Beaucaire
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President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:16 am

...just announced five minutes ago,after a one hour speech on Pakistani TV,he decided to retire from his position, advancing an impeachment process launched against him some weeks ago..
What now Pakistan ????

[Edited 2008-08-18 01:44:05]
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Elite
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:36 am

 
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yowza
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:37 am

I'm up at this ungodly hour getting ready to head off to SAN and saw his resignation live on BBC World. There's something not quite right about how all of this is unfolding, but then again there is so little transparency in Pakistani politics that this uneasiness is almost natural. I wonder who's going to take the post and what stance they will take with the US, UK and Gulf States.

YOWza
 
Elite
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:39 am



Quoting YOWza (Reply 2):
take the post and what stance they will take with the US, UK and Gulf States.

Given that Musharraf was "pro-US" I am thinking that whoever takes his spot will be the opposite from him.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:47 am

Interesting to Know the truth on the Betrayl of Kargil.
Vajpayee & Nawaz Sharief would be keen to know.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
bravo45
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:12 am



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
What now Pakistan ????

While the west will mourn, Pakistani's will celebrate. The only concern is that there is no good leader on this horizon unless new elections are held. The sun will dawn on Pakistan with one less scum as a politician. Hope he is held to account for what he did, but then those who could make that happen themselves have a lot to answer.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 4):

Geez Mel bhai, enough with your obsession.
 
OHLHD
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:17 am

I just read that he is considering to go to exil in Saudi-Arabia.
 
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OA260
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:32 am

I just hope whoever takes his place can bring some sort of peace and stability to Pakistan.
 
baroque
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:54 am



Quoting Elite (Reply 3):
Given that Musharraf was "pro-US" I am thinking that whoever takes his spot will be the opposite from him.

Given that most Pakistanis are anti US at present as much as they are anti terrorists, maybe a more useful way forward might emerge - always assuming the US will keep its fingers out of the pudding while it is being cooked.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:29 am



Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 5):
Geez Mel bhai, enough with your obsession.

Javed bhai....its an obsession of 1.13 billion Indians regards to Kargil a few Pakistani's with regards to the mistreatment of Democracy in pakistan... wink 

Quoting OA260 (Reply 7):

I just hope whoever takes his place can bring some sort of peace and stability to Pakistan.

I Wonder who this person is.

Also rumoured that Mushy might move to Saudia Arabia.....The wheel has turned a full circle.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Beaucaire
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:47 pm

So can we assume the "father of the Islamic bomb" - Nawaz Sharif -will become the next ruler of Pakistan ?
He might be a much less willing ally of the West and pursue Pakistan's interests with less considerations to the American and European concerns.
I don't know his detailed political program,but what are his thoughts about the tribal area conflicts between Paschtuns and Military ,ISI control,further development of ICBM technology ,relations with India..
Would be great to have some Pakistani a.net member get us some update
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sv7887
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:54 pm



Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 5):
The only concern is that there is no good leader on this horizon unless new elections are held. The sun will dawn on Pakistan with one less scum as a politician. Hope he is held to account for what he did, but then those who could make that happen themselves have a lot to answer.

The problem Pakistan faces is the same even India or America faces, one less scumbag in a pool full of them. Is Nawaz Sharif any better?

I don't know much about Musharaff, but I was under the impression the Pakistani economy was doing well under him.

Quoting Elite (Reply 3):
Quoting YOWza (Reply 2):
take the post and what stance they will take with the US, UK and Gulf States.

Given that Musharraf was "pro-US" I am thinking that whoever takes his spot will be the opposite from him.

I have to imagine this is true, but how much of that will be rhetoric? The US and Pakistan have had strong relations for sometime now. I doubt that will really change, but I suspect on a superficial level things might change, but both Pakistan and the US profit from their relationship.
 
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yowza
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:32 pm



Quoting OHLHD (Reply 6):
I just read that he is considering to go to exil in Saudi-Arabia.

He wouldn't be the first and likely won't be the last  Smile

Quoting OA260 (Reply 7):
I just hope whoever takes his place can bring some sort of peace and stability to Pakistan.

I hope so too but the outlook does not appear great.

To tell you the truth what worries me the most is the fact that Musharraf's replacement in all likelihood will not be a (ex)military type. Without that respect from the armed forces you never know what some of the military brass might get up to. That sort of dissarray is scary at the best of times but given Pakistan's nuclear capacity that downright scares the shit out of me.

