mdsh00
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Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:52 pm

All partisan BS should be left aside in this thread

This Op/Ed piece makes a great argument of the failure that has been Abstinence only education.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/06/op...ml?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Quote:
In fact, a 2001 Unicef report said that the United States teenage birthrate was higher than any other member of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. The U.S. tied Hungary for the most abortions. This was in spite of the fact that girls in the U.S. were not the most sexually active. Denmark held that title. But, its teenage birthrate was one-sixth of ours, and its teenage abortion rate was half of ours.



Quote:
According to a 2004 survey sponsored by NPR, the Kaiser Family Foundation and Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government, 65 percent of parents of high school students said that federal money “should be used to fund more comprehensive sex education programs that include information on how to obtain and use condoms and other contraceptives.”

Thoughts?
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
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moo
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:56 pm



Quoting Mdsh00 (Thread starter):
Thoughts?

I'm moving to Denmark.

Uh, did I say that out loud?
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:08 pm

Wow. If parents would influence their kids to use condoms or birth control, some of this might not happen. However, teens are going to be stupid sometimes and not listen. II do not our public school system for not offering condoms, nor birth control. I am sure had the public school system did that, pregnancy rates would be going down.

Hunter
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jm017
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:42 pm

I saw a report recently contrasting the policy used in the state of Texas versus California. Texas emphasizes abstinence and not a comprehensive sex ed program per se. California promotes sex ed (including abstinence). Texas has the highest teen pregnancy rate of any state in the US. See here.

edit: minor corrections

[Edited 2008-09-06 09:43:50]
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
iairallie
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:57 pm

This should be the responsibility of the parents.
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Rara
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:58 pm



Quoting Mdsh00 (Thread starter):
All partisan BS should be left aside in this thread

Dream big. Of course the Op-Ed is right; but the conservative candidate for the US election just chose a running mate who stands for the opposite, with the consequences open for all to see - and still a large portion of the country, as well as this forum, think that's just a fantastic choice.

It's not my country and not for me to comment on. Obviously people will act based on what they think is right, and nobody can change that really. But then again, I do feel with the hundred thousands of people who have their life seriously messed up as a result of this closed-minded societal behaviour.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:57 pm

To me public schools ought to offer different levels of age appropriate Sexual Responsibility Education (my preferred term) and an 'opt-out' choice involving the parents. This would allow flexibility as to the variances of religious beliefs in a school, yet offer more comprehensive levels to those parents who want that.
The opt-out would be for those students under 18 and are parts of very strict faiths such as Islam, Hindu, Orthodox/Conservative Jewish and of course Christians.
For participants, then have maybe 2-3 levels, including 'abstance only', a middle level and a maximum comprehensive level (like how to use a condom using a banana).
For all students, I would teach the responsibility and moral issues that sexual acts incur, the affects on people, families, and the community from teen pregnancy, the moral issues over abortion, the necessary social skills to reduce risks of sexual assault from not drinking or using drugs, going to a home where a parent isn't home and so on.
 
mdsh00
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:01 pm



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 6):
The opt-out would be for those students under 18 and are parts of very strict faiths such as Islam, Hindu, Orthodox/Conservative Jewish and of course Christians.

I think most Hindu/Indian parents tend to allow it because they are too squeamish to teach us (their kids) themselves. Then again it's very clear that "hanky-panky" is not allowed.  Silly

I take it that each state handles things differently, but when I was in High school in California, they would always send a form home with a permission/opt out and explain what may be taught. I remember few kids' parents ever opting them out.
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DocLightning
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:11 pm



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 6):
For participants, then have maybe 2-3 levels, including 'abstance only', a middle level and a maximum comprehensive level (like how to use a condom using a banana).

That's like saying that we should have an option for people who want their kids to learn creationism in school.

Abstinence-only education simply does not work. Evidence has shown time and time again that it delays sexual onset by less than a year, but subsequently increases teenage pregnancy and STD rate and decreases condom use.

