radarbeam
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Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:47 pm

One of the persistent memes in the Republican line of attack against Barack Obama is the notion that he is an elitist, whereas the G.O.P. represent real working Americans. But when Vanity Fair priced out Cindy McCain's Monday Night Convention outfit, the total price was staggering to say the least.... between $299,100 and $313,100.

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/pol...9/cindy-mccains-300000-outfit.html

Nice going Cindy  Wink
 
mdsh00
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:57 pm



Quoting Radarbeam (Thread starter):
Nice going Cindy Wink

Eh...That's always a line from the GOP; they used it back in 2004 too. Regardless, It's probably not that important.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
luckyone
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:59 pm

Makes sense considering the earings, which are more than likely loaned with security from the designer parked backstage.
 
PacNWjet
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:02 pm

Republicans point out that liberals espouse elitist values that are not in sync with traditional American values of country, family, and individual responsibility. Republicans do not apologize for wealth because they believe that if people are free to exercise their individual freedoms unfettered from unnecessary government intrusion they too can acquire wealth. Cindy McCain is not elitist for wearing an expensive outfit anymore than a hard-working American is elitist for saving up money to buy an expensive motorhome or RV. What is elitist about liberals' values is their condescension towards Americans with traditional values who do not begrudge Cindy McCain (or anyone else for that matter) for having enough money to live as she pleases.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:10 pm



Quoting Radarbeam (Thread starter):
when Vanity Fair priced out Cindy McCain's Monday Night Convention outfit, the total price was staggering to say the least.... between $299,100 and $313,100.

This is not much when you think that Carla Bruni and the ladies in the French government are wearing clothing comingalmost exclusively from Couture houses, Dior, Saint Laurent, Lagerfeld et al. that cost in the thousands of Euros each.

In comparison Cindy McCain goes cheap and I bet it's on her own money not the political party's money. If she owns a private jet, she could spend a lot more than $300 on a suit. It does not shock me.

$300 is the kind of money any executive secretary in a major company in Paris will spend on a suit that she will wear in the office on her day job and she will need a different one each day of the week.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
zak
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:12 pm

mrs concorde, its about grands.
10=2
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:13 pm

Oh... I misread it... It's $300K not $300.

That's a totally different story! If she can afford to pay that much for one suit wiith her own money then she equals Carla Bruni.

At such a high price mark it probably comes from one of the most famous couture houses!
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
ThePRGuy
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:14 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 4):
she could spend a lot more than $300 on a suit. It does not shock me.

It said $300k...
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
N1120A
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:16 pm



Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 3):
What is elitist about liberals' values is their condescension towards Americans with traditional values

What is a traditional value? Discrimination is not a "traditional value". Interfering in other people's daily lives is not a "traditional value". Spending bucket loads of money on useless foreign policy is not a "traditional value".

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 3):
Republicans point out that liberals espouse elitist values that are not in sync with traditional American values of country, family, and individual responsibility.

You apparently have absolutely no idea what the term "elitist" means then.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 4):

$300 is the kind of money any executive secretary in a major company in Paris will spend on a suit that she will wear in the office on her day job and she will need a different one each day of the week.

Not $300 (Three Hundred), $300,000 (Three Hundred Thousand)
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
sv7887
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:19 pm



Quoting Radarbeam (Thread starter):
But when Vanity Fair priced out Cindy McCain's Monday Night Convention outfit, the total price was staggering to say the least.... between $299,100 and $313,100.

Seems diamonds were the bulk of that at $280,000

Guess her charity work means nothing right? Or the 25K she donated to Hurricane Gustav victims? Or the Bangladeshi kids she adopted and saved the lives of?
 
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falstaff
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:21 pm



Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 3):
Republicans do not apologize for wealth because they believe that if people are free to exercise their individual freedoms unfettered from unnecessary government intrusion they too can acquire wealth. Cindy McCain is not elitist for wearing an expensive outfit anymore than a hard-working American is elitist for saving up money to buy an expensive motorhome or RV. What is elitist about liberals' values is their condescension towards Americans with traditional values who do not begrudge Cindy McCain (or anyone else for that matter) for having enough money to live as she pleases.

That is exactly right. Being elitist is when you think you know what is best for everyone. Owning expensive things you bought with your money doesn't make anyone elitist. Telling somebody they can't have something they can afford just because you don't like it is elitist.

I always say "You are not a snob if you really are better than other people".
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
Speedbird741
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:25 pm

Elitist - An elitist genetic algorithm is one that always retains in the population the best individual found so far. Tournament selection is naturally elitist.


