of course the Grand Marquis is the biggest joke (isn't it a rebadged Crown Victoria and dying in the near future - what an ugly museum piece).

Say what you will, but the Grand Marquis' been Mercury's main reason for the brand's existence. Now with the Crown Vic restricted to fleet sales (mainly taxi & police); the Grand Marquis has no real competitor. Sorry, but the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger are a little too narrow for 5 to 6 passengers.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 10):
Oh well, maybe Ford will give Mercury this concept sedan as the new Mercury Marauder instead.

Sadly, that concept vehicle may not get production approval thanks to high gas prices and the upcoming increase in CAFE standards.
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:40 pm



Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 3):
They just need to let it die already.

The biggest problem that Ford has with that is the Lincoln brand dealers. The Lincoln brand can't be paired with Ford for various reasons but they also can't survive on just the Lincoln business, they need the second "lower luxury" brand of Mercury to bring in enough customers and sales.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 10):
Oh well, maybe Ford will give Mercury this concept sedan as the new Mercury Marauder instead.

That would be a sweet idea and very smart. It would finally give Mercury a unique identity vehicle. Of course Mercury's bigger siblings (Ford and Lincoln) always take anything that is halfway nice so I doubt it'll get what it needs anytime soon.

Being the middle child can suck sometimes.

Tugg
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:56 pm

I for one am pleased to see Ford and GM finally bringing some of their great European models over to our shores. I just hope that they don't tone them down like Ford did with the Focus.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 4):
but I really want Ford to give Mercury its own version of the Mustang - a sport/luxury model with unique sheetmetal, sequential tail lights and the 340 horsepower EcoBoost twin-turbo V6 motor - and then call it the Cougar XR7

Seeing that Ford already tried and failed at this with the Mecury Capri in the 80s, I hope they just leave the Mustang alone. If they want to bring back the Cougar, I'm all for it, but leave the Mustang out of the equation. It's bad enough seeing the Pony emblem on the 4.6L V8 in other cars that Ford put it in such as Rover.
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:26 pm



Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 13):
I think you mean the Mercury Mariner. The Mountaineer's is Mercury's version of the Explorer; the Lincoln version, the Aviator bit the dust a few years ago.

You're correct - too many "M" names in the Mercury line-up - and too many "F" names in the Ford line-up, come to think of it  Wink
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:55 pm



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 15):
Seeing that Ford already tried and failed at this with the Mecury Capri in the 80s

The Mercury Capri was far from a failure - the Fox-platform Capri (shared with the Mustang) remained in production for seven years (1979 to 1986), approximately 360,000 Capris were made, and the car received numerous engineering and styling updates during those years.  yes 

Source: http://foureyedpride.com/content/view/22/38/
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Flighty
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:12 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 17):
the Fox-platform Capri (shared with the Mustang) remained in production for seven years (1979 to 1986), approximately 360,000 Capris were made,

Yeah, but the later Australian built Capri



..,. wasn't all that.


This was a nice little car though:



1999-2002 Mercury Cougar V6
 
Kent350787
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:25 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 18):
Yeah, but the later Australian built Capri

Australian walks away hanging head in shame at that POS - interestingly, it was intended as an MX5/Miata competitor, but took too long to develop, didn't go (apart from the turbo), didn't handle and fell apart....
 
ACDC8
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:25 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 17):
The Mercury Capri was far from a failure - the Fox-platform Capri (shared with the Mustang) remained in production for seven years (1979 to 1986), approximately 360,000 Capri's were made, and the car received numerous engineering and styling updates during those years.

