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HAWK21M
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Which US President Better For India

Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:55 pm

Which would be the better US president for Reations with INDIA among the Democrats & Republicans.

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MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
mdsh00
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:15 pm

Well,

Republicans have been historically more "India Friendly" and it was during the Bush administration that outsourcing became such a major issue. From the people I know, Indian voters are split between Democrat and Republican over here. Some favoring Republicans to their promises of lower taxes and others favoring Democrats due to their general appeal to minorities and the fact that they don't share most of the social conservative values of the Republicans.

To be honest I don't know what their exact positions are but this article might help. Although it was written back before the conventions:

http://www.cfr.org/publication/14750/

Both of the candidates support and voted in favor of the Nuclear deal and it seems like both will be continuing a good relationship with India. In a way they have to, since it is now a rapidly emerging nation and the number of Indian Americans is now reaching 2 million and growing.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:18 pm

If you believe what people say, Obama wants to back off on free trade and globalization (so-called job exports), of which India has been a beneficiary vis-a-vis the USA.

The second point is one I would like your opinion on. India has been fighting radical islam for a lot longer than the USA, namely concerning Kashmir. I saw an interview with the leader of one of Pakistan's religious political parties, who comes straight out and says that their long term goal is to force all of India to become an Islamic state, by any means necessary. What does india want to see? A US president that recognizes radical Islam as an existential threat, or one who believes that it's just a matter for law enforcement?
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - W. Churchill
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:22 pm

Oh, and I might remind you that a very credible future presidential candidate exists among Republicans in Bobby Jindal. If he continues to work like he is, he may well be a candidate within the next 8 years, and from what I've seen of him, I'd vote for him.

How would India like to have an Indian-American in the White House?
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - W. Churchill
 
mdsh00
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:39 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
Oh, and I might remind you that a very credible future presidential candidate exists among Republicans in Bobby Jindal. If he continues to work like he is, he may well be a candidate within the next 8 years, and from what I've seen of him, I'd vote for him.

How would India like to have an Indian-American in the White House?

At this moment in time, I would not vote for Bobby Jindal if he were running for president. I'm sure people in India may like it, but Indian voters in the US are fiercely divided on him. Some like him because he's "still one of us." But for a lot, there's a feeling that his views and attitudes don't really represent the values of his community, namely his very ultra conservative views and some incidents that were perceived as an insult and him trying to distance himself from the Indian Community.

Like the conundrum that some Hillary women are feeling, many Indians feel the same; whether or not to vote for someone just because he shares your heritage. At the end of the day, people know that Bobby Jindal could win without the Indian community supporting him. Here are a couple of good articles about the subject:

http://www.theroot.com/id/47817

http://www.progressive.org/mag_wxap052208

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
I saw an interview with the leader of one of Pakistan's religious political parties, who comes straight out and says that their long term goal is to force all of India to become an Islamic state, by any means necessary.

 redflag  on his part. That will never happen. Can't speak for Pakistanis but as much as Indians bleat about Pakistan (couple of those in my Family), most people would like the cross border terrorism to stop and just let India be and that the world put more pressure on Pakistan to root out the sources of terrorism within it's own borders (NW Pak). It's also why many Indians had a problem with Iraq, because they believe the real source of the problem is there.

Interestingly Indians and Pakistanis tend to get along much better in the US.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
comorin
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:51 pm

Good question:

First, my biases: I am a rabid Libertarian and died laughing once reading 'The Communist Manifesto'. To me, the Four Horsemen are all Republicans IMO  Wink Also, I think India and the US have a lot in common and should be BFF. Indian Commies should be deported to China...

1. Economy: The Bushies did India a big one with the NSG deal. The India-haters like Kissinger are not part of mainstream Republicanism thinking anymore. The Democrats are traditionally union and working-class leaning, so they may be anti H1-B visas and Outsourcing. There is also the pesky question of Farm subsidies...

2. Security: The current US Administration is very pro-India, while the democratic point of view is not so clear. India's main security concerns are an unstable Pakistan and the land-grabbing descendants of Genghis Khan in the Northeast. The Republican Administration (mostly Condi) has been very reassuring to India on that front.

3. Technology Transfer: With the NSG deal and the MRCA bid, the current Administration has shown great willingness to transfer technology.

