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Tugger
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Obama - His Plans To Deal With Economic Problems

Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:12 am

OK, I just started a thread on what McCain wants to do for our current economic ills and I thought it only fair to start one for Obama. I want to know is something real and specific:

What are Senator Obama's plans for economic recovery if he should become the next President of the United States? How will his administration deal with a nation that spends half a billion dollars more each year than it takes in?

I want real, concrete plans, he has made some statements but they are lost in all the B.S. flying around.

What will he/his administration do? What are his proposals? How will he actually get stuff through Congress? How will he convince the public? How will he be able to do something vital?

I want to know why I should vote for Obama over McCain! And I don't want "because McCain is the same as Bush", there should be no mention of McCain or opposing campaigns, only what Obama's plans, proposals, and priorities are for the United States.

What is out there?

Thanks,

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
LAXintl
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RE: Obama - His Plans To Deal With Economic Problems

Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:23 am

Raise taxes is one way he wants to deal with economy.

I guess he does not belong to the school of thinking its better to leave money in peoples pockets for them to spend it to stimulate things, then tax tax tax.  banghead 
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
GOwithCO332
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RE: Obama - His Plans To Deal With Economic Problems

Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:33 am



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):

Can't disagree. But, I really object to the theory that the US is in this "depression". Yes, on the national level, we are having a little downturn, but you cannot argue facts. Our median salary is $42,000USD which is one of the highest, our human development rating is the 12th highest, and our unemployment is at a not great not bad 6%. No matter who takes office and no matter what anybody says, the US has such a large GDP per capita and national that that obivously means work is getting done and people are working.

Yes, on a very micro level we are having a slight depression. But, it doesn't affect the average American daily life. We will hear the stories and the foreclosing pictures, but the US economy is pretty good. Now the poor education, that is something that is a little more tangible, but another issue. My philosophy is, everything from the stapler on your desk to the soap in your kitchen is brought to you by people, who work. North Korea and Liberia are true examples of countries where the economy is virtually not functioning. There may be a full list of issues and problems with the US, but the economic ones are more of skepticism and hype, rather than reality and fact.
 
bhmbaglock
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RE: Obama - His Plans To Deal With Economic Problems

Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:39 am

Change.


















That is all.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
LAXintl
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RE: Obama - His Plans To Deal With Economic Problems

Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:49 am



Quoting GOwithCO332 (Reply 2):
I really object to the theory that the US is in this "depression".

When did I suggest that  Confused

No we are not even in a recession technically, however large sectors of the economy are having a hard time, and billions in capital and equity have been wiped off the map as the investment markets have soured and peoples home values have deflated.

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 3):
Change.

Yes, when they talk about 'change' the only change they really mean is that out of your and my pockets!
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
PPVRA
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RE: Obama - His Plans To Deal With Economic Problems

Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:59 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
spend it to stimulate things

More importantly, save & invest. That's how your economy grows and allows companies like Boeing to finance huge projects like the 787. Otherwise your economy will resemble North Korea's.

On the other hand:

Quote:
Reinstate PAYGO Rules: Obama believes that a critical step in restoring fiscal discipline is enforcing pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) budgeting rules which require new spending commitments or tax changes to be paid for by cuts to other programs or new revenue.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/fiscal/

Would be a really good thing.

[Edited 2008-09-10 19:16:29]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
LAXintl
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RE: Obama - His Plans To Deal With Economic Problems

Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:28 am



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 5):
More importantly, save & invest.

???

Consumption is what drives the US economy.

You want to see what savings can do? Look at Japans decade long latargic economy which has one of the worlds highest consumer savings rate.
The minute folks here in the US decide to sit on their money is when we really enter a recension/depression and see a big economic contraction.

Money needs to keep flowing, not locked up in savings accounts for the economy to be healthy.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
JeffM
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RE: Obama - His Plans To Deal With Economic Problems

Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:07 am



Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 3):
Change.


A flat tire can be considered 'change' from one filled with air, but it's not a good thing.....
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Obama - His Plans To Deal With Economic Problems

Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:15 am

I highly recommend you get real information elsewhere. You're only going to get a bunch of BS on this forum.
 
N174UA
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RE: Obama - His Plans To Deal With Economic Problems

Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:34 am



Quoting LAxintl (Reply 4):
No we are not even in a recession technically, however large sectors of the economy are having a hard time, and billions in capital and equity have been wiped off the map as the investment markets have soured and peoples home values have deflated

Recession is two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth. Q1 was bad, and the rebate checks we got in April/May helped make damn sure that a.) Q2 didn't put us at the 2nd quarter of negative growth and b.) neither political party would be blamed for putting us in a recession, which of course is flawed logic anyway...considering the economy is cyclical anyway.

Help those who are TRULY hurt by a downturn in the economy...not those who are crying wolf because they bought a house too big or borrowed against their house to buy that new car/boat.

