Mike89406
Topic Author
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Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:26 am

So I'm ready for new tires on my 2002 Accord but I'm unsure which brand is better for my car. I plan to use some sort if touring tire as I take road trips but I want reliability. Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated.

Regards, Mike
 
andz
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:37 am

Bridgestone.

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After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
N1120A
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:40 am

Pirelli
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Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:41 am

Michelin's are the only tires I've drive on my 2003 Accord and I think they're great. For the majority of the time I've owned the car, they have been Michelin's Energy tires, but when I had 2 changed-out a few months ago they had stopped carrying the Energy and it was replaced by the Primacy. I have absolutely nothing to complain about.
 
Molykote
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:48 am

I think Michelin makes a tire that (as a physical product) doesn't leave much to complain about. I am a bit of a tire snob and am willing to pay for good tires but I do think that the pricing on many Michelin tires is simply too high when considering what the competition offers.

I don't have a large amount of experience with Goodyear offerings but their product reputation seems to be all over the map depending on price and tire type.

I put a set of Yokohamas on an old Lexus that I sold within the last year (it was my 3rd set of tires on that car) and as a touring tire I thought they were quiet, comfortable, and a great value. I purchased a set of 4 during a "4 for the price of 3" promotion that tire shops seem to love. The total cost installed was about $310 partially due to the inexpensive 205/65-15 geometry of the ES300 tires.

For all that I paid, this Yokohama was a fine product. I had a set of higher performance (and more expensive) tires on the Lexus before but they didn't suit the cushy nature of the car. This softly sprung sedan was much more enjoyable with the Yokohamas of adequate performance and exemplary comfort.

Check www.tirerack.com for user reviews and a "tire selection guide".
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....hama&tireModel=AVID+Touring#Survey

I wouldn't put a cushy tire like this on any of my other cars but it suited the Lexus (and perhaps your needs as well).

Before you buy, what tire size and speed rating do you need? Most shops won't install a tire with a speed rating lower than your car's original equipment.
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
 
N1120A
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:51 am



Quoting Molykote (Reply 4):
I do think that the pricing on many Michelin tires is simply too high when considering what the competition offers.

I tend to agree with you.

I have also found that some of the less expensive brands make a very good tire for the money. Falken comes to mind.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
andz
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:52 am

I can see that this is going to be a useful thread!

I say Bridgestone based on my experience with my last few cars. I had a bad time with the standard fit Continentals on my 2001 BMW 320i. After about 30,000km they began making the most horrible noises and after a long fight with Conti I threw them off and fitted Bridgestones which proved to be a quiet, durable and good handling tyre. The next one came standard with them and when I sold the car with almost 50,000km on the standard tyres were still usable.

My current car has Bridgestone 225/45 R17 RFT and apart from the cost to replace them I am happy with them. Car has 44,000km on and the fronts are still good for another 5,000 or so. I replaced the rears at about 38,000 but I had done quite a bit of towing which does put wear on the rears.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
N1120A
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:00 am



Quoting Andz (Reply 6):
I had a bad time with the standard fit Continentals on my 2001 BMW 320i.

I still don't get why BMW did the Conti thing.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
andz
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:08 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
I still don't get why BMW did the Conti thing.

I still see BMWs with them on and the few drivers I have spoken to have had similar experiences to me. When I ordered my next one I told the salesperson that if the car came with Contis I would refuse to take it.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
Molykote
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:16 am



Quoting Andz (Reply 6):
I say Bridgestone based on my experience with my last few cars.

I used the Potenza S-03s on my MX-5 and love them. Although they were expensive in general, I bought them for $63 each on closeout. My only regret was not buying another set. I wore them out at an embarassing rate.

Quoting Andz (Reply 6):
I had a bad time with the standard fit Continentals on my 2001 BMW 320i. After about 30,000km they began making the most horrible noises and after a long fight with Conti I threw them off and fitted Bridgestones which proved to be a quiet, durable and good handling tyre. The next one came standard with them and when I sold the car with almost 50,000km on the standard tyres were still usable.

A number of E46 drivers really dislike the OE Continentals.

Every Bridgestone that I've driven on a BMW has felt great (although I haven't had every BMW that I've driven at the limit). The Potenza RE730s were a great value but have been discontinued. Urban legends circulate that the Fuzion ZRi is the same basic product but I didn't think the Fuzion felt as nice as I remembered the RE730s.