I would say that India will do well under either, even though the Republicans have the track record to prove it. The 'core' in the Republican Party will secretly hope India's 1B people will be Born Again, while core Democrats will always see Indians as taking away US jobs.


All this doesn't matter if India descends into a quagmire of petty communalism. It hasn't happened in the last 60 years, but I worry about it now more than ever.

Of course, no thread on this topic is complete without Barfbag's and sv7887's views  Smile
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:04 pm



Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 5):
But for a lot, there's a feeling that his views and attitudes don't really represent the values of his community,

That view is highly offensive to me. His 'community' is the State of Louisiana, and perhaps, one day, beyond.. If people are supposed to represent the interests or values of their specific ethnic background, then you cannot complain if white wealthy politicians look out for their white wealthy friends.

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 5):
Like the conundrum that some Hillary women are feeling, many Indians feel the same; whether or not to vote for someone just because he shares your heritage.

The same goes for this group.

But I think the issue of this thread has gotten confused. I think the original question was which US president would be good for Indians in India, not Indian immigrants in the US.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - W. Churchill
 
mdsh00
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:22 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):

That view is highly offensive to me. His 'community' is the State of Louisiana, and perhaps, one day, beyond.. If people are supposed to represent the interests or values of their specific ethnic background, then you cannot complain if white wealthy politicians look out for their white wealthy friends.

The point is not that people expect him to "look out for us" but to at least acknowledge it. Politicians are always acknowledging their "Irish Catholic" or "Italian" backgrounds. If non-Indian politicians have no problem appearing at Indian cultural events, why is he not? Like everyone says, people should vote for someone that they feel comfortable voting for, and the fact of the matter remains, that many Indian voters (of course not all) aren't comfortable with him and will not vote for him on a national level just because he's Indian.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):
But I think the issue of this thread has gotten confused. I think the original question was which US president would be good for Indians in India, not Indian immigrants in the US.

Ok back to the original question, I think both would be good, but maybe McCain a little more. What happens, we will see.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:36 pm



Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 1):
Both of the candidates support and voted in favor of the Nuclear deal and it seems like both will be continuing a good relationship with India.

Looks like the Deal is on course.....Manmohan singh risked his government to vouch for the deal.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
How would India like to have an Indian-American in the White House?

I think the Individual would matter more than his colour.

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 5):
most people would like the cross border terrorism to stop

True.It is the Biggest threat out here.

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 5):
Interestingly Indians and Pakistanis tend to get along much better in the US.

Thats cause the problem is with the politicians not the common folks.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
luv2fly
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:34 pm

Well now that Palin has her passport, that she only got back on 2007, her first one I might add, she can now go overseas.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
N867DA
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:44 pm



Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 5):
At this moment in time, I would not vote for Bobby Jindal if he were running for president.

 checkmark  I wouldn't vote for him if he ran for dog catcher.

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 5):
." But for a lot, there's a feeling that his views and attitudes don't really represent the values of his community, namely his very ultra conservative views and some incidents that were perceived as an insult and him trying to distance himself from the Indian Community.

...and there's the problem. Some Indian people harp on and on about how their native son is making strides in American politics. Why should the Indian-American community keep on promoting someone who clearly wants no part of it?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
How would India like to have an Indian-American in the White House?

It'd be nice, but I'd rather wait for someone decent to come along. It won't do much good for India if Bobby Jindal is elected President. Jindal isn't any more pro-India than any other politician as far as I know. Some politicians are different though. JFK clearly had a soft spot for Ireland, for example. Jindal doesn't seem to have the same feeling toward India.

I think both candidates will want to improve relations with India, but they will focus on different things. Republicans may want to get some help on the War on Terror© . I hope India is wise enough not to get muddled up in Iraq too much.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:59 pm



Quoting N867DA (Reply 14):
Republicans may want to get some help on the War on Terror© . I hope India is wise enough not to get muddled up in Iraq too much.

India's policy has always been to send troops only under the UN flag & thats what they keep doing.I guess that will stay.

was just wondering...would India be invited to join NATO ever.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
N867DA
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:34 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15):
was just wondering...would India be invited to join NATO ever.