Elitist - is the belief or attitude that those individuals who are considered members of the elite -- a select group of people with outstanding personal abilities, intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes -- are those whose views on a matter are to be taken ...


Elitist - Someone who believes in rule by an elite group; Of or relating to elitism



Does any one see anything regarding the use of a nice dress, that was bought with the persons own money, result of her own work ?
Boa noite Faro, Air Portugal 257 climbing flight level 340
 
sv7887
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:25 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Spending bucket loads of money on useless foreign policy is not a "traditional value".

And spending money on useless domestic entitlement programs is any better?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Interfering in other people's daily lives is not a "traditional value"

Oh wow so banning foods I might want to eat isn't interference? Raising my taxes through the roof isn't interference? Or stopping me from buying a diesel vehicle in CA, MA, and a few others?

Give me a break. The world isn't black and white like that. There is Good and Bad with BOTH of these political parties...
 
Pyrex
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:35 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):
Oh wow so banning foods I might want to eat isn't interference?

Yeah, that is exactly what public health is, interference. Such as banning drugs I guess, then?
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
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falstaff
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:36 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 4):
$300 is the kind of money any executive secretary in a major company in Paris will spend on a suit that she will wear in the office on her day job and she will need a different one each day of the week.

A good men's suit will cost a lot more than that. A halfway decent suit runs about $300-$400. Sometimes you can get last year's model for a great discount.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
mdsh00
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:44 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):
Oh wow so banning foods I might want to eat isn't interference?

When taxpayers have to foot the bill of people who engorged themselves on fatty foods and then need life saving operations and procedures, or payment of their diabetes medication, there is an element of a government role in preventative health. Are you then also against things like flouridated water, certain vaccinations, and so forth?
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
N1120A
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:49 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):

Oh wow so banning foods I might want to eat isn't interference?

I don't see anyone banning foods you want to eat. If you are talking about bans in place with restaurants, you can look dead on at a Republican mayor for taking the lead on that one.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):
Raising my taxes through the roof isn't interference?

"Your" taxes? Are you part of John McCain's "middle class" making $4 million a year? Barack Obama is proposing a massive middle class tax cut. Oh, by the way, the government has every right to tax people anyway they see fit. You sure sound "entitled" there.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):
Or stopping me from buying a diesel vehicle in CA, MA, and a few others?

First, this is a federal election. If you want to get into a State's Rights argument about this one, you will be flying WAY off the "conservative" line. Second, you already can buy diesels in those states, so you are misrepresenting what the laws are. Third, if you want car makers to put out more compliant diesels, convince them that the economic realities fit for them.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):

And spending money on useless domestic entitlement programs is any better?

"Useless" programs huh? So, rectifying the fact that 50 million are uninsured is "useless"? Spending less on health care overall is "useless"? Insuring that the elderly don't have to choose between pills and a hot meal is "useless"? Insuring that US industry is on an equal playing field is "useless"?

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):
There is Good and Bad with BOTH of these political parties...

Unfortunately, most of the bad with one is caused by that of the other.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $30

Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:53 pm

talking about Cindy-she does not find Palin's speech so great and refuses to be called an adept of her utterly rightwing excesses tied to some abortion refusal practice and denial of sex-education..
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
sv7887
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:56 pm



Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 15):
Are you then also against things like flouridated water, certain vaccinations, and so forth?

Of course not..But there is a big difference. We allow people to drink, smoke cigarettes and whatever else is fashionable these days and the effects are equally if not more damaging.

Where do you stop?
Banning trans-fats does what exactly? It doesn't stop the source of the problem: Poor eating habits. It's like people who overdose on "Low Fat" products thinking it gives them free license to do whatever they want.

Here is an interesting article on from the Financial Times on the subject:
http://us.ft.com/ftgateway/superpage.ft?news_id=fto080820081602514638
 
HALFA
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:02 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 10):
That is exactly right. Being elitist is when you think you know what is best for everyone.

Like the Republican platform of banning abortion? I am personally against abortion but who am I to tell another women what to do with her body?!

Like the Republican platform of supporting sodomy laws that are applied to gay men? If two men are in love (or not) and want to get it on in the privacy of their own home, who cares? I sure don't.

Republicans seem to be real good at talking about less government but are the masters of placing MORE restrictions on people based on their own moral code. It seems like it is the Republicans that think they know what is best for everyone.