Look, teenagers have been having sex since teenagers were invented. NEVER buy into the Victorian bulldung that in the past people waited until marriage. Do you think Romeo and Juliet were chaste? The point is that sex is a strong drive in the healthy young adult, and teenagers, once in puberty, are healthy young adults whether their parents are willing to accept that simple biological fact or not.

Abstinence is an important form of birth control, but it is by far the least reliable. When held to the same standard as condoms (you have to figure in misuse), it is as much as 80% less reliable. Teenagers need to know that once they do make the decision to have sex, and essentially 100% of them will, there are ways to avoid pregnancy and STD's.

Look, I'm an expert on this subject as a specialist in adolescent medicine. This is what I study and this is what I do. Teenagers, particularly girls, need to learn at a young age to be sexually empowered. If they are going to have sex, then they need to be sure that it is for the right reason.

When I interview a teenager at work and I find out that s/he is sexually active, my next question is always, "Do you enjoy sex?" The boys always answer yes, but the girls sometimes say "It's a'right." That's when I get into the sexual empowerment talk. See, girls need to understand that any man inside them is a guest in their bodies and that he is expected to conduct himself as a guest and a gentleman. That means that 1) he will protect her by wearing a condom every time and 2) he will remember that her pleasure is more important than his own.

In my experience, girls are far less likely to get pregnant or contract an STD if they view themselves as being sexually powerful. This is because they don't fear losing their man if they refuse to have sex with him because he is not being a gentleman.

Yes, abstinence is the best way to avoid these consequences, but, as Jocelyn Elders said: "Abstinence breaks a lot more easily than condoms do!"
-Doc Lightning-

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ZBBYLW
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:47 pm



Quoting Moo (Reply 1):
I'm moving to Denmark.

Ill meet you there!  Big grin  highfive 
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Dougloid
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:42 pm



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 4):
This should be the responsibility of the parents.

It's all bullshit, every bit of it.

When I was a kid, there were girls who did it. They got pregnant. The *lucky* couple disappeared from school. The next time you saw the guy, they were married, he was working at the A&P and they lived in a two room apartment over a store. Shotgun weddings were the order of the day-fact is, I was a participant in that process myself one time. I'm not sorry either. It made me grow up in a hurry, which I needed to do. I did not work at the A&P because I was out of school already. I drove a tow truck for the local wrecking yard, worked in a paper mill, and worked for the phone company.

The point is, people took responsibility for the choices they made, no matter how hard the road was. There were things you simply did not do, there was nonoe of this talk of being a baby daddy or a baby mama, nobody went on welfare while the father disappeared or hung around the corner with all the other unemployed cocksmen, you manned up and faced up to your responsibilities as an adult, because your childhood was officially over.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
luv2fly
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:48 am



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 4):
This should be the responsibility of the parents.

That might be true though it becomes the responsibility of the state when the parents drop the ball, no pun intended.

Like my Mom always said, invest in education that is one thing that can not be taken away from you.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
luv2fly
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:51 am



Quoting JM017 (Reply 3):
I saw a report recently contrasting the policy used in the state of Texas versus California. Texas emphasizes abstinence and not a comprehensive sex ed program per se. California promotes sex ed (including abstinence). Texas has the highest teen pregnancy rate of any state in the US. See here.

TX what Presidents current and former hail from this state again? And you want to elect a President who's staunchly pro-choice for his Vice President she wants to take that choice away from you.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
iairallie
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:42 am



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 11):
Like my Mom always said, invest in education that is one thing that can not be taken away from you.

We are all only one brain injury away from loosing it all.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
ACDC8
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:48 am



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 10):
The point is, people took responsibility for the choices they made, no matter how hard the road was.

What a concept, huh? Seems today that its so much easier to run away from your problems and blame everyone else for them.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
jm017
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:59 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 12):
TX what Presidents current and former hail from this state again? And you want to elect a President who's staunchly pro-choice for his Vice President she wants to take that choice away from you.