Better the evil you know than the evil you don't know.

YOWza
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:33 pm

Nawaz Sharif will not be the next eader of Pakistan by any means infact if anything he second in line to Mr Zardari who is the widower of Benazir and running her party as well. For those of you who don't know his history I suggest reading him up, he is also getting ready to run for president. God help my country through this!
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:49 pm



Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 5):
the west will mourn

-
Hardly. General Musharraf was not so immensely popular in the West, and detested by many. The West mourned about Mrs Bhutto, but will not do so in regard to General Musharraf.
-

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 9):
regards to Kargil

-
I suppose you here refer to the Jammu&Kashmir matter in which General Musharraf played some role (s) ?

Quoting YOWza (Reply 12):
what worries me the most is the fact that Musharraf's replacement in all likelihood will not be a (ex)military type. Without that respect from the armed forces you never know what some of the military brass might get up to. That sort of dissarray is scary at the best of times but given Pakistan's nuclear capacity that downright scares the shit out of me.

-
Changes of government figures, President or Prime Minister, did happen and will happen. If a non-military person becomes president, this person will have to live with the possibility that one of the generals might decide to "save the nation". But all this is not a reason to be too much scared.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:31 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 14):
I suppose you here refer to the Jammu&Kashmir matter in which General Musharraf played some role (s) ?

Kargil
Nawaz sharief was peacemaking in Lahore with Vajpaee,while Mushy was sending disguised troops into kargil & the Indian PM had to tell the Pakistani Pm about it.  Smile

Unless the Army lets democracy function in pakistan,there will be another coup soon.And the politicians need to clean the system too & work for their country & not themselves.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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OA260
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:02 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15):
Unless the Army lets democracy function in pakistan,there will be another coup soon.And the politicians need to clean the system too & work for their country & not themselves.

True I agree with you there .  checkmark   checkmark 
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:11 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15):
the politicians need to clean the system too & work for their country & not themselves.

-
Might be nice if they did do so !
 
sw733
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:28 pm

I had the pleasure of meeting the interim Pakistani president, Muhammad Soomro, when he was lecturing at the University of Kansas about 3 years ago. Very, very smart individual who I think has a great opportunity to put Pakistan on a good track. I know he is only interim, but I certainly was impressed with him.

I wish the Pakistani people the best!
 
bravo45
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:14 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 9):
Javed bhai....its an obsession of 1.13 billion Indians regards to Kargil

All 1.3 billion on the wrong side of the border to matter.  Smile

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 10):
So can we assume the "father of the Islamic bomb" - Nawaz Sharif

In correct, he is not the father of the 'Islamic bomb'. BTW I don't understand there was never a Godless or Communist bomb, never a Christian, Jewish or a Hindu bomb (from time long before Pakistan ever set out to get one), but the world was scared of the Islamic bomb. The hypocrisy is pretty old.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 11):
The problem Pakistan faces is the same even India or America faces, one less scumbag in a pool full of them.

Yup! Only much more exaggerated.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 11):
Is Nawaz Sharif any better?

Absolutely not. Now gotta get rid of others.  Smile

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 11):
I don't know much about Musharaff, but I was under the impression the Pakistani economy was doing well under him.

That is actually true. Pakistan has made a lot of progress under him, but I believe and most Pakistanis don't doubt that Pakistan could have done a lot better, and that Musharraf was a cap on the potential rather than a stimulus for it. I don't believe in supporting his with what he was only because 'everyone is bad but Pakistan is doing good' when Pakistan ought to have been doing better.

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 13):
Nawaz Sharif will not be the next eader of Pakistan by any means infact if anything he second in line to Mr Zardari who is the widower of Benazir and running her party as well. For those of you who don't know his history I suggest reading him up, he is also getting ready to run for president. God help my country through this!

May Allah have mercy on Pakistan, not a lot of people are a fan of Sharif either but Zardari is the night even his own party dreads, let alone the entire country. I hope somehow both can be sidelined for good. But what is the chance of that right now? I'd hate to have the subsequent events to make me say; It wouldn't have been this bad under Musharraf. But then again, I think Pakistanis deserve a chance to make things better, hopefully we'll make the right choice.

BTW I get furious over the western obsession with Benazir, all those countries where people think she was a great leader could have had her, it would have been better for both her and Pakistan (not so much for that country Wink ).

