TUNisia
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Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:32 am

Here's the Gibson interview with Palin. Amazing that she had no idea what the Bush Doctrine was when asked.

Here's the clip... starts at about 7:50 into the video.



GIBSON: Do you agree with the Bush doctrine?

PALIN: In what respect, Charlie?

GIBSON: The Bush — well, what do you — what do you interpret it to be?

PALIN: His world view?

GIBSON: No, the Bush doctrine, enunciated September 2002, before the Iraq war.

PALIN: I believe that what President Bush has attempted to do is rid this world of Islamic extremism, terrorists who are hell bent on destroying our nation. There have been blunders along the way, though. There have been mistakes made. And with new leadership, and that’s the beauty of American elections, of course, and democracy, is with new leadership comes opportunity to do things better.

GIBSON: The Bush doctrine, as I understand it, is that we have the right of anticipatory self-defense, that we have the right to a preemptive strike against any other country that we think is going to attack us. Do you agree with that?

PALIN: Charlie, if there is legitimate and enough intelligence that tells us that a strike is imminent against American people, we have every right to defend our country. In fact, the president has the obligation, the duty to defend.
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
 
L-188
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:38 am

It's doesn't actually exist.

The "Bush Doctrine" is just a made up phrase used by the left wingers in this country to demonize our defense policies and our current proactive response to international terrorist groups such as Al-Quarto-quilla,quinta-in, Crapo however they spell it.


It is a made up term that has no basis in reality.
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QANTAS077
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:46 am

well its pretty stupid of her to answer like she did if it doesn't exist, yeah?

she certainly answered like there's a Bush doctrine.

[Edited 2008-09-11 20:53:16]
 
TUNisia
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:51 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
It's doesn't actually exist.

It is a made up term that has no basis in reality.

No basis in reality? You should tell that to those US military families and Iraqi families who have lost loved ones from the War on Terror in Iraq.

BTW...nice try at trying to erase history!

[Edited 2008-09-11 20:56:32]
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
 
L-188
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:54 am



Quoting TUNisia (Reply 3):
You should tell that to those US military families and Iraqi families who have lost loved ones from the War on Terror in Iraq.

I didn't say there wasn't a war on terror, just there wasn't a Bush Doctrine.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
TUNisia
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:59 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
I didn't say there wasn't a war on terror, just there wasn't a Bush Doctrine.

According to you? Has any national news outlet printed a story stating there is no Bush Doctrine?

There are countless stories (found through a Google search) in major newspapers, magazines, and cable news websites speaking of the Bush Doctrine contrary to what you're saying.
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:01 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
I didn't say there wasn't a war on terror, just there wasn't a Bush Doctrine.

so why answer the question is such a catergorical fashion if there isn't one?

seems rather stupid to me.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:02 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
It's doesn't actually exist.

The "Bush Doctrine" is just a made up phrase used by the left wingers in this country to demonize our defense policies and our current proactive response to international terrorist groups such as Al-Quarto-quilla,quinta-in, Crapo however they spell it.


It is a made up term that has no basis in reality.

Uh, what on earth are you talking about? Is the Truman Doctrine a made up term by right wingers in the 1950s? It only has a negative implication because you take it that way. Maybe you should open up a history book sometime. Maybe you'll realize its commonplace to discuss the policies and strategies of administrations, and not created by partisan hacks to insult your favorite President....

What is inherently negative about it, anyway?
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:09 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):

It is a made up term that has no basis in reality.



Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
made up phrase u



Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
It's doesn't actually exist.



Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
r, just there wasn't a Bush Doctrine.

Let me break this down, and make it really easy for you.

"Bush"- George W. Bush, the 43rd President of the United States

"Doctrine"- A stated principle of government policy, mainly in foreign or military affairs. Ex: The Monroe Doctrine



But according to you...this simply does not exist...and it is a made up term by the left... Does the Bush administration not have any policies?
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L-188
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:13 am



Quoting TUNisia (Reply 5):
Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
I didn't say there wasn't a war on terror, just there wasn't a Bush Doctrine.

According to you? Has any national news outlet printed a story stating there is no Bush Doctrine?

There are countless stories (found through a Google search) in major newspapers, magazines, and cable news websites speaking of the Bush Doctrine contrary to what you're saying

Exactly my point it is a media creation to make a political point.

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 8):
But according to you...this simply does not exist...and it is a made up term by the left... Does the Bush administration not have any policies?

