AGM100
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Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:13 pm

Arguments

1. Hit them now on a strategic level ... now is the time to do it while Russia's military is not on par with us and the west.

2. Evidently Russia is not afraid of a new cold war Weaken them now before they can commit full industrial weight behind the effort.

3. A strike against them now will help collate the former republics allied against Russia.

4 . If we wait , Russia will grow stronger from this adventure.

5. WWIII now ? or when they become even more powerful .


Scary times people , what is going to happen .
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aviationmaster
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:35 pm

Me thinks the US should first clean up the mess in Iraq and Afghanistan before even considering taking out the Russian Military.  Wink

As a reminder, Cold War I was not won by taking out the Soviet's military.
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:40 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
AGM100

After the US military performance in Iraq I would not be betting on them taking out the Russians by a long shot. A attack on Russia will pretty much mean the end of USA.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
haggis79
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:40 pm

eh? you're kidding, right?

I can tell you one f***ing good argument against it: the Russians have enough nuclear power to bomb the world back into the times when only bacteria and nothing else lived on earth... and I'm quite sure they would use it if attacked... so unless you are a member of the Aum sect you shouldn't even consider this an option!
300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
 
haggis79
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:41 pm



Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 3):
A attack on Russia will pretty much mean the end of USA.

more likely an end of the world as we know it...
300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
 
flynavy
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:47 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):

Outstanding.

This one will be good.

Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
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yowza
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:02 pm

PLEASE for the love of god tell me this thread is a joke... PLEASE?!?

YOWza
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:05 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
1. Hit them now on a strategic level ... now is the time to do it while Russia's military is not on par with us and the west.

Do you have some hard data or is this just wishful thinking? Nobody ever told you that underestimating the enemy is a stupid and dangerous thing to do?

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):

2. Evidently Russia is not afraid of a new cold war Weaken them now before they can commit full industrial weight behind the effort.

Russia is not even afraid of a hot war. They have enough manpower, lots of material and they wouldn't hesitate to use it for a fraction of second.

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):

3. A strike against them now will help collate the former republics allied against Russia.

More like collate the rest of the world against the USA

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
4 . If we wait , Russia will grow stronger from this adventure.

You perhaps didn't get the memo, but Russia is growing stronger and stronger for at least 5 years now. And Russia was never so weak that it could be considered an easy target.

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):

5. WWIII now ? or when they become even more powerful .

Never. Be ready, but don't start it.

Summary: Attack Russia - extremely bad idea. Forget it.
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StuckInCA
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:06 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):

Are you joking? I'm not trying to be a jerk or insult you. It just seems that your grasp on reality and the threats of other countries might be strained. Take a deep breath.

They (Russia) have enough military might to destroy the earth, just like we do. War with them is not an option. Furthermore, does it really seem necessary anyway?
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:17 pm

I think the OP has been reading too many Tom Clancy novels...
 
sv7887
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:27 pm



Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 3):
After the US military performance in Iraq I would not be betting on them taking out the Russians by a long shot. A attack on Russia will pretty much mean the end of USA.

The US was fighting a guerilla style war until recently. No conventional army has a prayer against the US Military even a diminished war weary one.

Russia is just dusting off it's war machine, and would not fare well throwing 25 yr old TU-95's and T-72 tanks against the USA

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
1. Hit them now on a strategic level ... now is the time to do it while Russia's military is not on par with us and the west.

And they will go nuclear. They have a ton of warheads. Or they will pay us back by supplying Iran with anything they want, missiles, new airplanes, you name it.

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
3. A strike against them now will help collate the former republics allied against Russia.

And convince the rest of the world we are truly insane

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
4 . If we wait , Russia will grow stronger from this adventure.

They have some serious economic problems at home. For all their bluster their Military machine is in need of dire repair.

15% inflation, slowing GDP growth, contraction of population, and falling oil prices are far more important to Russia than wasting money on another Cold War, money that can rebuild their country.

Putin for all his so called evil reputation is not stupid. Why would he piss away 8 yrs of progress and his near godlike stature in Russia to start an unwinnable war?

The Russians are not stupid. This is just bluster on their part and it will end with Georgia. The Russians have a country to run, and spending away what treasure they've regained is just foolish
 
WestJetForLife
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:29 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):

I really hope you're either A: drunk or B: just being stupid after reading "Red Storm Rising" one too many times.

