sean1234
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Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:10 am

So I am in California, and I am contesting a speeding ticket. The court provides, for my convenience and theirs the right to trial by written declaration (by mail). I got busted for 71 in a 55 zone on a one lane highway. Basically the cop was coming in the opposite direction, stopped, turned around and pulled me over. Since I had just passed someone prior to this my speed was up a bit. I am thinking maybe I could cite the minimum safe speed law, which hopefully can be broadly interpreted here.


22400. (a) No person shall drive upon a highway at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, unless the reduced speed is necessary for safe operation, because of a grade, or in compliance with law.


It is probably written just for traffic in the same direction. But I think it could be reasonably read to apply also to opposing traffic, as someone on the wrong side could
block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic from the opposite direction.
 
57AZ
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:28 am



Quoting Sean1234 (Thread starter):
Since I had just passed someone prior to this my speed was up a bit. I am thinking maybe I could cite the minimum safe speed law, which hopefully can be broadly interpreted here.

You can try that angle, but I wouldn't think that the traffic court judge will give it a broad interpretation. Speeding is a strict liability offense. All the officer has to do is prove that you were traveling in excess of the speed limit. If 55 is the maximum speed authorized in the zone where you were cited, you cannot argue (successfully) the minimum safe speed code. If you were passing on a two lane highway, your obligation would be to follow the slower vehicle until reaching a point where you can safely pass it without endangering approaching motor vehicles while maintaining a legal speed.
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Blackbird
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:36 am

No, you can't exceed the speed-limit to pass someone legally, even though it's common-practice.

Blackbird
 
57AZ
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:45 am



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 2):
No, you can't exceed the speed-limit to pass someone legally, even though it's common-practice.

Depends on state statutes. Here in Arizona, one statute does permit authorized funeral escort vehicles (marked vehicles displaying red and blue lights to the front and rear) to exceed the posted speed limits by no more than 15 miles an hour for the purpose of overtaking the lead vehicle in the procession. The situation this typically applies in is where an escort vehicle stops to block cross traffic at a signaled intersection and then must return to the lead position in the procession.
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Mike89406
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:57 am

It depends on the state law but from what I remember from my drivers ed days in high school in Washington State. You can overtake a car by exceeding the speed limit by10 mph and once you have returned in to the appropiate lane once passing the car then you must return to the speed limit.

Mike
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:19 am



Quoting Sean1234 (Thread starter):
It is probably written just for traffic in the same direction. But I think it could be reasonably read to apply also to opposing traffic, as someone on the wrong side could
block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic from the opposite direction.

If you need to speed up enough to avoid opposing traffic, I'd think you probably shouldn't have been passing in the first place.

Not to mention, if the guy you passed was doing, say, 60, I'm sure the court would say there was no need for you to pass him.

Then again, I also wouldn't contest a ticket for 71 in a 55.
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mham001
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:26 am

I got caught in the exact same situation in Nevada once. 90 in a 70 in my motorcycle. The Sate Patrol was a rider though and gave me an environmental ticket. $10 I think, no points. I love Nevada attitudes.
 
Flighty
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:45 am

Quoting AZ" class=quote target=_blank>57AZ (Reply 3):
Depends on state statutes. Here in Arizona,

I got stopped by AZ state patrol for going 76 (!) in a 65mph 2-lane north of freakin' Page AZ in the middle of the desert. Trooper was stationed at the 1 safest passing zone, and pulled me over. If he gave me a ticket I would have considered flying back just to contest that bullsh**. Fortunately he let me go.

But it got me thinking about this exact question. Of course going 76mph passing someone is just fine in the Arizona desert. That cop was punishing me for a good, safe pass that I was proud of. Stupidest sh&* i've ever been pulled over for, and that's saying a lot. This trooper was actually punishing good safe driving, and I was mad he wasted my time (of course was very polite to him).

On behalf of Arizona law enforcement he made clear it is illegal to exceed the speed limit even when executing a pass. I expressed mild doubt at this but he stood firm. Of course, needless to say, that interpretation of the law is completely impractical and could encourage unsafe situations -- even death, due to sluggish passing and subsequent collisions. There's a safety reason to pull smartly ahead.

[Edited 2008-08-17 23:52:54]
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:54 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 7):
Stupidest sh&* i've ever been pulled over for, and that's saying a lot.