So basicly your admiting that GW has a plan???

I thought the left wing thought GW was planless.....he can't be both.  boggled 
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
TUNisia
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:18 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 9):
Exactly my point it is a media creation to make a political point.

Have you considered a job with Fox News?
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:19 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 9):

I thought the left wing thought GW was planless.....he can't be both. boggled

Oh, nice rebuttal. Classify all liberals into a mold of thinking Bush is a total idiot...nice one. Even if i id think that (which I don't), there is still undeniable expertise and intelligence operating behind him.... This really can't be your response, can it? A made up term of the left wing for partisanship reasons....... you have GOT to be kidding me. Same with the Monroe Doctrine, the Truman Doctrine? Get a clue.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
tsaord
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:19 am

I never knew what it was either. I hope people who are sick of Bush don't use this as a measuring stick. I think a LOT people right now don't even care what doctrines his names are on at this point.
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baroque
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:31 am

Oh my Lord! And that looked to be the thought bubble coming out of the interviewer too.

Just a side note, if you want to stop other groups of terrorists from attacking America (not even they had an ambition to destroy the US) it might be best to work out why they did it rather than sit in a paranoid corner repeating "they hate us" like a machine gun.

I wonder what she would answer if asked if it would be a good idea to try to understand terrorists. The most likely answer would confuse understand them with like them. Oh my Lord!

Thanks TUNisia.
 
aerokiwi
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:44 am

Uhhhh, so what is the Bush Doctrine?
 
sccutler
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:45 am

"The" Bush Doctrine?

Ridiculous question.

Reminds me of one of the fraternity "rituals" we did in college- ask the pledge to describe the '"Great Seal" of the fraternity; they'd stammer and stutter, try describing the crest, etc., and we'd gravely inform them that they had missed the question and would be expelled.

Then we'd uncover the "Seal," a picture of a ... seal.

There was no "Great Seal," other than the one we'd made up. From that day forward, of course, they knew what the Great Seal was, and it was an inside joke.

Sort of like a reporter asking a Vice-Presidential Nominee her views on the "Bush Doctrine"- a clever inside joke for a reporter trying to create news.

And they wonder why the press is held in such poor regard lately...
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:55 am

Boy I can't believe that some people here are so disconnected and oblivious that they don't know of the "Bush Doctrine". As to it being a creation of opponents, its not, it's been recognized for a long time and it came into play after the September 11th attacks. Put in its simplest terms it was originally defined by the policy of "preemption". It has changed and evolved as anything political does and sadly it has evolved into something much muuddier due to Iraq.

I found numerous references to it on the web and in particular in many conservative sites. A simple and good definition was this one from 2006:

Quote:
The problem is that the Bush Doctrine has changed. At its inception, the doctrine stood for the proposition that the U.S. would use force preemptively if necessary to destroy terrorists and those who harbor them. It later evolved into something different — a Democracy Project."

http://levin.nationalreview.com/post...A2M2IzMDgzYjI1MWJiNTNjZmFjY2M5YzI=

Tugg
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BN747
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:59 am

"Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is"

Screw that!!!

1) The biggest bomb was when asked about 'Foreign Policy Experience'...

..Palin tries to schuck and jive her way out of it with 'Well, my understanding of energy issues serves as similar..blah, bah'...wow! WTF was that?

I'm glad Gibson didn't let her slide on that..he threw it back at her and she clung to that ridiculous response.

2) The 2nd torpedo was Gibson's question "Have traveled internationally aside from your troop visit to Iraq?"

Palin: Yeah...Canada and Mexico.

Barf! What??? Although, technically that is 'international'..yet in 21st Century terms of international travel that means usage of a passport (really going abroad)..everyone knows a vist to Tijuana (TJ) and Vancouver doesn't mean squat! Imagine Barack Obama trying to pass off Canada and Mexico as 'his international travels abroad'..the press and everyone on the planet would have a field day!

Boy...all week prepping Palin..and this is the best she could do?

And the "I'm sending my first born, my 1st son to Iraq' .. followed by 'My son has volunteered to go to combat...' wait..which is it? It's like did your daughter decide to get married or did you tell her.."you're getting married" no questions asked!?

Republicans....there's no 'EASY' button outta this one..either keep her away from the microphones (and the debate with Biden).. OR start looking for the 'PANIC' Button..brcuz this pitbull with lipstick won't hunt! Or win if she keeps talking!


