redflyer
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MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:44 pm

Looks like MSNBC couldn't stand the heat it was taking for Olbermann running his sewer on the Republicans.

Quote:
NEW YORK - MSNBC is replacing Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews as co-anchors of political night coverage with David Gregory, and will use the two newsmen as commentators.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/tv_nbc_ol...;_ylt=AlzIt4ZooYSU.Ubr9Nf6tSOs0NUE
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LAXintl
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:00 pm

Olbermann should go back to reporting sports at local stations. Then at least his ad-lib commentary would find a more usefull place then his clear bias when it comes to politics.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:09 pm

I'll fully disclose that I consider myself center/right on most issues, but how any rational individual could tolerate Olbermann is beyond me.
 
DukeofDashes
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:23 pm



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 2):
I'll fully disclose that I consider myself center/right on most issues, but how any rational individual could tolerate Olbermann is beyond me.

I think the same could be said for Bill O'Rielly. If you agree with their viewpoints, you will like them. If you think they are extremist windbags, then you probably won't like them.

I for one like that that people such as Olbermann and Maher exist to offset O'Rielly and Hannity. Maintains some level of balance at least.
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rwsea
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:23 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Olbermann should go back to reporting sports at local stations. Then at least his ad-lib commentary would find a more usefull place then his clear bias when it comes to politics.

So maybe O'Reilly should go back to Tabloid TV, and Hannity should stay on the radio?

If we're going to have one network that is thoroughly biased (FOX), I don't see what's wrong with a handful of anchors on another network being biased.
 
LAXintl
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:38 pm



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 4):
If we're going to have one network that is thoroughly biased (FOX), I don't see what's wrong with a handful of anchors on another network being biased.

Well to start with the near entire US media enterprise is left leaning, so I would not get too worked up about lone FOX and its slant. If you dont like, no need to watch it.

However in this case, NBC very much wants to maintain to the degree possible unbiased and professional reporting. Olbermann going back a long time has been a loose canon with his comments and this was simply not something the network wanted to project.

Now Olbermann might have a place, but its more show specific and not the anchor spot on national news.
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PacNWjet
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:53 pm



Quoting DukeofDashes (Reply 3):
I think the same could be said for Bill O'Rielly. If you agree with their viewpoints, you will like them. If you think they are extremist windbags, then you probably won't like them.

Keith Olbermann is cast by MSNBC (and by himself) as sort of the liberal counterpart (or counterpoint) to Bill O'Reilly and to some extent that is true. But as someone who has watched both and who agrees sometimes with O'Reilly and sometimes with Olbermann I see three basic differences between the two.

First, O'Reilly seems to do a lot more background research on a topic than Olbermann. O'Reilly occasionally gets things wrong, but at least he has made an effort to get up to speed on an issue and collect details about it. Olbermann comes across more as operating on sort of a generalized familiarity with a topic but he seems to lack the skills or interest in a topic that investigative journalists have.

Second, while O'Reilly may have strong opinions about an issue, he at least appears to understand where the other side is coming from. To my mind, Olbermann comes across as dismissive and intolerant of those with whom he disagrees, at least more so than O'Reilly.

Third, O'Reilly strikes me as more compassionate and more humane in his attitudes towards those with whom he disagrees. My impression of Olbermann is that he really dislikes people who disagree with him.

So, I don't think the difference is between people who agree with O'Reilly and people who agree with Olbermann. Most people have some level of agreement and disagreement with both depending on the issue. To my mind, Olbermann is simply harder to watch since he comes across as just so simplistic and mean.
 
Alias1024
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:06 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
Well to start with the near entire US media enterprise is left leaning

prove it
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daedaeg
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:25 pm

NBC political coverage went down hill after Tim Russert's passing. Olbermann is a commentator and should be view as such. He should not have been made out to be an unbias news anchor during the conventions. I just don't know what the folks at NBC/MSNBC were thinking.
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D L X
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:25 pm



Quoting DukeofDashes (Reply 3):
I think the same could be said for Bill O'Rielly.

To be fair though, was O'Reilly anchoring the conventions?