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 14):
Hardly. General Musharraf was not so immensely popular in the West, and detested by many. The West mourned about Mrs Bhutto, but will not do so in regard to General Musharraf.

Well I see your point but the fact is that they thought he was their best bet to control Pakistan, that was in itself enough of a reason for the people of Pakistan to throw his out. The west will never learn. I am in a way proud of how things turned out to be, people globally don't understand the status quo was unsustainable in Pakistan. This is a peaceful end to the stagnation, the other although could have totally changed the political landscape (Pakistan can use that) could been bloody and who knows what would have come out of it.

So still a whole lot of junk in Pakistan to clean, I hope Musharraf is brought to justice but understand that those who can make it happen have probably more to answer, but then again I'd never underestimate Pakistan. May Pakistan prosper... Aameen!!
 
victrola
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:53 pm



Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 19):
In correct, he is not the father of the 'Islamic bomb'. BTW I don't understand there was never a Godless or Communist bomb, never a Christian, Jewish or a Hindu bomb (from time long before Pakistan ever set out to get one), but the world was scared of the Islamic bomb. The hypocrisy is pretty old.

Unlike the above mentioned countries, Pakistan has been very reckless by sharing its nuclear secrets with all sorts of unsavory creatures like North Korea. The country is hopelessly unstable, and it has an intelligence service with extensive ties to the Taliban. Unlike Communists, Christians, Jews, and Hindus, Islam has produced a legion of suicide bombers. Sooner or later one of those bombers will be nuclear with the probable aid of Pakistan.
 
unattendedbag
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:27 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
he decided to retire from his position,

Im pretty sure he resigned, not retired.

There is a BIG difference!
Slower traffic, keep right
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:51 am



Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
True I agree with you there .

Finally We agreed on Something  Smile

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 19):
All 1.3 billion on the wrong side of the border to matter.

Thats the right side of the border,javed bhai,the wrong side is further north  wink 

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 19):
I hope Musharraf is brought to justice but understand that those who can make it happen have probably more to answer

The Parliment needs to be strengthened.No Individual should have sweeping powers.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
haggis79
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:07 am

Interesting that this thread is so much shorter than the Georgia-Russia-Missile Defense ones.... I would think these developments may prove to become a much larger danger to world peace than Russia currently is...

but maybe people just became so accustomed to see Russia as the No.1 enemy in the last 50 years that they still stuck in this kind of thinking...?
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HAWK21M
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:18 am



Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 23):



Interesting that this thread is so much shorter than the Georgia-Russia-Missile Defense ones

I feel it depends on the number of posters & from the countries they represent.
On Anet,majority are posters from America/Europe.so the knowledge of other topics may not be present or of interest to them.
Similiar at local forums,these are big topics,but most common US issues will never get hits.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
baroque
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:29 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 24):
Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 23):
Interesting that this thread is so much shorter than the Georgia-Russia-Missile Defense ones

I feel it depends on the number of posters & from the countries they represent.
On Anet,majority are posters from America/Europe.so the knowledge of other topics may not be present or of interest to them.

Depressing but you are probably right. If only - meaning if there was no Iraq and the US was properly focused on Afghanistan.

Although you could argue that given that the military efforts are tactically a success and strategically an increasing (it seems) disaster, maybe if the US was focused on Afghanistan it would be worse. (I cannot understand how so few US posters can see the analogy there to Vietnam, to me it jumps out like the proverbial **** *****.)

The real question which you or Bravo might be able to answer is will the alliances between the Islamists and other groups become more or less clear in a post Mushie era? It seems to me it could go either way.

How strong a base do the Islamists have in the army? And if they do have a strong base, how can civilians hope to clear them out, always assuming Musharraf actually tried of course?
 
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:43 pm



Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 19):
Hardly. General Musharraf was not so immensely popular in the West, and detested by many. The West mourned about Mrs Bhutto, but will not do so in regard to General Musharraf.

Well I see your point but the fact is that they thought he was their best bet to control Pakistan, that was in itself enough of a reason for the people of Pakistan to throw his out. The west will never learn. I am in a way proud of how things turned out to be, people globally don't understand the status quo was unsustainable in Pakistan.