I had a buddy (who is famous for driving like an old lady, in an old lady's buick) get pulled over for doing 77 in a 75 zone by an AZ trooper almost in the border with Nevada. Talk about a cop having nothing better to do.  Yeah sure
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:39 am

In MA you cannot go above the speed limit to pass someone. They essentially have to be going way below the speed limit and you need to stay below it to pass.

Frankly, the way people drive around here, you would have to pass someone driving 50mph at something like 70 because people around here hate passers and will intentionally speed up to keep you from passing them...
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andz
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:21 pm



Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 9):
people around here hate passers and will intentionally speed up to keep you from passing them

Now that is something that deserves a quick trip to jail. It is infantile and dangerous.
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AirCop
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:10 pm



Quoting Sean1234 (Thread starter):
So I am in California, and I am contesting a speeding ticket. The court provides, for my convenience and theirs the right to trial by written declaration (by mail). I got busted for 71 in a 55 zone on a one lane highway. Basically the cop was coming in the opposite direction, stopped, turned around and pulled me over. Since I had just passed someone prior to this my speed was up a bit. I am thinking maybe I could cite the minimum safe speed law, which hopefully can be broadly interpreted here.



Quoting Sean1234 (Thread starter):
22400. (a) No person shall drive upon a highway at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, unless the reduced speed is necessary for safe operation, because of a grade, or in compliance with law.


#1 - Since this appears to be a radar ticket, you're screwed, go to traffic school, the judge is going to laugh about the part "my speed was up a bit" 16 mph over? What county did this high crime happen?

#2 - The section you quoted was designed to freeways. I never cited it on a two-lane highway, besides based on your speed, I guessing the other vehicle speed was somewhere near the posted limit anyways.

But on the plus side trial by written declaration, after you mail in your response, it goes to the officer who then files his account. It's been rumored sometimes the officers realize that they won't get any overtime, the written declaration from the officers never makes back to the court which results in a not-guilty.
 
greasespot
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:59 pm

speeding tickets are the easiest to defend from the police side. Pretty much as long as the radar is tested at the beginning of shift and the end of shift you will lose. All I have to prove is you were speeding and have reasonable grounds i identified the correct driver....then it does not matter the reason or place. The posted speed is X...and you were going X+...and i used the radar or paced you with my cruiser your guilty.....With our electronic ticketing it also takes the chance of me making a fatal error on a ticket out of the equation...

Probably similar everywhere.

Plus our court dates are scheduled for work days so it gets rid of the cop did not show up for court. If we do no and do not have a good reason we can be charged with neglect of duty.

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
TylerDurden
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:31 pm



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 5):
Then again, I also wouldn't contest a ticket for 71 in a 55.

Up to you....depends on if your worried about points on your license (which depends on your State). I have no issue paying the fine...I just don't want my driving record in jeopardy.

I've never had a speeding ticket stick--half were by radar--the others pace (which are incredibly easy to get out of....). I get about two a year in Texas.

Parking tickets are another matter....

Just depends on how much time your willing to set aside for it...
 
SlamClick
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:37 pm



Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 9):
people around here hate passers and will intentionally speed up to keep you from passing them...

That is clearly vehicular assault. If there was an oncoming car it would be a matter of self-preservation and I would unhesitatingly force that car off the road in self-defense to prevent a head-on collision. I began the pass legally and with normal expectation that the car ahead would, at most, maintain its speed.

I drive fairly fast but always cooperate with any car attempting to pass me. If I am going 90 mph down a mountain road and someone comes up behind me wanting to go 110 it is none of my business. I am not the cops and I am not a speed bump.

* * *


It is my undertanding that in California the only absolute is the Federal 55 limit where it applies. Any other speed limit is based on a "rebuttable presumption" that it is unsafe. To beat a speeding ticket on that basis, however, it would probably be necessary for you to get the arresting officer to note that the roadway was safe, the weather was good, visibility was okay, your car and its tires were in good condition, you seemed alert and aware and no other vehicle was endangered. I'll bet you didn't do thost things did you?

I once drove a highway patrol officer's Corvette and came up a freeway onramp at 100 mph with her in the car with me. She said, owing to the conditions, that I might be able to talk my way out of a ticket but she couldn't help me there. Barring that I might have been able to talk my way down to a lower speed on the ticket but, once the ticket was written, it was her opinion that there would be no beating it.
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AirCop
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:05 pm



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 14):
It is my undertanding that in California the only absolute is the Federal 55 limit where it applies. Any other speed limit is based on a "rebuttable presumption" that it is unsafe.