Having a person so liberally biased providing play-by-play (for lack of a better word) was a bad idea from the start. From what I'm reading, Olbermann was unsure it was a good idea because he too wanted to be liberal, and did not want to have to pretend to be unbiased. Also, it appears that Olbermann himself was the one to suggest that he shouldn't anchor anymore because he could not bring himself to treat the Republicans equally.
 
flymia
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:30 pm

I am a very moderate republican and I just hated this guy. I never watch MSNBC because of him and only him. Its about time they got him off the network a little bit. I like to stay with CNN with political news.
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KingAir200
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:45 pm



Quoting DukeofDashes (Reply 3):
I for one like that that people such as Olbermann and Maher exist to offset O'Rielly and Hannity.

At least Bill Maher is entertaining. Keith Olbermann? Not so much...
 
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:46 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Olbermann should go back to reporting sports at local stations. Then at least his ad-lib commentary would find a more usefull place then his clear bias when it comes to politics.

Local sports reporting is too good for this hack. You know it's bad when I couldn't even stand watching the NBC Football Night in America show last night because he repulsed me so much. And Dan Patrick too, but that's a different story. Sidenote: that whole NBC crew stinks and the show is lousy.

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 11):
At least Bill Maher is entertaining.

I used to like Maher's shtick, but he's just a smarmy weasel. And his comments about Sarah last week were just repulsive and disgusting.
 
LAXintl
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:49 pm



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 7):
prove it

Last time I checked this was not a court of law.


However when you have the owners and leadership of large news organizations like the NY Times, Washington Post, Tribune Group, CNN being some of America's largest Democratic donors then it appears there is an agenda or bias. Look at Ted Turner for example who has open political advocacy including funding support of abortion-rights lobby and various green groups.

For more academic proof take a look at UCLA(a liberal school) study from 2005 which found a national media bias and that most major media outlets tilt to the left. Of the 20 major media outlets studied, 18 scored left of center.
Synopsis can be read at:
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla...-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx

Then add in the fact that reporters by a large majority vote democratic. No matter how unbiased one wants to be personal opinions do leak into reporting and views taken.
Pew Center poll of Washington journalist found the proportion of liberals to conservatives in the press was 3-to-1 or 4-to-1. In 2004 only 7% said they were conservative.
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EA CO AS
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:54 pm



Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 6):
My impression of Olbermann is that he really dislikes people who disagree with him.

 checkmark 

At least, that's how it APPEARS. And this is coming from someone who genuinely likes Keith Olbermann and thinks he's an intelligent, thought-provoking guy. He comes across as smug and superior, and does create the impression that he flat-out dislikes anyone who doesn't share his opinion.

Now in all honesty I doubt that's really the case with the man in reality, but nevertheless, that's how he comes across - and it can be very grating at times.

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 11):
At least Bill Maher is entertaining.

Huh? Since when?
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Alias1024
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:08 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
For more academic proof take a look at UCLA(a liberal school) study from 2005 which found a national media bias and that most major media outlets tilt to the left. Of the 20 major media outlets studied, 18 scored left of center.

I don't understand how the study was able to justify using the votes of a consistently dysfunctional congress to determine the views of average Americans. The votes of congress are a representation of the views of rich, powerful, mostly white men. Most of congress (both Democrats and Republicans) is working for themselves, and not the average citizen. I don't think this study

Further, why should it be surprising that there would be more mentions of liberal causes than conservative? Change and pushing the limits makes news, preserving the status quo doesn't.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
No matter how unbiased one wants to be personal opinions do leak into reporting and views taken.

I'll give you this point. The job of a reporter is to try and not allow their views to seep into their reporting, but it is bound to occasionally happen.

I think where people get confused is when they try to believe that the shows by Olbermann, O'Reilly, Hannity, Dobbs, or any of those hour long "news shows" are unbiased. They are all hour long editorials, and should not be treated as news.

When I watch the actual news, I see the overall tone of MSNBC to be to the left, CNN somewhere around the middle, and FoxNews to the right. The evening news on ABC, NBC, and CBS are thirty minute drug commercials, with superficial mention of news occasionally thrown in.

I agree with the move to get Olbermann off of the political coverage. He is certainly biased even when off of his show, and deserved to be replaced. I would have no problem with him continuing "countdown" because I don't consider it news, but entertainment just like his mortal enemy Bill O'Reilly's show.
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:40 pm



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 4):
If we're going to have one network that is thoroughly biased (FOX), I don't see what's wrong with a handful of anchors on another network being biased.