I'm going to rebuild the suspension on my 2002 330Ci this fall (56k miles on it). After doing so I intend to remove the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires to try a set of Sumitomo HTR Z IIIs. Tire Rack* picked these HTR Z IIIs as the winner of their last high performance summer tire test. As a bonus, they cost less than $100 each for my 225/45-17 and 245/40-17 sizes. I'm happy to pay what I need to for good tires but I'm happier to get a great product for half of the "normal" price!

*--> Tire Rack uses 3 series BMWs as test vehicles  Smile
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
 
acho
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:25 am

I used to have Michelin 16" in my Renault Megane, and they were a pain in the ass, I got 3 flat tires in one year; one was my fault because I hit the sidewalk because a bus was coming head on fast invading my side of the road. The other two times were just random, one of the times I went to my car in the morning and it had a flat tire, and I know it wasn't vandalism.
I didn't know how to change tires until I had those tires.

On the other hand the Michelins I have on the Audi A3 I currently drive have been great no problems at all. Overall I would have to say the Michelins are better as they have better grip, this is especially important to me because of how slippery the roads are where I live.
 
wilco737
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:45 am



Quoting Mike89406 (Thread starter):

Are these the only 2 options you are considering? Check the internet for test drives with different tires. There are some surprising results. Check what you need the tires for and what is most important to you and then decide which brand you take.

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
Mike89406
Topic Author
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:01 am



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 3):
Michelin's are the only tires I've drive on my 2003 Accord and I think they're great. For the majority of the time I've owned the car, they have been Michelin's Energy tires, but when I had 2 changed-out a few months ago they had stopped carrying the Energy and it was replaced by the Primacy. I have absolutely nothing to complain about.

My accord came with Energy tores when I bought it brand new they lasted for a long time IIRC.

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 11):
Quoting Mike89406 (Thread starter):


Are these the only 2 options you are considering? Check the internet for test drives with different tires. There are some surprising results. Check what you need the tires for and what is most important to you and then decide which brand you take.

WILCO737 (MD11F)

Not necessarily but I dont know much about the others (BF Goodrich, Bridgestone, etc...)
I had Toyas on my old Nissan they weren't bad, and I had a couple of sets of less known brands on my Accord. Truth be told I just want some decent tires that I don't have to pay exhorbant amounts of money on. However reliability seems to be important out here in Western Nevada as the some of the roads seem to be a little rougher and tear up tires faster. Although I will pay a little more if I know a certain tire is actually better off for longevity.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
Quoting Molykote (Reply 4):
I do think that the pricing on many Michelin tires is simply too high when considering what the competition offers.

I tend to agree with you.

I have also found that some of the less expensive brands make a very good tire for the money. Falken comes to mind.

I agree as well. The Michelin's haven't been a bad tire just that they're a little pricey.

Regards, Mike
 
wilco737
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:02 am



Quoting Mike89406 (Reply 12):
Not necessarily but I dont know much about the others (BF Goodrich, Bridgestone, etc...)

The internet contains a lot of website where you can read about tests about tires. More or less specific for your car and needs. Check it out.
I don't go with the brand, I check for my car and needs. next year I need new tires for the summer and I will check then for good tires - no matter what brand.

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
Molykote
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:09 am

Quoting Mike89406 (Reply 12):
However reliability seems to be important out here in Western Nevada as the some of the roads seem to be a little rougher and tear up tires faster. Although I will pay a little more if I know a certain tire is actually better off for longevity.

What weather will these tires have to accommodate?


Here is a table of survey results for all "grand touring all season" tires available at tirerack.com:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...esults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=GTAS

Other tire classes are available to suit your needs.

The affordable General Altimax HP tires top this chart of consumer survey data. Given the wide selection of fairly priced competitors, I'm not sure if I'd jump on a product like the Altimax HP just yet. They are probably a good tire but my own experience and bias would cause me to stick something that I see as more proven (rightly or wrongly).

[Edited 2008-09-07 00:25:13]

[Edited 2008-09-07 00:28:13]
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
 
Mike89406
Topic Author
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:23 am



Quoting Molykote (Reply 14):
What weather will these tires have to accommodate?