No that's not correct. The rebuttable presumption or unsafe speed for conditions falls under 22350 CVC for speed limits under 55 mph.

22349. (a) Except as provided in Section 22356 (70 mph), no person may drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than 65 miles per hour.

(b) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no person may drive a vehicle upon a two-lane, undivided highway at a speed greater than 55 miles per hour unless that highway, or portion thereof, has been posted for a higher speed by the Department of Transportation or appropriate local agency upon the basis of an engineering and traffic survey. For purposes of this subdivision, the following apply:

(1) A two-lane, undivided highway is a highway with not more than one through lane of travel in each direction.

So basically our tread starter is out of luck with a defense. Think traffic school..
 
sean1234
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:42 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 11):
What county did this high crime happen?

This happened in Calaveras Co on Hwy 4 near Copperopolis.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:54 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 15):

Thank you. I stand corrected. It has been a long time since I attended

Quoting AirCop (Reply 15):
traffic school

...which I agree is the guy's best option. In fact every driver should do one of these.

Another word of advice. You probably could have seen or anticipated the police better. Paying attention to that sort of thing will have a minor benefit of getting you fewer tickets. The real benefit is the reduction in accident risk when you actually pay attention to conditions around your car.

Huge believer here in the idea that a ticket you just got is a crash you just dodged.
Accept it as a painless wakeup call, not on speed so much as situational awareness.
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PHLBOS
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:18 pm



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 14):
It is my undertanding that in California the only absolute is the Federal 55 limit where it applies.

The Federal limit(s) were scrapped back in late 1995.
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ACDC8
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:30 pm



Quoting Greasespot (Reply 12):
speeding tickets are the easiest to defend from the police side

Which is the very reason why the police enforce speeding so much compared to other moving violations such as cruising in the left lane, blocking intersections, running yellow lights, not stopping for pedestrians at a flashing crosswalk, cyclists doing what ever the hell they want, failing to yield, etc. Easy to defend, easy money.

As far as I know in BC, you have to obey the posted speedlimits at all times. Not that most people do .... Big grin
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N1120A
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:54 pm



Quoting Sean1234 (Thread starter):
The court provides, for my convenience and theirs the right to trial by written declaration (by mail).

I have done a trial by declaration on a ticket I absolutely should have won on and they took the cop's side. I would go to court if you think you have any chance of beating it.

Quoting Sean1234 (Thread starter):
Since I had just passed someone prior to this my speed was up a bit. I am thinking maybe I could cite the minimum safe speed law, which hopefully can be broadly interpreted here.

The Basic Speed Law is rather weak in California, as there are so many subsequent restrictions on speed. Now, you are allowed to speed if you are in some sort of danger, but it doesn't sound like you were. That said, just how did this cop catch you if they were driving in the other direction?

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 14):

It is my undertanding that in California the only absolute is the Federal 55 limit where it applies.

There is no Federal 55 anymore.
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SlamClick
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:58 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
There is no Federal 55 anymore.

That's already been posted.
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Flighty
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:06 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
Now, you are allowed to speed if you are in some sort of danger, but it doesn't sound like you were.

While executing a lawful pass, there is a risk of a head-on collision with oncoming traffic. This is highly, highly dangerous. This is exactly why speeding should be / is often treated as legal during a lawful pass (i.e., especially when passing someone who is under the limit). It is legal to begin the pass. The question is, what is the safest way to complete it? Going 65mph, or 75-80? May I suggest clearly the latter, in most cases?
 
TylerDurden
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:10 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 15):
So basically our tread starter is out of luck with a defense. Think traffic school..

Huh? If you have an attorney, the dismissal rate in California is over 80%. In some jurisdictions,, it's over 95%.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 17):
...which I agree is the guy's best option. In fact every driver should do one of these.

Hell no. Contest it. Those online safety classes are a waste of time.
You'll get a ton of advertisements from law firms to get your ticket dismissed for a flat fee, typically $75 or so.
Do it. They have junior associates that typically do nothing but do traffic charges.

You'll easily spend twice that in driver safety class and the court fee to take it....

I've had at least 15 tickets dismissed in the last 6 or so years.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:20 pm



Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 23):
Huh? If you have an attorney, the dismissal rate in California is over 80%. In some jurisdictions,, it's over 95%.