BN747
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baroque
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:05 am



Quoting Tugger (Reply 16):
Quote:
The problem is that the Bush Doctrine has changed. At its inception, the doctrine stood for the proposition that the U.S. would use force preemptively if necessary to destroy terrorists and those who harbor them. It later evolved into something different --- a Democracy Project."

That certainly was the "brilliant" idea Howard tried to copy here. And then the Indonesians (presumably) mentioned, OK we have a few terrorists, whose army are you going to bring with you as ours is quite large!

Howard never quite reformulated it, but he certainly was less willing to push it. And he will forever be known as the Deputy Sheriff - to our considerable loss in SE Asia.

It will be really nice when foreign policies are planned so they can be effective and not sounded off in a speech just to sound good for home consumption.
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:07 am



Quoting BN747 (Reply 17):
"I'm sending my first born, my 1st son to Iraq'

there she was inserting her kids into the debate again...I was of the impression that the son was a ratbag and getting the illegal drugs, is that correct?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 17):
The 2nd torpedo was Gibson's question "Have traveled internationally aside from your troop visit to Iraq?"

didn't she go to Kuwait only?

what I found most disturbing is her don't blink responses, don't blink = don't think and fuck me, that's dangerous!
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:08 am



Quoting Tugger (Reply 16):
Boy I can't believe that some people here are so disconnected and oblivious that they don't know of the "Bush Doctrine". As to it being a creation of opponents, its not, it's been recognized for a long time and it came into play after the September 11th attacks. Put in its simplest terms it was originally defined by the policy of "preemption". It has changed and evolved as anything political does and sadly it has evolved into something much muuddier due to Iraq.

I found numerous references to it on the web and in particular in many conservative sites. A simple and good definition was this one from 2006:

Exactly. There is nothing biased about the term itself, at all. It is what you make of it. The only way it's possible to think of it as left wing propaganda is if you dont know any better, which clearly is the case for many here..
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Mir
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:13 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
It's doesn't actually exist.

The Bush Doctrine is just as much a Doctrine as any of the other _______ Doctrines that we've had.

And Palin should have heard about it, even if she does keep to Alaska.

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 14):
Uhhhh, so what is the Bush Doctrine?

Several things, but a big one is the idea that the possibility of a threat justifies a unilateral pre-emptive strike. It used to be that a pre-emptive strike (which was and still is legal) could only be justified if the enemy were clearly going to attack you (i.e. massing tanks on the border). But Iraq was attacked not on the basis that it was a clear and present threat, but on the suspicion of a threat. This puts it into the realm of a preventive strike (which isn't legal), but Bush referred to it as a pre-emptive strike.

There are other aspects: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Doctrine

-Mir
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TUNisia
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:16 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 21):
And Palin should have heard about it, even if she does keep to Alaska.

Wasilla City Hall...



[Edited 2008-09-11 22:16:20]
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
 
BN747
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:06 am



Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 19):

there she was inserting her kids into the debate again...I was of the impression that the son was a ratbag and getting the illegal drugs, is that correct?

Not sure..I've read/heard nothing about that particular kid..

..but the one being chucked into the 'shotgun' wedding..he's clearly no 'winner'..but he's just a typical redneck (his words) high school kid, who I sense wishes he never banged/knocked up her daughter.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 19):
didn't she go to Kuwait only?

Maybe it was Kuwait (via Germany on one direction) and a refueling stop in Ireland on the return (she did try to pawn off 'that she'd visited Ireland once)...then she got called on it and haven't mentioned it again since.

BN747
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QANTAS077
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:21 am

^ I've got a feeling that Palin will soon become the democrat's best asset..  Wink
 
Mir
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:02 am



Quoting TUNisia (Reply 22):
Wasilla City Hall...

The fact that it looks like a bus stop is no excuse.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
flynavy
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:48 am



Quoting TUNisia (Reply 22):

Did you want fries with your executive experience sir?  Smile

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Updated due to recent "changes".
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Dreadnought
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:42 am



Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 2):
well its pretty stupid of her to answer like she did if it doesn't exist, yeah?

she certainly answered like there's a Bush doctrine.

Which part of it?

The Bush Doctrine title has been applied to several things, including

1) Treating those that harbor terrorists as terrorists

2) The concept of pre-emptive war

3) "You're either for us or against us"

4) Acting unilaterally (even if he didn't)

and a few others.

So I think it was an overly broad question. But he should have just picked one and ran with it. Her answer made it look like she did not know, which wasn't true.

