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United_fan
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New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:49 pm

Some new,amazingly-sad pics of this great liner!

http://midshipcentury.com/
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MadameConcorde
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:56 pm



Quoting United_Fan (Thread starter):
Some new,amazingly-sad pics of this great liner!

I was a very young "France" spotter, mostly in Le Havre and Cherbourg. Even more than sad, for those of us who have admired the long, lean and elegant Le France in her best days this is heart breaking...

I saw her cousin the QE2 nearby Cannes last Sunday. Although she was placed at some distance from the shore, she looked beautiful as ever.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
luv2fly
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:05 pm

Having worked for NCL even if the boiler accident never happened her days were numbered. Upcoming stricter SOLAS standards and the fact that the current CEO hates anything old. She might have lived on a few years longer sailing under the Star Cruises banner, though that was even a long shot.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
cruiseshipcrew
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:01 am

Sad to see such a beautiful ship go that way. My first cruise was on her.
Road Warrior
 
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RayChuang
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:50 pm

The simple fact was that the SS Norway would cost too much to upgrade to current standards for safety and disabled passenger access. It turned out NCL actually saved money by ordering a new ship to replace the Norway.
 
cruiseshipcrew
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:20 pm

Even if the accident didn't happen she would be leaving the fleet right about now anyway.
Road Warrior
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:36 pm

I guess our Le France travel memorabilia will have more sentimental value to us now that she is gone. I have baggage tags and old postcards. She belongs to an era of bygone luxury of the great ocean liners. It is too bad though that no one has thought of restoring her into her original form and turning her into a floating museum like Dubai will do for the QE2.

I guess it is now time for a new generation of ships. The Queen Mary 2 qualifies as an ocean liner and took the flagship from the QE2 because of her retirement.Tomorrow the Queen Victoria will make her first visit here in Monaco. Even though she is a Cunard Queen she does not have the elegance and class as Le France and the QE2.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
TylerDurden
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:46 pm



Quoting Cruiseshipcrew (Reply 3):
Sad to see such a beautiful ship go that way.

I'll disagree. It's the normal life cycle for all mechanical things.
The QE2 will no doubt end up like the Queen Mary in time (despite the promises). I'd rather see her scrapped.

I imagine we'll see the Big U on those beaches before long. She should have been scrapped years ago.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
I guess our Le France travel memorabilia will have more sentimental value to us now that she is gone

True. I have one of those clever funnel ashtrays they used in the lounges as well as some other items from the French line--but primarily from the Normandie.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:12 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 2):
Having worked for NCL even if the boiler accident never happened her days were numbered. Upcoming stricter SOLAS standards and the fact that the current CEO hates anything old.

Is that why NCL never refit and recommissioned the SS United states?

Quoting Tylerdurden (Reply 7):
I imagine we'll see the Big U on those beaches before long. She should have been scrapped years ago.

I'm not so sure, she has been designated a national historic landmark, so at least for now, she cannot be scrapped.
 
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UltimateDelta
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:16 pm

Those are kind of sad pictures, and I find them that way because my grandparents, mother, aunt, and uncle all sailed on it.
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57AZ
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:21 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):

I'm not so sure, she has been designated a national historic landmark, so at least for now, she cannot be scrapped.

Don't count on that. National Historic Landmark and National Register of Historic Places designations have no teeth when it comes to enforcing protection of a property against its owners. The owner might at worst get a small fine-nothing more. To be totally objective and honest, I'm much more concerned about the fate of the Delta Queen than the United States. The United States is a rusting hulk that has been out of service for years. Right now, a certain pompous Representative (Oberstar) is trying to force the Queen off the waterways by misapplying the Safety at Sea act. While the Queen does have a wooden superstructure, the successive owners of the boat have all taken great steps to insure that a fire never will happen on the boat. All of the wood has been sheathed in metal, modern fire extinguishing systems have been installed and other measures taken for passenger safety.

[Edited 2008-08-31 10:22:17]
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
TylerDurden
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:33 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
I'm not so sure, she has been designated a national historic landmark, so at least for now, she cannot be scrapped

Nope. It can be petitioned to be removed which is basically a technicality. Cost to restore is the primarily reason for most landmarks to be removed (unless obviously in gov't possession)
Further, NCL has not renewed its' application to keep it on the Register since they are at a point where they need to commit to the original application.

