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HAWK21M
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India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:30 pm

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/W..._on_course/articleshow/3453032.cms
with the NSG go ahead...The deal looks on course.

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MEL
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pacificjourney
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:03 pm

...now we only have the US congress left to hopefully flush this turd !
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:51 pm

Quoting Pacificjourney (Reply 1):



...now we only have the US congress left to hopefully flush this turd !

would there be any hitch.I don't think so.in fact only hitch was the NSG.
regds
MEL

[Edited 2008-09-06 16:03:01]
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DfwRevolution
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm



Quoting Pacificjourney (Reply 1):
...now we only have the US congress left to hopefully flush this turd !

Yeah, because what this world needs is another developing economy of +1 billion people consuming fossil fuels like gangbusters...  thumbsdown 
 
N867DA
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:36 pm



Quoting Pacificjourney (Reply 1):

It'll probably go through Congress without a hitch. I'll be very surprised if this gets flushed down the toilet. Good thing, right?  Smile
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andrej
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:43 am

Interesting as FT had an article on Friday that this deal was not supported by four nations in the NSG. I was expecting little more resistance from those NSG nations (as suggested by the article) and it makes me wonder what they have been promised in return for favorable vote.  mischievous 

Hey nuclear energy is good and clean so it should help India and rest of the World. What happens to the India's military nuclear stock/program?

BTW last month's Bloomberg Magazine had interesting story about India and use of wind power. There are projects and developments that use more efficient and larger wind turbines that need lower wind speeds to produce the power energy. If everything goes as planed substantial power will be generated by wind in not that distant future (2015+).

So combination of nuclear and power energy should be seen as a good step to make the World little cleaner.  Smile

Cheers,
Andrej
 
BarfBag
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:32 am



Quoting Andrej (Reply 5):
makes me wonder what they have been promised in return for favorable vote.

Greater access to the Indian market perhaps ? Nothing sinister about it. Money talks...

Quoting Andrej (Reply 5):
What happens to the India's military nuclear stock/program?

The deal requires partitioning out of the military program into a separate ecosystem so that the civilian nuclear program is separate and safeguarded, enabling ease of verification and the ability on India's part to import and export nuclear components and technology for civilian use, under NSG guidelines.

Quoting Andrej (Reply 5):

BTW last month's Bloomberg Magazine had interesting story about India and use of wind power. There are projects and developments that use more efficient and larger wind turbines that need lower wind speeds to produce the power energy.

India already is among the world's biggest wind power producers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power
Country Megawatts
Germany 22247
USA 16818
Spain 15145
India 8000
China 6050
Denmark 3129
However, wind power cannot serve well for base load production due to its variable nature. Nuclear power is excellent for that purpose.
 
andrej
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:51 pm



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 6):
Greater access to the Indian market perhaps ? Nothing sinister about it. Money talks...

It is possible and most probably what happened, but US was the one pushing for the approval.

From NY Times:

The Bush administration had pressed N.S.G. members not to impose such restrictions on India. The exact terms of the agreement were unclear on Saturday night.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 6):
The deal requires partitioning out of the military program into a separate ecosystem so that the civilian nuclear program is separate and safeguarded, enabling ease of verification and the ability on India's part to import and export nuclear components and technology for civilian use, under NSG guidelines.

Thanks for the info.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 6):
However, wind power cannot serve well for base load production due to its variable nature. Nuclear power is excellent for that purpose.

I agree with you, hence I stated that combination of both will compliment each other quite well.  Smile
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:39 pm



Quoting Andrej (Reply 5):
it makes me wonder what they have been promised in return for favorable vote.

Yup that was one thing being considered......India was firm in not budging from its stated position.....Wonder what the USA offered the Four countries.

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MEL
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BarfBag
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:48 pm



Quoting Andrej (Reply 7):
It is possible and most probably what happened, but US was the one pushing for the approval.

Yes, but it is ultimately about access to the Indian market. GE/Westinghouse want to sell reactors. So does Areva of France, Toshiba of Japan and Rosatom of Russia. On the other hand you have little countries like Austria and New Zealand that sell no nuclear technology but sit in the NSG and claim opposition to NSG-Indian trade. They are just sock puppets, and commercial benefits won out.China too opposed India at NSG because they claim 'sole leadership of Asia', and want to hamper us, but ultimately fell in because US+Russia+France+UK took on them.