My point was the benefits of a comprehensive sex ed program, as is in place in California and elsewhere. It is also not directly a pro-choice versus pro-life debate. But Texas's program is a direct result of its staunchly pro-life stance and emphasis on abstinence.

Good parenting or not, sex amongst teenagers is very high (DocLightning quotes 100%) and this means officials should promote responsible sex education so that teenagers are aware of risks and options, including contraceptives. As for the consequences, well ask the folks in Texas.
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
luv2fly
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:07 pm



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 13):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 11):
Like my Mom always said, invest in education that is one thing that can not be taken away from you.

We are all only one brain injury away from loosing it all.

Well if we leave it up to the parents then you can't lose what you never HAD!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
luv2fly
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:08 pm



Quoting JM017 (Reply 15):
My point was the benefits of a comprehensive sex ed program, as is in place in California and elsewhere. It is also not directly a pro-choice versus pro-life debate. But Texas's program is a direct result of its staunchly pro-life stance and emphasis on abstinence.

Good parenting or not, sex amongst teenagers is very high (DocLightning quotes 100%) and this means officials should promote responsible sex education so that teenagers are aware of risks and options, including contraceptives. As for the consequences, well ask the folks in Texas.

Oh I agree with you a 110%
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:33 pm

Waiting till marriage, before having sex, goes against nature.

It's only because of recent social changes, recent and dramatic increases in the average human's lifespan, and economic reasons, that we have pushed the child bearing years back 1 to 2 decades further into our lives.

There is a reason why we develop sexually at ~12 - nature intended for us to be scr*wing like bunnies! But we fight that instinct, and push it back further and further. And while there is a good reason for having children later in life, it still does not change the fact that we are denying a basic natural mandate.

So all of this crap about immorality, sin, irresponsibility, and indecency is just that: crap.

We're sexual creatures and we suppose to be getting it on from a young age. Teach teens how to scr*w safely, and stop trying to act like the natural mandate does not exist.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:06 pm



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 18):
It's only because of recent social changes, recent and dramatic increases in the average human's lifespan, and economic reasons, that we have pushed the child bearing years back 1 to 2 decades further into our lives.

Yup. As recently as 300 years ago, 16 was a perfectly reasonable age to have your first baby. And you would have them early and often. Why? Because the average lifespan was 30. And the infant mortality rates were astronomical. Heck, 30% of routine births today would result in death for mom, baby, or both without modern medical intervention. In the past, this would happen to almost 30% of first-time mothers. EVERYONE knew a woman who had died in childbirth.

People have NEVER routinely waited until 30 to start having sex. But people today routinely wait until 30 to get married. We've delayed adulthood now back to age 25. But as recently as 100 years ago, an 18yo could be a father and a husband and that was nothing unusual.

You might think that people should just keep their zippers closed and that is your right. The fact is that they won't. So dispense with the wishful thinking and start dealing in reality. You can't stop people from having sex, so try to delay it and then prepare and sexually empower children so that they view sex as what it is and should be and not as 1) proof of adulthood 2) a porn movie 3) a way to get pregnant at 15.
-Doc Lightning-

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gosimeon
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:22 pm

Interesting stats, which highlight the blatantly obvious; if you don't educate young people on sex, they'll still do it, just with greater consequences.

The whole "it's up to the parents, not the state" attitude has some merit, but it's the state that pays the price when some young one pops a few because her uber-conservative parents did not think she should hear about sex until she was 21 or something.

This thing isn't an issue here in Ireland, or the rest of Europe from what I can see. Lets them hear the facts on sex, contraception, abortion and abstinence when they are in school, in their early teens, when they're going to be talking about stuff like this anyway. It should be a non-issue; education is good, ignorance is bad!
 