You might want to re-evaluate your thought process.

HALFA
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
 
Illini_152
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:15 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
Oh, by the way, the government has every right to tax people anyway they see fit. You sure sound "entitled" there.

Thats funny. I seem to remember a little war fought 230 years ago to change that. When will the left understand; it's MY MONEY, not the government's. The government does not have an intrinsic right to the citizen's property. That's what makes us different from subjects. Though these days, with our ruling elite spending 30+ years in office, I'm beginning to see less and less difference.
Happy contrails - I support B747Skipper and Jetguy
 
sv7887
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $30

Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:29 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
First, this is a federal election. If you want to get into a State's Rights argument about this one, you will be flying WAY off the "conservative" line. Second, you already can buy diesels in those states, so you are misrepresenting what the laws are. Third, if you want car makers to put out more compliant diesels, convince them that the economic realities fit for them.

Try getting a brand new Diesel car in MA for the past few years. Only the new Mercedes Bluetecs have limited availability in CA right now.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
"Useless" programs huh? So, rectifying the fact that 50 million are uninsured is "useless"? Spending less on health care overall is "useless"? Insuring that the elderly don't have to choose between pills and a hot meal is "useless"? Insuring that US industry is on an equal playing field is "useless"?

45.7 Million (2008)

check your facts before you start spouting the Michael Moore BS:

AND

"But according to the same Census report, there are 8.3 million uninsured people who make between $50,000 and $74,999 per year and 8.74 million who make more than $75,000 a year. That’s roughly 17 million people who ought to be able to “afford” health insurance because they make substantially more than the median household income of $46,326."

AND

"However, the Census Bureau report “Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2005,” puts the initial number of uninsured people living in the country at 46.577 million.(2005)


A closer look at that report reveals the Census data include 9.487 million people who are “not a citizen.” Subtracting the 10 million non-Americans, the number of uninsured Americans falls to roughly 37 million."



http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...us/2008-08-26-census-poverty_N.htm
http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2007/20070718153509.aspx
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/hlthins/hlthin04.html

So we're down to 27 million....

And for those kind folks here's the Massachusetts Solution:
http://www.kff.org/uninsured/7494.cfm

That was a product of private enterprise and public assistance for those who truly cannot afford it, by a Republican Governor and a Democratic Legislature

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
Insuring that US industry is on an equal playing field is "useless"?

Ummm it's called Capitalism not Socialism...

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
don't see anyone banning foods you want to eat. If you are talking about bans in place with restaurants, you can look dead on at a Republican mayor for taking the lead on that one.



Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
"Your" taxes? Are you part of John McCain's "middle class" making $4 million a year? Barack Obama is proposing a massive middle class tax cut. Oh, by the way, the government has every right to tax people anyway they see fit. You sure sound "entitled" there.

You mean McCain's joke of $5 million?

You clearly don't study economics do you? Barack Obama is going to raise capital gains and Dividends taxes on the 50% of Americans who invest in the market. Add the Payroll Tax increase too.

As for Massive...
""Four months ago I said it was time to put a middle-class tax cut worth $1000 per family into the pockets of workers who deserve it," Obama said."

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/po...bama_calls_for_250_tax_cut_fo.html

MASSIVE? With Gas at near $4 a gallon! My ass.

I am sure those evil big business he talks about won't pass on the cost of the tax to the consumers, right??? But wait doesn't Big Oil set the price of Gasoline? Oh wait, maybe they'll be so generous and not pass along the taxes to the people?

Which is it?

http://www.majon.com/articles/Financ...sk_stock_market_investing_787.html

No, the government works for the people and they don't have the right to "DO" anything.

Entitled my ass, I'd like to keep the money I work hard for.

[Edited 2008-09-04 14:37:11]

[Edited 2008-09-04 14:40:00]
 
N1120A
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:54 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 21):
Try getting a brand new Diesel car in MA for the past few years. Only the new Mercedes Bluetecs have limited availability in CA right now.

You said vehicle. You can buy diesel vehicles in MA. As for the rest of them, that is a pure case of the capitalism you claim to know all about.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 21):
"But according to the same Census report, there are 8.3 million uninsured people who make between $50,000 and $74,999 per year and 8.74 million who make more than $75,000 a year. That’s roughly 17 million people who ought to be able to “afford” health insurance because they make substantially more than the median household income of $46,326."

One, what percentage of their income would it cost those people. Two, just how many of those people you claim can afford health care have kids? How many people do they support on that amount of money?