Clearly, they felt that the US gov't would be kicking in a nice chunk of change.

When the restoration broke $,5B....it all took a turn south. You can get a nice new ship or two for that....

She's toast.
 
luv2fly
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:05 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
Is that why NCL never refit and recommissioned the SS United states?



NCL wanted the SS United States for its Hawaiian cruises, that was before they got around the Jones act, so now they really do not need her nor are they likely to ever sail her, IMHO.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
cruiseshipcrew
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:30 am

While I wouldn't hold my breath for them to happen Apollo has some interesting ideas for the SS US. You never know but they are showing a lot of interest in her.
Road Warrior
 
bananaboy
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:23 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):


Is that why NCL never refit and recommissioned the SS United states?

$$$'s Cheaper to build a new ship than try and re-model and old one.


Mark
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
ltbewr
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:50 pm

Yes, it is sad to see a great ship (like a great and somewhat historic aircraft) being scrapped, but the reality is that not all ships can be or should be saved due to real economic and practical reasons.

As I have commented before, what bothers me more about such scrapping is that it is done in places like Alang with horrible human rights, labor rights, health and environmental problems. These people get maybe = $ 5/day, work 7 days/12 hours days and live in shacks. The workers and all others in the area are exposed to hazardous materials like lead from the old paint, fumes from the torch chemicals, asbestos, oil/fuel and so on. The workers have minimal safety equipment, with many dying or suffering crippling injuries in their work. You have horrible water and land pollution in the regions as well as ruining fishing there.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:43 pm



Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 11):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
I'm not so sure, she has been designated a national historic landmark, so at least for now, she cannot be scrapped

Nope. It can be petitioned to be removed which is basically a technicality. Cost to restore is the primarily reason for most landmarks to be removed (unless obviously in gov't possession)
Further, NCL has not renewed its' application to keep it on the Register since they are at a point where they need to commit to the original application.

Clearly, they felt that the US gov't would be kicking in a nice chunk of change.

Doesn't the USN still own a portion of The SS United States? When she was originally built, back in the early 1950s, she used the USN designed lower Iowa class BB hull form, and uses the same machinery, boilers, and steam turbines from the Iowa BBs. This explaines why she was so fast, and still holds at least one Atlantic Ocean crossing record. The USN threw in some of the money to build her so she could have been used as a troop ship throughout the 1950s and 1960s.
 
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moo
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:57 pm



Quoting Ltbewr (Reply 15):
As I have commented before, what bothers me more about such scrapping is that it is done in places like Alang with horrible human rights, labor rights, health and environmental problems. These people get maybe = $ 5/day, work 7 days/12 hours days and live in shacks

Thats OK, because the environmentalists don't like you doing it in the UK either...

Yes, Green Peace, Friends of the Earth and Hartlepool Council, I'm looking at you.
 
TylerDurden
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:42 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
Doesn't the USN still own a portion of The SS United States?

No.

She passed into private hands in August of 1978 following an auction by the US Maritime Administration---a succession of owners followed....

Prior to NCL, she was owned by Edward Cantor (well, his estate), a New Jersey commerical real estate developer.

No part of her is publicly owned.
 
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United_fan
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:42 am

I wonder if The Big U would make the tow to Alang?
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kc135topboom
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:24 pm



Quoting United_Fan (Reply 19):
I wonder if The Big U would make the tow to Alang?

Since she was gutted several years ago, and had all the haz-mat and asbestos removed, if she is scrapped, that could be done in the US.
 
TylerDurden
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:01 pm



Quoting United_Fan (Reply 19):
I wonder if The Big U would make the tow to Alang?

She made it to Turkey and back for asbestos removal years ago. There is debate, however, on her current seaworthy condition.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 20):
Since she was gutted several years ago, and had all the haz-mat and asbestos removed, if she is scrapped, that could be done in the US.

