kaitak
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Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:56 pm

A transsexual former special forces commander has won an important anti-discrimination case, against the US Library of Congress, which withdrew an offer of employment when it discovered that the applicant was going through gender reassignment.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/09/19/transsexual.discrimination/

This is a very important case, particularly in light of the fact that the proposed US anti-discrimination legislation, ENDA, will not provide any protection for transsexuals (and indeed, significantly, the defendant's attorneys in this case raised the fact that there was no anti- discrimination legislation protecting TS people). It is unacceptable that clearly able people, willing to contribute and capable of doing so in a wide variety of areas, can simply be cast aside due to the prejudices of others. Let's hope this case is accepted as a leading precedent in this field.

Whatever one may think about transsexuals - and clearly many people have a negative view, it is very important that no one should be a "safe target" for discrimination.
 
johnboy
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:10 pm

Excellent news.
More power to her.
 bigthumbsup 
 
UAL747
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:12 pm

I don't see why people have issues with Transgender. Most transgendered people do it because they have a deep rooted sense that they are not supposed to be either a male, or female, depending of course on what sex they are before their operations.

They don't do it for fun, like piercing your nose.

So much discrimination goes on in this country based on the fear that we are all going to turn into psycho sex killers that rape 4 year olds. At least that is what some would have you believe.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Blackbird
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:37 pm

UAL747,

Very good point.


Blackbird
 
jmc1975
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:45 pm

Hmmm....well unfortunately this just sets a precedent for things to come. Before you know it, rapists and murders will be getting off scott free because some of these socially enlightened new-era judges will dismiss their actions as merely personal expression.
.......
 
UAL747
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:53 pm



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 4):
Hmmm....well unfortunately this just sets a precedent for things to come

How does chopping your own penis off, turning it into a vagina, and taking hormones to grow breast have anything to do with hurting someone else, intentionally, without their consent?

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
jmc1975
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:30 pm



Quoting Ual747 (Reply 5):
How does chopping your own penis off, turning it into a vagina, and taking hormones to grow breast have anything to do with hurting someone else, intentionally, without their consent?

My point exactly.  Smile It's become a viscious cycle and a downward spiral.
.......
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:36 pm

Back in the late 70's / early 80's Eastern had a Captain that underwent a sex change without notifying Eastern ahead of time. Once he had the surgery done he let the airline know about it. Of course EA fired him right then and there saying that she was no longer the person the airline hired. So the now she filed a discrimination lawsuit against EA stating that she was in fact the same person they had hired and while her sex changed, her skill set didn't. It took many years in the courtroom but in the end the complaintant won. I think she got to fly a few flights with EA before they folded. But the other pilots didn't like it.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
Blackbird
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:44 pm

Jmc1975,

I don't understand... how would any of those things which would NOT hurt anybody else intentionally without consent become a vicious cycle and downward spiral?


Blackbird
 
kaitak
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:59 pm



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 8):
I don't understand... how would any of those things which would NOT hurt anybody else intentionally without consent become a vicious cycle and downward spiral?

As far as I'm concerned, the downward cycle begins when we allow people with small, closed minds to use religion and "morality" as an excuse to shut certain people out of society, to deny them protection or dignity or the same basic rights as everyone else has to participate in and benefit from society.

Society gains from diversity; it doesn't lose. It loses when it allows the small-minded and censorious to run roughshod over its principles and attempt to decide who should and should not have access to the basic protections and dignity afforded as a result of being a citizen of a free society.
 
PSA53
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:01 pm



Quoting Ual747 (Reply 2):
I don't see why people have issues with Transgender.

It's a "shock to the system" in which many cannot accept or conform to it automatically.I do not on a personal basis agree to sex changes,but what one do to him/her is their decision but understand they're stepping on toes, too.Let's be real about it.






.
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
UAL747
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:09 pm



Quoting PSA53 (Reply 10):
but what one do to him/her is their decision but understand they're stepping on toes, too.Let's be real about it.

So next time Pamela Anderson augments her breasts or Joan Rivers gets another facelift, they are stepping on toes?