It would be no surprise if representatives from the above (and other) companies have already flown to India over the weekend and have tomorrow (Monday) morning appointments with the Indian government to do business. They are most welcome. We have a fast growing economy and plenty of opportunities for them.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:38 pm



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 9):
China too opposed India

What were their Arguements?
regds
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HAWK21M
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:13 am

When will the US Congress meet up to decide on passing this deal?
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HAWK21M
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:31 am

Just on the news that Bush has invited Manmohan to visit the USA on 26th September 2008.
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BarfBag
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:20 am



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11):
When will the US Congress meet up to decide on passing this deal?

The deal was apparently tabled before the US Congress on Wednesday night, US time, i.e. a day ago. Bush is pushing for it to be approved before end of September, when the Congress goes into recess for the upcoming elections.

The sooner they can approve it, the sooner US companies can start dealing with India. In fact, it appears to be a two way trade from the outset, with the US wanting to import Indian heavy water.

The French, Russians and Britons have already started separate discussions to sign bilateral agreement for nuclear equipment trade. There's apparently a plan to open a tender for a total of 12 power reactors initially, the informal agreement being to split it between the Americans, the French and Russians, perhaps equally.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:25 am

There are strong indications that the deal will go through this month,unless its US congress that has majority democrats support decides not to give GWB his biggest achievement in 5 yrs  Smile
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MEL
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HAWK21M
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:13 am



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 13):
The French, Russians and Britons have already started separate discussions to sign bilateral agreement for nuclear equipment trade

With the NSG clearence.......Can India sign a Nuclear deal with any country from the NSG.....or will another clearence need to be sought again?
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MEL.
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BarfBag
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:43 am



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15):
With the NSG clearence.......Can India sign a Nuclear deal with any country from the NSG.....or will another clearence need to be sought again?

We can sign a deal with anyone now. We're just doing the Americans a favour by giving them an opportunity to benefit commercially, by letting them conclude their own domestic policy framework so that their companies can participate. The Americans after all, were instrumental in pushing the matter through the NSG, and deserve the commercial break. Otherwise the Russians and French would have already been all over the first round of deals. Representatives from Areva and Rosatom are already in New Delhi.
AFP: India nears nuclear deals with Russia, France
India, US companies discuss nuclear sales
India assures US of nuclear business
France offers India EPR nuclear technology
France adds nuclear fuel guarantee to offer
The first deal will be signed with France:
Xinhua: India to sign first nuclear deal with France on September 30
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:55 am



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 16):
Representatives from Areva and Rosatom are already in New Delhi.

Heard there was some activity going on.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 16):
The first deal will be signed with France:

Wouldn't the PM be in US hoping to sign on the 26th....If it goes through,that would be the first.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 16):
We can sign a deal with anyone now

Great news...I heard Aus still insists on the NPT signing to trade uranium.whats with this government...
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MEL
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BarfBag
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:18 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 17):
I heard Aus still insists on the NPT signing to trade uranium.whats with this government

It is their matter. If they can live with trading nuclear material with a maverick Russia and an assertive China, but not a rising democratic India, so be it.

The NPT 'P-5' is now a de facto P5+1, because the Indian nuclear weapons program is officially recognized and accomodated; other powers are now willing to do business regardless, and not avoid doing business because of it. That does not apply to any other NPT non-signatory, like the Israelis, Pakis etc. In other words, we are no longer one of the excluded list.

Australia, it seems, places more value on words on paper, than on reality. But we have other sources of Uranium, in addition to thousands of kilograms of enriched fuel built up over the years. Perhaps they will come around some day, but their stance isn't particularly bothersome from our perspective. It's their internal politics.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 17):
Wouldn't the PM be in US hoping to sign on the 26th....

Possibly. It's fairly obvious both Bush and Condoleeza Rice are pushing for the Congress to complete the process before Singh's arrival, rather than disappoint him (and their own business interests). In the case of the French, they pretty much have the paper and pen ready, so they are claimed as the first.
 
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:38 pm



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 6):
Greater access to the Indian market perhaps ? Nothing sinister about it. Money talks...

the correct phraseology, m'dear Bag as expounded by my crew chief is "money talks and bullshit walks".