In todays world, as I have said NUMEROUS times before on this forum, attacking Russia would be like setting fire to a hornet's nest. If you succeed in doing so without getting stung 100 times by the little bastards, they'll still come after you with everything they got.

PS: if we ever DO get into a shooting match with Russia, this is what will most likely happen:

I need a drink.
 
jm017
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:52 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
1. Hit them now on a strategic level ... now is the time to do it while Russia's military is not on par with us and the west.

So you're suggesting an attack on Russia? They cannot FIND, much less beat Mullah Omar in Afghanistan (the Taleban are on the rise again) and you're suggesting an attack on Russia?

Right now, the US couldn't successfully take on Vatican City much less Russia. They are spread thin. They may be the most powerful country in the world, but their power has limits. And they have reached it. Even if they weren't spread thin, an attack on Russia would be foolish and, as others have said above, would result in MAD: mutually assured destruction. Russia may not be what it was, but there is an old saying that goes: Russia is never as strong as she looks. Russia is never as weak as she looks.
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
Scotty
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:56 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Arguments

1. Hit them now on a strategic level ... now is the time to do it while Russia's military is not on par with us and the west.

2. Evidently Russia is not afraid of a new cold war Weaken them now before they can commit full industrial weight behind the effort.

3. A strike against them now will help collate the former republics allied against Russia.

4 . If we wait , Russia will grow stronger from this adventure.

5. WWIII now ? or when they become even more powerful .


Scary times people , what is going to happen

Don't be so fu**ing stupid
 
mdsh00
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:02 pm

Are you kidding?

H.E.L.L. NO
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aero145
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:17 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Arguments

1. Hit them now on a strategic level ... now is the time to do it while Russia's military is not on par with us and the west.

2. Evidently Russia is not afraid of a new cold war Weaken them now before they can commit full industrial weight behind the effort.

3. A strike against them now will help collate the former republics allied against Russia.

4 . If we wait , Russia will grow stronger from this adventure.

5. WWIII now ? or when they become even more powerful .


Scary times people , what is going to happen .

What the f**k did you eat for dinner?
 
slider
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:35 pm



Quoting Aero145 (Reply 17):

What the f**k did you eat for dinner?

Stupid pills, hehe...


Seriously, a mod should lockthis thread up before it gets out of hand. Whoops, too late.

For real though. Posterity shall remember the lunacy of this one.
 
OlegShv
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:42 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):

Dude, those thoughts are insane. Just forget it. Russian military doctrine explicitly says that in case Russia can't protect itself with conventional weaponry it will not hesitate to launch an all out nuclear attack.
 
N1120A
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:47 pm

Ever hear of the doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction? It is alive and well and we would end up seeing life as we know it end.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):

The US was fighting a guerilla style war until recently. No conventional army has a prayer against the US Military even a diminished war weary one.

Russia is just dusting off it's war machine, and would not fare well throwing 25 yr old TU-95's and T-72 tanks against the USA

You appear blind.
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Emirates773ER
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:55 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
You appear blind.

No its more ego blindness brought about by frinking too much kool aid.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:08 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Hit them now on a strategic level ... now is the time to do it while Russia's military is not on par with us and the west.

 redflag 

Can you explain how "hit (Russia) now" and "strategic" belong in the same sentence?!?

Sorry friend, but you're WAY off base on thinking this is even remotely close to being a good idea.
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AGM100
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:08 pm



Quoting JM017 (Reply 14):
So you're suggesting an attack on Russia?

Not suggesting just discussing .... jeeezus . You act like I have the red phone in my bathroom ....no dont do it AGM !


I can tell you that the topic is being discussed but since name calling is better suited on here..... It is just a matter of time anyway I beleive the train has left the station. Their will be a military confrontation between us and the Russians . Its now or its with your children. Their is no way superpowers can maintain the brinkmanship we once had in this day and age. Their are too many fragments of power around the world to go to bi polar existence again. Their will be a odd man out and he will have nukes .
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don81603
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:09 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Arguments

1. Hit them now on a strategic level ... now is the time to do it while Russia's military is not on par with us and the west.

2. Evidently Russia is not afraid of a new cold war Weaken them now before they can commit full industrial weight behind the effort.

3. A strike against them now will help collate the former republics allied against Russia.

4 . If we wait , Russia will grow stronger from this adventure.

