Dazed767
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16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:07 pm

http://www.wftv.com/news/17590034/detail.html

Alan Michael Tanguay, 16, is accused of killing and nearly decapitating his neighbor. He was arrested for allegedly killing Patricia Kaliszeski Friday night while trying to steal $6 from her home for beer money.

F'ing unreal!! I hope he never see's the light of day again!
 
MCOflyer
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:20 pm

Very sad. I hope he gets mental help and the death penalty or life in prison. I am very ashamed that someone would do that for $6 freaking dollars. Either hes insane or mentally ill.

Hunter
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QXatFAT
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:04 pm

This is sad and discusting. The thing that popped into my head is the murder that happend in my town in California earlyer this year. A teenager killed another over a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship.

http://maderatribune.com/news/newsview.asp?c=234080
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UAL747
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:31 pm



Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 1):
Very sad. I hope he gets mental help and the death penalty or life in prison. I am very ashamed that someone would do that for $6 freaking dollars. Either hes insane or mentally ill.

LOL, how's Mental help and the death penalty going to do him any good? Life in prison perhaps he'd get some mental help, but no reason to condition him to go back into society.

He's a minor, and he won't get much time for this I doubt, unless he's tried as an adult, which seems to be up in the air at this point.

UAL
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AirframeAS
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:33 pm

Just out of curiosity.... what was the $6 supposed to be for??
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IHadAPheo
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:36 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 4):
Just out of curiosity.... what was the $6 supposed to be for??

As stated in the thread starter and in the link

Quoting Dazed767 (Thread starter):
He was arrested for allegedly killing Patricia Kaliszeski Friday night while trying to steal $6 from her home for beer money.

IHAP

He needed a few 40 oz ers
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UAL747
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:38 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 4):
what was the $6 supposed to be for??

Beer... He must have been having the DT's. It happens. DT's can do crazy things to a person you know.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
AirframeAS
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:40 pm



Quoting Ihadapheo (Reply 5):
As stated in the thread starter and in the link

My bad. I missed that part.
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MCOflyer
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:49 pm



Quoting Ual747 (Reply 3):

He's a minor, and he won't get much time for this I doubt, unless he's tried as an adult, which seems to be up in the air at this point.

Per my local news paper:

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbc...80930/NEWS01/809300325/1009/news03

If hes killed other people like hes claimed, then he will most likely be tried as an adult.

Hunter
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ANITIX87
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:16 am

Why does the name sound so familiar???

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N1120A
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:30 am



Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 1):
I hope he gets mental help and the death penalty or life in prison.

Mental help and the death penalty? Ever heard of not guilty by reason of insanity?
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MaidensGator
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:35 am



Quoting Ual747 (Reply 3):
He's a minor, and he won't get much time for this I doubt, unless he's tried as an adult, which seems to be up in the air at this point.

In Florida he'll get 25 to life at a minimum... And he'll do at least 25...
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
TheCol
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:22 am



Quoting Maidensgator (Reply 12):

His parents should keep him company.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
ag92
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:03 am

If I was a judge, I would not give him a death sentance or a life sentance rather I think it would really help if you give him some sort of mental therapy or some other sort of classes to try and get over his problem and maybe many years in jail but certainly not for life
 
LHboyatDTW
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:23 am

That is crazy. Putting the fact that he claimed to have murdered others aside, he could easily get a job flipping burgers or whatever physically demanding job for an hour and get more than that.

The crazy things people do to get money sheesh.  Yeah sure
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DocLightning
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:36 am

Well, let's see. He's a HS drop-out who just killed someone for beer money.

Now, teenagers are not exactly known for their exceptional decision-making skills. They often do stupid things in the heat of the moment because their brains are not mature enough to make the same intelligent, adult decisions that they ARE capable of making in less heated conditions. And this is why teenagers sometimes do stupid stuff like this.

That said, the vast majority of teenagers manage to get through their teen years without murdering. Basically, my theory is that this kid appears to have been born with a bad brain. There's no cure for it. Mental help isn't going to help fix a defective brain.

My view is that in cases like this, the defendant should be permitted to choose between life in prison and the death penalty.
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Blackbird
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:40 am

DocLightning,

Teenagers also tend to be rather unempathetic compared to adults as well.


Blackbird
 
md80fanatic
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:12 am



Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 1):
I am very ashamed that someone would do that for $6 freaking dollars.