People hire attorneys to get out of speeding tickets?

I have just found thru experience that if you just go in there without an attitude and seem like remorseful, you stand a far better chance of getting out of trouble (based on two experiences with the Mass Staties...)

Now, that being said, what would the fee be to get a lawyer? Cheaper than paying a surcharge for a few years and the ticket cost (if not at least reduced to being with)?

A ballpark figure works for anyone who knows...
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Moose135
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:48 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 22):
While executing a lawful pass, thre is a risk of a head-on collision with oncoming traffic. This is highly, highly dangerous. This is exactly why speeding should be / is often treated as legal during a lawful pass

If you have to speed to avoid a head-on collision, it may be argued that it wasn't safe to make the pass in the first place.
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jetblueguy22
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:21 pm



Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 9):
Frankly, the way people drive around here, you would have to pass someone driving 50mph at something like 70 because people around here hate passers and will intentionally speed up to keep you from passing them...

People in Mass and people in CT are crazy drivers. When my cousin lived in Mass he called some drivers Mass holes.
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bristolflyer
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:49 pm



Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 24):
People hire attorneys to get out of speeding tickets?

It's the American way! People who can't stand up and take responsibility for their actions do stuff like that. Speaking of which...

Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 23):
I've had at least 15 tickets dismissed in the last 6 or so years.

With tickets coming about once every six months, don't you think it's time to consider public transport?
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Flighty
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:52 pm



Quoting Moose135 (Reply 25):

If you have to speed to avoid a head-on collision, it may be argued that it wasn't safe to make the pass in the first place.

It's just the reality in the rural American roads I have seen. There is generally enough traffic that it's safer to speed up. Even if you can't see any incoming traffic, it's safer to speed up so you are not caught unexpectedly without the speed to complete the pass, and are forced to abort. This is just dangerous. It is well known in these places how much safer it is to have a fast accelerating vehicle, to complete these passes more quickly and more safely. Mostly, this involves breaking the speed limit I am sorry to say. It's just a way of life, which is why I am dismayed at this thread. If I have to break the law to keep myself and loved ones safer, screw it, that is what I will do. It is safer for fellow drivers as well. And I am not being mealy-mouthed. 2-lane passing has always been a major safety issue, not to be trifled with.
 
102IAHexpress
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:59 pm



Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 24):
People hire attorneys to get out of speeding tickets?

Indeed. Think about it. What if you drive a big rig or have a commercial drivers license. One ticket conviction and you’re out of a job. No money for food, rent, etc..

Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 24):
Now, that being said, what would the fee be to get a lawyer? Cheaper than paying a surcharge for a few years and the ticket cost (if not at least reduced to being with)?

Usually 75 for the defense of one ticket. Add at least another 25 for each additional offense. Add another 25, if you were cited in a school zone. Double everything if you’re a CDL driver because your case is guaranteed to got to trial (In Texas, CDL drivers are not eligible for driver safety courses or deferred adjudication).
 
kmh1956
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:08 am



Quoting Jetblueguy22 (Reply 26):
he called some drivers Mass holes.

Nothing's changed....my daughter in NH calls them that too.

However, to the topics at hand. if you were doing 71 in a 55, you were speeding. Pay the damn ticket. You were in the wrong.
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
N1120A
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:09 am



Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 24):

People hire attorneys to get out of speeding tickets?

It really depends, but sure?

Quoting BristolFlyer (Reply 27):

It's the American way! People who can't stand up and take responsibility for their actions do stuff like that.

What? People who can't stand up and take responsibility hire defense attorneys? So, should we deny lawyers to those accused of crimes now? Or perhaps we should berate them for "not accepting responsibility?"

Quoting BristolFlyer (Reply 27):

With tickets coming about once every six months, don't you think it's time to consider public transport?

I am sure some of those are parking tickets.
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AirCop
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:51 am



Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 23):
You'll get a ton of advertisements from law firms to get your ticket dismissed for a flat fee, typically $75 or so.
Do it. They have junior associates that typically do nothing but do traffic charges.