Fact is FOX is not nearly biased as NBC is. Also Bill and Sean are ratings winners because mostly of their fair and balanced approach. Sure they are GOP but they are not even close to this moron who got his walking papers. Thank you NBC, finally you did something right.
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Alias1024
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:53 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 16):
Also Bill and Sean are ratings winners because mostly of their fair and balanced approach.

Bill and Sean are ratings winners because they are good at shouting down anyone that disagrees with them, and it makes for amusing entertainment. They are no more fair or balanced than Olbermann.
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N1120A
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:58 pm



Quoting RedFlyer (Thread starter):
Looks like MSNBC couldn't stand the heat it was taking for Olbermann running his sewer on the Republicans.

Oh please. FOX is a perpetual sewer of right wing coverage.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
Well to start with the near entire US media enterprise is left leaning, so I would not get too worked up about lone FOX and its slant. If you dont like, no need to watch it.

The problem with FOX is that they openly claim to be "fair and balanced" while doing the opposite.

Quoting Slider (Reply 12):
And his comments about Sarah last week were just repulsive and disgusting.

How so? He was right on.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):

For more academic proof take a look at UCLA(a liberal school)

A liberal school? I actually went to UCLA and 1) the school is not particularly left leaning and 2) the American Politics section of the Political Science department, where I did my major concentration, is actually very right leaning. Tim Groseclose is no exception there, and he used a completely flawed methodology when doing that study.

http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2005/12/the_problems_wi.html

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 16):

Fact is FOX is not nearly biased as NBC is.

You are joking, right?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 16):
Also Bill and Sean are ratings winners because mostly of their fair and balanced approach.

O'Reilly and Hannity are ratings "winners" because they do raw meat hate radio that sells to the lowest common denominator.
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LAXintl
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:13 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
A liberal school? I actually went to UCLA

Myself also, and as other UC schools I found UCLA to be very liberal in course work, staff opinions and campus atmosphere, and dont believe it has changed much since the 80s.
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redflyer
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:14 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Quoting RedFlyer (Thread starter):
Looks like MSNBC couldn't stand the heat it was taking for Olbermann running his sewer on the Republicans.

Oh please. FOX is a perpetual sewer of right wing coverage.

Perhaps. But I don't see FOX whacking their prime-time line up for any negative heat they're taking. And I also don't see their ratings in the sewer like MSNBC's has been.
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KingAir200
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:35 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 14):
Huh? Since when?

That's a matter of opinion. If you lean more conservatively and/or can't laugh at politicians, you don't like him. That being said, I don't think you really have to like or share his views to find him funny. I don't agree with all that he says, but I find it presented in a humorous manner.

[Edited 2008-09-08 15:37:57]
 
N1120A
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:42 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
Myself also, and as other UC schools I found UCLA to be very liberal in course work, staff opinions and campus atmosphere

One, it is not particularly liberal. Two, like I said, the section of the department that produced this study, one I studied in myself, is considered very right leaning, and Groseclose is no exception.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 20):
But I don't see FOX whacking their prime-time line up for any negative heat they're taking.

One, Olbermann himself ASKED for this because he did not feel he could handle the coverage in an unbiased way. Meanwhile, the people at FOX still pretend they are "fair and balanced"

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 20):
And I also don't see their ratings in the sewer like MSNBC's has been.

Really? Then how come MSNBC's ratings, especially among the key demographic, are climbing while those at FOX have tanked?
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PSA727
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:49 pm

I actually wish he would have stayed on. Olbermann's comments made it so easy to
show how in love NBC is with Obama.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
O'Reilly and Hannity are ratings "winners" because they do raw meat hate radio that sells to the lowest common denominator.

Hannity is a right-wing nutjob who gets too worked-up about insignificant things.
O'Reilly is more middle/center. He's basically a blowhard that likes to hear himself speak.
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Mir
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:53 pm



Quoting Daedaeg (Reply 9):
Olbermann is a commentator and should be view as such.

 checkmark  The anchor's desk is the wrong place for him.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 17):
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 16):
Also Bill and Sean are ratings winners because mostly of their fair and balanced approach.