5. WWIII now ? or when they become even more powerful .

What the hell have you been smoking, and where can I get some?

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):
The US was fighting a guerilla style war until recently. No conventional army has a prayer against the US Military even a diminished war weary one.



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):
Russia is just dusting off it's war machine, and would not fare well throwing 25 yr old TU-95's and T-72 tanks against the USA

Korea and Vietnam mentallity and thinking all over again. It was a stupid idea then, and it's the same stupid idea now
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:13 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Arguments

1. Hit them now on a strategic level ... now is the time to do it while Russia's military is not on par with us and the west.

2. Evidently Russia is not afraid of a new cold war Weaken them now before they can commit full industrial weight behind the effort.

3. A strike against them now will help collate the former republics allied against Russia.

4 . If we wait , Russia will grow stronger from this adventure.

5. WWIII now ? or when they become even more powerful .

Why the hell would you want WWIII to start now? Attacking Russia now is suicide.

Let's stick to the same rules of engagement that got us through over 50 years of Cold War: Don't fire until fired upon!
 
sv7887
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:22 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):

The US was fighting a guerilla style war until recently. No conventional army has a prayer against the US Military even a diminished war weary one.

Russia is just dusting off it's war machine, and would not fare well throwing 25 yr old TU-95's and T-72 tanks against the USA

You appear blind.

Did you even read the rest of my post saying how stupid of an idea it would be to attack Russia? Don't twist the facts like you do elsewhere.

Find me one analyst who says the Russian military readiness is high and to that level of the old Soviet forces and capable of defeating the USA in open ground.

Neither military is in good shape, but the Russian one is in worse shape.

Quoting Don81603 (Reply 24):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):
The US was fighting a guerilla style war until recently. No conventional army has a prayer against the US Military even a diminished war weary one.



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):
Russia is just dusting off it's war machine, and would not fare well throwing 25 yr old TU-95's and T-72 tanks against the USA

Korea and Vietnam mentallity and thinking all over again. It was a stupid idea then, and it's the same stupid idea now

Did you read my post? I agree with you and do not advocate war.

I was responding to this:

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 3):
After the US military performance in Iraq I would not be betting on them taking out the Russians by a long shot. A attack on Russia will pretty much mean the end of USA.

The US hasn't been beaten militarily in Iraq, it has been defeated politically. You can spin that as much as you like, but ask Mutaqda Al Sadr how well Americans fight.

The original poster commented that Russia will want to destroy us. Russia is too rational and more focused on rebuilding their country than starting another Cold War

[Edited 2008-08-15 15:32:43]
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:24 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 23):
I can tell you that the topic is being discussed but since name calling is better suited on here..... It is just a matter of time anyway I beleive the train has left the station. Their will be a military confrontation between us and the Russians . Its now or its with your children. Their is no way superpowers can maintain the brinkmanship we once had in this day and age. Their are too many fragments of power around the world to go to bi polar existence again. Their will be a odd man out and he will have nukes

I'm not one to believe that the state of the world and politics is healthy right now, but you are seriously way too down on the situation. Have you been watching Red Dawn every day or something? It would have been MUCH easier to make the statements you're making in the 1960's and somehow we survived it. Why would you start a war that would likely consume the world out of fear that a war that would consume the world might start if you don't? Your credibility on any discussion involving world events or war is going to be pretty damn shaky on this board from here on I reckon (if it weren't already).

In addition to that, if it truly is "now or with your children," then I choose with my children as I believe that the scale of destruction would be so colossal as to likely include me and my children. Better to live as long as possible. Not that I think it would come to that.
 
Scotty
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:36 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 26):
Find me one analyst who says the Russian military readiness is high

The soon to be former Defence Minister of Georgia
 
janmnastami
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:42 pm

If you want to make a nuclear war between the USA and Russia, please don't bomb Italy  Smile .

A nuclear war, oh my god, we would come back to the Flinstones era.
 
N1120A
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:52 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 26):

Find me one analyst who says the Russian military readiness is high and to that level of the old Soviet forces and capable of defeating the USA in open ground.

You really think it would be tanks and foot soldiers? Hell no. It would be nuclear weapons and we would all die. Anyway, you really think the Russians don't have modern equipment? Of course they do.