In California, in about fifteen years of writing traffic citations for CHP I only seen 1 person ever bring an attorney to fight a traffic citation and that wasn't my case, and that included Los Angeles, the Bay Area, and extreme Northern California.
 
greasespot
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:54 am

All tickets are easy to defend......in this job you get good at going to court and you think we go around ticketing people frivolously....We know what the facts and issues(evidence) are required to charge....most traffic charges you have a slim chance of getting off.....unless you get a lawyer....remember we are used to court and that gives us a huge advantage.

if your charged at the scene of a accident it shoots chances of getting the charge tossed shoots up a lot...collisions are more subjective...we take what one person says and then the other and then make a decision as to who is at fault and who gets charged....in those cases because people get off because they are everyday people and not trained in facts and issues on courts

Other than when i make a mistake on the ticket or a collision, or when i was brand new i have not lost on a general ticket....I do not know any others who have lost either
GS

Note: this is in Ontario, Canada....cannot speak for other places
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
TylerDurden
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:19 am



Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 24):
A ballpark figure works for anyone who knows...

Texas is generally $50-75...it's actually fairly competitive--and it's a flat fee in most cases for speeding or other violations that did not involve an accident. Naturally, it does not cover DUI.

Quoting BristolFlyer (Reply 27):
With tickets coming about once every six months, don't you think it's time to consider public transport?

Why? I have a heavy foot. I also have a clean driving record. As they say, if you don't like my driving....stay off the sidewalk.  Smile

Quoting N1120A (Reply 30):
I am sure some of those are parking tickets.

I wish. But, I AM getting better about speeding. With the exception of running a stop sign (dismissed)..the rest were all speeding (all dismissed as well).

Quoting AirCop (Reply 32):
In California, in about fifteen years of writing traffic citations for CHP I only seen 1 person ever bring an attorney to fight a traffic citation and that wasn't my case, and that included Los Angeles, the Bay Area, and extreme Northern California.

Statistics would say otherwise.
Quick search shows that L.A. County has a roughly 85.5 dismissal rate on moving offenses when represented by counsel. It appears that the top four firms that handle this, had roughly 578 dismissals in July. Keep in mind that there are literally hundreds of firms that can handle its...so I imagine the figure is well over 1,000 dismisals a month..at least.

Of course, lets temper this with the thousand tickets daily being given (or whatever it is..).

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 33):
remember we are used to court and that gives us a huge advantage.

Respectively disagree with that. It's likely some attorney that handles say 30 cases a day for five or ten years and knows every loophole and defense probably has an advantage (since the dismissal rate is over 85%--some could say that it basically proves that) Of course, it doesn't work about 15% of the time...so hardly a sure bet.
But I understand your argument.

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 33):
do not know any others who have lost either

Well, I don't know Canadian law, but again, someone must be losing in California and Texas since the dismissal rate is so high, right?

Thanks for your replies.
 
greasespot
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:41 am



Quoting Greasespot (Reply 33):
.unless you get a lawyer

Ummmm did you miss that part? I think i covered with lawyer....but them most but them in over two years of ticket writing i hit my first lawyer the other day in court....was for speeding....I won because there is very little way to get off speeding if you do the correct things before and after.....IE testing the radar.

we used to lose more when we had wrote tickets because we would make mistakes writing them out usually forgetting to sign or putting wrong charge number or plate info........however we have switched to electronic tickets that pulls the info from the license and plate we run directly....therefore...way less errors...

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
RJdxer
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:48 am



Quoting Sean1234 (Thread starter):
Since I had just passed someone prior to this my speed was up a bit.

Long ago and far away I was passing a person on an open stretch of 2 lane highway. I was on my motorcycle, sounded my horn, flashed my bright light, started around and BAM, the idiot turned left right into my bike!!!!! I thought I was lucky to get out of the accident with a broken foot and a destroyed bike, right up until I got the ticket for reckless op in the mail. I contested it and went to court, where the female judge found me guilty and fined me 100 bucks plus court costs. I found out about a week later that she (yes a female judge) had been stiffed at the alter a few weeks before and was taking revenge on every male defendant. I bought a railroad conductors cap and sent it to her with note saying she was running a fine railroad.

Just pay it. If you're going to speed, just consider it the cost of doing business.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
AirCop
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:58 am



Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 34):
Quick search shows that L.A. County has a roughly 85.5 dismissal rate on moving offenses when represented by counsel.

I did notice one law firm claiming that rate, but I did notice from several web sites law firms if seems that it was in the mid-90's when law firms started doing traffic offenses big time, since I transfered out of the LA area back in 1980 I never experience this.