The persons SSN doubtfully changes, and in the US you ARE allowed to change your name to whatever you want, how are they stepping on any toes? Because they freak you out? And they aren't hurting anyone, and they deserve to have equal protection under the law, male or female, or both.

You can give a reason ANYONE shouldn't have equal protection or ANY reason why ANYONE could be stepping on people's toes. Most of us know quite a lot about airplanes, but are we stepping on toes because we know what flap setting is used on a 777 for landing? Does that make us possibly criminals for possibly flying planes into buildings? (Though I hear flaps up/clean wing is the best way to do this).

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
midcon385
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:18 pm



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 9):
As far as I'm concerned, the downward cycle begins when we allow people with small, closed minds to use religion and "morality" as an excuse to shut certain people out of society, to deny them protection or dignity or the same basic rights as everyone else has to participate in and benefit from society.

Society gains from diversity; it doesn't lose. It loses when it allows the small-minded and censorious to run roughshod over its principles and attempt to decide who should and should not have access to the basic protections and dignity afforded as a result of being a citizen of a free society.

I agree 100%.

Tim
MidContinent Airlines: We Know How To Fly!
 
PSA53
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:32 pm



Quoting Ual747 (Reply 11):
Because they freak you out? And they aren't hurting anyone, and they deserve to have equal protection under the law, male or female, or both.

You can't tell me that they didn't weigh the consequences of their decision.Or,are they that naive and igornart that all of us were expected to take this as normal.Friends,parents and employer?They knew what the reactions were going to be.
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:44 pm



Quoting PSA53 (Reply 10):
I do not on a personal basis agree to sex changes,but what one do to him/her is their decision but understand they're stepping on toes, too.Let's be real about it.

No, they're not.

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 13):
You can't tell me that they didn't weigh the consequences of their decision.Or,are they that naive and igornart that all of us were expected to take this as normal.Friends,parents and employer?They knew what the reactions were going to be.

So what? They cannot and do not control your (or anyone else's) reactions. They're not stepping on toes - you're planting your foot right where they're about to step.

Think about that for awhile.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
PSA53
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:07 pm



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 14):
Quoting PSA53 (Reply 10):
I do not on a personal basis agree to sex changes,but what one do to him/her is their decision but understand they're stepping on toes, too.Let's be real about it.

No, they're not.

Well.I spoke my peace.Like in reply7,EA,as exampled,hired him.Not her. Employers would have a trouble with this issue.

If I were the judge,and it was the law to protect the defendant,then I applaud it.My personal feelings don't count.But society's reaction is a another matter.
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
N867DA
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:28 pm



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 6):
It's become a viscious cycle and a downward spiral.

...what spiral?
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
UAL747
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:48 pm



Quoting PSA53 (Reply 15):
Well.I spoke my peace.Like in reply7,EA,as exampled,hired him.Not her. Employers would have a trouble with this issue.

According to sexual discrimination laws, that the US Government probably has in place, they can't hire a man over a woman just because he's a man. Or vice versa. So in the EA case, it should have been a non-issue since the person has the exact same CAPABILITIES that EA hired her for. I think it has more to do with people not being open-minded enough to have a professional working relationship with a trangendered person. And whoever those people are, I sure hope they are not concentrating what's beneath the pants of pilots and instead trying to line that L-1011 up on approach.

I fail to see how having a transgendered person working for you would hurt your company in any way. Unless you want to start pulling those "Christian values" from your rear end.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:11 pm



Quoting Ual747 (Reply 17):
I fail to see how having a transgendered person working for you would hurt your company in any way. Unless you want to start pulling those "Christian values" from your rear end.

Remember this case was in the late 70's, early 80's. People had a much different train of thought back then.
Another issue is who is willing to fly with a transexual? Pilots are a pretty straight minded bunch, especially back then. Most of them are ex-military. If you are a pilot and other pilots don't want to fly with you it causes "problems". Eventually the Chief Pilot will investigate why a certain pilot has other pilots that won't fly with them. It's much easier to get rid of the problem than getting rid of the effect if you get my drift.
For those interested here is a link to the Eastern Lawsuitt.....

http://www.transgenderlaw.org/cases/ulane.htm
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
PSA53
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:17 pm



Quoting Ual747 (Reply 17):
According to sexual discrimination laws, that the US Government probably has in place, they can't hire a man over a woman just because he's a man

And discrimination against women was still a major issue in those days.