-
> THEY thought ... THEIR best bet to control ? who is "they" ?? certainly not the West, as the West never thought to have any control. In case you equal the White House with the West, your definition of "the West" is completely wrong.
> The West has learned long ago, and Western media was rather critical about General Musharraf and Western politician lacked any enthusiasm about the Gentleman.
> People globally did not have much sympathy with him and few experts saw him as the solution for the future. Experts, after the death of Benazir Bhutto, only argued that not much else was/is in sight. The media now talks about a "power vacuum".
> Whatever, I hope that Pakistanis do NOT equal "the West" with the White House
-

Quoting Baroque (Reply 25):
How strong a base do the Islamists have in the army? And if they do have a strong base

-
Very difficult to judge, but based on the point that their geographic base is more or less the NWFP and Northern Baluchistan, I do not believe them to be very strong in the army. The future will tell.
 
Flighty
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:26 pm



Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 19):
BTW I get furious over the western obsession with Benazir, all those countries where people think she was a great leader could have had her, it would have been better for both her and Pakistan (not so much for that country  ).

She was crap. I see Musharraf as a genuine hero and patriot. He did everything he could for his country. At great personal sacrifice. He also showed a lot of wisdom, class and a gift for good timing. These are all rare qualities in a leader.

That Bhutto lady was extremely dangerous and foolish, blind to the extreme danger she was causing. No country would tolerate her extreme, sometimes violent views. She wanted her followers to march to Islamabad and apparently set fire to the government, installing her as queen. That was madness.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:24 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 25):
How strong a base do the Islamists have in the army? And if they do have a strong base, how can civilians hope to clear them out, always assuming Musharraf actually tried of course?

The pro Taliban elements in the ISI & how much support the Army gives to the Democratic process is the Key.
As for India,A stable democratic neighbour will def be to our liking.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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LTU932
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:07 pm



Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 5):
While the west will mourn, Pakistani's will celebrate.

I don't think the West will mourn the way you may be thinking. While certain aspects of his presidency have been overlooked by Western leaders, some still remember that he got to power through a military coup d'état.

Besides, I don't think Musharraf was that big of a contributor to the War on Terror because he never allowed US troops to enter the mountains of Pakistan to hunt down Bin Laden. So while his government did help in the capture of terrorists such as Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, he indirectly kept Bin Laden, Al Zawahiri and other figures of Al Qaeda and the Taliban, who were or still are hiding in Pakistan, from being captured by the Americans.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:47 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 27):
Musharraf as a genuine hero and patriot. He did everything he could for his country.

The gentleman of course HAD his qualities and most certainly WAS a patriot, but he was NOT a hero.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 27):
Bhutto lady was extremely dangerous and foolish, blind to the extreme danger she was causing

Benazir Bhutto was neither foolish nor dangerous, and did not cause any danger. The problem about her is that she came from one of those corruption-prone family clans so heavy in Pakistani politics.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 29):
he indirectly kept Bin Laden, Al Zawahiri and other figures of Al Qaeda and the Taliban, who were or still are hiding in Pakistan, from being captured by the Americans.

-
and by his indirect support to elQaeda, Taliban and some anti-Indian terrorists very simply is a man the West can very well do without.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:16 am



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 29):
he never allowed US troops to enter the mountains of Pakistan to hunt down Bin Laden.

I don't think any of Pakistans future PM would allow this.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 30):
and by his indirect support to elQaeda, Taliban and some anti-Indian terrorists very simply is a man the West can very well do without.

He played a balancing act for 9 yrs,but could not pull it off.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
baroque
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:19 am



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 30):
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 29):
he indirectly kept Bin Laden, Al Zawahiri and other figures of Al Qaeda and the Taliban, who were or still are hiding in Pakistan, from being captured by the Americans.

-
and by his indirect support to elQaeda, Taliban and some anti-Indian terrorists very simply is a man the West can very well do without.

I thought we had it on good advice that OBL was in Londonistan or Paristan??  duck 
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:29 am



Quoting Baroque (Reply 32):
I thought we had it on good advice that OBL was in Londonistan or Paristan??

Rumoured strongly to be in NWFP/POK/Karachi.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
baroque
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:32 am



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 33):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 32):
I thought we had it on good advice that OBL was in Londonistan or Paristan??

Rumoured strongly to be in NWFP/POK/Karachi.

I know, but MAF has opined he would be in Europe for logistical reasons - and I am not saying he is wrong. Being in Pakistan would worry me - if I was OBL, which contrary to some views I am not!!