I do agree that radar (photo and otherwise) in cities for the most part is nothing more than a way to raise revenue. Even the Arizona Gov. in her proposal for photo radar on the freeway admitted it was needed to raise $$$, and to do this she agreed that people that got photo radar tickets on the freeway would not get any points.

One other thing, let it be known that the rank and file of the California Highway Patrol, along with the truckers association fought tooth and nail to prevent radar being used on the freeway. The CHP was the last state to authorize radar on the freeway. Personally, I think radar makes an officer lazy, and therefore they are not looking for other accident causing violations.
(disclaimer, the CHP get zero from the fines on traffic violations)
 
TylerDurden
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:33 am



Quoting AirCop (Reply 37):
I did notice one law firm claiming that rate, but I did notice from several web sites law firms if seems that it was in the mid-90's when law firms started doing traffic offenses big time, since I transferred out of the LA area back in 1980 I never experience this.

I pulled Superior Court records---by dismissals ---by violation---by firm for Los Angeles County (it takes too long to pull all of them that's why I just did the top four) . So, the number of cases...and their dismail rate of 85.5% is a reality...not a claim, for July. I did May quickly and it was over 90%....so I have a feeling it fluctuates within about a 5% tolerance.

I'd say the corresponding increase in their popularity coincides with the abilitiy of attorney's to advertise for services in California. Would make sense, I think. Probability why you didn't see too many of them back then....
 
N1120A
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:25 pm



Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 34):
With the exception of running a stop sign (dismissed)..

I actually got one of those not long ago and I set a trial date. I will probably take someone from the office with me.

Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 34):

Why? I have a heavy foot.

And some bad luck apparently.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Flighty
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:39 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 39):
And some bad luck apparently.

 checkmark 

I just learned how to spot cops and anticipate them. A lot cheaper and easier than law school, plus no court time.
 
TylerDurden
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:13 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 39):
I actually got one of those not long ago and I set a trial date. I will probably take someone from the office with me.

Unless it was on camera...it likely will be dismissed the minute to try and set a court date.
 Smile

Quoting N1120A (Reply 39):
And some bad luck apparently.

I drive a lot. Apparently too fast, at times. But nothing reckless. Most have been for 15-20 over---all on highways in the city. There was a single 45 in 35. I'll agree..it's absolutely careless on my part.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 40):
I just learned how to spot cops and anticipate them

They'll get ya. Don't worry--it's inevitable unless you drive like granny. Few police officers will disagree. It's hardly the end of the world.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 40):
easier than law school,

Uh...do you really think I went to law school to get out of speeding tickets? Or were you trying to be funny. Either way---doesn't work. At any rate---lawyers rarely represent themeselves---maybe in small claims court.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 40):
A lot cheaper

Favors are free...quid pro quo. Most just want a referral is someone needs their service. But yeah...some tickets do require a mandatory appearance in traffic court--but if your tight with the clerks they take you first so it's a 15 minute affair.

I'm not boasting about tickets---I'm doing my best to set my cruise control at a reasonable speed so this doesn't continue. Problem is that any active/adaptive cruise control is a bitch to use in the city---even on the highway...

Thanks for the replies---I think.
 Smile
 
N1120A
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:04 am



Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 41):

Unless it was on camera...it likely will be dismissed the minute to try and set a court date.

I already set the date online.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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Moose135
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:58 am



Quoting AirCop (Reply 37):
I do agree that radar (photo and otherwise) in cities for the most part is nothing more than a way to raise revenue.

 checkmark 

If they really want to have people drive at the speed limit, they need to have marked patrol cars cruising up and down the highway AT THE SPEED LIMIT. Usually the only time you see a patrol car driving on the highway is when they are blowing past you, 20+ over the limit, to get to their favorite radar spot.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
57AZ
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RE: Is It Legal To Speed When Passing Someone

Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:54 am

One of the most effective ways that I have seen traffic speeds controlled was when I was living in Chattanooga, Tennessee. The Chattanooga Police Department-Traffic Division would have a marked patrol car placed in the center lane of the Amnicola Highway where the two major feeder roads came together at an interchange. This unit was there every morning and afternoon rush hour with the lightbar and flashers on. Spotting the police car would cause the drivers to slow to the speed limit-reminding many of them that the Police Station was only a mile down the highway. The police department also used patrol cars that were not in service, parking them at different locations and occasionally swapping a dummy unit with a manned unit running radar/laser.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."

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