 Wink
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HAWK21M
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:53 am



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 18):
It's their internal politics.

It def looks that way.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 18):
Possibly. It's fairly obvious both Bush and Condoleeza Rice are pushing for the Congress to complete the process before Singh's arrival, rather than disappoint him

Hopefully it would not be an Invitation & no signing.That would a bit of an embarrassment.

What are the other sources of uranium?

regds
MEL...
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BarfBag
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:30 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 20):
Hopefully it would not be an Invitation & no signing.That would a bit of an embarrassment.

Interesting going ons in recent days - India announced plans to sign agreements with Russia and France, while the US issued assurances that their domestic vote would be completed by Sept.26th. The Prime Minister will travel to Paris after his trip to Washington, while the Russian foreign minister will visit Delhi on 20th, when a deal is expected to be donw with them:
N-deal before September 26, assures Rice
India set to sign nuclear deals with Russia, France
Right now, only the US has potential to lose anything. We no longer need to deal with them if they cannot make their own domestic policy changes quickly, and can go elsewhere. We'd like to give them some of the deals as a thank you measure, but that's only possible if they sew up their own policies. If their Democrats block the deal until after their elections, they are the ones who lose out billion $ deals to Russia and France.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 20):
What are the other sources of uranium?

Various. The Russians have their own as well as neighbouring ex-Soviet states. The French have supplies from African sources, like Niger. Even Canada might be a possibility,, if they aren't still hung up about CIRUS.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:57 am

If Deals with France & Russia are on the cards...Don't see much noise by the opposition as with the US deal.Any idea why?
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astuteman
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:50 am



Quoting Andrej (Reply 5):
Hey nuclear energy is good and clean so it should help India and rest of the World. What happens to the India's military nuclear stock/program?

FWIW I understand that modern reactor designs, like the AP1000, are much less conducive to the extraction of fuel for weapons use........

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 6):
However, wind power cannot serve well for base load production due to its variable nature. Nuclear power is excellent for that purpose.

Perfectly well put. Nuclear is the ultimate base load source (so long as you've got some way of soaking up the load at night, like hydro-electric storage)

Rgds
 
BarfBag
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:34 am



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 22):
Any idea why?

Internal US politics. I don't know much about it. sorry.

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 23):
FWIW I understand that modern reactor designs, like the AP1000, are much less conducive to the extraction of fuel for weapons use.

We don't really have any intention of using the civilian reactors for fissile material production. We explicitly intend to maintain a separate military research reactor program, something that's accepted in the current agreement.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:53 am

Well only a Week to Go & we'll know  Smile
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MEL
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:25 am

I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:22 am


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/P..._of_N-deal/articleshow/3528821.cms
No Signing of the Deal on this visit I guess.
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MEL
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BarfBag
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:16 am

The US government is too busy with their financial crisis right now. There'll probably be more positive outcomes during Singh's visit to Paris, and the Russian foreign minister's visit. AP summarises this in their article:
India open for $80 billion in nuclear business
Even as a landmark U.S.-India nuclear accord hangs in limbo in the U.S. Congress, the global gates of nuclear trade with India are now open.

Whether or not U.S. companies get the go-ahead to sell nuclear fuel and technology to India, the country's nuclear officials are confident they will get their uranium.

Singh was to go on to France, where he was expected to ink India's nuclear agreement with that country.

American companies worry they could be shut out of the Indian market. General Electric Co. helped build India's first nuclear reactor in the 1960s, and GE would love to rekindle that relationship.

"It's a $30 billion-plus market in India. There's a huge opportunity for a company like GE," said Kishore Jayaraman, regional head of GE operations in India, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh. "We have been pushing for it."

Today, India gets just 3 percent of its energy_about 4,100 megawatts_ from nuclear power. By 2032 the government plans to quadruple total generating capacity, to 700 gigawatts, with nuclear accounting for 63,000 megawatts.

That adds up to about 40 new nuclear reactors, worth some $80 billion, according to Jain.


So, it's upto the US to figure out their priorities. Getting their companies in this business wlil help them add hundreds of thousands of domestic jobs, something that would help in their current economic situation.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:51 am

I think India is trying to get the US deal on priority for the Assistance at the NSG.But if there are domestic delays there,then probably preference might be given to the French deal & with other partners.
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MEL
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BarfBag
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:29 am

Well Mel, what do you know. It's Sunday afternoon and I find that the US House of Representatives has approved the deal on Saturday evening their time  Smile
House approves nuclear pact with India

Quote:
The House voted overwhelmingly Saturday to approve a landmark pact that would allow the U.S. to provide nuclear materials to India.