N1120A
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:35 pm



Quoting Mdsh00 (Thread starter):

Thoughts?

I think the vast majority of those who have posted here have absolutely the right idea. There is no place for abstinence-only education in our society.

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 4):
This should be the responsibility of the parents.

The problem is, like luv2fly said, that when parents don't teach, society ends up having to deal with the consequences. Not only am I talking about things like welfare and the like, but also the problems that come along with children raised in poverty.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):

Yes, abstinence is the best way to avoid these consequences, but, as Jocelyn Elders said: "Abstinence breaks a lot more easily than condoms do!"

Dr. Elders is an excellent doctor and scholar. She should have never been force out of her job.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 11):

That might be true though it becomes the responsibility of the state when the parents drop the ball, no pun intended.

Absolutely agree.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 18):
Waiting till marriage, before having sex, goes against nature.

This is very true. While it is totally natural for humans to pair bond, it is also completely natural for humans to have sex largely for recreation, not procreation.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 18):

So all of this crap about immorality, sin, irresponsibility, and indecency is just that: crap.

The problem is, such tactics have been used to gain hegemony for thousands of years.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
mdsh00
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:48 am



Quoting Gosimeon (Reply 20):

How does this play out in a place like Ireland, regarding contraception? I was also under the impression that Abortion is illegal there except in cases of life and death.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
PPVRA
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:43 am

I am all for SexEd. I don't know why anyone would be against any kind of education/knowledge. Makes no sense, be that from a religious point of view or not.

But with that said,

Quoting Mdsh00 (Thread starter):
In fact, a 2001 Unicef report said that the United States teenage birthrate was higher than any other member of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. The U.S. tied Hungary for the most abortions. This was in spite of the fact that girls in the U.S. were not the most sexually active. Denmark held that title. But, its teenage birthrate was one-sixth of ours, and its teenage abortion rate was half of ours.

Looking at data below in general:

http://www.thenationalcampaign.org/state-data/advanced-search.aspx

Nearly half (~40% in Georgia) of all teen pregnancies are from the Hispanic population, and that is certainly apparent around here in Atlanta. I've read that half of all Latin pregnancies are teen pregnancies in some areas. This is due to ignorance and lack of/poor education back in Latin America, and not just SexEd. So the numbers presented picture an inflated scenario that's quite a bit worse than can really be blamed on the U.S.. But by no means is that to say the numbers are great. This may also be true of other OECD countries with a lot of immigrants.

SexEd is very important. I had my first class when I was in fifth grade.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Flighty
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:04 am



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 6):
and an 'opt-out' choice involving the parents. This would allow flexibility as to the variances of religious beliefs in a school,

For argument's sake, why? What do religions have to do with sex education? Do the body parts work differently for the various religions? How about disease transmission, does the disease only happen to certain religions?

The whole point of sex education is to end ignorance. There is no excuse not to know the facts of life... particularly when these kids are physically armed and dangerous so to speak.

The whole point is to get every kid in there, _especially_ the ones whose parents "do not approve." Those are the kids who don't end up knowing the facts. Those kids are the problem that compulsory education (including sex ed) is designed to fix. Otherwise why have schools at all...
 
Mir
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:23 am



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 18):
Teach teens how to scr*w safely, and stop trying to act like the natural mandate does not exist.

 checkmark  Anything else is just denial of reality, and that doesn't serve kids well.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
As recently as 300 years ago, 16 was a perfectly reasonable age to have your first baby.

Unfortunately, we see this line of thinking in the cultures that still marry girls off at 13 or 14.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Dougloid
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:04 am



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 14):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 10):
The point is, people took responsibility for the choices they made, no matter how hard the road was.

What a concept, huh? Seems today that its so much easier to run away from your problems and blame everyone else for them.

And the reason's quite clear, m'good fellow. Back then there was a social stigma attached to not taking responsibility for your mistakes. It no longer exists as a normative force in Noth American society.