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NIKV69
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:12 pm



Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
The "Bush Doctrine" is just a made up phrase used by the left wingers in this country to demonize our defense policies and our current proactive response to international terrorist groups such as Al-Quarto-quilla,quinta-in, Crapo however they spell it.

I know they love talking points and this is so typical.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
It is a made up term that has no basis in reality.

That is ok not much of the DNC is.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 2):
well its pretty stupid of her to answer like she did if it doesn't exist, yeah?

Why, it only exists in your head Monty so why should she answer like it's a real thing?

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 8):
But according to you...this simply does not exist...and it is a made up term by the left... Does the Bush administration not have any policies?

Sure they do but it is only being used negatively and not in a general term.

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 14):
Uhhhh, so what is the Bush Doctrine?

Invade Iraq for oil, can't you tell with all that free oil we have  sarcastic 

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 19):
there she was inserting her kids into the debate again...I was of the impression that the son was a ratbag and getting the illegal drugs, is that correct?

Who knows, but bet your bottom dollar the DNC has someone going through her trash and going through her past with a microscope. You libs are scared to death of her. Rightfully so.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 24):
^ I've got a feeling that Palin will soon become the democrat's best asset..

No that is Biden.  crazy 

Quoting Flynavy (Reply 26):
Did you want fries with your executive experience sir?

That is classic Chris, you guys are sure getting desperate toward the end.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Stretch 8
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:22 pm

Like it or not, this woman will be President someday.
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D L X
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:36 pm



Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
The "Bush Doctrine" is just a made up phrase used by the left wingers

Crock of spit.

Conservative commentator Charles Krauthammer invented the term in 2001. (http://edition.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/time/2001/03/05/doctrine.html) It's not even demonization, bub. It is simply the doctrine that says "if you harbor terrorists, you are our enemy" and "you're either with us on this, or you are against us on this. There is no in between."

BTW, the fact that you thought it was made up means you're sexist.  Silly  Wink

Quoting BN747 (Reply 17):
Republicans....there's no 'EASY' button outta this one

Yeah, but DUDE that would be an awesome skit on Leno or Conan.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 27):
The Bush Doctrine title has been applied to several things, including

1) Treating those that harbor terrorists as terrorists

2) The concept of pre-emptive war

3) "You're either for us or against us"

4) Acting unilaterally (even if he didn't)

Agreed, but it didn't seem like Palin knew any of those.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:51 pm

I never knew it was called the Bush Doctrine. What a dumb name, and a dumb un-American doctrine. Perhaps it's best if Palin only knows enough about it to squash it. We have a defensive military, period. We preemptively attack no one (except for the South Ossetians).
 
AGM100
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:29 pm



Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
The "Bush Doctrine" is just a made up phrase used by the left wingers in this country to demonize our defense policies and our current proactive response to international terrorist groups such as Al-Quarto-quilla,quinta-in, Crapo however they spell it.

 checkmark  The thread should have ended right after L188 posts this. Its a term born of the left wing intelligentsia and it sounds so good over a Latte. . Intelligentsia Who of course have a much better of Doctrine of Ignore until they attack .. then negotiate. Or better , give them what they want up front .. so they wont attack us.
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sv7887
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:44 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 32):
The thread should have ended right after L188 posts this. Its a term born of the left wing intelligentsia and it sounds so good over a Latte. . Intelligentsia Who of course have a much better of Doctrine of Ignore until they attack .. then negotiate. Or better , give them what they want up front .. so they wont attack us.

It's a term like Partial Birth Abortion, a politicized term without any real meaning. The Bush Doctrine has seemingly evolved in his second term with Condi and Defense Secretary Gates. They "seem" (I am never sure if it is BS or a real change) to be acting quite restrained with Iran by refusing Israel arms.
 
D L X
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:19 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 32):
Its a term born of the left wing intelligentsia

You know, left wingers like Charles Krauthammer.

Dude, you and L-188 really need to do your homework before you go spouting this stuff.
 
mdsh00
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:39 pm



Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 19):

there she was inserting her kids into the debate again...I was of the impression that the son was a ratbag and getting the illegal drugs, is that correct?

Forget that. She asks the media not to politicize her children but yet doesn't hesitate to bring up the fact, and publicize the fact that her son is going to Iraq (I heard that shouldn't have been done according to MOS rules right?). Notice how Joe Biden has publicly said nothing about his son going to Iraq soon?