Even though it's obvious being near the North Atlantic isn't needed, I doubt that a country so distant from Europe or North America will be allowed to join NATO.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:04 am



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 13):
Well now that Palin has her passport, that she only got back on 2007, her first one I might add, she can now go overseas.

In light of that statement I can't see how anyone in their right mind could ever consider voting for a president with her on the ticket. Scary stuff for the world if John gets in has a heart attack (considering his age the stress of the job it must be a real possibility) during the first term and that freak show becomes the president.
 
sudden
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:06 am



Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 6):
Quoting Sudden (Reply 4):

No US president would ever be good for India!
India would most likely do much better without an American president running THEIR country as well.

Now all you US folks can start flame me as much as you like.

Aim for the sky!
Sudden


Way to come in here and try to throw off an actually intelligent discussion

Great, thanks for the compliment!

Aim for the sky!
Sudden
When in doubt, flat out!
 
sv7887
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:04 pm

Hi All,
It's hard to say which party would be better. The Bush administration has been unusually friendly towards India, is it out of economic interest or just plain practicality? I don't know...

The USA has been largely a Pakistani Ally, and I don't think that is going to change whether Obama or McCain is elected. Indians I think are also equally cynical of close defense ties with the US given their propensity to embargo arms sales when we do something they don't like.

That said, the US does see India as an economic power, and of course supplier of skilled labor to the world. Just look at the US corporate demand for Indian engineers, scientists, and doctors.

There perhaps is a defense element to it as well. The US might be thinking of befriending the Indians as a counter to China...But I think China's military is in a better position than India's for now. Of course then you have the Russians who are a historical ally of India.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 9):
Well now that Palin has her passport, that she only got back on 2007, her first one I might add, she can now go overseas

Right, versus voting for a guy who doesn't know how the UN works (Telling Georgia to go to the UN where Russia has veto power) and advocates attacking Pakistan, a nuclear armed nation? Yeah real smart. Traveling to foreign countries and telling people what they want to hear isn't a qualification for President..

Otherwise Angelina Jolie would win in a landslide...



Both o
 
luv2fly
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:13 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 9):
Well now that Palin has her passport, that she only got back on 2007, her first one I might add, she can now go overseas

Right, versus voting for a guy who doesn't know how the UN works (Telling Georgia to go to the UN where Russia has veto power) and advocates attacking Pakistan, a nuclear armed nation? Yeah real smart. Traveling to foreign countries and telling people what they want to hear isn't a qualification for President..

Otherwise Angelina Jolie would win in a landslide...

Maybe he should ask Mcain.


You can cut the irony with a knife
 
sv7887
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:33 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 16):
Maybe he should ask Mcain.


Give me a break, so he mis-spoke. How many times a day do these politicians speak in front of the cameras?

Here is Obama's 57 states gaffe:



Does that mean Obama doesn't know how many states there are? Of course he does. He was probably tired and made a mistake. Obama must speak at least once a day to the public.

I don't see anyone making a big deal out of it.

I know you enjoy stirring the pot and making trouble, but stick to the topic, what do you think about India?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:30 pm

I Don't think slippage of tongue denotes a bad president,nor does a broken family indicate that.
a president needs to lead from a strong position.
What I'm looking at is from INDIAs point of view,which party policies would favour India more on various topics.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
BarfBag
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:42 pm



Quoting Comorin (Reply 5):
Of course, no thread on this topic is complete without Barfbag's and sv7887's views

Quite an honour indeed, m'lord  Smile I'll prefix my statement with the disclaimer that *everything* I say is from an Indian perspective, and has *nothing* to do with domestic US politics.

As for the US candidates, I've not had a very good opinion of Democrats in general after the Bill Clinton days. Clinton was one of the worst US presidents from our perspective, continuously harrassing us on the trade and strategic domains. That said, Reagan was no better, thanks to his Afghan war compulsions.

I think Bush Jr was a great US president from our perspective. The recently concluded IAEA+NSG waivers owe themselves to US leaning heavily on everyone, especially China, the wild card. In retrospect, Bush might one day be lauded for this on a Nixon-in-China level.

Among current candidates, I like McCain, but know nothing about his VP. I am not so partial to Obama, mainly because he drove the addition of restrictions in the US Hyde Act regarding the nuclear deal, and sounds like a tiresome Bill Clinton clone at times. On the other hand I like Biden because he supported the deal well.