I could have walked away from it but you know what? My family would have disowned me and I would have deserved their contempt.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
jcs17
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:21 am

It's really amazing how public schools are not allowed to celebrate holidays like Christmas, Valentine's Day, or Easter because they're not inclusive holidays, but somehow public schools should require students to go through a Sex Ed program with all the bells and whistles. The double standard is stunning. You're essentially promoting a lifestyle, one way or another, for a child outside their home. Look, I don't care if its abstinence-only or pre-abortion training programs, throwing sex education at children and teens is an absolutely atrocious idea.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
N1120A
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:37 am



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 27):
It's really amazing how public schools are not allowed to celebrate holidays like Christmas, Valentine's Day, or Easter because they're not inclusive holidays

Since when? Kids still given Valentines to their friends, Christmas occurs when schools are on break and Easter is on the weekend, and many school districts still give Good Friday off.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 27):
but somehow public schools should require students to go through a Sex Ed program with all the bells and whistles. The double standard is stunning. You're essentially promoting a lifestyle, one way or another, for a child outside their home

Double standard? More like science.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 27):
Look, I don't care if its abstinence-only or pre-abortion training programs, throwing sex education at children and teens is an absolutely atrocious idea.

Really? Why would something that WORKS be an "atrocious" idea?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:45 am



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 27):
throwing sex education at children and teens is an absolutely atrocious idea.

Yeah..  Yeah sure
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Marquis
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:01 am



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 27):
Look, I don't care if its abstinence-only or pre-abortion training programs, throwing sex education at children and teens is an absolutely atrocious idea.

I simply can't understand the problem of having sex education in younger days? Why are so many people of all ages in the US that straitlaced and narrow minded when it comes to the "sex issue"?

"We are that prude and my kids are, too! So how could my little daughter get pregnant? For sure it's god's act, like Virgin Mary, with that...eeerrrm immaculate conception!"

In Germany we had sex education in the 3rd, 5th and 9th grade and it was perfectly ethical and right in my humble opinion. I can't think of a single pregnant girl or teenie during my whole time at a 1000+ students grammar school.
Riding the radials...
 
HowSwedeitis
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:34 am



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 4):
This should be the responsibility of the parents.



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 27):
You're essentially promoting a lifestyle, one way or another, for a child outside their home.

Wrong and wrong. And here's why:

Quote:
For proof that criminalizing abortion doesn't reduce abortion rates and only endangers the lives of women, consider Latin America. In most of the region, abortions are a crime, but the abortion rate is far higher than in Western Europe or the United States. Colombia - where abortion is illegal even if a woman's life is in danger - averages more than one abortion per woman over all of her fertile years. In Peru, the average is nearly two abortions per woman over the course of her reproductive years.

In a region where there is little sex education and social taboos keep unmarried women from seeking contraception, criminalizing abortion has not made it rare, only dangerous. Rich women can go to private doctors. The rest rely on quacks or amateurs or do it themselves. Up to 5,000 women die each year from abortions in Latin America, and hundreds of thousands more are hospitalized.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/06/op...=Latin%20America%20Abortion&st=cse

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 10):
It made me grow up in a hurry, which I needed to do.

So, having a kid was what made you grow up? Sounds incredibly irresponsible; yet there are many in the same predicament you were in.

-HSII
Heja Sverige!!
 
gosimeon
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:40 pm



Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 22):

How does this play out in a place like Ireland, regarding contraception? I was also under the impression that Abortion is illegal there except in cases of life and death.

Contraception is available and encouraged. Heck, the Government gives me boxes of condoms every time I go to a gig and when college starts!

Abortion is illegal here yeah, which I agree with. The nation is fairly divided on that issue, but I think it's wrong and those who want one can hop on a plane or ferry to Liverpool for less than a fare to Dublin and have one, so it doesn't prevent people having abortions and, most importantly, the state informs people of what abortion involves and how they can get one. Information is the key to all this stuff.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:37 pm



Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 22):
How does this play out in a place like Ireland, regarding contraception? I was also under the impression that Abortion is illegal there except in cases of life and death.