Bill and Sean are ratings winners because they are good at shouting down anyone that disagrees with them, and it makes for amusing entertainment.

Absolutely. If you think that either O'Reilly or Hannity are fair and balanced, you need your head examined.

-Mir
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stratosphere
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:55 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
The problem with FOX is that they openly claim to be "fair and balanced" while doing the opposite.

I tend to think they are fair and balanced. They may lean a little right but they do seen to give the other side their say.. I have grown pretty much independent these days but I will say one thing. I found the protests in St Paul at the RNC convention to be vile. At least the right wingers didn't smash windows at businesses during the DNC convention.
 
redflyer
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:12 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 20):
But I don't see FOX whacking their prime-time line up for any negative heat they're taking.

One, Olbermann himself ASKED for this because he did not feel he could handle the coverage in an unbiased way. Meanwhile, the people at FOX still pretend they are "fair and balanced"

Something tells me a guy that is so self aggrandizing like he is would NEVER ask to be removed from the spot light, especially on something so near to his heart and, in particular, since there is no way to spin it in a positive light.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 20):
And I also don't see their ratings in the sewer like MSNBC's has been.

Really? Then how come MSNBC's ratings, especially among the key demographic, are climbing while those at FOX have tanked?

LOL! Oh, yeah, I can see the producers over at Fox quaking in their shoes right now! That one was rich! Thanks, buddy...I needed a good laugh on a Monday afternoon!
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N1120A
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:12 pm



Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 25):

I tend to think they are fair and balanced. They may lean a little right but they do seen to give the other side their say..

In what universe?
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stratosphere
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:19 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 26):
In what universe?

Are you still holding a grudge against O'reilly for his boycott of France? Actually my favorite is not even on Fox but CNN and that is Lou Dobbs.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:45 am

I think the biggest problem with Olbermann is that he lets his ego get in the way at times. Staffers at ESPN who used to work with him when Olbermann was lead anchor on the SportsCenter show privately complained a lot about Olbermann's ego causing all kinds of havoc on the set.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:00 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
Olbermann himself ASKED for this because he did not feel he could handle the coverage in an unbiased way.

Source?

Frankly, I can't see anyone on TV news voluntarily asking for less camera time, as it's counterproductive from a career standpoint - especially someone with a bit of an ego.
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L-188
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:03 am



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Of the 20 major media outlets studied, 18 scored left of center.

Who where the two that wheren't

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 14):
Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 11):
At least Bill Maher is entertaining.

Huh? Since when?

Well I liked him in "Cannibal Women in the Avacado Jungle of Death". He has pretty much sucked since then.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 16):
Fact is FOX is not nearly biased as NBC is

Wanna bet?

You wouldn't believe the flack that democrats gave Hillary and Barak for agreeing to interviews on the network during the primary.
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N1120A
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:48 am



Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 28):

Are you still holding a grudge against O'reilly for his boycott of France?

O'Reilly's childish "boycott" has nothing to do with why I can't stand the guy.

Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 28):
Actually my favorite is not even on Fox but CNN and that is Lou Dobbs.

Dobbs used to be good, but he has let his crazy xenophobia get the best of him.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 30):

Source?

If you read the article, it suggests rather strongly that Olbermann was consulted in the move and agreed to it because he didn't feel he could limit his opinions.
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LAXintl
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:06 am

According to their study Fox News and The Washington Times were the two that scored to the right.

The most centerist outlets were PBS News Hour, CNN News Night, and ABC's Good Morning America.

Most liberal were CBS Evening News, NY Times, LA Times and Wall Street Journal.

[Edited 2008-09-08 21:09:50]
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stratosphere
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:22 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 32):
Dobbs used to be good, but he has let his crazy xenophobia get the best of him.

So he is Xenophobe because he wants to secure our borders? Hey it would be nice if we can absorb the whole world and give them a better life but we cant plain and simple. I would love to ease the suffering but like I said we cannot absorb the entire world who has problems. If you think we can you and I will pay for it. That is for sure.
 
jm017
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:37 am

Honestly, just about every journalist has been tagged as having some kind of bias, either left or right. Some of he claims are obviously true, some are not. Oblermann from what I have seen is highly opinionated and probably should not do political coverage (lest he make comments like: "Oh my God, that Bastard McCain is going to win the election...we're doomed!!!  Smile).