If we can't handle Iraq, we definately can't handle Russia.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
sv7887
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:54 pm



Quoting Scotty (Reply 28):

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 26):
Find me one analyst who says the Russian military readiness is high

The soon to be former Defence Minister of Georgia

Ummmm ask the Russian Colonels flying a TU-22M that got shot down what they think of your statement...Why 50 yr old Colonels were flying a combat sortie should tell you something..

And what exactly does picking on a country that is 1/10th your size prove? This is like the US bombing of Grenada. Nothing was proved their either...

If you have any facts to bolster your argument let's discuss, but if this is going the usual Anet way, I might as well just stop here.
 
sv7887
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:09 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 30):
Anyway, you really think the Russians don't have modern equipment? Of course they do.

If we can't handle Iraq, we definately can't handle Russia.

Is there a single model of a new Russian aircraft, tank, or submarine that has been mass produced recently that is actually competitive with American technology?

The Borei class has a single submarine which hasn't been outfitted with missiles yet. Their airforce fields the SU-27/35 series, a great plane, but no match for the F-22.

Russia has the T-90 tank which is a renamed and redesign T-72. Again a good tank, but is it comparable to the latest Abrams tank?

Their new nuclear TOPOL-M missiles are quite formidable, and will be able to make quick work of any US anti Missile shield. If there is one point of parity it is here, and I believe this is the point you are making.

Iraq is a political quagmire. The US military is good at blowing things up, but isn't a police force. That's the problem that Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld completely were oblivious to or just plain too stupid to get.

Anytime the insurgents have engaged in direct combat with US Soldiers they've gotten beaten badly.

However, they've won the propaganda war...The dimension you are speaking of is really political.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 30):
You really think it would be tanks and foot soldiers? Hell no. It would be nuclear weapons and we would all die.

You're right, if the USA were to do what the OP says and invades Russia. They will most certainly use nukes. If I recall, the reason JFK was hesitant to attack Cuba during the Missile Crisis for this reason. If you read Essence of Decision by Graham T Allison, this is exactly what Kennedy feared about the JCS and McNamara's initial desire to attack the nuclear installations.

If I remember, Soviet commanders were armed with tactical nukes in Cuba, so any invading Marine force would have faced annihilation.

It's a lesson we still need to take heed of...
 
PPVRA
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:12 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
4 . If we wait , Russia will grow stronger from this adventure.

How in the world will something like this change the Russian mindset? Putin has an 80% approval rate. You won't be greeted by cheering Russian citizens when you walk in there!
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:14 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 23):
I beleive the train has left the station. Their will be a military confrontation between us and the Russians . Its now or its with your children. Their is no way superpowers can maintain the brinkmanship we once had in this day and age.

And so you're proposing that we go back to the Cold War era, only worse. I think your ideas are worse than your spelling...

Quoting Scotty (Reply 28):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 26):
Find me one analyst who says the Russian military readiness is high

The soon to be former Defence Minister of Georgia

The State of Georgia could walk over the Country of Georgia...
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
sv7887
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:16 pm



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 33):
Putin has an 80% approval rate. You won't be greeted by cheering Russian citizens when you walk in there!

That raises a good point: How has this skirmish in Georgia affected his popularity? Are Russians backing him?

Btw, I think this makes the farce of Medvedev even more obvious. Why would any self respecting man want to be such an obvious puppet? He's already rich having led Yukos for many years..
 
NoUFO
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:16 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 23):
I can tell you that the topic is being discussed

There is absolutely nothing to discuss, other than perhaps the level of stupidity it takes to even think of "taking out Russia's military".

The world survived the Cold War because those responsible knew perfectly well that an attack would end up in a "nuclear holocaust", followed by a "nuclear winter" killing the world's population - except for perhaps some microbes.

And now you wonder if it would be smart to throw it all away and commit suicide - out of fear for a new cold war?

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
3. A strike against them now will help collate the former republics allied against Russia.

There will be absolutely no one left to "collate the former republics allied against Russia" even if they were willing to do so.

This all is soooo wrong and idiotic on so many different levels ...
I support the right to arm bears
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:37 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 35):
Quoting PPVRA (Reply 33):
Putin has an 80% approval rate. You won't be greeted by cheering Russian citizens when you walk in there!

That raises a good point: How has this skirmish in Georgia affected his popularity? Are Russians backing him?

Btw, I think this makes the farce of Medvedev even more obvious. Why would any self respecting man want to be such an obvious puppet? He's already rich having led Yukos for many years..