That and the fact that she is so ready to go to war with Russia over Georgia? Does not fly with me.
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redflyer
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:54 pm

Interesting commentary by a lot of people on this thread. And very amusing, considering I would bet my mother that without exception (well, maybe with the exception of Baroque), no one else knew what the Bush Doctrine is and probably never heard of it before yesterday.

For all the chest-thumping, would someone kindly point to a definitive source - other than the media, which appears to have coined the phrase - that corroborates the existence of a Bush Doctrine and what, precisely, it means. There are several different meanings of the Bush Doctrine, which usually means it is a loosely coined phrase.
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D L X
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:56 pm



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 36):
no one else knew what the Bush Doctrine is and probably never heard of it before yesterday.

1) I knew, and
2) no one one this thread is running for high national office (to my knowledge).

These are not excuses for her response. What's unfortunate is when she very clearly didn't know something she was too afraid or too proud to say "I don't know."
 
PPVRA
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:12 pm

That's apalin'.. . .
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baroque
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:15 pm



Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 35):
That and the fact that she is so ready to go to war with Russia over Georgia? Does not fly with me.

I hope someone asks her how she thinks the second day of a war against Russia will go and where she will be during the first day.

On negotiations, senior police are so left wing:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/30/alqaida.terrorism

Time to talk to al-Qaida, senior police chief urges

Britain should negotiate with leaders of al-Qaida as part of a new strategy to end its violent campaign, one of the country's most senior police officers has said.

Speaking to the Guardian, Sir Hugh Orde, head of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, said the experiences of his force tackling the IRA had convinced him that policing alone - detecting plots and arresting people - would not defeat al-Qaida inspired terrorism.

Orde, the frontrunner to be the next commissioner of the Metropolitan police, said he could not think of a single terrorism campaign in history that ended without negotiation.


Does he not realise the IRA has ceased operations due to being killed, beaten and generally bundled out of Ireland?

He should talk to that Martin McGuiness as he is a fine statesman, and he had plenty of administrative experience before taking up politics. He probably gets a chuckle or two out of the Guardian article.
 
redflyer
Posts: 3882
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:26 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 37):
Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 36):
no one else knew what the Bush Doctrine is and probably never heard of it before yesterday.

1) I knew, and

I notice you didn't offer up an answer to my request. So, if YOU knew then please tell me PRECISELY what the "Bush Doctrine" is. In other words, can you point me to a definitive explanation from a solid source? Preferably a government source, but I'll accept one from a think-tank or other professional study. But don't bother quoting a media source - a cursory search will reveal that there are different meanings and explanations of the "Bush Doctrine" amongst the various media sources.
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
D L X
Posts: 11663
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:34 pm

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 40):
I notice you didn't offer up an answer to my request.

You're asking for a precise answer to an imprecise issue. But don't hang your hat on the fact that it is imprecise - Palin should have known the basic premises of the doctrine. She could have even said, "that's not a very precise term" or "that term means many things", but instead she said "it's Bush's world view."

So amongst all the answers that were arguably right, such as:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 27):
1) Treating those that harbor terrorists as terrorists

2) The concept of pre-emptive war

3) "You're either for us or against us"

4) Acting unilaterally (even if he didn't)

Palin's answer was definitively wrong.

Saying it doesn't exist because it wasn't named so by a government source is a bullshit argument. Neither was "Powell Doctrine" or even "Right Wing Conspiracy," but if you're up on relevant events, you would know what those things are, and should be able to talk about it.

[Edited 2008-09-12 08:35:43]
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:37 pm



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 40):
I notice you didn't offer up an answer to my request. So, if YOU knew then please tell me PRECISELY what the "Bush Doctrine" is. In other words, can you point me to a definitive explanation from a solid source? Preferably a government source, but I'll accept one from a think-tank or other professional study. But don't bother quoting a media source - a cursory search will reveal that there are different meanings and explanations of the "Bush Doctrine" amongst the various media sources.