I live near Reno high elevation desert but it gets a little chilly around November-December, but I am moving to San Diego in December for at least 3 yrs.

Mike
 
Beta
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:40 am

Michelin tires are one of the brand name, premium tires. Quality is excellent, but you pay premium dollars relative to others. Bridgestone is a good, middle of the road, tire. Above ave. quality, reasonable price. You should also check out BF Goodrich tires. I had them on my pickup. I don't know whether it's same premium brand like Michelin, but its quality is excellent, long lasting. I had some Goodyear in the past. Poor quality, wear out fast. Price is probably the cheapest of all the above brands. Pirelli: you pay top dollars and may not get the same value as Michelin, and its tires tend to be performance oriented. I could be wrong about that though. Those are tires that I have used in the past.
 
TSS
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:48 am

I've been selling, installing, and servicing tires for over 14 years, and Beta's assessments are spot-on with my experience:

Quoting Beta (Reply 16):
Michelin tires are one of the brand name, premium tires. Quality is excellent, but you pay premium dollars relative to others.

The question I ask people is not "Are Michelin tires worth putting on your car?", but "Is your car worth investing in a set of Michelin tires?". Yes, they really are that good, but they're priced accordingly.

Quoting Beta (Reply 16):
Bridgestone is a good, middle of the road, tire. Above ave. quality, reasonable price.

 checkmark 

Quoting Beta (Reply 16):
You should also check out BF Goodrich tires. I had them on my pickup. I don't know whether it's same premium brand like Michelin, but its quality is excellent, long lasting.

Michelin bought BF Goodrich in 1989, and has since dramatically improved BFG's quality and has positioned BFG as a second-tier brand specializing in more youth-oriented high-performance lines for both sporty cars and pickup trucks/SUVs.

Quoting Beta (Reply 16):
I had some Goodyear in the past. Poor quality, wear out fast.

Yep, those are far and away the two most common complaints I hear about Goodyear tires. Oddly enough, Goodyear's less-expensive brand, Dunlop, seems to be the superior brand as far as quality control and longevity.

Quoting Beta (Reply 16):
Pirelli: you pay top dollars and may not get the same value as Michelin, and its tires tend to be performance oriented.

Too true! I'd describe Pirellis as being like the little girl who had a little curl right in the middle of her forehead: When they are good they are very, very good, but when they are bad they are HORRID!
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
Beta
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:59 pm



Quoting TSS (Reply 17):
Michelin bought BF Goodrich in 1989, and has since dramatically improved BFG's quality and has positioned BFG as a second-tier brand specializing in more youth-oriented high-performance lines for both sporty cars and pickup trucks/SUVs.

I did not know that. Learn something new every day. Thank you. I bought them, and has been quite happy with them. Now I know why.
 
N1120A
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:04 am



Quoting Beta (Reply 16):
Pirelli: you pay top dollars and may not get the same value as Michelin, and its tires tend to be performance oriented. I could be wrong about that though.

Two things about Pirelli. One, they are not cheap but are less expensive than Michelin. Two, the P-Zero Rosso is one of the longest lived performance tires out there.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
sv7887
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:24 am



Quoting TSS (Reply 17):

Quoting Beta (Reply 16):
Michelin tires are one of the brand name, premium tires. Quality is excellent, but you pay premium dollars relative to others.

The question I ask people is not "Are Michelin tires worth putting on your car?", but "Is your car worth investing in a set of Michelin tires?". Yes, they really are that good, but they're priced accordingly.

I concur, I have had a great experience with the Michelins on my E Class. It's 4 Matic, but the tires are all season, but they are dynamite.

My dad's S Class has these crappy Continentials on them. Their winter traction stinks, I don't know why Benz puts crappy tires on expensive cars.

I've also had good luck with the Bridgestone Turanza LS-H tires on my old LS400. Great ride, good winter traction, excellent high speed performance.
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:49 am

I have always used Michelins on all my cars for the past 20 years or so. But my Mazda Tribute came with Continentals. I think those are on par with the Michelins I have used over the years. I have 80K miles on the Contientals and have never had a flat or a tire replacement.
I don't know why, but I never seem to get flat tires. the Continentals handle very well, especially on wet roads.