The deal still faces obstacles in the Senate, making prospects uncertain for passage before President Bush leaves office in January. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., a supporter, promised a Senate vote on the accord in the week ahead, possibly Monday.

Hoping to raise pressure on that chamber, Bush quickly issued a statement praising House passage and prodding the Senate to do the same thing.

"I urge the Senate to quickly take up and pass this important piece of legislation before their October adjournment," the president said. "Signing this bipartisan bill will help strengthen our partnership with India."

India's Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, addressing the Indian community in New York where he was attending the U.N. General Assembly, said "the journey President Bush and I embarked upon is nearing fruition."

"India will be liberated from the constraints of technology denial of 34 years. It will add an important strategic pillar to our bilateral partnership. We will widen our clean energy options," he said Saturday.

The House approved the measure 298-117 without debate in an unusual Saturday session, held as lawmakers try dealing with the financial crisis and wrapping up the year's business.

The accord reverses three decades of U.S. policy by shipping atomic fuel to India in return for international inspections of India's civilian reactors. Military reactors would not be subject to examination.

 
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HAWK21M
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:04 am



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 30):
It's Sunday afternoon and I find that the US House of Representatives has approved the deal on Saturday evening their time

Thats great news barf.

Time to get started on the work ahead......
Is Manmohan singh still in the USA.
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MEL
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HAWK21M
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:54 am

The Inking will be done on Saturday.


Finally.

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BarfBag
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:31 pm

Good for the US. General Electric and Westinghouse are both among chosen bidders for the ~$30 billion first round of nuclear reactor contracts, though Westinghouse is now owned by Toshiba of Japan. I hope GE wins a few contracts - they earned it.

Manmohan Singh is also heading to Japan, where among others, he has been offered a rare meeting with the Japanese Emperor, Akihito. Current Japanese PM Taro Aso is in favour of greater ties with India, and the nuclear field is one area they have a lot of expertise in, as with France.

Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov is due in New Delhi Oct 20 (not Sept 20 as I'd thought), and will sign the Indo-Russian 123 civil nuclear trade and safeguards agreement then.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:49 am

Its interesting to see how business keeness is catering to a huge market  Smile
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MEL
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:24 pm

Bush signs US-India nuclear bill

US President George W Bush has signed into law a nuclear deal with India, which ends a three-decade ban on US nuclear trade with Delhi.

The landmark agreement was approved by the US Congress nearly a week ago.

The deal will give India access to US civilian nuclear technology and fuel in return for inspections of its civilian, but not military, nuclear facilities.

India says the accord is vital to meet its rising energy needs. Critics say it creates a dangerous precedent.

They say it effectively allows India to expand its nuclear power industry without requiring it to sign the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) as other nations must.

The US restricted nuclear co-operation with India after it tested a nuclear weapon in 1974.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7660310.stm
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:54 am

Great news as scheduled.
Now The Indian external affairs minister would visit the USA for the signing of the deal.
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MEL
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HAWK21M
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:25 pm

Finally the Deal has been signed.
A concluded agreement.
Now let both countries benifit from this cooperation.
 bigthumbsup 
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MEL
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DIJKKIJK
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:13 pm

It is good thing that a fast developing energy hungry country like India gets access to safe nuclear technology to meet its needs. But I have heard that there is considerable opposition to nuclear power in India itself, mainly by the Arundathi Roy types. How is this going to be dealt with?

Can anyone from India comment?
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BarfBag
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:38 am



Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 38):
But I have heard that there is considerable opposition to nuclear power in India itself, mainly by the Arundathi Roy types.

They are just a bunch of career protesters and sock puppets funded by western entities. With the western companies now free to walk in and sign lucrative nuclear deals with India, those kind of losers will find it increasingly hard to gain any traction. Money silences a lot of empty vessels, particularly in the current economic circumstances, where an economic growth engine like India is beneficial for western companies to do business with.
 
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RE: India-US Civil Nuclear Deal On Course

Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:59 am

Finally its down to Economics  Smile
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