Still illegial in most instances, however it costs next to nothing to jump on a plane or ferry to the UK and sort it out over there.

Quoting Mir (Reply 25):
Unfortunately, we see this line of thinking in the cultures that still marry girls off at 13 or 14

Quite frankly why must we judge other cultures based on our own, I had a Indian manager once who was married at 16, his bride 14 year, they have been happily married for 40 odd years, I am told that this is very common in India, if it works why fight it. It's not as if waiting for marriage US style is any better and I'm pretty sure the divorce rate in the US is much higher than India.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 27):
throwing sex education at children and teens is an absolutely atrocious idea.

What would you propose, just let them hump like rabits and watch the population explosion and potentially a massive increase in abortion and teen suicide.
 
Flighty
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:55 pm

Sex education is completely unnecessary for children who are medically handicapped and will not be having sex.

For the other children... the normal human children over age 11 or 12... guess what... it's like giving "gun safety training" to a person who already owns a gun. Good idea or not? Do gun safety programs promote gun use? Is that what we should be worried about?
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:15 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 34):
Sex education is completely unnecessary for children who are medically handicapped and will not be having sex.

Very common misconception. In fact, during residency, I gave a presentation on sexuality and the disabled adolescent.

Patients with disabilities are often desexualized. Yet, a surprising number of individuals with disabilities, including mental, engage in consensual sex. And even more shocking, >80% of disabled women will be sexually assaulted at least once in their lives.

Almost all healthy adults will be sexually active at some point in their lives. Developmentally normal patients with physical disabilities experience the same urges as the rest of us and develop normal sexual desires. Developmentally delayed patients, depending on how profoundly delayed, may also develop sexual desires. And all consenting adults have a right to sexual activity if so desired.

For example, in a French study of 40 men aged 18-35 with spina bifida, 40% reported sexual activity in the previous 4 weeks.

Individuals with disabilities have specific sexual needs that should be dealt with respectfully and frankly by healthcare professionals. For example, at present, all patients with spina bifida are assumed to be latex allergic (because >70% are actually latex allergic). Thus, patients with spina bifida must be warned to use polyurethane condoms and not latex ones.

Yet, in spite of all we know, fewer than 20% of adolescents with spinal cord issues seek information regarding contraception and only 16% of those who are sexually active use contraception. And some authors argue that adolescents with chronic, disabling conditions are at least as sexually active as their able-bodied peers.

Healthcare providers also need to be educated on certain issues to help their patients make the best contraceptive choices. For example, estrogen/progestin combined contraceptives may theoretically increase the risk for DVT in women who use wheelchairs, although this is extrapolated data from post-operative patients. By contrast, progestin-only preparations don't increase DVT risk, but may increase the risk for osteoporosis. These risks are common to all women, but are exaggerated in women who have mobility impairments because they are not bearing weight on their legs.

Now, obviously, the child who is has spastic-quadruplegic cerebral palsy with profound mental retardation won't benefit from sex ed. But the parents sure can. Because of the brain damage, these kids often hit puberty quite young and are prone to sexual abuse. Parents have decisions to make regarding such issues as contraception and control of menstruation.

Here's a reference: "Melberg Schwier K, Hingsburger D. Sexuality: Your Sons and Daughters with Intellectual Disabilities."
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Flighty
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:26 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):
Patients with disabilities are often desexualized. Yet, a surprising number of individuals with disabilities, including mental, engage in consensual sex. And even more shocking, >80% of disabled women will be sexually assaulted at least once in their lives.