I cannot therefore make an easy pick. Just having some wizened dude or young charmer as president is of no consequence. It depends *significantly* on their ranks - who will be Sec. State, Commerce Secretary etc. All these matter. To further trade and strategic ties requires good rapport between Indian MEA and US State Dept, Indian Commerce Ministry and US Dept of Commerce etc. That is what matters from my perspective.
 
PSA727
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:32 pm

McCain is a free trade person. Obama and the unions that support him tend not to be.
What I find hypocritical of Obama is that he talks about restoring the relationships the
U.S. has fractured over the past 8 years. But how friendly is it to say, "Like us again, but
we're going to put tariffs on your products." YES WE CAN!

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 9):
Well now that Palin has her passport, that she only got back on 2007, her first one I might add, she can now go overseas

She already has. In fact, while she was in Germany she visited wounded soldiers in the
military hospital, whereas Obama got a good workout in the Ritz-Carlton's gym. And
wasn't this Obama's first visit to Iraq? Looks like she was there a year before him.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:21 am

Would The India-US civil nuclear deal if signed soon be Bush's greatest foreign policy success from an American perspective or are there others.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
pnqiad
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:50 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
How would India like to have an Indian-American in the White House?

Jindal has always tried strenuously to hide his Indian origin - from changing his name and religion to moving to extreme right for sake of votes. So I am not sure if he were ever elected would be necessarily a positive for India.
 
BarfBag
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:56 pm



Quoting PNQIAD (Reply 22):
Jindal has always tried strenuously to hide his Indian origin - from changing his name and religion to moving to extreme right for sake of votes. So I am not sure if he were ever elected would be necessarily a positive for India.

 thumbsup 
When I read 'Bobby Jindal', I don't think "Indian American". I think "right wing Christian fundamentalist".
 
Delta767300ER
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:00 am

PQuote]When I read 'Bobby Jindal', I don't think "Indian American". I think "right wing Christian fundamentalist".[/Quote]

Isnt he Roman Catholic? Also, Was he Hindu before changing? Thanks!

-Delta767300ER
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:05 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
I saw an interview with the leader of one of Pakistan's religious political parties, who comes straight out and says that their long term goal is to force all of India to become an Islamic state, by any means necessary.

Well, the Algerian terrorists, who hijacked the Air france Airbus some 10 years ago demanded among other things that Chirac would convert to Islam and that France would be declared an Islamic nation with islam being state relligion.
I think if it would go after these religious fascists ALL of the earth would have to become Muslim, under their rule of course.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
mdsh00
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:58 am



Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 24):
Isnt he Roman Catholic? Also, Was he Hindu before changing? Thanks!

Yup and Yup. He converted in High School.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:13 pm

What are the Foreign policies of both candidates towards INDIA.Looks like both seem to be similiar.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Delta767300ER
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:58 pm



Quote:
Yup and Yup. He converted in High School.

Ok, Thanks. *If* he was Hindu, how to you think the U.S. population would view his faith if he ran for Prez?

-Delta767300ER
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:42 am

In case the Civil Nuclear deal goes through.anmohan singh might be visiting the USA later this month.
What are the chances he would meet both the candidates,or the otherway around.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
pnqiad
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:33 pm



Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 28):
Ok, Thanks. *If* he was Hindu, how to you think the U.S. population would view his faith if he ran for Prez?

That is the unfortunate reality in the US - no matter how patriotic / heroic / qualified you are - if you are a non-Christian, you almost assuredly have no chance of succeeding in a run to the highest office. heck - even some Christian denominations are more equal than others here...
 
mdsh00
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:02 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 29):
In case the Civil Nuclear deal goes through.anmohan singh might be visiting the USA later this month.
What are the chances he would meet both the candidates,or the otherway around.

I personally don't think that he would go meet (or the other way around) as presidential candidates but maybe just as Senators. From what I understood, foreign politicians usually don't put any public support in the candidates of another country.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Which US President Better For India

Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:41 pm



Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 31):
From what I understood, foreign politicians usually don't put any public support in the candidates of another country.

I remember during Vajpayee visit to the US during Bill clinton times...Both Bush & Al Gore met him personally at seperate times.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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