Quoting Ual747 (Reply 17):
I think it has more to do with people not being open-minded enough to have a professional working relationship with a trangendered person

And the natural human reaction of Bill becoming Billie.(Sounds like a Lou Reed Song)(LOL).
It's not close minded but sudden shock.Will it work itself out by his/her associates.Good question?Are they at fault and can be held accountable?No,IMHO.

Quoting Ual747 (Reply 17):
d whoever those people are, I sure hope they are not concentrating what's beneath the pants of pilots and instead trying to line that L-1011 up on approach.

Agreed.
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:18 pm



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 4):
Hmmm....well unfortunately this just sets a precedent for things to come. Before you know it, rapists and murders will be getting off scott free because some of these socially enlightened new-era judges will dismiss their actions as merely personal expression.

Violent crime is never "personal expression". Only a deranged person would think so. Stop making things up.

Quoting N867DA (Reply 16):
...what spiral?

Exactly.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
jmc1975
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:54 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 20):
Violent crime is never "personal expression". Only a deranged person would think so.

That's why wise choices need to be made when making upcoming judge selections.
.......
 
UAL747
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:00 am



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 21):
That's why wise choices need to be made when making upcoming judge selections.

???

I think what people are telling you is that there's a HUGE difference between a transgendered person than a murderer. Giving a trangendered equal rights with other humans shouldn't be discouraged. It does no harm to anyone else.

How does this person, or any person say at your company affect your ability to do your job or your company to do theirs?

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
jmc1975
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:19 am

Quoting Ual747 (Reply 22):
I think what people are telling you is that there's a HUGE difference between a transgendered person than a murderer. Giving a trangendered equal rights with other humans shouldn't be discouraged. It does no harm to anyone else.

I agree. But what we can't afford to overlook here is the overwhelming trajectory taking place in our society that has and will continue to blur the lines. What may or may not be perceived as harm has changed dramatically over the past few decades... just look at abortion. Back in the 50s & 60s, it was unconscionable to the vast majority of society to murder an unborn child...now, it's becoming widely accepted as a "choice". What guarantee is there to stop us from eventually being forced to accept murder or rape as a "choice" made by someone who may have been disadvantaged or had a rough go at life?

[Edited 2008-09-20 17:21:36]
.......
 
yfbflyer
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:29 am



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 23):
just look at abortion. Back in the 50s & 60s

Abortion was around way before the 50's and 60's.
 
mham001
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:30 am



Quoting Ual747 (Reply 5):

How does chopping your own penis off, turning it into a vagina, and taking hormones to grow breast have anything to do with hurting someone else, intentionally, without their consent?

Certainly nothing, but an employer might want to consider the mental stability of one who would do that.
 
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akiss20
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:33 am



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 23):
Back in the 50s & 60s, it was unconscionable to the vast majority of society to murder an unborn child...now, it's becoming widely accepted as a "choice". What guarantee is there to stop us from eventually being forced to accept murder or rape as a "choice" made by someone who may have been disadvantaged or had a rough go at life?

Actually, back in the 50s, abortions happened all the time, just not legally. Instead they were done in back allies with a coat hanger, or by the woman herself (throwing themselves down stairs, starving themselves all in an attempt for a miscarriage). As abortion rights increased, statistics on abortion became easier to get and more reliable hence the "increase" in abortion since the 50s. You can't get accurate data when you ask a person to admit to something a)illegal b)something that is not "discussed."
Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are
 
Mir
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:39 am



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 23):
What guarantee is there to stop us from eventually being forced to accept murder or rape as a "choice" made by someone who may have been disadvantaged or had a rough go at life?