Also, if the US would ever invade Russia, I think it would immediately lead to a guerilla war, same as the Russians carried out very successfully against the French under Napoleon and the Germans under Hitler. The country is huge and there are many hiding places for guerilla units.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Scotty
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:57 pm



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 37):
The country is huge and there are many hiding places for guerilla units.

Leson one - nobody ever defeated Russia by military means and nobody ever will. Fact. Get used to it USA
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:41 am



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 31):
And what exactly does picking on a country that is 1/10th your size prove? This is like the US bombing of Grenada. Nothing was proved their either...

Actually, Georgia is 1/200 the size of Russia in land area, and 1/35 the size in population.

Quoting Scotty (Reply 38):
Leson one - nobody ever defeated Russia by military means and nobody ever will. Fact. Get used to it USA

You make it sound like the USA wants to defeat Russia by military means. So far we've got one bonehead that suggested it, and everyone else saying it's a damn fool idea...

The thread starter seems to assume that the rest of the world would sit idly by watching Russia and the US duke it out. That's insanity. I'm sure that Russia is more worried about China than the US. They have been historical enemies, who share a border over 2,500 miles long. China outnumbers the Russians by over a billion people. They have industrial capacity to dwarf anything Russia could produce. So if China and Russia get into it, nukes are a certainty. Then there's India and Pakistan. Pakistan is about to put Mushareef out of office, so who knows what's going to happen over there. The US and Russia will bluster, but they're not about to go to war...
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:43 am



Quoting Scotty (Reply 38):
Get used to it USA

I take offense. The OP hardly represents the whole USA.

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 39):
You make it sound like the USA wants to defeat Russia by military means. So far we've got one bonehead that suggested it, and everyone else saying it's a damn fool idea...

exactly.
 
PPVRA
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RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:58 am



We Report, You Decide?
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Elite
Posts: 2296
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:31 pm

RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:08 am

Einstein already said.... "I do not know what weapons WW III will be fought with, but WW IV will be fought with sticks and stones".

There will be no more all out war any more. Never again shall we see countries fighting like they did in WW II. The fact is now we are too powerful to ever do that again and if we are stupid enough to go all out then it is the end of the human race and the end of this world.
 
Derico
Posts: 4206
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:18 am

Well if so then I guess the northern hemisphere would be off-limits for about 700 to 1500 years....
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
radarbeam
Posts: 998
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 9:00 am

RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:07 am

Somewhere a toolbox lost one of it's tool...

[Edited 2008-08-15 22:37:45]
 
Confuscius
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:29 am

RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:46 am

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Go get 'em!





[Edited 2008-08-15 23:49:28]
Ain't I a stinker?
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:16 am

Should The US Take Out Russia Military?

Alright I will run with the OP's post...Bush as already underestimated the Iraq war I think this dumbass thought he would go in and mop Saddam under the rug and be done with it..WRONG..This is why I hate this idiot Bush (among others). You NEVER take war with the attitude that he has. Of course he realizes he was a dumbass but he would never admit it. How many billions have we spent over there as well as american lives lost? For what? OIL??? Have we even used the Iraqi oil revenues to help pay for infastructure repair? NO. Was this a vendetta because Saddam put a hit out on Bush SR? Or OIL? Maybe both. So now we are going to take on Russia. Yeah right. Our enemies know we are spread too thin militarily to go after anyone so the only other option is nuclear and that quite simply will be the end of the world.
 
BigTom
Posts: 516
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:51 pm

RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:47 am

How about taking out China and India too while you are about it, may as well clear the table completely while you're doing it? They will be threats too eventually to the 'free world' ...

Good luck with this one

Cheers
 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:13 am

One thing Putin did do, in his time as President, was get the Strategic Forces back to a better standard, operationally, targeting and training wise.
That is, the strategic forces that matter, mainly the ICBM's.
Which include I think, fully mobile ones, (something the US never had).
Anyone who thinks that their diminished bomber fleet is the main strategic weapon against the US should wake up.

What's with this Russia being suddenly the sort of threat as in the Cold War again?
Sure they are rivals of a sort, it's a regime only nominally democratic with many unpleasant aspects to it, but rivals in some areas (not in all however), is not the same as during the Cold War.