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 21):

A closer look at that report reveals the Census data include 9.487 million people who are “not a citizen.” Subtracting the 10 million non-Americans, the number of uninsured Americans falls to roughly 37 million."

Wait now. Since when are non-citizens not paying into the system. I am not even talking about your inevitable baseless illegal immigrant argument. I am talking about legal residents who pay into the same systems as everyone else.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 21):

Ummm it's called Capitalism not Socialism...

And that statement is completely irrelevant. In the United States, manufacturers from four countries compete for the vast majority of the market. Japan, Germany and South Korea all have well developed systems of universal health care and national pensions, taking the burden off their large corporations.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 21):

You clearly don't study economics do you?

You clearly have no idea, do you?

Quoting Illini_152 (Reply 20):
When will the left understand; it's MY MONEY, not the government's.

It's also your government, which means you have to fund it.

Quoting Illini_152 (Reply 20):
The government does not have an intrinsic right to the citizen's property

Well, actually, the government can take anyone's property they want if they compensate them for it. Of course, the government gets to set that rate.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 21):
MASSIVE? With Gas at near $4 a gallon! My ass.

Wow, talk about a misquote. The $1000 is to be sent out in the form of a rebate, while the tax cuts would go much further. Then again, with a much more sensible monetary policy, oil should drop significantly with a stronger dollar.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:08 pm



Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 3):
Republicans point out that liberals espouse elitist values that are not in sync with traditional American values of country, family, and individual responsibility.

Funny. If it wasn't for the liberals, conservatives wouldn't have any traditional values to fall back upon. Heck, we'd probably still be paying tea tax to descendants of King George.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
Cadet57
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:29 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 13):
A halfway decent suit runs about $300-$400. Sometimes you can get last year's model for a great discount.

Its not expensive and I dont care its not a famous lable, but two of my suits are haggar and for daily wear they are great suits. That and Im cheap and Would never actaully pay 300 for a suit  tongue 

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 21):
And for those kind folks here's the Massachusetts Solution:
http://www.kff.org/uninsured/7494.cfm

That was a product of private enterprise and public assistance for those who truly cannot afford it, by a Republican Governor and a Democratic Legislature

Dear god, what a mess that is...

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 21):
MASSIVE? With Gas at near $4 a gallon! My ass.

And dropping daily....

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
You can buy diesel vehicles in MA.

Partilaly right. Until, iirc 2003 you could buy NEW diesel cars and trucks. After then you could only buy diesel trucks and suv's (excursion, the rare Suburban, etc) and USED diesel cars. It is not until this fall when VW rolls out its new TDi engine that you once again can buy new diesel cars in the state.

Kinda off topic, but interesting note on the Mercedes CDi, they are illegal in MA and several surrounding states:

Quote:
Mercedes states that their diesel cars are NOT legal for sale in California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, or Vermont. A limited number will be available for lease in California

http://www.practicalenvironmentalist.com/tag/diesel-cars
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:32 pm



Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 24):
After then you could only buy diesel trucks and suv's (excursion, the rare Suburban, etc) and USED diesel cars.

Again, he said vehicles, which was misrepresenting what one actually could do.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 24):
That and Im cheap and Would never actaully pay 300 for a suit

$300 is cheap for a suit, especially after alterations are made.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:36 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 25):
Again, he said vehicles, which was misrepresenting what one actually could do.

Agreed, but of course just pointing out that there were inaccuracies on both sides. More so on his part, as you were right.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 25):
$300 is cheap for a suit, especially after alterations are made.

No, 150 is a good deal. $300 is about 2/3's of what I make a week, no way in hell id pay that for a piece of clothing. Hell, even if I paid 300+ for a suit, I could get the whole thing altered for 15 bucks by a local seamstress who does good work and i've yet to have a problem.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:43 pm



Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 26):

Agreed, but of course just pointing out that there were inaccuracies on both sides.

I wasn't inaccurate in my response. I didn't say you could get a diesel car.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:44 pm



Quoting Radarbeam (Thread starter):
But when Vanity Fair priced out Cindy McCain's Monday Night Convention outfit, the total price was staggering to say the least.... between $299,100 and $313,100.

So? Why is this newsworthy? The Dems have the same kind of outfits priced the same. Big deal. She bought the suit, not the GOP. Or it might have been a rental.... But then again, who cares!
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:52 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
You said vehicle. You can buy diesel vehicles in MA. As for the rest of them, that is a pure case of the capitalism you claim to know all about.