You are comparing rape and murder, which inflict physical harm on an unwilling victim, with a sex change, which does not. Your slippery slope is a fallacy.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
jmc1975
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:49 am

Quoting Yfbflyer (Reply 25):
Abortion was around way before the 50's and 60's.

 checkmark It's been around since the beginning of time, but it didn't start getting the socially acceptable, even glamorous "choice" stigma until after Roe v. Wade in 1973.


Quoting Mir (Reply 27):
Your slippery slope is a fallacy.

Can you guarantee that as a fact? Or is that simply what you choose to believe?

[Edited 2008-09-20 18:01:08]
.......
 
Mir
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:19 am



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 28):
Can you guarantee that as a fact? Or is that simply what you choose to believe?

I cannot guarantee that it isn't. But you can't guarantee that it is. What I can guarantee, however, is that you will find more people who agree with me than with you.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
jmc1975
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:00 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 29):
What I can guarantee, however, is that you will find more people who agree with me than with you.

It's not about how many people you can get to agree with you, but rather it's more about the deterioration of society and whether or not society is aware of the downward spiral taking place. Will we be vigilant enough to overcome the impending disarray? That's what we must ask ourselves.
.......
 
UAL747
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:07 am



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 28):
even glamorous "choice"

I don't think any woman thinks "Hey, you know what would go great with this Gucci purse? A big fat abortion." Most women experience severe depression after an abortion...

However, there are some (usually trashy, wouldn't call it glamorous) women that do it all the time.

I'm pro-choice, but there's nothing glamorous about it, and I think most women would agree with me.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Mir
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:08 am



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 30):
it's more about the deterioration of society and whether or not society is aware of the downward spiral taking place. Will we be vigilant enough to overcome the impending disarray? That's what we must ask ourselves.

You say that there is a downward spiral taking place. You cannot prove that to be true. I'm sorry, but despite what strong fundamentalist views you may have, the strong majority of people in this society believe that people having sex changes is not an indication of impending societal disarray.

What makes you so sure that it is you who is right and not them?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
jmc1975
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:35 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 31):
What makes you so sure that it is you who is right and not them?

As ridiculous and radical as this may sound, we will all see one day who is right and who is wrong, and with great comfort, I look forward to that day.  Smile

Quoting Ual747 (Reply 32):
Most women experience severe depression after an abortion...

However, there are some (usually trashy, wouldn't call it glamorous) women that do it all the time.

I couldn't agree with you more. However, this unglamorous and destructive "choice" is in fact being slowly and increasingly glamorized by society. Once you set the precedent to murder an unborn baby, what's the next step? We'll eventually see a widely accepted view point that all kinds murder is OK. Keep in mind that an unwanted pregnancy gets in the way of people's agendas... and by the same token, other people get in the way of people's agendas. Who's to say it's OK to kill an unborn baby who has not had the choice to make any decisions...and in the same breath, call it murder when an adult, who has the choice to make one's life miserable, is killed?
.......
 
UAL747
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:38 am



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 33):
nce you set the precedent to murder an unborn baby, what's the next step? We'll eventually see a widely accepted view point that all kinds murder is OK.

Once you set the precedent that blacks can use the same public restrooms as whites, what's the next step? Murder is okay?

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
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jetmech
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:21 am



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 23):
What guarantee is there to stop us from eventually being forced to accept murder or rape as a "choice" made by someone who may have been disadvantaged or had a rough go at life?

I think this excuse, and the insanity plea has already been used by many people in an attempt to get lighter treatment after they have committed murder. How many of these people were transsexual's  Confused . What has gender re-assignment got to do with murder  Confused

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 33):
and by the same token, other people get in the way of people's agendas.

Like Christian fundamentalists that get so worked up about the lifestyle choices of others when those choices have no effect on their own lives whatsoever?

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 30):
Will we be vigilant enough to overcome the impending disarray?

You mean the dangerous mixing of religious fundamentalism and politics?

Regards, JetMech
JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair :shock: .
 