Worst Tires I have ever owned:

Dunlop (the sidewalls wobble at any speed over 50mph)
Bridgestone (like driving on roller skates in wet weather)
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AirframeAS
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:33 pm



Quoting TSS (Reply 17):

What do you think of Goodyear's Viva 2 tires? They are only sold at Wal*Mart. I currently have a set of those on my car and so far I have had no problems with them since having them installed in October of last year. Considering that I am living in Colorado, they work great in the snow.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
DukeofDashes
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:08 am



Quoting Beta (Reply 16):
Bridgestone is a good, middle of the road, tire. Above ave. quality, reasonable price.

I'm very happy with the Dueler H/Ts that I put on my truck. Twas about $700 for the set of 4, but well worth what I spent on them. Overall, I would say Bridgestones are the best value on the market.
"I always keep a bottle of whiskey handy in case I see a snake, which I also keep handy!" - W.C. Fields
 
Molykote
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:11 am



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 22):
What do you think of Goodyear's Viva 2 tires? They are only sold at Wal*Mart. I currently have a set of those on my car and so far I have had no problems with them since having them installed in October of last year. Considering that I am living in Colorado, they work great in the snow.

The Wal-Mart "exclusive" Goodyears are designed to be produced cheaply but might work fine for certain uses.

A friend of mine tells me that they are of significantly lower production quality and that product failure and vibration issues are more common with these models.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 20):
My dad's S Class has these crappy Continentials on them. Their winter traction stinks, I don't know why Benz puts crappy tires on expensive cars.

Although Continentals certainly aren't the only tire used by Porsche/BMW/M-B, I can't rationalize the fairly common use of these so-so tires by these manufacturers. The only guess I can make is that the German ties between these companies may have had something to do with it but it seems like a weak argument.

Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 21):
Dunlop (the sidewalls wobble at any speed over 50mph)
Bridgestone (like driving on roller skates in wet weather)

What models?

Dunlop and Bridgestone make tires ranging from "good" to "excellent". Without more specific data, generalizations like this are often useless to other people. Like other products, the design requirements of tires are affected by many factors such as product mission and price point.

I think those statements are far to generalized to be useful.
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:28 am

Goodyear.
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Blue
All of the opinions stated above are mine and do not represent Airliners.net or my employer unless otherwise stated.
 
swissy
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:49 pm

Nokian all the way..... Big grin


Cheerios,
 
Stretch 8
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:26 pm

My 5 series BMW came with Dunlop SP2000s as OE. When they wore down, I tried the Michelin Pilot/Sport AS. Very nice tire, but at nearly $200 per, not worth the money.

I am now on my second set of Toyo Proxes 4, all-season HP tires. Superior product, half the price of Michelin.
Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
 
NIKV69
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:37 pm

All three, Bridgestone, GYR and Michelin are top rubber. I had to drop $1K on rubber for my car and I agonized over which to buy, Gyr F1s, Michelin Pilots or Bridgestone and after days of research and questions I went with the F1s. I have always been a Michelin man but the $60 more per tire didn't justify the performance difference in which the F1s kicked ass. I got further proof when I got caught in the ice storm in OKC. Tires did great. Research it and do the homework.
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A342
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:57 pm



Quoting Molykote (Reply 24):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 20):
My dad's S Class has these crappy Continentials on them. Their winter traction stinks, I don't know why Benz puts crappy tires on expensive cars.

Although Continentals certainly aren't the only tire used by Porsche/BMW/M-B, I can't rationalize the fairly common use of these so-so tires by these manufacturers. The only guess I can make is that the German ties between these companies may have had something to do with it but it seems like a weak argument.

Germans prefer a proper set of tires for both winter and summer instead of the jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none rubber that Americans usually use. If you can afford an expensive car, forking out some money for a set of winter tires shouldn't be problem.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
Arrow
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:12 pm



Quoting Andz (Reply 6):
I had a bad time with the standard fit Continentals on my 2001 BMW 320i. After about 30,000km they began making the most horrible noises and after a long fight with Conti I threw them off and fitted Bridgestones which proved to be a quiet, durable and good handling tyre.