Seeing that Ford sold more Mustangs in 1979 alone then they sold total number of Capri's, and given the short 7 year run (compared to Mustang's close to 45 year run), the Capri was not a big seller and I consider it a lame attempt at taking a great car (the Mustang) and simply adding slight cosmetic changes to it. If you look at your source and compare the production numbers between the Mustang and Capri, I'm sure you'll come to the conclusion that the Mustang is the car the buyers want, not just because of the iconic name, but also because they don't want fake convertible tops ...  Wink

Mustang - 1
Capri - 0

:D
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Superfly
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:36 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 8):
Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 6):
dems fightin words to SuperFly. He's waiting for a Grand Marquis Estate Wagon with wood paneling.

LOL. I'm sure Fly wants a Mercury Grand Marquis "Colony Park" wagon - Estate Wagons were Buicks

HELL YES!  bigthumbsup 

Glad to see Mercury might stick around after all, even though it won't be the Mercury I want to see.
Bring back the Concorde
 
asuflyer05
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New

Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:10 am



Quoting Tugger (Reply 14):
The biggest problem that Ford has with that is the Lincoln brand dealers. The Lincoln brand can't be paired with Ford for various reasons but they also can't survive on just the Lincoln business, they need the second "lower luxury" brand of Mercury to bring in enough customers and sales.

Lincoln is "lower luxury." They are not a tier 1 luxury brand like BMW or Mercedes. Customers graduating from the Ford lineup can progress to the Lincoln product line. Much like Honda does with Acura, Toyota with Lexus, etc.

That's the problem with the Big Three. There's no brand identity for customers to place their loyalty. Walk into a Honda showroom and talk to a customer trading out of an Accord. Chances are they purchased a Civic, upgraded to the Accord and now that they have a family are going home with a Pilot or an Odyssey. When they come back in 5 years, the Accord won't have changed names three times.
 
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:25 am

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 22):
Lincoln is "lower luxury." They are not a tier 1 luxury brand like BMW or Mercedes

Exactly - Lincoln is no longer a competitor to Cadillac. Lincoln is a competitor to Chrysler and Buick and Acura.

In the brand strategy that Ford utilized in the 1990's under the leadership of dim-witted Ford CEO Jac Nasser, Lincoln was branded as Ford's entry-level luxury brand. Volvo and Jaguar were the mid to upper level luxury brands, and Aston-Martin and Land Rover were the specialty premium brands. In fact, Lincoln leadership stated to the press in those days that the Lincoln brand would not be "foolishly chasing Cadillac" upmarket. Cadillac has obviously won the bet that they could be successful in the upper luxury marketplace, and now Lincoln is no longer class-competitive with Cadillac. In fact, they are now completely marginalized in the entry level luxury marketplace. The Lincoln MKS isn't enough of a step upward given its Volvo S80 platform is also shared with the current Taurus and Sable family sedans and wagon.

Lincoln needs an out of the ballpark hit - along the lines of the stunning 1961 Lincoln Continental. Mercury needs to generate enough volume to support the survival of the Lincoln-Mercury dealerships. Otherwise, both Lincoln and Mercury may be joining Studebaker, Desoto, Oldsmobile, et al brands in the junkyard in the near future.

Lincoln Continental sports sedan concept


[Edited 2008-08-04 21:37:24]

[Edited 2008-08-04 21:46:38]
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asuflyer05
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:42 am

The Lincoln marquee will survive. It has way more cache than the Mercury nameplate. They need a product for the rappers to drive in music videos. That's what Cadillac did and look at them now. Lincoln had their chance a few years ago with the Navigator, but the success never trickled through the lineup.
 
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:07 am

StasisLAX, I always thought that Lincoln Continental revival circa 2002 was just the ticket. It is "fly" and yet serious.

The fact they didn't build to this design means they are just absolutely totally clueless and hopeless IMO.

Retro works. People love retro cars. Lincoln is retro as hell. Lincoln should be building retro-futuristic cars. Lincoln is a piss poor Acura copycat, but a very fertile ground for American traditional retro luxury. How they have avoided their own success, shocks and dismays me. The solution is right there in front of them. Yet they are too dumb to use the heritage that was handed to them on silver platter. They built a stunning flagship car -- the 2002 Continental -- then watched as Chrysler and Bentley mopped up the retro sedan market.