HowSwedeitis
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:45 am



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 4):

Many people who have a serious problem with transgendered persons usually have some issues of their own... Is there something you would like to tell us JMC?  Wink

Quoting Mir (Reply 27):
Your slippery slope is a fallacy.

 checkmark 

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 30):
the deterioration of society and whether or not society is aware of the downward spiral taking place.

I know! Blacks get to drink at the same water fountain! I hate the fact that we have all these "civil rights!" This damn deterioration of our society... More personal freedoms, a strengthened first amendment! Argh! What a downward spiral!!  irked   sarcastic 

-HSII
Heja Sverige!!
 
Mir
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:47 am



Quoting JetMech (Reply 36):
Like Christian fundamentalists that get so worked up about the lifestyle choices of others when those choices have no effect on their own lives whatsoever?

 checkmark  One of the best examples of getting in the way of other people's agendas that they really have no business getting in the way of.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
N867DA
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:06 am

Like it or not, you don't get to choose the morals of future generations. What your kids (and their kids) believe and what you believe will almost certainly be very very different. We're on a slippery slope right now. And you know what? Your dad was on it, and his dad was on it, and his dad was on it, and his dad was on it...and so on and so forth. These attitude changes aren't happening overnight. People (regardless of intelligence, education, etc) have thought about what they are willing to accept in each other and they will act according to that.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
Dougloid
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:05 am



Quoting JetMech (Reply 35):
Like Christian fundamentalists that get so worked up about the lifestyle choices of others when those choices have no effect on their own lives whatsoever?

That's as may be, but you and I both know that the religion that lays claim to the greatest store of intolerance the world has yet seen doesn't have a cross on the lawn.

Folks, before you break out the champagne, bear in mind that this was not a disposition of the case and it is not as the OP suggested a victory except that Schroer lives to fight another day. All it means is that the plaintiff survived a 12(b)(6) motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim on which relief can be granted.

The plaintiff survived the very first skirmish in what promises to be an uphill battle. Here's a link to the opinion.

http://www.aele.org/law/2008FPFEB/schroer-billington.html
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Mir
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:12 am



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 39):
you and I both know that the religion that lays claim to the greatest store of intolerance the world has yet seen doesn't have a cross on the lawn.

The religion that tries the most in the United States to put its fingers where they shouldn't be does.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:24 am



Quoting N867DA (Reply 38):
Like it or not, you don't get to choose the morals of future generations. What your kids (and their kids) believe and what you believe will almost certainly be very very different. We're on a slippery slope right now. And you know what? Your dad was on it, and his dad was on it, and his dad was on it, and his dad was on it...and so on and so forth. These attitude changes aren't happening overnight. People (regardless of intelligence, education, etc) have thought about what they are willing to accept in each other and they will act according to that.

That's about the most logical post I've seen in this thread.

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 33):
As ridiculous and radical as this may sound, we will all see one day who is right and who is wrong, and with great comfort, I look forward to that day.

Be smug about it if you want to. Many of the rest of us probably don't particularly care whether you are comforted about it or not, beyond the fact that the smugness is pretty annoying.

I am, however, reminded of a line from "To Kill A Mockingbird" (quoting approximately...too lazy to go find it and look it up):

"Some people are so worried about the next life that they've never learned to live in this one."

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 24):
Certainly nothing, but an employer might want to consider the mental stability of one who would do that.

They might want to consider the mental stability of someone who drinks Pepsi and then switches to Coke, too.

Or even better, an atheist who becomes a born-again Christian, or what have you.

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 19):
And the natural human reaction of Bill becoming Billie.(Sounds like a Lou Reed Song)(LOL).
It's not close minded but sudden shock.Will it work itself out by his/her associates.Good question?Are they at fault and can be held accountable?No,IMHO.

Your personal feelings should not get in the way of business decisions. There are plenty of people I've worked with whom I haven't particularly liked, but I recognize the fact that they're good at their jobs.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
IHadAPheo
Posts: 5499
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 3:26 pm

RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:31 pm



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 30):
It's not about how many people you can get to agree with you, but rather it's more about the deterioration of society and whether or not society is aware of the downward spiral taking place. Will we be vigilant enough to overcome the impending disarray? That's what we must ask ourselves.