Does Wiki not work for you? Now you are going to complain that it is recent plant. Sorry there it is not if you look at the history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Doctrine

* (cur) (last) 00:20, 29 September 2002 Fredbauder (Talk | contribs) (removed bad white house link and restored NYT link) (undo)
* (cur) (last) 00:04, 29 September 2002 Fredbauder (Talk | contribs) (restored NYT link) (undo)
* (cur) (last) 23:33, 28 September 2002 Fredbauder (Talk | contribs) (restored link to hegemony) (undo)
* (cur) (last) 22:13, 27 September 2002 128.32.172.179 (Talk) (undo)
* (cur) (last) 21:56, 27 September 2002 66.169.201.165 (Talk) (undo)
* (cur) (last) 21:32, 27 September 2002 66.169.201.165 (Talk) (undo)
* (cur) (last) 16:10, 23 September 2002 Soulpatch (Talk | contribs) (undo)
* (cur) (last) 06:27, 23 September 2002 The Cunctator (Talk | contribs) m (undo)
* (cur) (last) 04:30, 23 September 2002 Soulpatch (Talk | contribs) (undo)
* (cur) (last) 16:36, 22 September 2002 Fredbauder (Talk | contribs) (more on application) (undo)
* (cur) (last) 16:34, 22 September 2002 Fredbauder (Talk | contribs) (a try for intended scope) (undo)
* (cur) (last) 11:59, 21 September 2002 Tzartzam (Talk | contribs) (Joint Vision 2020) (undo)
* (cur) (last) 11:49, 21 September 2002 Fredbauder (Talk | contribs) m (undo)
* (cur) (last) 11:34, 21 September 2002 Fredbauder (Talk | contribs) (relation to self-defense clause of UN Charter) (undo)
* (cur) (last) 02:53, 21 September 2002 Bryan Derksen (Talk | contribs) m (typo) (undo)
* (cur) (last) 02:18, 21 September 2002 Fredbauder (Talk | contribs) m (undo)
* (cur) (last) 02:16, 21 September 2002 Fredbauder (Talk | contribs) (The premptive strike doctrine)


?Sinks that theory. Interesting to note that about 150 of the 500 or so edits have been on 12 Sept 2008.

Or you can try (dated 2003 by the way):

http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.15845/pub_detail.asp

he Bush Doctrine, which is likely to shape U.S. policy for decades to come, reflects the realities of American power as well as the aspirations of American political principles.



Does the Bush Doctrine represent a new course for American policy or simply an elaborate justification for the administration's actions? Why attack Iraq but not North Korea? What is the real role of preemption? What is wrong with the tried-and-true concepts of deterrence?

If nothing else, the Bush Doctrine, articulated by the president over the past eighteen months in a series of speeches and encapsulated in the new National Security Strategy paper released in September, represents a reversal of course from Clinton-era policies in regard to the uses of U.S. power and, especially, military force. So perhaps it is no surprise that many Americans--and others in the rest of the world as well--are struggling to keep up with the changes. Indeed, it often appears that many in the administration cannot keep up with the president. But in fact the Bush Doctrine represents a return to the first principles of American security strategy. The Bush Doctrine also represents the realities of international politics in the post-cold-war, sole-superpower world. Further, the combination of these two factors--America's universal political principles and unprecedented global power and influence--make the Bush Doctrine a whole greater than the sum of its parts; it is likely to remain the basis for U.S. security strategy for decades to come.


Don't you guys listen to what YOUR President say?
 
N174UA
Posts: 860
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:17 pm

RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:43 pm



Quoting BN747 (Reply 17):
2) The 2nd torpedo was Gibson's question "Have traveled internationally aside from your troop visit to Iraq?"

Palin: Yeah...Canada and Mexico.

Barf! What??? Although, technically that is 'international'..yet in 21st Century terms of international travel that means usage of a passport (really going abroad)..everyone knows a vist to Tijuana (TJ) and Vancouver doesn't mean squat!

Another example of how Gov. Palin relates to most Americans...apart from those who live in Seattle, SF, LA, Chicago, DC, NY, and Miami....few Americans have visited more than 5 countries....the most common ones are.....Canada and Mexico.

I've lived on the west coast my whole life, and I have been to only 9 countries.

So...Barf! What are you babbling about? Most Americans can relate to her when she says she's only been to Canada and Mexico!
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:50 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 39):
Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 35):
That and the fact that she is so ready to go to war with Russia over Georgia? Does not fly with me.

I hope someone asks her how she thinks the second day of a war against Russia will go and where she will be during the first day.

That's not what she said. She said if Georgia or any Eastern European state were part of NATO and were attacked, the organization is bound to act on their behalf. She did not say War with Russia was the first option, but PART of the potential obligation towards a NATO member being attacked.

As far as the Bush Doctrine, it has continued to evolve. If the Bush Doctrine was valid, how come Iran isn't a smoldering ruin? It's not a fixed thing that you can ask someone about, it's highly interpretative.
 