Very true, I did not mean to generalize across all disabilities, but merely the (very awkward) subgroup of those who can't won't have sex because it's some sort of impossibility medically, like the boy in the bubble and so on! It was more of a tongue in cheek comment. Cheers
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:43 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 36):
Very true, I did not mean to generalize across all disabilities, but merely the (very awkward) subgroup of those who can't won't have sex because it's some sort of impossibility medically, like the boy in the bubble

Betcha he'll discover masturbation. All boys do...
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AircraftGeek
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:54 pm



Quoting Mdsh00 (Thread starter):
failure that has been Abstinence only education.

Abstinence only works quite well!

Signed,
Nothing is fool-proof given a sufficiently skilled fool
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:51 pm



Quoting Marquis (Reply 30):
In Germany we had sex education in the 3rd, 5th and 9th grade and it was perfectly ethical and right in my humble opinion. I can't think of a single pregnant girl or teenie during my whole time at a 1000+ students grammar school.

Thinking back, I can say the same. No teenage pregnancy at my highschool during the time I was there (and certainly not because the students were abstinent, but they all learned, before the onset of puberty, the basics about contraceptions).

Quoting Gosimeon (Reply 32):
Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 22):

How does this play out in a place like Ireland, regarding contraception? I was also under the impression that Abortion is illegal there except in cases of life and death.

Contraception is available and encouraged. Heck, the Government gives me boxes of condoms every time I go to a gig and when college starts!

Abortion is illegal here yeah, which I agree with. The nation is fairly divided on that issue, but I think it's wrong and those who want one can hop on a plane or ferry to Liverpool for less than a fare to Dublin and have one, so it doesn't prevent people having abortions and, most importantly, the state informs people of what abortion involves and how they can get one. Information is the key to all this stuff.

I sed to live in western Ireland between spring 1998 and fall 2000. I got shocked about the high number of teenage mums I saw there (though I have to say that most of them seemed to have fallen in the class of chavettes).

Jan
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LAXintl
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:01 pm

Put it this way -- while abstinence might not be as successful as many would wish, it is not a reason for Federal funding to be used that encourages and openly teaches sex-ed which goes against religious belief's of a large percentage of the population (eg-use of birth control).

For many, this is very much one of the conversations that should take place at home, and by pushing abstinence the government can very nicely defer things to families to discuss as how they see fit.

[Edited 2008-09-08 13:32:01]
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N1120A
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:38 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 40):
Put it this way -- while abstinence might not be as successful as many would wish, it is not a reason for Federal funding to be used that encourages and openly teaches sex-ed which goes against religious belief's of a large percentage of the population (eg-use of birth control).

The government has no business catering to people's religious beliefs.
The government has a very clear and compelling interest in making sure children aren't having children and getting sexually transmitted diseases.
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Mir
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:07 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 40):
while abstinence might not be as successful as many would wish, it is not a reason for Federal funding to be used that encourages and openly teaches sex-ed which goes against religious belief's of a large percentage of the population (eg-use of birth control).

First of all, most people in the country believe that sex education should include both abstinence and various forms of contraception.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 41):
The government has a very clear and compelling interest in making sure children aren't having children and getting sexually transmitted diseases.

 checkmark  More teen pregancies is bad for the country, no matter how you cut it.

-Mir
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akiss20
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:12 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 40):
Put it this way -- while abstinence might not be as successful as many would wish, it is not a reason for Federal funding to be used that encourages and openly teaches sex-ed which goes against religious belief's of a large percentage of the population (eg-use of birth control).

For many, this is very much one of the conversations that should take place at home, and by pushing abstinence the government can very nicely defer things to families to discuss as how they see fit.

And a lot of families would rather a health teacher in a public school do it than themselves. What is wrong with having full sex-ed, but with an opt-out option for religious reasons (although personally, I think all teens should go through full sex-ed. Just because your parents pulls you out of sex-ed for religious reasons, doesn't mean you will abstain from sex. And then you won't have the benefit of knowing how to do it safely).