Posturing once again...Oh please, wrong again:

http://blogs.edmunds.com/strategies/...-day-where-are-diesels-banned.html


The second VW was allowed to sell their 2009 Jetta they sold out:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/07...t-of-jetta-tdi-tiguan-tdi-possibl/

What was that about the free market again??

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
One, what percentage of their income would it cost those people. Two, just how many of those people you claim can afford health care have kids? How many people do they support on that amount of money?

It's not a "claim" but what the federal government says. They establish a poverty level and these people are far above it. I take you know more about poverty than government economists with Ph.D's?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
And that statement is completely irrelevant. In the United States, manufacturers from four countries compete for the vast majority of the market. Japan, Germany and South Korea all have well developed systems of universal health care and national pensions, taking the burden off their large corporations.

Really? Does that stop Boeing from selling class leading airplanes, Microsoft from selling software? Exxon Mobil? Kraft? IBM?

Funny how Honda and Toyota have US factories and pay for their workers insurance and don't complain.....

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 21):

You clearly don't study economics do you?

You clearly have no idea, do you?

I have two degrees in Economics, a Masters from The London School of Economics..Gee I wonder who is right, the wannabe lawyer or the guy who's studied Economics for 5 yrs, with a MSc from one of the top Economics schools in the world?

What are your qualifications? Michael Moore? Ph.D in Economics from Harvard or Princeton? Last I checked you have a law degree...

Talking to you is like a Brick wall. Go google Prime Minister's Singh economic reforms in India and learn why they are so successful. Hmm, even China embraced capitalism and see how well it works for them.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 21):
MASSIVE? With Gas at near $4 a gallon! My ass.

Wow, talk about a misquote. The $1000 is to be sent out in the form of a rebate, while the tax cuts would go much further. Then again, with a much more sensible monetary policy, oil should drop significantly with a stronger dollar.

Really? That isnt what the AP says:

http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/p...LL&HBX_OU=50&HBX_PK=obama_tax_plan

Obama has offered a series of tax breaks, including eliminating the income tax for senior citizens who make less than $50,000 a year and giving a $1,000 income tax credit for families with income of between $8,000 and $75,000; individuals would receive half that amount.

$1,000 appears to stand...Got any facts?

And how is stronger monetary policy going to work when Mr. Obama spends more than he takes in?

From same article:

The Tax Policy Center, a nonpartisan joint project of the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, gives a preliminary estimate that over the next decade, McCain's tax proposals would reduce federal revenues $3.7 trillion while Obama's cuts would amount to $2.7 trillion.

The center said the cuts would slice roughly 10 percent and 7 percent, respectively, of the federal revenues scheduled for collection under current law. But the center's estimate -- seemingly the first nonpartisan comprehensive comparison of the plans -- is incomplete because it doesn't account for health care tax proposals or, at least in McCain's case, consider how proposals to slash spending would offset some costs.


So less revenue, Higher taxes, lower growth, and Mr Obama has pledged he'll spend more...Which equals deficits..Not sure how you stop the issue of debt to China with that..

Not to mention all those tax hikes on business means higher prices. If the Big Companies are soo greedy don't you think they'll just pass on the tax to people? More inflation, less disposible income...

Raising Taxes in a downturn is a bad idea...
http://www.oregoncatalyst.com/index....,-TAXES,-ECONOMICS-AND-OREGON.html
in October 2002 by Stephen Moore clearly demonstrates the relationship between raising taxes and slower state economies. Moore studied how states dealt with the recession of the early 90’s and the result of those actions for the period of 1990-1993. Some states raised taxes while others cut taxes or held the line. What Moore found is a history lesson Oregonians should learn from:

* The tax-avoiding states created 653,000 new jobs versus only 3,000 in the tax-increasing states – even though the tax-increasing states had much larger populations.
* The unemployment rate rose by 2.2 percentage points in the tax-increasing states versus 0.6 percent in the tax-avoiding states.
* Income for an average family of four dropped by an average of almost $500 in the tax-increasing states, but rose by $300 in the tax-avoiding states.
 
comorin
Posts: 3857
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:52 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 28):
Or it might have been a rental.

Like in Oscar de la Rental?
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:56 pm



Quoting Comorin (Reply 30):

You never know.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:03 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 29):
Posturing once again...Oh please, wrong again:

Actually, you're wrong.