Whatever. Just unbelievable. They had a winner and they picked a string of utter zeroes instead like the Aviator and MKS.  Sad  Sad
 
Superfly
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:05 pm

I really hate to see what has happened to Lincoln in recent years. I was really hoping they had went forward with the 2004 Continental concept sedan. (The one StasisLAX shows)

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 23):
The Lincoln MKS isn't enough of a step upward given its Volvo S80 platform is also shared with the current Taurus and Sable family sedans and wagon.

The Lincoln MKS is a step backwards. I even mentioned that at the Autoshow last year.
Front-wheel drive luxury cars are a thing of the 1980s. There is no need for that and is not a true replacement for the Town Car.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 23):
now Lincoln is no longer class-competitive with Cadillac.

The current Lincoln Town Car is superior to the Cadillac DTS.
That is the only car Lincoln has that is better than the Cadillac and sadly, Lincoln isn't even marketing the Town Car.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Flighty
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:00 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
The current Lincoln Town Car is superior to the Cadillac DTS.

LOL. The Town Car doesn't just resemble a 1970s car, it actually IS a 1970s car. Probably why you like it.  Big grin

I got nothing against RWD traditional luxury cars, I just wish the Town Car would get a modern chassis, a redesign, and look like the 2002 Continental concept car shown above. Make that the limo / hearse platform.
 
aerobalance
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:00 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 27):
I just wish the Town Car would get a modern chassis,

What's your definition of a modern chassis?
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stasisLAX
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:07 pm

Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 28):
What's your definition of a modern chassis?

In Ford's case, it would be the current rear wheel drive Ford Falcon full-sized sedan from Oz. In Ford Australia senior management's infinite wisdom, this model cannot be fitted with left hand drive as needed for export to the U.S. or most Middle Eastern countries as was mentioned above. Such a dumb decision, Ford.  thumbsdown 

2008 Ford Falcon XR6


[Edited 2008-08-05 15:12:41]

[Edited 2008-08-05 15:46:42]
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Cadet57
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:27 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
The current Lincoln Town Car is superior to the Cadillac DTS.

Idk, 'Fly, I love the ride in the DTS more. But both are still very nice cars.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 23):
Lincoln Continental sports sedan concept

Dear god, that is amazing.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 27):
Make that the limo / hearse platform.

 cloudnine  Maybe a few years from now when little ol me gets a funeral home it'll be offered, Id jump on that in half a second...
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ABQ747
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:06 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
The Lincoln MKS is a step backwards. I even mentioned that at the Autoshow last year.
Front-wheel drive luxury cars are a thing of the 1980s. There is no need for that and is not a true replacement for the Town Car.

It's not meant to be a replacement for the Town Car. I think it was Motor Trend that reported that Ford is working on a new full-size, V8 rear-wheel drive platform to finally replace the current Town Car.
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Cadet57
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:12 pm



Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 31):
I think it was Motor Trend that reported that Ford is working on a new full-size, V8 rear-wheel drive platform to finally replace the current Town Car.

Wasn't it supposed to be the rumored Ford Interceptor concept?

http://www.breakitdownblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/3-ford-interceptor-concept.jpg
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
Superfly
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:26 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 27):
I just wish the Town Car would get a modern chassis,

No need to.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 29):
it would be the current rear wheel drive Ford Falcon full-sized sedan from Oz.

That is too small. It maybe full-sized by Aussie standards, but not for the American market.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 30):
Idk, 'Fly, I love the ride in the DTS more. But both are still very nice cars.

The fact that the DTS is a front drive car is all I need to know. I would never touch one.

Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 31):
It's not meant to be a replacement for the Town Car.