Full sex-ed in schools allow students to get much more information than they might from parents anyways. Parents don't necessarily have such easy access to statistics, teaching aids, etc as schools.
Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:23 pm



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 4):
This should be the responsibility of the parents.

 checkmark  I couldn't agree more. The birds and the bees talk should be done regularly between the 6th grade into High school. More pro-active parents would help decrease the unwanted pregnancy during those years.

It's a good thing I went to a high school as to where I never saw a pregnant teen, at least I didn't see one. But go to Tacoma, WA to a high school named Mt. Tahoma, a school in our league.... at that school, almost 1 in every 15 girls are pregnant at any given time. Source: My ex-gf graduated from that school.

Good riddance!!!!!!
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Aaron747
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:37 pm



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 18):
So all of this crap about immorality, sin, irresponsibility, and indecency is just that: crap.

We're sexual creatures and we suppose to be getting it on from a young age. Teach teens how to scr*w safely, and stop trying to act like the natural mandate does not exist.

Correct would be an understatement.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 27):
Look, I don't care if its abstinence-only or pre-abortion training programs, throwing sex education at children and teens is an absolutely atrocious idea.

How so? There are always comments like this thrown around from the sex-ed vilification crowd, with no qualifiers or support.
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Flighty
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:17 am



Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 43):
And a lot of families would rather a health teacher in a public school do it than themselves. What is wrong with having full sex-ed, but with an opt-out option for religious reasons (although personally, I think all teens should go through full sex-ed. Just because your parents pulls you out of sex-ed for religious reasons, doesn't mean you will abstain from sex. And then you won't have the benefit of knowing how to do it safely).

I agree, all kids should be gifted with the whole sex ed. What possible relevance could religion have on ... how pregnancy occurs... how STDs are / are not transferred? These are not religious topics, they are basic human hygiene and science. There are no opinions expressed in a proper sex ed class, only facts. Facts are not religious nor do clergy have any impact on it.

Kids can skip sex ed. They can skip any part of their schooling. But they should be punished for skipping school (truancy) if they do.

This is basic curriculum just like literacy. Many people believe girls should not be taught to read. I make a point of arguing against those people and the same goes for this.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:26 am

I dont believe people or society has a big problem with general sex-ed. The problem has more to do with specific curriculum of what is thought, and how and if Federal funding is provided for such.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 41):
The government has no business catering to people's religious beliefs.

Yes indeed -- however government funding should not in the same light be openly used to teach and make a certain lifestyle preferable over others.
For instance encouraging use of contraceptives, and about the availability abortions, one set of moral views would be openly encouraged by the government over others.

Hence the why Federal funding instead support a much more neutral stance such as abstinence.
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akiss20
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:41 am



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 47):
Yes indeed -- however government funding should not in the same light be openly used to teach and make a certain lifestyle preferable over others.
For instance encouraging use of contraceptives, and about the availability abortions, one set of moral views would be openly encouraged by the government over others.

Hence the why Federal funding instead support a much more neutral stance such as abstinence.

But it is also the Federal government's responsibility to respond to the situation at hand, aka the fact that numerous studies suggest that abstinence-only education is not productive or effective. In essence, the current policy is to waste money supporting an educational program that is not effective. The Fed. govt can either a)abandon the abstinence-only education program and just allow states on their own to fund sex-ed and choose the curriculum or b)fund a comprehensive sex-ed program as I outlines above. I would prefer B. But as it is right now, the Fed. govt is wasting money on an ineffective program.
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bok269
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RE: Good Op-Ed On Sex Education In The US

Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:56 am



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 47):
make a certain lifestyle preferable over others.

It doesn't make any lifestyle preferable. All it does is say, "look, your best bet is to be abstinent, but if you don't, here's what you need to know..."

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 44):
   I couldn't agree more. The birds and the bees talk should be done regularly between the 6th grade into High school. More pro-active parents would help decrease the unwanted pregnancy during those years.

And if the parents don't teach their kids?
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