I had a similar experience with the Continentals on my VW van, After about 25K, I was getting a lot of vibration; an inspection showed three of the four tires has tread separation -- one of them was very close to failing. I got nowhere with Continental, and I will never buy another Continental tire, nor will I ever buy a vehicle that has them on as original equipment.

I've been running the van on Michelins for summer, and Yokohama snow tires in the winter -- and I'm happy with both sets. They perform well, and they last.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
JJJ
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:08 pm

I've generally been a Bridgestone or Pirelli man.

Last time they were out of stock of either so I tried some BF Goodrich which they had on offer and so far they've been OK too (that was on the Bravo).

In my experience, pirellis last longer in good condition, but squeal like crazy on the first kms. After that the ride is perfect. Bridgestones wear quicker but the grip is awesome (I have those on the mx-5).

We'll see how the goodriches age (they're short of 1.000 kms. now).
 
Delta767300ER
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:09 pm

Goodyear makes one of the most pathetic tires on the planet. They are a cheap tire that uses up very quickly. I've had 3 sets of Goodyears on my Camaro and never again. Stick with Michelin, They are a much better quality tire.

-Delta767300ER
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:09 pm

Good thread. Michelin all the wayyy for me. Ever thought about purchasing them from Sears? They have a 75K mile warranty for all tires.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
Molykote
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:30 pm



Quoting A342 (Reply 29):
Quoting Molykote (Reply 24):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 20):
My dad's S Class has these crappy Continentials on them. Their winter traction stinks, I don't know why Benz puts crappy tires on expensive cars.

Although Continentals certainly aren't the only tire used by Porsche/BMW/M-B, I can't rationalize the fairly common use of these so-so tires by these manufacturers. The only guess I can make is that the German ties between these companies may have had something to do with it but it seems like a weak argument.



Quoting A342 (Reply 29):
Germans prefer a proper set of tires for both winter and summer instead of the jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none rubber that Americans usually use. If you can afford an expensive car, forking out some money for a set of winter tires shouldn't be problem.

I agree with your comments and use separate winter/summer tires myself.

It seems that Sv7887 commented on the winter traction capabilities of his father's S-class using Continental tires of unspecified type. My comments referred to the generally unremarkable performance of Continental tires (not confined to all-season products).

By the way, I thought that winter tires were required (rather than preferred) in Germany? If winter tires are not required, the preference you speak of must be very strong. I don't remember seeing a car without winter tires in Munich earlier this year (March 2008).

It's an odd habit but any time an interesting car is beside me I feel compelled to check out what tires are on it. It's amazing how many nice/expensive cars I see with crappy tires.
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
 
sv7887
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:39 pm



Quoting Molykote (Reply 34):

It seems that Sv7887 commented on the winter traction capabilities of his father's S-class using Continental tires of unspecified type. My comments referred to the generally unremarkable performance of Continental tires (not confined to all-season products).

It's a 4 Matic (AWD) as is my E Class. But the E has Michelins which are dynamite in the snow. The Continentals aren't anything special, in good weather or bad.

I think other S Classes do have Michelins on them. But I see your point, you can't beat Snow Tires for optimal winter traction.

I've used Bridgestone Blizzak tires in the winter on my RWD vehicles with awesome results.

What kind of snow tires do you use in Germany? All Wheel Drive has become popular here because people don't want to change tires in the winter, so it's almost become like a fashion to have AWD.
 
Molykote
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:56 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 35):
I think other S Classes do have Michelins on them. But I see your point, you can't beat Snow Tires for optimal winter traction.

I've used Bridgestone Blizzak tires in the winter on my RWD vehicles with awesome results.

What kind of snow tires do you use in Germany? All Wheel Drive has become popular here because people don't want to change tires in the winter, so it's almost become like a fashion to have AWD.

You might want to direct that question to A342?

I use Bridgestone Blizzak REVO1 winter tires myself.
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
 
A342
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:36 pm



Quoting Molykote (Reply 34):
My comments referred to the generally unremarkable performance of Continental tires (not confined to all-season products).

In Germany, they are seen as high-end tires, hence their use on expensive cars. Maybe the perception elsewhere is different.

Quoting Molykote (Reply 34):
By the way, I thought that winter tires were required (rather than preferred) in Germany? If winter tires are not required, the preference you speak of must be very strong. I don't remember seeing a car without winter tires in Munich earlier this year (March 2008).