Frankly, I am at a point where both Oblermann and the folks at Fox are driving me nuts. I just want an unbiased assessment of things.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 32):
Dobbs used to be good, but he has let his crazy xenophobia get the best of him.

Oh, so it's not just me.
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Mir
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:46 am



Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 25):
They may lean a little right but they do seen to give the other side their say..

...so that they can ridicule them. That's not fair and balanced.

-Mir
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L-188
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:28 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 36):
Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 25):
They may lean a little right but they do seen to give the other side their say..

...so that they can ridicule them. That's not fair and balanced.

No that is Keith Olbermann....which is why he got sacked from doing the desk.
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EA CO AS
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:04 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 32):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 30):

Source?

If you read the article, it suggests rather strongly that Olbermann was consulted in the move and agreed to it because he didn't feel he could limit his opinions.

 redflag 

I did read the article, and it actually appears to suggest rather strongly that while Olbermann may have been "consulted," the move was not initiated by him but rather by higher-ups at MSNBC who it appears have been counseling him on the need to be impartial while reporting news.

You may disagree with that assessment, but why else would MSNBC - as the article states - "privately monitor (Olbermann and Matthews) throughout the political season" if they felt things were just peachy?

Obviously there was some concern raised about their objectivity that merited closer scrutiny, and ultimately their reassignment.

Trust me, no matter how you spin what happened, this reassignment was not something Olbermann came to execs asking for.
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D L X
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:38 pm



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 38):
Trust me, no matter how you spin what happened, this reassignment was not something Olbermann came to execs asking for.

You can red flag it if you like, but the article that Drudge linked when this first came down clearly stated that Olbermann initiated the discussion. He wants to be free to be a liberal.
 
NIKV69
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:48 pm



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 17):
Bill and Sean are ratings winners because they are good at shouting down anyone that disagrees with them, and it makes for amusing entertainment. They are no more fair or balanced than Olbermann.

What a surprise, a liberal giving not credit to the people that watch and listen to someone that doesn't agree with him. Typical. Fact is they like someone who gives both sides a chance unlike NBC and their hate mongering. Glad to see it. It's refreshing.
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Alias1024
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:22 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 40):
What a surprise, a liberal giving not credit to the people that watch and listen to someone that doesn't agree with him. Typical. Fact is they like someone who gives both sides a chance unlike NBC and their hate mongering. Glad to see it. It's refreshing.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Crazy much?

Both sides have these windbags. Whether it's Olbermann and Franken or Hannity and O'Reilly, it's the same tactic. Bring on both sides, listen quietly and agree with the one that's on your side, while interrupting and shouting down the other side before they can complete their argument. They all do it. If you think O'Reilly or Hannity are any more fair than Olbermann or Franken, you need your head examined.

They are all like tabloid magazines. Junk food for the brain. All entertainment, with little actual substance.
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PacNWjet
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:28 pm



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 41):
Both sides have these windbags. Whether it's Olbermann and Franken or Hannity and O'Reilly, it's the same tactic. Bring on both sides, listen quietly and agree with the one that's on your side, while interrupting and shouting down the other side before they can complete their argument.

At least O'Reilly and (to a lesser extent) Hannity make an effort to comprehend the views of those with whom they disagree. Olbermann gives the impression that he is not even interested in what those who disagree with him think.
 
slider
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:58 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 32):

Dobbs used to be good, but he has let his crazy xenophobia get the best of him.

More rational analysis from the left. This is why political discussions with you always lead nowhere. Nice to nkow your world is so extremely bifurcated.
 
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:08 pm



Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 6):

Second, while O'Reilly may have strong opinions about an issue, he at least appears to understand where the other side is coming from. To my mind, Olbermann comes across as dismissive and intolerant of those with whom he disagrees, at least more so than O'Reilly.

I used to be in denial about that...but Olbermann's juvenile "Worst Person in the world" thing of Arpey because AA charged the soldier for the bag (that he'd get reimbursed for) made me realize how much Olberman skews things to fit his opinion

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 16):
s because mostly of their fair and balanced approach.



Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 25):
They may lean a little right but they do seen to give the other side their say.

That's the problem...the only "other side" they let on consists of people who are extreme liberals...to the nutjob level - that way it's further reinforced that the "other guys" are truly out of their minds.
.
 
N1120A
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:30 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 43):
More rational analysis from the left. This is why political discussions with you always lead nowhere. Nice to nkow your world is so extremely bifurcated.

You act like xenophobia doesn't exist, which is blatantly untrue, especially in the case of Dobbs.

Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 34):

So he is Xenophobe because he wants to secure our borders?

No, he is a xenophobe because he advocates a scorched earth policy that sets aside all rational thought in favor of excluding certain groups of people.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
NIKV69
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:01 pm



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 41):
Crazy much?

Both sides have these windbags. Whether it's Olbermann and Franken or Hannity and O'Reilly, it's the same tactic. Bring on both sides, listen quietly and agree with the one that's on your side, while interrupting and shouting down the other side before they can complete their argument. They all do it. If you think O'Reilly or Hannity are any more fair than Olbermann or Franken, you need your head examined.

Your going to tell me that Sean and Bill are the same as Franken and Olbermann? It is you that needs his head examined. There is reason Matthews and Keith got the boot. Next your going to tell me they are the same as Michael Moore.  crazy 
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
slider
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:10 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 45):
You act like xenophobia doesn't exist, which is blatantly untrue, especially in the case of Dobbs.

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm sure there are a few isolationist xenophobes out there. Then there are realists, of which Dobbs is one of.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 45):
No, he is a xenophobe because he advocates a scorched earth policy that sets aside all rational thought in favor of excluding certain groups of people.

Can you kindly elaborate on what he advocates specifically? I'd appreciate that, because everything I've read has been reasonable albeit strong from him. Anti-illegal immigration, for selective immigration (which is a good thing--there are good and bad immigrants, we should always want the best from anywhere who are willing to become Americans) and willing to illustrate the folly of the bureaucrats on both sides who are beholden to big business.

If I'm incorrect on that, I'll gladly stand corrected. But he's not a hateful racist bigot xenophobe as he gets branded. Neither is Ron Paul. But he too is slammed as an isolationist when all he is doing is rightfully upholding the law of the land, and wants to recall our overreach globally.
 
N1120A
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:37 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 47):
Then there are realists, of which Dobbs is one of.

That is Dobbs' biggest problem, he is not actually a realist. The "kick 'em out yesterday" policy he so staunchly advocates both ignores reality (20% long term rise in food prices) and plays right into the hand of xenophobic bigots who seem to have this idea of an "American" being a white protestant.

Quoting Slider (Reply 47):
Neither is Ron Paul. But he too is slammed as an isolationist when all he is doing is rightfully upholding the law of the land, and wants to recall our overreach globally.

Paul is a blatant racist, and that is documented. That said, I agree with him and Dobbs (and Obama) that we are over stretched globally and need to cut that wasteful spending and spend a portion of that drain on internal projects that will both strengthen our infrastructure and provide valuable jobs in times of massive unemployment.

Quoting Slider (Reply 47):
and willing to illustrate the folly of the bureaucrats on both sides who are beholden to big business.

He and I are totally in agreement there. The problem is that Dobbs has spent so much time on his immigration witch hunt that he rarely talks about the real problems facing this country now.

Quoting Slider (Reply 47):
Anti-illegal immigration

I think the vast majority of people, right and left, are anti-illegal immigration. The difference of opinion comes when dealing with the situation. The true realists are those who know that 1) there is no way you will ever stop it by physical means, so you may as well not waste the money, 2) we are too reliant on those already here to quit cold turkey and 3) our immigration policy needs to be focused less on giving big business what it wants and more on a balanced system that allows for our economy to get the labor it needs while staying away from violating the Constitution.
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slider
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RE: MSNBC: Olbermann Out For Political Coverage

Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:03 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 48):
Paul is a blatant racist, and that is documented.

Support, please.

Although I agree with many of your other points and how you expounded on them. Had you done that in the first place, it wouldhave been more cogent and understood. Voice of reason and all that, instead of branding people xenophobes and engaging in ad hominem attacks.

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