You can buy diesel vehicles here. I explained it above. Go read and educate yourself. So because my local VW dealership is searching for a used TDi wagon for me and we own a DIESEL F-250 we must be breaking the law...
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:18 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 29):


$1,000 appears to stand...Got any facts?

Did you hear his speech?

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 29):

Posturing once again...Oh please, wrong again:

Again, you are the one who is wrong. You used the term "vehicle" which covers trucks, motorcycles, cars, etc.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 29):

What was that about the free market again??

Hey, the Euros have plenty of cars that meet California specifications. It is a matter of them establishing that there is a market worth their investment.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 29):

It's not a "claim" but what the federal government says. They establish a poverty level and these people are far above it.

Bureaucrats that are appointed by self-interested politicians don't hold much weight with me. Further, you really think the Orshansky system, developed more than 40 years ago, combined with the CPI show the whole picture, especially when it comes to an expenditure like health insurance?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:51 pm



Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 32):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 29):
Posturing once again...Oh please, wrong again:

Actually, you're wrong.

You can buy diesel vehicles here. I explained it above. Go read and educate yourself. So because my local VW dealership is searching for a used TDi wagon for me and we own a DIESEL F-250 we must be breaking the law...

Sounds like you also need an education:

"Because I live in New Hampshire, the 2006 Jeep Liberty Limited 4x4 diesel is available. For residents of Massachusetts, new diesels are off-limits. In times of high gasoline prices and too many inefficient vehicles, Massachusetts stands with California, Maine, New York and Vermont in prohibiting the sale of new diesel vehicles -- even though they have become more environmentally friendly and the technology continues to improve.

Want a smoky, loud, down-and-dirty-diesel from the 1970s or '80s? No problem. Only diesel models 2004 and newer that weigh less than 8,500 pounds and have fewer than 7,500 miles on the odometer are banned in Massachusetts. "


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...?f=/c/a/2006/06/23/MTGJGJIBH81.DTL

Keyword being USED and apparently this weight restriction.. So your truck and used Jetta is legal but new Diesels are banned...So explain to me the wisdom of banning a NEW diesel car again?

What was that about the Free Market again? Seems like it's working to me:
http://gas2.org/2008/05/21/clean-die...o-us-this-fall-2008-2010-timeline/

As for the price of oil, OPEC has already indicated its intention to defend oil at $100 a barrel. Add any problems in the Middle East or any other supply related issues and it will be back up in no time.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 21):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
First, this is a federal election. If you want to get into a State's Rights argument about this one, you will be flying WAY off the "conservative" line. Second, you already can buy diesels in those states, so you are misrepresenting what the laws are. Third, if you want car makers to put out more compliant diesels, convince them that the economic realities fit for them.

Try getting a brand new Diesel car in MA for the past few years. Only the new Mercedes Bluetecs have limited availability in CA right now.



Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 29):


$1,000 appears to stand...Got any facts?

Did you hear his speech?

So those replace facts from independent sources?

This is from June of this year, did Mr. Obama change his mind again?
http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/p...LL&HBX_OU=50&HBX_PK=obama_tax_plan

Obama has offered a series of tax breaks, including eliminating the income tax for senior citizens who make less than $50,000 a year and giving a $1,000 income tax credit for families with income of between $8,000 and $75,000; individuals would receive half that amount.

So Mr. Obama changed his mind again? Did you read the article?
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:01 am



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 34):
Sounds like you also need an education:

"Because I live in New Hampshire, the 2006 Jeep Liberty Limited 4x4 diesel is available. For residents of Massachusetts, new diesels are off-limits. In times of high gasoline prices and too many inefficient vehicles, Massachusetts stands with California, Maine, New York and Vermont in prohibiting the sale of new diesel vehicles -- even though they have become more environmentally friendly and the technology continues to improve.

Want a smoky, loud, down-and-dirty-diesel from the 1970s or '80s? No problem. Only diesel models 2004 and newer that weigh less than 8,500 pounds and have fewer than 7,500 miles on the odometer are banned in Massachusetts. "

 sarcastic  Good lord. Did you even READ what I wrote? I SAID THE EXACT SAME THING. NEW CARS ARE BANNED. YOU CAN STILL BUY TRUCKS.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 34):
So your truck and used Jetta is legal but new Diesels are banned..