That is what they are training their sales staff to tell customers and the hired help at the Autoshows.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Flighty
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New

Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:28 pm

These 2 cars have the same chassis:




http://members.fortunecity.com/rwcar4f/springma174.jpg
1979 Ford LTD

http://www.lincoln.com/towncar/img/main_home_towncar.jpg
2008 Lincoln Town Car



!!!!
 
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Tugger
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:39 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 34):
These 2 cars have the same chassis:

Well the 747 has been around for how long now? And old chassis is not that big a deal. It's how it is built today and how it has been refined over the years and all the additional improvements that really matter.

Tugg

[Edited 2008-08-05 16:41:14]
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Cadet57
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:42 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 33):
That is too small. It maybe full-sized by Aussie standards, but not for the American market.

Exactly, I cant put pallbearers and flowers in it  Wink. Sorry, It's really the way I look at full size cars now...
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:29 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 33):
That is too small. It maybe full-sized by Aussie standards, but not for the American market.

OK, you're right Fly. It's true that the Falcon might be just a little too small to be called full-sized for us "big boned" Americans.

Maybe Ford of Australian just needs to introduce the stretched version of their Falcon. Oh wait, there was a stretched version of the Falcon marketed for many years in Oz? And it was called the Fairlane? And there was a top of the line luxury model of the Fairlane called the LTD? And Ford of North American could have utilized the Fairlane platform for a updated 21st century Town Car? But Ford management decided to discontinued both the Fairlane and the LTD models at the end of 2007.

2007 Ford Fairlane RWD Sedan


Yet another brilliant move by Ford's senior management brainiacs IMO.   

[Edited 2008-08-05 18:40:42]

[Edited 2008-08-05 18:41:40]
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Superfly
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:26 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 34):
1979 Ford LTD



Quoting Flighty (Reply 34):
2008 Lincoln Town Car

Everyone knows that.
Your point?

The 2008 Town Car gets the best gas milage than any other full-sized luxury sedan on the market.
The BMW 7-series and Mercedes S-class are gas-guzzlers. The Town Car gets about the same as a V6 Camry.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 36):
Exactly, I cant put pallbearers and flowers in it Wink. Sorry, It's really the way I look at full size cars now...

Not everyone though.
Nothing wrong with Lincoln making a full-sized luxury car.

The argument against an "old" chassis is silly. It's just a piece of metal, not a mechanical device.
Bring back the Concorde
 
ACDC8
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:15 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 34):
These 2 cars have the same chassis:

Hard to believe, but the Fox Body chassis that the SN-95 Mustangs were built on up to 2004 is pretty much the same chassis that the old Zephyr and Fairmont were built on in 1978.
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PHLBOS
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:19 pm



Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 32):
Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 31):
I think it was Motor Trend that reported that Ford is working on a new full-size, V8 rear-wheel drive platform to finally replace the current Town Car.

Wasn't it supposed to be the rumored Ford Interceptor concept?

If it's the Motor Trend article I'm thinking of, the one that came out several months ago showing the Interceptor concept vehicle on the cover; a few things need to be noted:

1. That article was written when gas prices were just breaking the $3/gallon mark, before the new CAFE legislation was signed, and before most automakers posting major losses due to the recent $4/gallon gasoline.

2. The latest I heard (I read this in a magazine about a month ago) about the Interceptor concept is that it has not been given the go-ahead for production approval. The reason being the CAFE situation and the current state of gas prices.

3. When the MKS first came to light, it was indeed toted as a possible replacement for the Town Car. However, at some point, that notion was later dismissed on the grounds that the MKS being too narrow and too underpowered of a car to be a suitable replacement. In a recent Motor Trend book listing the upcoming 2009 models; the write-up for either the Town Car or MKS stated that the MKS was once considered a replacement for the Town Car but "the market prevailed".

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 37):
OK, you're right Fly. It's true that the Falcon might be just a little too small to be called full-sized for us "big boned" Americans.

Heck, one does not have to be "big boned", stocky, whatever to know the most new cars available today are simply too narrow to do 3-across seating in the back (or even front) long term.