The German law says that you must always have "the proper tires for the present situation". So it's a bit ambiguous. When the road is dry and you get along fine with summer tires, the police won't object. But as soon as there's snow/ice on the road or you're even involved in an accident, you'll have a problem.  Smile

But yes, here in Bavaria (I live close to Munich), almost everyone uses winter tires.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 35):
What kind of snow tires do you use in Germany? All Wheel Drive has become popular here because people don't want to change tires in the winter, so it's almost become like a fashion to have AWD.

Well, just about every manufacturer here offers snow/winter tires. Our car has Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3 winter tires. Traction and braking are good, but I'm not too impressed with directional stability (or maybe I was just tired?  Wink) And while AWD might get you enough traction with summer tires in the winter, it doesn't help the slightest bit with braking and handling. That's why almost every AWD vehicle here also has winter tires.


BTW, interesting to note that in the USA they're called snow tires, whereas here, it's winter tires. They not only offer better performance in snow, but anytime the temperature is below or even slightly above freezing point.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
Molykote
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:14 pm

Quoting A342 (Reply 37):
BTW, interesting to note that in the USA they're called snow tires, whereas here, it's winter tires. They not only offer better performance in snow, but anytime the temperature is below or even slightly above freezing point

I think this comes about because "snow(& ice) tires" are the most commonly used products within the "winter" tire category.

Given my choice of vehicles (330Ci and MX-5*), my primary concern in the winter is basic mobility, something I absolutely won't get with summer tires on either car. By selecting tires from the "Studless Ice and Snow" category below I am able to maximize traction performance on secondary roads with a moderate handling performance loss at high(er) speeds on the highway. The "Performance Winter" tires below give up some ultimate traction capability in order to provide more sound handling at elevated speeds. Based on your reply, it sounds like you are already aware of this.

The handling deficiencies of non-performance oriented "snow" tires are readily apparent at even moderate highway speeds. However, the traction provided by "snow" tires is noticeably better than "performance winter" tires in most cases (even on the highway).

We will have clear winter days in which driving at "summer" highway speeds is perfectly acceptable and safe. However, with our speed limits, the gains to be had in owning a stiffer tire at elevated speeds (as would be associated with a perfromance oriented tire carcass) do not outweigh the superior grip in almost all cases provided by a "snow" tire.

* --> with summer tires only, no ABS, and no traction control of any kind this car is parked for the winter


It's not like Tire Rack is the ultimate authority on tires (although I might suggest otherwise with my many references in this thread) but they offer a great deal of valuable information.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/types/snows.jsp

Performance Winter
You want enhanced dry road handling from your winter tires and are willing to trade some snow and ice traction to get it.
Meeting severe snow service requirements and branded with the "mountain/snowflake" symbol, these low profile, H- or V-speed rated tires are designed to suit winter driving on European highways. They are available in many of the low profile sizes used as Original Equipment on sporty imported and domestic cars. Due to their unique designs these tires must be installed in sets of four.

Studless Ice and Snow
You want to maximize snow and ice traction from your winter tires without the inconvenience of using winter tire studs.
Meeting severe snow service requirements and branded with the "mountain/snowflake" symbol, these Q-speed rated tires feature the latest in tread compound technology to provide winter traction without the inconvenience of tire studs. They trade a little handling for excellent ice and snow traction. Due to their unique tread compounds these tires must be installed in sets of four.

Studdable Winter
You want the traditional security of winter tire studs for enhanced traction on ice.
Meeting severe snow service requirements and branded with the "mountain/snowflake" symbol, these non-, Q-, S-, or T-speed rated tires feature traditional snow tire tread compounds and studdable tread designs for good snow and ice traction. Due to their unique designs these tires must be used in sets of four. Use of studded tires is often prohibited or restricted. Check with local authorities to confirm legality.

It would seem that "Performance Winter" tires are more common in Germany while "Studless Ice and Snow" tires are more common in the US.

I had originally intended to select winter tires even further suited to secondary roads. My factory tires are 225/45-17 and 245/40-17. I hoped to downsize to 205/55-16 winter tires but discovered I need a 17" wheel to fit over my brakes  Cool

[Edited 2008-09-11 11:14:50]
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A342
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:47 pm



Quoting Molykote (Reply 38):
It would seem that "Performance Winter" tires are more common in Germany while "Studless Ice and Snow" tires are more common in the US.