Still likely cheaper to tow her to India and dismantle. Plus no environmental issues with PCB's etc that may have stayed with her. So, I'm betting it's Bangladesh, Pakistan, or India for the Big U.

If she has to go....why not an artificial reef somewhere in US waters?
 
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United_fan
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:27 pm

Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 21):
There is debate, however, on her current seaworthy condition.

She was towed from Turkey in '96 , i think. 13 years of sitting in PHL can't be good.Plus,she's probably real top-heavy with no in fuel her.

Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 21):
If she has to go....why not an artificial reef somewhere in US waters?

That would be an awesome video!

I seriously doubt NCL will restore her. Which in a way is too bad. There was an article I saw somewhere where they showed the hull close-up and had many interior pics.  
That ship is in a real sad state , IMHO.It's just a matter of time til she's on the tow to be scrapped.

[Edited 2008-09-02 14:31:38]
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United_fan
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:21 pm

New pic just posted!!!!!!
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jetstar
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:05 pm



Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 21):
If she has to go....why not an artificial reef somewhere in US waters?

While the SS United States hull is steel, I think the superstructure is aluminum and with the price of scrap steel and aluminum at all time high prices, that would be a very expensive reef.

I think the scrappers in Alang paid 12 million dollars for the Norway delivered.

I for one do not think the Big U can ever be made into a cruise ship, hull designs have come a long way in 50 years as have cruise ships, now almost all new ships are built with balcony’s and atrium’s. I don’t think upper deck outside cabin passengers would stand for looking out of a 12” porthole instead of a picture window or stepping outside on a balcony.

Remember the United States was built for speed using a lot of horsepower when fuel was cheap and for the rough North Atlantic waters, today’s hull designs are a lot more fuel efficient.
 
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United_fan
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:42 pm

That , and the Big U is an ocean-liner,not a cruise ship.
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TylerDurden
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:28 am



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 24):
While the SS United States hull is steel, I think the superstructure is aluminum and with the price of scrap steel and aluminum at all time high prices, that would be a very expensive reef.

Yes, you are correct. It saved over 45K tonnes in her deadweight---helping her acheive her astonishing speed.
It would make a lot of Coke cans!

Nevertheless, a burial at sea would seem appropriate. The poor thing has suffered enough indignity.

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 24):
I for one do not think the Big U can ever be made into a cruise ship, hull designs have come a long way in 50 years as have cruise ships, now almost all new ships are built with balcony’s and atrium’s

And foremost, all cabins have bathrooms. That is not the case with the Big U....they still had some shared facilites in the lower classes.....the re-plumbing alone would have cost many millions. Although I imagine the France had the same problem (?)
 
jetstar
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:31 pm



Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 26):
And foremost, all cabins have bathrooms. That is not the case with the Big U....they still had some shared facilites in the lower classes.....the re-plumbing alone would have cost many millions. Although I imagine the France had the same problem (?)

I would assume that if the Big U was ever converted to a cruise ship, she would be taken down to bare metal internally and everything built from scratch. I highly doubt they could go with 50 year old plumbing and wiring, today’s toilet systems are vacuum, not flushed with water anymore.

But doing all this work internally would add a lot more to the costs of rebuilding the ship. On all new build cruise ships almost all the cabins are pre-built on shore in a climate controlled factory and placed together and then lifted in place as one piece, with the cabins completely furnished and wired ready to go, all that is needed is to hook up the utilities

Because cruise ships are nothing more than big boxes, almost all the prefab cabins are the same. On the Big U, because of her shape I doubt they could build as many the same size, some would have to be built as just a few to fit in their respective parts and each one fitted in.
 
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United_fan
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RE: New Pics Of SS France In Alang

Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:58 pm

I'm not sure how much is even left anymore? I have seen pics,and it looks real gutted to me. The abspestos was removed when it was towed to Turkey in the 90's.
I found the article I was looking for,I am no expert,but the ship looks real rough. I also read that it would cost upwards of $500 mill to restore her. I seriously doubt this will ever happen. Especially with the new SOLAS requirements coming soon. Sad,but true. I forsee the Big U under-tow to Alang in the next 2 years.......

Here is the link:

http://www.planphilly.com/node/1559
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