So thats why there is a 2008 Jetta TDi demo model at the same VW dealership? Dear god man. When two different people, one being a resident of the state you think know so much about tells you you're wrong, maybe you should take a step back...
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:05 am



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 34):

Sounds like you also need an education:

Again, you are missing the point. You said "vehicle", which was untrue.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
flanker
Posts: 1407
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:42 am

RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:07 am



Quoting Radarbeam (Thread starter):
One of the persistent memes in the Republican line of attack against Barack Obama is the notion that he is an elitist, whereas the G.O.P. represent real working Americans. But when Vanity Fair priced out Cindy McCain's Monday Night Convention outfit, the total price was staggering to say the least.... between $299,100 and $313,100.

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/pol...9/cindy-mccains-300000-outfit.html

Nice going Cindy Wink

Its her own money, she can do with it as she sees fit.
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7867
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:19 am

Anyone who thinks so highly of themselves and who thinks they have a right to take anyone else's rights away, for whatever reason, is an elitist.

[Edited 2008-09-04 17:19:59]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
TSS
Posts: 2480
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:52 pm

RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:26 am



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 9):
Seems diamonds were the bulk of that at $280,000

IF, and only if, they're real and of premium quality.

Quoting Luckyone (Reply 2):
Makes sense considering the earings, which are more than likely loaned with security from the designer parked backstage.

Exactly as Hollywood stars do on Oscar night. Harry Winston makes big $$$ loaning jewelry out.

From the article: "(All prices except Laura’s shoes and Cindy’s watch are estimates, and the jewelry prices are based on the assumption that the pieces are real.)".
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:32 am

Leave it up to Vanity Fair, a magazine that is still stuck in the closet, to do a story about the cost of Cindy McCain's outfit. Seriously, if you're a straight male and read Vanity Fair, there is something you're not disclosing to your wife or your parents.

That said, who cares? Cindy McCain isn't running for President. She is wealthy, who cares... besides a poor, envious liberal.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
FlyingTexan
Posts: 2998
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:30 am

RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:46 am

On abortion and uninsured...

Republicans care about the baby until its born. After that, no more. Uninsured. Tough shit. Don't be poor, how could one be so stupid?

Is Sarah Palin's grand kid going to be uninsured? Are the parents in high school or do they have jobs with medical benefits? Will Bristol and her boyfriend/fiance have to suck off the government teat?
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
WunalaYann
Posts: 2128
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:55 am

RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:49 am



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 4):
This is not much when you think that Carla Bruni and the ladies in the French government are wearing clothing comingalmost exclusively from Couture houses, Dior, Saint Laurent, Lagerfeld et al. that cost in the thousands of Euros each.

But at least we claim to be elitist...  biggrin 

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 3):
Cindy McCain is not elitist for wearing an expensive outfit anymore than a hard-working American is elitist for saving up money to buy an expensive motorhome or RV.

Your phrasing itself is telling - you implicitly oppose Cindy McCain (whose husband I actually kind of like) and "hard-working Americans"...  Wink

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 9):
Guess her charity work means nothing right?

Of course it means something. Quite a lot, in my opinion. But you are too smart not to know that politics is all perception (and corruption thereof). When a lot of people are struggling to repay their house, wearing $300k to talk to them about how you understand their plight may not convey the most sincere message...  Smile

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 12):
And spending money on useless domestic entitlement programs is any better?

Yes because at least other nations (such as mine) don't have to come in and help clean up the mess after serious arm-twisting (thanks J-Ho, what a lousy foreign policy leader you were and yet you're not shutting your trap already), with due reference to the resounding success the invasion of Iraq was. I am sure YOU can think of many better ways to spend US $600 billion of YOUR taxes on home soil on such "useless" entitlements as schools, hospitals, infrastructures, R&D, language classes for legal immigrants, etc.

Not to mention avoiding killing 100,000 innocent Iraqi civilians in the process but then again who cares about Iraqis in the grand scheme of great foreign policy, hey?
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12362
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:52 am

To parapharse, the rich and the polliticans are different than us.
It is obscene as well as bad politics to come out with such expensive stuff on. Probably Obama and his wife hasn't spent $300K on all their clothes or jewelry for all of their lives.
 
Speedbird741
Posts: 404
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:13 pm

RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:02 am



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 43):
It is obscene as well as bad politics to come out with such expensive stuff on. Probably Obama and his wife hasn't spent $300K on all their clothes or jewelry for all of their lives.

What is the problem of Cindy McCain comming to such an important event like the RNC, using a dress she bought with her own money....it's her property, drop it, she can buy whatever she likes and wants and use it wherever she feels like it. Believe me, Michelle Obama would use one of those any day if she had the chance. Did any one make a big fuss like this when Kerry and Edwards came out campaigning in a convertible rolls royce which by the way costed like 400K or more ?