The money doesn't make it any more heinous. There should be no amount that would necessitate killing.....especially one's own mother.

Eye for an eye......
 
N1120A
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:53 am



Quoting TheCol (Reply 12):
His parents should keep him company.

What a terrible idea. Perhaps we should jail all his teachers now? Or his neighbors? The kid is sick in the head so we should punish his parents, just for being his parents?

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 17):
Eye for an eye......

Makes the Whole World Go Blind - Mohandas K. Gandhi
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md80fanatic
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:59 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 17):
Eye for an eye......

Makes the Whole World Go Blind - Mohandas K. Gandhi

"Don't do the crime if you can't do the time" - Dano, Hawaii 5-0
 
N1120A
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:02 am



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 19):
"Don't do the crime if you can't do the time" - Dano, Hawaii 5-0

Doing time has nothing to do with that quote. Then again, a fictitious character from a TV show isn't exactly the man who helped liberate an entire sub-continent by making salt and fasting.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
md80fanatic
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:22 am

Okay, now you have forced my hand......

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...y.php?storyId=95037166&ft=1&f=1004

Obviously his famous words have had little real impact on Indian society. This is not an isolated example either. Noble and Idealistic words, but the original speaker is only human (not a Deity, who coined "eye for an eye"). This is wisdom far older (and more common sensical IMO) than anything envisioned since.

Ghandi assumes all people can do nothing but poke eyes out....that none can resist the temptation to do wrong. I don't believe that. Some do rise above the heartless cruelty that some inflict.
 
Blackbird
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:42 am

MD80fanatic,

The eye for an eye tooth for a tooth thing largely descended off of Hammurabi's code. That predated the Old Testament.


Blackbird
 
md80fanatic
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:57 am

The exact time a saying is first conceived/uttered is always before the first time it was recorded in writing. The concept is far older than any book.
 
Blackbird
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:01 am

MD80fanatic,

Well, that's true. I'm glad you realized though that the concept predates any book including the Bible.


Blackbird
 
md80fanatic
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:07 am

Oh sure I realize it. Look, I don't worship a book or attach any special importance to the actual physical object. The concepts contained therein, as verified by me using -gut- feeling and logic, are those I try to incorporate into everyday life. I won't ever swing one at you either.
 


Going back to Ghandi if I may.....

If a murderer deserves a punishment quite a bit less extreme than "eye for an eye", the sector of people who would kill only if they knew for certain they would not be killed in retribution would be emboldened and more likely to kill. There isn't much to dissuade a determined and angry killer when the most they can expect is life in prison, if caught.

This makes the world even more dangerous for the innocent.

[Edited 2008-10-01 01:22:14]
 
johns624
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:37 pm



Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 9):
Why does the name sound so familiar???

Alex Tanguay-NHL hockey player?

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 17):
especially one's own mother.

It was the next door neighbor.
 
ANITIX87
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:20 pm



Quoting Johns624 (Reply 26):
Alex Tanguay-NHL hockey player?

Maybe, but the whole name rings the hypothetical bell.

Alan Michael Tanguay....very bizarre.

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N1120A
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:30 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 21):

Ghandi assumes all people can do nothing but poke eyes out....that none can resist the temptation to do wrong.

That has nothing to do with it.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 21):
Some do rise above the heartless cruelty that some inflict.

Not those who then inflict the same upon them.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 25):

If a murderer deserves a punishment quite a bit less extreme than "eye for an eye", the sector of people who would kill only if they knew for certain they would not be killed in retribution would be emboldened and more likely to kill. There isn't much to dissuade a determined and angry killer when the most they can expect is life in prison, if caught.

It has become blatantly obvious that the death penalty is anything but an effective deterrent.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
A332
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:38 pm



Quoting Ag92 (Reply 13):
If I was a judge, I would not give him a death sentance or a life sentance rather I think it would really help if you give him some sort of mental therapy or some other sort of classes to try and get over his problem and maybe many years in jail but certainly not for life

Yeah, let's go ahead and encourage more lunatics to walk the streets under the presumption that they have simply lost their way... people like John Couey come to mind.

He should fry.
Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
 
md80fanatic
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:38 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
It has become blatantly obvious that the death penalty is anything but an effective deterrent.

I can't speak for you....but it certainly deters me.

If you believe as you state, then you must also believe that Mutually Assured Destruction is not an effective deterrent? Are governments supreme beings that can be trusted with the big red button, while individuals cannot practice the same proven preventive measures on their own smaller playing field?
 