The rebate checks were a REALLY DUMB IDEA....it only added to the budget deficit, and contributed to inflation by introducing more M1 (currency) into the economy at a certain time, which would lead to a quick spurt in spending, and thus price hikes.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Consumption is what drives the US economy.

True, but the problem we've had since the '90s is that we have over-consumed, and worse...OVER BORROWED....people who have no idea how to budget and manage their finances lived well beyond their means, and used their home equity (if they had any to begin with) as ATM machines.

Now the cows are coming home....both for those folks, and those financial institutions who were dumb enough to lend to them. The higher the interest rate on that credit card, the less likely they will ever be able to pay it off.
 
PPVRA
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RE: Obama - His Plans To Deal With Economic Problems

Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:09 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
The minute folks here in the US decide to sit on their money



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Money needs to keep flowing, not locked up in savings accounts for the economy to be healthy.

If it's in the bank, it isn't just sitting there being pretty. It's being loaned out to companies to finance projects and start up businesses, among other things. Unless you keep your cash literally in a piggy bank.

You've got to save/invest money too, i.e., forgo current consumption for future greater gains, not consume everything you make.

Btw, The Paradox of Thrift is what you are talking about.

[Edited 2008-09-11 13:22:41]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
redflyer
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RE: Obama - His Plans To Deal With Economic Problems

Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:33 pm



Quoting N174UA (Reply 9):
people who have no idea how to budget and manage their finances lived well beyond their means, and used their home equity (if they had any to begin with) as ATM machines.

No disrespect intended, but the reason SOME people used their home equities like ATMs is because the lenders - the very ones that are in the tank or on the brink - went beyond respectable funding practices. You wouldn't know this from reading the news, but only around 2% of home mortgages are in the tank. I'm not trying to diminish the problem, but what I am saying is that 1) the problem goes beyond "people who have no idea how to budget"; and 2) the fundamentals of the economy are still strong. EVERY economic up cycle is ALWAYS followed by a down cycle. The key is to mitigate the down-turns. Better yet, someone needs to learn how to predict them with accuracy.

I don't for a moment believe any politician - BHO or JSM - knows the answers to righting the economy. (The answer to fixing the economy goes far beyond the abilities of any one person.) The key, really, is which one will keep the rest of us safe from more damage being done.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 10):
If it's in the bank, it isn't just sitting there being pretty. It's being loaned out to companies to finance projects and start up businesses, among other things.

There would be fewer projects and start-ups, meaning less reason for businesses to borrow, if people aren't spending their money. I'm not saying you're wrong (not completely, anyway), but it is a classic chicken-or-egg scenario.
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Aaron747
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RE: Obama - His Plans To Deal With Economic Problems

Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:59 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
You want to see what savings can do? Look at Japans decade long latargic economy which has one of the worlds highest consumer savings rate.

Not anymore. Too many housewives buying Dior and Prada for their 12 year-old's wallet. Too many luxury golf vacations flying business class to Australia and Hawaii as well. Those days are over.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
PPVRA
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RE: Obama - His Plans To Deal With Economic Problems

Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:00 am



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 11):

There would be fewer projects and start-ups, meaning less reason for businesses to borrow, if people aren't spending their money. I'm not saying you're wrong (not completely, anyway), but it is a classic chicken-or-egg scenario.

You need both, no doubt. You couldn't avoid it anyways  checkmark 
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
WunalaYann
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RE: Obama - His Plans To Deal With Economic Problems

Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:26 am



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 10):
If it's in the bank, it isn't just sitting there being pretty. It's being loaned out to companies to finance projects and start up businesses, among other things. Unless you keep your cash literally in a piggy bank.

You've got to save/invest money too, i.e., forgo current consumption for future greater gains, not consume everything you make.

I second that 100%. It is the basis of capital accumulation. And quite a few northern European countries have been able to sustain very respectable growth rates for quite a long time despite being substantially thriftier than Americans, British or Australians.

Keeping the money flowing is indeed needed, but the origin and destination of the flow is not necessarily always "salary towards final consumption".

 Smile
 
StarAC17
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RE: Obama - His Plans To Deal With Economic Problems

Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:42 am



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
You want to see what savings can do? Look at Japans decade long latargic economy which has one of the worlds highest consumer savings rate.
The minute folks here in the US decide to sit on their money is when we really enter a recension/depression and see a big economic contraction.

What Japan does has a much better long term effect on their economy as they don't overspend their money and will always have some in the event of a huge national crisis. Maybe the US economy is a lot like it's airline industry where it is much larger than it should be and needs a huge correction to stabilize. Yes it will hurt but you will wish you saved that money when your debt comes due and it will someday.

Quoting N174UA (Reply 9):
True, but the problem we've had since the '90s is that we have over-consumed, and worse...OVER BORROWED....people who have no idea how to budget and manage their finances lived well beyond their means, and used their home equity (if they had any to begin with) as ATM machines.

Another bad thing is that for an economy to be good it has to rely on people being fiscally irresponsible in both the micro and macro terms which is also in need of a huge self correction.
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