Indeed. The tire market in Germany doesn't really distinguish between these types as only the former are commonly used. The latter are also available, mostly from Scandinavian manufacturers like Nokian. They're more common in Austria or Switzerland, but even there they are usually not used on high performance cars.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:29 pm



Quoting Molykote (Reply 24):
The Wal-Mart "exclusive" Goodyears are designed to be produced cheaply but might work fine for certain uses.

A friend of mine tells me that they are of significantly lower production quality and that product failure and vibration issues are more common with these models.

Why would Goodyear want to slap their name on a tire that they manufactured exclusively for Wal*Mart if the tires themselves are a piece of crap? Did Goodyear forget about liability or something since they made the tire?
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Molykote
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:56 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 40):
Quoting Molykote (Reply 24):
The Wal-Mart "exclusive" Goodyears are designed to be produced cheaply but might work fine for certain uses.

A friend of mine tells me that they are of significantly lower production quality and that product failure and vibration issues are more common with these models.



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 40):
Why would Goodyear want to slap their name on a tire that they manufactured exclusively for Wal*Mart if the tires themselves are a piece of crap? Did Goodyear forget about liability or something since they made the tire?

I'm not saying that the tires are necessarily unsafe. "Failure" doesn't have to mean sudden and catastrophic.
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yowza
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:03 pm

I think I'm using Toyos right now. Not really that sure, not much of a car guy.

YOWza
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:41 pm



Quoting Molykote (Reply 41):
I'm not saying that the tires are necessarily unsafe. "Failure" doesn't have to mean sudden and catastrophic.

That makes more sense. Thanks for the info.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:47 am



Quoting Andz (Reply 6):

I say Bridgestone based on my experience with my last few cars. I had a bad time with the standard fit Continentals on my 2001 BMW 320i. After about 30,000km they began making the most horrible noises and after a long fight with Conti I threw them off and fitted Bridgestones which proved to be a quiet, durable and good handling tyre. The next one came standard with them and when I sold the car with almost 50,000km on the standard tyres were still usable.

My current car has Bridgestone 225/45 R17 RFT and apart from the cost to replace them I am happy with them. Car has 44,000km on and the fronts are still good for another 5,000 or so.

Which Bridgestone model?

I have Bridgestone Portenzas on my 330i and they were great when new but wear faster than I'd like. I've read on-line that people say 15,000 to 20,000 is all you can expect, and I'm agreeing with that.

All tires in the same class are expensive, and I don't mind paying for a premium tire, but it's a killer to replace them so often, given I drive 15,000 a year.

I've been told the Michelins have better tread life in the premium class than does Bridgestone. Comments?
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LOT767-300ER
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:28 am

This thread is really ridiculous for really only one reason.

All this speculation we are having which tire is best and which is not is just that, almost pure speculation because we all drive different models of cars, trucks and SUVs.

What may be true for example for Goodyear Wrangler SR-As on an SUV (which suck btw) wouldnt hold true for Goodyear F1s. And what about those cheap Dueler H/Ts, they dont come within an inch of the Revos or Yoko Geolandars which plough through snow like a snowcat.
 
777ER
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:11 am

I use FireStone Firehawks on my car. They are one of the most expensive ($160) car tyres here, and are designed for New Zealand's conditions
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:30 am



Quoting 777ER (Reply 46):
I use FireStone Firehawks on my car. They are one of the most expensive ($160) car tyres here, and are designed for New Zealand's conditions

Which Firestone Firehawks are those??????
 
andz
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:41 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 44):
Which Bridgestone model?

Potenza RE 050A



I saw them on a website for $227 each in the US, they are $375 here  Wow!

[Edited 2008-09-13 01:52:30]
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Michelin Or Goodyear?

Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:51 am



Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 45):
This thread is really ridiculous for really only one reason.

All this speculation we are having which tire is best and which is not is just that, almost pure speculation because we all drive different models of cars, trucks and SUVs.

I'm surprised it took 45 replys for someone to point out the obvious.
Refer to ADAC test or whatever equivalent you have in your part of the world and it will be certainly less waste of a time than browsing this useless thread.

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