OlegShv
Posts: 603
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RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:50 pm

I don't know if this link has already been posted here, but here it goes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/07/op....html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

I think it's a very interesting op-ed from NYT regarding Palin and McCain.
 
skyservice_330
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 6:50 am

RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:56 pm

Isn't the 'Bush Doctrine' just another name for the foreign policy positions developed by Bush and his executive? In which case, it isn't partisan at all..the reporter is asking a VP candidate about her views on the sitting Presidents policy positions.

Quoting TUNisia (Reply 22):
Wasilla City Hall...

It kind of looks like a convenience store.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 32):
The thread should have ended right after L188 posts this

Says who?

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 32):
Its a term born of the left wing intelligentsia and it sounds so good over a Latte. . Intelligentsia Who of course have a much better of Doctrine of Ignore until they attack .. then negotiate. Or better , give them what they want up front .. so they wont attack us.

Oh, those eeevvill lefty's and their tasty coffee based beverages. I'm surprised they had time to do this, in between controlling the media, Hollywood, bureaucracies and the courts.  Yeah sure
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:57 pm



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 36):
And very amusing, considering I would bet my mother that without exception (well, maybe with the exception of Baroque), no one else knew what the Bush Doctrine is and probably never heard of it before yesterday.

You'd lose your mother. A lot of people (including me) have known what the Bush Doctrine is for some time.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 33):
It's a term like Partial Birth Abortion, a politicized term without any real meaning.

It's not a specific term - the government never came out an officially established a "Bush Doctrine" as such. But it is used to refer to the strikingly different outlook on foreign policy that the US government has adopted during the Bush presidency.

It's just as legitimate as the Monroe Doctrine or the Truman Doctrine. And, as has been mentioned before, the term "Bush Doctrine" is not in itself a bad thing. It is what it is, and you can either agree with it or not. Just like the other Doctrines that other presidents have created.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 40):
can you point me to a definitive explanation from a solid source? Preferably a government source, but I'll accept one from a think-tank or other professional study.

http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.15845/pub_detail.asp

If you want to read the National Security Strategy paper that is the foundation of what is referred to as the Bush Doctrine, you can do so here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss.pdf

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
redflyer
Posts: 3882
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:57 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
You're asking for a precise answer to an imprecise issue.

Thank you. You just proved my point. Most doctrines (e.g., Monroe Doctrine, Trumen, Powell, etc.) have a pretty concise meaning.

Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
But don't hang your hat on the fact that it is imprecise - Palin should have known the basic premises of the doctrine.

And I believe she answered Gibson's question - pre-emption, chasing terrorists, etc.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 42):
Does Wiki not work for you? Now you are going to complain that it is recent plant. Sorry there it is not if you look at the history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Doctrine

Wiki works fine for me, my friend. But before cutting and pasting references en mass, you should take time to read some of those references. I don't believe any two are identical in their definition of the "Bush Doctrine".

There's a general consensus of what the "Bush Doctrine" means, but there is no precise definition as there have been with other doctrines in the past.

Could it be that Charles Gibson was actually trying to trip up Sarah Palin with some obscure concept? After all, everyone expected him to ask her who the leader was of Burkina Faso, which would have obviously revealed his motives. So why not ask her about something obscure, but very "official" sounding?  scratchchin 
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
mbmbos
Posts: 2568
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 4:16 am

RE: Palin Doesn’t Know What The Bush Doctrine Is

Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:57 pm



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 40):
Preferably a government source...

This is getting tedious and ridiculous. A foreign policy doctrine is established when a president and his administration states the principles behind a set of actions that have been or will be taken. It's not a notarized document and it's not entered into any official book of laws.

The notion that the Bush doctrine is unclear is pretty silly. Bush and his staff of neoconservatives were very disciplined in communicating consistently their reasons for going to war, at least before the war began. To pretend that there is no Bush Doctrine or that a competent politician would not be able to clearly know what an interviewer was talking about when he referred to the Bush Doctrine is disingenuous.

Furthermore, it is clear from the interview that Palin wasn't questioning the lack of a doctrine; she was just a moose in the headlights who had no concept of the underpinning principles behind Bush's march to war. She even asked Charlie Rose for a hint:

"In what respect, Charlie?"

Palin might be fit for the position of Vice President...of a high school student council. But it's very obvious that she is shallow and lacking in intellect and experience.

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