Away from the 'for the sake of discussion', those who really think this way seem to have a need, as strong as a sexual urge it seems, to have an enemy.
For a brief time as the Cold War ended, they even considered Japan!

One reason Russia is throwing it's weight around a bit more, is that they know full well that the US is over extended, in Iraq, in Afghanistan.
To those who have it, I'd lose this myth of US invincibility, since it has existed in the past, up to December 6th 1941, before Korea, before Vietnam and let's not forget 'mission accomplished' in 2003.

However, the US, under Bush, has been provoking too.
My own view is that if former WarPac nations want to join NATO, if they meet the criteria, (which Georgia most certainly did not) ,they should have the right to.
But, the US had signed an accord with Russia that they would not expand NATO eastwards, in 1992.

To get around this, as these nations applied to join, a greater defence agreement with Russia had been mooted, sort of an associate member of NATO.
Which unilaterally, the US dumped.
This is not the only agreement they trashed with Russia, they did so, because of hubris and ignorance, just like they had over Iraq.
They really thought there would never be any consequences, like an over indulged child.

Then there is the missile defence systems in Eastern Europe.
A dubious system at the very least, both in it's stated mission and let's face it, not a star performer in testing either, it may not have any effect on the Russian strategic missile forces technically, but the symbolism is deeply offensive to the Russians.
A big price diplomatically to pay for some pork barrel project for the GOP's corporate buddies, which that whole system is.
(If US forces want defence on deployment against SCUD like threats, they have it anyway, with ship borne SM-3 missiles and when it gets to work, the airborne laser).

One of the main reasons the US failed in Vietnam, was that they just did not get where their opponents were coming from.
The Vietnamese really, honestly, saw the US involvement as colonisation, they had fought the Japanese occupiers, saw off the French colonisers too.
The US were to them, just another bunch of foreigners on their soil.
The US just never got this, never mind that they certainly did not see their mission as that, the enemy really, truly thought it was.

This group think seems to be, with those who think this way, re-asserting itself on the issue of Russia.
Look how 5 time draft dodger Cheney made some very threatening noises as the Georgia situation unfolded, which was contradicted by Sec Def Gates and even to a large extent, by Bush too.

Whatever we thought and think of the previous and current regimes there, they lost, after an attack from the West, 27 million in WW2.
Compare this with the WW2 experience of the US.
It scars their thinking to this day.
They fear 'encirclement', of course the West, (the mostly sane ones anyway), is not out to do Russia in, but again, from their history, experience, perspective, this is not so obvious.
(They also went on to inflict 80% of the casualties suffered by the ground forces of Nazi Germany, forget Hollywood movies and any BS you might have been 'taught').

So they are paranoid for a reason, no matter how dubious or wrong headed it may seem, what I'd like to know is, the reason for similar paranoia from some in the US.
(Those that are, also usually are the also ones who use, in any discussion with Europeans, the 'we saved your butts in WW2' BS merchants. Well consider that event from the Russian point of view, then do us all a favour and STFU).

Russia does need firm but careful handling, the sort of regime Putin has set up is not inevitable or certain to last.
But it will if they feel really threatened.
Remember, they see their action in Georgia in exactly the same way as NATO saw their actions in Kosovo.
 
Beaucaire
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:18 am

Please meet Nils Olav

who received Norwegian knighthood
Nils Olav already has medals for good conduct and long service. He made honorary colonel-in-chief of the elite Norwegian King's Guard in 2005. And on Friday he was knighted. Not bad for a 3-foot tall penguin

Actually this penguin has most likely more military intelligence and understanding than AGM 100 -that's why he has been promoted "Colonel in Chief"..
Good try though for a thread that will be going nowhere..

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5236/01020127212300un9.jpg

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/2968/01020127213400zs7.jpg

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/43/01020127214200rj9.jpg

What a great country Norway - they put the emphanzis where it belongs..

[Edited 2008-08-16 02:25:17]
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
Scotty
Posts: 1846
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 1999 10:51 pm

RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:06 pm



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 38):
take offense

None intended. In this context "USA" means specifically the current administration.

Clearly the population of the USA, based on what I have seen in the media and now in editorials in todays US newspapers, are far more capable of assessing what they see and hear and forming their own opinions than Bush gives you credit for
 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Should The US Take Out Russia Military

Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:42 pm

Writer Paul Kennedy, has this to say on the implications of this conflict;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/16/russia.georgia

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