You are 100% correct, there is a deterioration of society.The number of people who think that only their point of view on a given issue is correct. The same can be said of the growing number of people who think solely in black in white, to them there is no middle ground on an issue no compromise only their myopic view that they wish force upon everyone.

The downward spiral continues with their opinion that we must all be the same to avoid disarray, that we must all be placid, happy, obedient, and most important of all identical sheep to be "proper" members of the pious society.

Yes their is a growing deterioration in today's world sadly in many cases that evil hides behind a vision of self righteousness the offers the one "true way" for all to live (no matter if "all" are of the same opinion.

Yes we must be vigilant, however we must be vigilant to prevent the radical myopic fringe from turning this country into a place that makes "Leave It To Beaver" look like "Sex In The City"

IHAP

Oh look a bunny.. a haughty bunny that wants to rule in world in his pure whit image, where we all can be happy and eat carrots
Pray hard but pray with care For the tears that you are crying now Are just your answered prayers
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:13 pm



Quoting PSA53 (Reply 15):
...Employers would have a trouble with this issue.

I disagree. There are chinese airlines that have a lot of FA's who are male-to-female transsexuals. And the chinese airlines know about it, and see no problem with it.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:36 pm



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 21):
That's why wise choices need to be made when making upcoming judge selections.

Why? So they can conform to your bigoted ideology as opposed to acting, as they always have, as a check on tyranical majoritarianism and in defense of constitutionalism?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
misbeehavin
Posts: 607
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:49 am

RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:08 pm



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 21):
That's why wise choices need to be made when making upcoming judge selections.

Why? So they can turn the country into your bigoted, narrow minded perception of what the world should be like? Sh'yeah... You can keep dreaming!
 
Mir
Posts: 19093
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:37 pm



Quoting PSA53 (Reply 15):
EA,as exampled,hired him.Not her.

EA hired a pilot. Doesn't matter what gender the pilot is as long as they have the skills that EA needs. That's what equal opportunity employment is about.

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 15):
Employers would have a trouble with this issue.

They shouldn't. If they do, the problem is on their end, not the employee's.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
sbworcs
Posts: 667
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:19 pm

RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:50 pm



Quoting PSA53 (Reply 10):
but understand they're stepping on toes

Who's toes?

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 15):
Employers would have a trouble with this issue.

We have a pre-op transexual at our head office - no one has any problems as far as I am aware. They still work for us and have been promoted since telling the company.

People that are transsexual ares surely not just doing this on a whim. They have a deep seated feeling that they are the wrong gender. To others is becomes and issue but that is only because it goes against what they see as right and wrong.

Trassexulas have every right to live life to the fill without the fear the they can be legally discriminitated against and to say that allowing them rights is one step above say murderers and rapists are OK is just disugsting and an insult to the people whose lives are already very difficult because of societies existing prejudices
The best way forwards is upwards!
 
PSA53
Posts: 2928
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:54 pm

RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:13 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 46):
Quoting PSA53 (Reply 15):
Employers would have a trouble with this issue.

They shouldn't. If they do, the problem is on their end, not the employee's.

Yes there would.Employees may have psychological effect if a transgender changed while employed,meaning(Example) David is dead,and now the employees are asked to adjust to Diane new profile.It is profound change.And is the employer liable?No,IMHO. Families and friends,too.Are they liable for Diane's decision to change.I don't think so.And I believe the courts have a responsibility to weigh this,as well.

But in this case,in the article,Diana was applying for employment with a new employer which should have no effect.I agree with the decision.
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
PSA53
Posts: 2928
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:54 pm

RE: Transsexual Wins Discrimination Case In US

Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:23 pm

[

Quoting Sbworcs (Reply 47):
Quoting PSA53 (Reply 15):
Employers would have a trouble with this issue.

We have a pre-op transexual at our head office - no one has any problems as far as I am aware. They still work for us and have been promoted since telling the company.

Did the transsexual have the change during employment?If not,there should be no problem in the workplace.If so,did the employer conduct awareness meetings to properly inform the rest of the employee force?
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.

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