Speedbird741
Boa noite Faro, Air Portugal 257 climbing flight level 340
 
PacNWjet
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:05 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 3):
Republicans point out that liberals espouse elitist values that are not in sync with traditional American values of country, family, and individual responsibility.

You apparently have absolutely no idea what the term "elitist" means then.

Oh, believe me, I know what the term "elitist" means. I am a faculty member at a university that is billed as an "elite" institution of higher education and am surrounded by fellow faculty members who boast about their degrees from "elite" universities. Many, if not most, of my colleagues demonstrate their elitism every day. I have been to faculty meetings in which professors have said out loud that part of their job is to disabuse students of what their parents have taught them. This extends across the disciplinary spectrum. One professor of math opined that it is the job of faculty to counter the "conservative" values that students' parents have attempted to inculcate into their children, as if all parents are conservative and every student entering college student has internalized and believes his or her parents' conservative values. The elitism I see every day is the elitism of college faculty who think they know what is right and have no problem whatsoever using their position of authority to proselytize to students who they think are in need of reeducation.

I can't see how wearing an expensive article of clothing equals elitism. Perhaps it is a sign of wealth, but wealth and elitism are not the same thing. Elitism is the idea that because of certain individuals' perception that they are better or more educated or more enlightened they have the right to condescend to their so-called inferiors and look down on them as uninformed rubes in need of enlightenment. I don't see any of that in Cindy McCain. I see a lot of that in my liberal faculty colleagues.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:13 am



Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 45):
Perhaps it is a sign of wealth, but wealth and elitism are not the same thing.

In this country, especially in politics, wealth and elitism nearly always equate. John Edwards is one of very few exceptions.

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 45):
Elitism is the idea that because of certain individuals' perception that they are better or more educated or more enlightened they have the right to condescend to their so-called inferiors and look down on them as uninformed rubes in need of enlightenment.

Again, you really expand the definition of that term.

Webster defines Elitism as follows:

1: leadership or rule by an elite
2: the selectivity of the elite; especially : snobbery
3: consciousness of being or belonging to an elite

Elitism is almost never used correctly in politics, particularly by the right wing. That said, it follows more closely to the real definition that the moneyed elite that so thoroughly dominates Republican politics and interest groups rule by marginalizing those that have less than them. Further, those same groups use terms like "traditional values" to create a "we're better than you" mentality within those that they control but also crap on with their economic policies.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
alfa75
Posts: 488
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:17 am

You know what? I don't like Cindy McCain, and to spend that much money on a wardrobe is just plain stupid, but she has the money so let her spread it around.
The best things in life aren't things!
 
PacNWjet
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RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:25 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 46):
Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 45):
Elitism is the idea that because of certain individuals' perception that they are better or more educated or more enlightened they have the right to condescend to their so-called inferiors and look down on them as uninformed rubes in need of enlightenment.

Again, you really expand the definition of that term.

Webster defines Elitism as follows:

1: leadership or rule by an elite
2: the selectivity of the elite; especially : snobbery
3: consciousness of being or belonging to an elite

Exactly. I have in mind in particular definition #2: Snobbery. That is the elitism espoused by some elements of the liberal establishment in the United States that Republicans find so objectionable. And as I mentioned in my post, at the university where I teach the faculty very much have the sense of "belonging to an elite" (by virtue of their degrees from "elite" institutions of higher education) and by their sense of leadership (if not rule) in educating students to embrace liberal values and reject the apparent conservative values of their parents. I can't see how that extends the definition beyond what the dictionary says.

I repeat, being rich does not equate with having an elite mentality. There are plenty of rich people who have no desire to do anything other than live their own lives as they see fit and have no desire to preach to others. There are, however, quite a few people of modest means (for example, my faculty colleagues) who think of themselves as possessing knowledge bestowed on them by self-styled elite universities and who seek to pass that elite knowledge onto the (in their minds) uneducated slobs who trundle into their classrooms. That is elitism (and snobbery).
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Elitist? Cindy McCain's Monday Outfit Cost $300K

Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:44 am



Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 48):
That is the elitism espoused by some elements of the liberal establishment in the United States that Republicans find so objectionable

Except that the definition specifically precludes the "liberals" you speak of because the value they hold dearest is inclusiveness. It is the right wing that attempts to be selective in who they accept as equals in society, using your exact words; "traditional values".
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss

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