Just last week when my brother and his family flew into town from PVD, he rented a new Impala, the largest car in Chevy's lineup (note to 'Fly: lack of vehicle availability was the reason why he didn't rent a Grand Marquis). During some short trips to the city, I would ride along with them in the backseat next to my 2 nieces (one is 12, the other is 10 and both are still growing). As 'Fly & Cadet57 can attest since they've both met me before, I'm not that big of a person (5'-7", about 155 lbs.), when I sat in the backseat along w/my 2 nieces; it was, to say the least, a tight fit. If the three of us were any larger, sitting 3-across in the rear seat of the Impala, even short-term; would not be doable. This is probably the number one reason WHY so many opted for large trucks and SUVs over cars during the last decade.

As far as a successor to the Town Car is concerned; if it's not based off of the Interceptor concept vehicle, I wonder what platform would it be based on?

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 24):
The Lincoln marquee will survive.

That's a thought/suggestion I mentioned on the last Mercury thread; re-christen the Grand Marquis as the Lincoln-Mercury Grand Marquis. Back in the '70s, the combined Lincoln-Mercury name was indeed listed (though in small letters) on the crest emblem located on the backs of the full-sized models. If the Mercury brand were to go; this might be an alternate way to keep what's been their best-selling model alive.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
Lincoln isn't even marketing the Town Car.

You should add the word anymore to your above-staement. Big grin
Outside of sales or clearance ads on T.V.; I don't think I've seen an ad promoting just the Town Car in about 12 years... shortly before its controversial '98 restyle.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
I was really hoping they had went forward with the 2004 Continental concept sedan. (The one StasisLAX shows)

I, for one, would love to see that; especially since the current Town Car is a bit overdue for a restyle. Heck, I would love to see Mercury give the Grand Marquis a retro look as well.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
Cadet57
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:33 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 38):
Not everyone though.

I know, but from my persepective if im looking at a car that will be used in that manner I need to know it can perform the duties I need it to.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 38):
Nothing wrong with Lincoln making a full-sized luxury car.

Nope, like i said, its still a great looking car. I'll miss them if now that they arent offered.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 38):
It's just a piece of metal, not a mechanical device.

Exactly. Makes you wonder what would happen if all these european car fanboys found our that MB or BMW was using the same frame for 20 years...
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flight152
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:47 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 38):
The Town Car gets about the same as a V6 Camry.

The Town Car also has the performance of a V6 Camry. The base 7-Series and S-Class (US) both are shy of 400 hoursepower.
 
Cadet57
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:21 pm



Quoting Flight152 (Reply 42):
The Town Car also has the performance of a V6 Camry. The base 7-Series and S-Class (US) both are shy of 400 hoursepower.

The S-clas and 7 series are two totally different cars then the TC. Considering the age and driving habits of most town car owners, They dont need or use 400 hp. The only application I could see that much power being useful for is Limo or hearse variants.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
JJJ
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:20 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 18):
1999-2002 Mercury Cougar V6

Which were sold in Europe rebadged as Fords
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:34 pm



Quoting Flight152 (Reply 42):
The base 7-Series and S-Class (US) both are shy of 400 hoursepower.

IIRC, both those models ALSO have Gas Guzzler taxes added to their sticker prices for the last 2 decades. That issue alone is the main reason WHY Lincoln, Mercury, and/or Ford WON'T offer the 5.4L or larger engines on ANYTHING outside of a couple limited-production specialty Mustangs.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
Superfly
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:39 pm



Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 45):
IIRC, both those models ALSO have Gas Guzzler taxes added to their sticker prices for the last 2 decades.