Pashtun loyalty is legendary, but ole OBL, he might well be too crafty to rely on legends!

If only M Ali Jinnah had not been so headstrong.  duck 
 
Flighty
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:12 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 30):
HAD his qualities and most certainly WAS a patriot, but he was NOT a hero

My hero comment was based solely on his conduct in the last 2 or 3 years. Nobody supported him staying in power, but he did it (sacrificing his social standing, his biography) because he honestly felt it was better for his nation. He didn't gain anything, all he did was risk his life and reputation, ultimately ending up with little respect for his feats.

Bhutto hurled tremendous insults at him, which I thought was unwarranted, sort of like shooting fish in a barrel just because you like the noise. That woman sure was noisy.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:33 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 32):
and by his indirect support to elQaeda, Taliban and some anti-Indian terrorists very simply is a man the West can very well do without.

I thought we had it on good advice that OBL was in Londonistan or Paristan??

I strongly believe so in case of OBL, not however necessarily in case of parts of his "apparatus" and definitely not in case of the Taliban, who quite obviously have bases in the NWFP
-

Quoting Baroque (Reply 34):
Pashtun loyalty is legendary

-
I doubt that this loyalty extends to a rich Arab businessman whose only connection to them is generous payments
-

Quoting Flighty (Reply 35):
Bhutto hurled tremendous insults at him

-
it was elections-time ! and the hottest phase of the election-campaign
-
 
victrola
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:27 pm

Unfortunately Pakistan seems to just shift from hopelessly corrupt and inefficient civilian governments to unpopular military dictatorships. Unlike its neighbor India, it is a failed state with little hope of stability in the future.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:23 am

India hopes that Stability & Democracy stays in Pakistan & gradually things will improve.Once the Armed forces follow orders from the Elected government & Parliment is strengthened,things will be more stable.

The Elected ministers should also not be influenced & do their bit for the people.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:37 am



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 36):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 34):
Pashtun loyalty is legendary

-
I doubt that this loyalty extends to a rich Arab businessman whose only connection to them is generous payments

This is^why he married Mullah Omar´s (founder of the Taliban) daughter, to have family ties with a Pashtun leader.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
baroque
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:41 pm



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 39):
This is^why he married Mullah Omar´s (founder of the Taliban) daughter, to have family ties with a Pashtun leader.

Quite, and it is also why those marriage rules are really handy in building alliances!
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:55 pm



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 39):
This is^why he married Mullah Omar´s (founder of the Taliban) daughter, to have family ties with a Pashtun leader.

-
Helpful for sure, but in case of doubt not sufficient.
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:31 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 41):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 39):
This is why he married Mullah Omar´s (founder of the Taliban) daughter, to have family ties with a Pashtun leader.

-
Helpful for sure, but in case of doubt not sufficient.

Which is why I suggested way back in reply 34 that:
"Pashtun loyalty is legendary, but ole OBL, he might well be too crafty to rely on legends!"

If the US had spent less time on trying to kill him and more on understanding him, perhaps they might have been able to kill him - and of course 10 OBLs would then spring up in his place.

Arguably one major mistake the Allies made in WWII was to focus too much on Adolf.
 
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HAWK21M
Posts: 29929
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:56 am



Quoting Baroque (Reply 42):
Arguably one major mistake the Allies made in WWII was to focus too much on Adolf.

Why do you say mistake.Was there a consiquence?
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: President Musharraf Of Pakistan Retires..

Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:44 am



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 43):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 42):
Arguably one major mistake the Allies made in WWII was to focus too much on Adolf.

Why do you say mistake.Was there a consequence?

While he tried to micromanage everything, in practice it was beyond him to a large extent. Therefore a great deal depended on what power and control his acolytes actually managed to exercise.

Adolf was probably a sucker for disinformation campaigns, and we know that the US First Army one with Patton stuck in Kent with wooden tanks and a mass of radios worked a treat.

It reminds me a bit of a wise boss who once told me that my departments budget each year did not matter very much, what actually mattered was how much I managed to spend. Mind you that was before the days of cost centres, but it still applies to some extent.

I think that not understanding OBL has a number of consequences especially IF pressure from the US or Pakistan (or India quite possibly) has restricted OBLs activities compared with some of HIS acolytes.

Bombing attacks on the military in Pakistan are an interesting early outcome of the departure. Not sure what to make of that - YET!

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