WOW!  Wow!
Well I'll be darned. I learn something new everyday.
How come none of the eco-freaks complains and sabotage these BMW & Mercedes gas-guzzlers? They only complain about the American made trucks & SUVs that can actually serve the purpose of a truck/SUV.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 45):
That issue alone is the main reason WHY Lincoln, Mercury, and/or Ford WON'T offer the 5.4L or larger engines on ANYTHING outside of a couple limited-production specialty Mustangs.

I would love to drop the current Navigator engine in the current Town Car.  drool 
For those who aren't aware, that is a 5.4 liter V8 (same block as the 4.6), but is 32-valves and puts out around 320 HP. In fact, Lincoln should offer the Mustang GT500 engine in the Town Car but give it a quiet exhaust.
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stasisLAX
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:12 pm

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 42):
The Town Car also has the performance of a V6 Camry. The base 7-Series and S-Class (US) both are shy of 400 hoursepower.

The 4.6 liter V8 in the 2008 Town Car only makes only 239 horsepower and is EPA rated for the 2008 model year at a lousy 15mpg city and 22mpg highway - poor fuel economy due to both its ancient 4-speed automatic transmission and its porky 4,500 pound curb weight. Even the huge 2008 Cadillac DTS sedan weights 500 pounds less - and the Northstar V8 in the base DTS makes 275 horsepower.

Here's the other major problem - a new base model Town Car cost $45,295. There's a lot of more advanced, more efficient, and more spacious vehicles on the market for that money.

Oh, and for the record the 2008 Camry V6 with a six-speed automatic transmission makes 268 horsepower and is EPA rated at 19mpg city and 28mpg highway.

Lincoln needs to replace the Town Car - the Continental concept sedan with a twin-turbo EcoBoost V6 that makes 340 hp would be the answer - powerful, efficient, and uber-elegant.   

[Edited 2008-08-06 16:22:38]

[Edited 2008-08-06 16:33:33]
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PHLBOS
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:14 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 47):
Here's the other major problem - a new base model Town Car cost $45,295. There's a lot of more advanced, more efficient, and more spacious vehicles on the market for that money.

Out of curiousity, other than the Cadillac DTS, just what CAR has equal or greater more interior room than a Town Car at a similar price range; especially the longer L-series? While the DTS has more overall volume, its hip & shoulder room is still less than the Town Car. Plus, the DTS doesn't offer a full front bench seat (to accomodate a 6th passenger). Incidentally, the FWD DTS posts roughly the SAME EPA mileage ratings as the RWD Town Car. However, in all fairness, I do agree that Lincoln has let the Town Car languish a bit in the performance end. Although the Northstar V8 days may be numbered now due to rising gas prices & CAFE so Cadillac isn't immune to all this as well. Note: plans for a RWD replacement for the DTS have been postponed/scrapped for the time being.

And since many are talking about 'carbon footprint' these days, the current Town Car has a smaller carbon footprint (8.5-10.2) than the BMW 7-series (10.2-12.2) and the Mercedes S-Class (11.4-14.1). The Cadillac DTS has a carbon footprint of 10.2. Note: the numbers range covers all available engines for each model.

The upshoot: the newer luxury vehicles out there are about EQUAL or WORSE than the Town Car in terms of fuel economy and carbon footprint.

Fuel economy & carbon footprint data for any vehicle (sold in the U.S.) can be found at the below-link:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
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JJJ
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RE: Mercury Division To Be "invigorated" With New Cars

Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:18 pm



Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 48):
current Town Car has a smaller carbon footprint (8.5-10.2) than the BMW 7-series (10.2-12.2) and the Mercedes S-Class (11.4-14.1)

Carbon footprint is relative to a place, imports in the US will generally have worse carbon footprints than other models made in the Americas. And not only made there as the car is pretty much a remnant of better days for Detroit, a relatively very high % of the components are also domestic.

Whichever way you want to slice it, the Town car is a relic. Heavy and inefficient.

Regarding the front bench.... there's a reason no one else has gone down that road in luxury cars. Seats in a luxury car are supposed to be plush and comfortable, something a bench isn't.

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