N1120A
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:20 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 30):

I can't speak for you....but it certainly deters me.

I would assume you were not predisposed to this sort of thing in the first place. That said, the vast majority of research shows that the death penalty is not an effective deterrent.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 30):

If you believe as you state, then you must also believe that Mutually Assured Destruction is not an effective deterrent?

Two totally different things.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
md80fanatic
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:44 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 31):
I would assume you were not predisposed to this sort of thing in the first place. That said, the vast majority of research shows that the death penalty is not an effective deterrent.

I'd never personally kill other than to prevent me being killed, and that is natural to all of us.
And I don't believe the research you consider the vast majority. An anti-death penalty agenda is obvious if the research is to be believed valid. Any other explanation is illogical. We can disagree and that's no big deal.  Smile


Quoting N1120A (Reply 31):
Two totally different things.

Exactly the same, they both are.

From the perspective of a country contemplating a nuclear first strike (individual considering murder).....knowing for certain a massive first strike (gunshot to temples) will 100% result in a nuclear wasteland at home (also gunshot to temples).

The only individuals that do not find this as a deterent are clearly insane (that's why it works). With eye for an eye, most of those who would still murder would necessarily be insane and probably deserving of a little treatment prior to busting rocks till the end of their days. Theoretically (in my little world) the use of the death penalty should decrease under an eye for an eye system. And that is what both of us really want...if I am understanding you correctly.

A proportional slap-on-the-wrist will certainly only invite those who'd normally be deterred to re-consider their chances. Why isn't that clear.......Am I taking crazy pills?
 
N1120A
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:50 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 32):
And I don't believe the research you consider the vast majority.

Um, why? Probably the best evidence of why you are dead wrong is that Texas has an above average murder rate despite having the highest execution rate by far.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 32):
We can disagree and that's no big deal.

It IS a big deal because we end up with a completely hypocritical stance

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 32):

Exactly the same, they both are.

Except, of course, scale. Not to mention the fact that very different people commit person on person murders than those who have their proverbial fingers on the button.
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AirframeAS
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:53 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
...Texas has an above average murder rate...

Doesn't Texas have the highest murder rates in the U.S.?? (Not including state sponsored executions.)
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A332
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:57 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 31):
That said, the vast majority of research shows that the death penalty is not an effective deterrent.

What do you believe would be an effective deterrent?

I personally believe the appeals process is too long. The death penalty needs to be carried out far quicker, especially in cases where there is no doubt the accused is 100% guilty.
Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
 
N1120A
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:03 pm

You know, this whole death penalty debate is moot anyway, seeing that 16 year old offenders cannot be executed.

Quoting A332 (Reply 35):

What do you believe would be an effective deterrent?

Increase in education and reduction in poverty.

Quoting A332 (Reply 35):

I personally believe the appeals process is too long.

Then you apparently think the Constitution should be thrown out.

Quoting A332 (Reply 35):
The death penalty needs to be carried out far quicker, especially in cases where there is no doubt the accused is 100% guilty.

There is never a case where there is "no doubt"
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
md80fanatic
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:56 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
Um, why? Probably the best evidence of why you are dead wrong is that Texas has an above average murder rate despite having the highest execution rate by far.

The numbers you site include the addition of murders committed by illegals that have streamed across continually for years. Illegals are not put to death as far as I know. The yearly statistics would be more accurate had they only considered murders of citizens by other citizens.

Statistics can very easily be made to appear to support any point you wish to front. Living here though gives one a clearer perspective.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
Except, of course, scale.

In my example, scale cancels out very early.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 34):
Doesn't Texas have the highest murder rates in the U.S.?? (Not including state sponsored executions.)

See above.....
 
TylerDurden
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:00 pm



Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 1):
I hope he gets mental help and the death penalty

Not the sharpest crayon in the box.
 
N1120A
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:08 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 37):

In my example, scale cancels out very early.

No it doesn't. Your own personal fear of the death penalty doesn't bear on the rest of society. Further, the vast majority of people don't kill others because they know the difference between wrong and right, not because they are afraid of getting killed by the state.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 37):
The numbers you site include the addition of murders committed by illegals that have streamed across continually for years. Illegals are not put to death as far as I know.

You are just making stuff up now. The murder rates in California and Texas are similar despite California's much more sparing use of the death penalty and even larger undocumented population. Ever more staggering is that every single state that has 1) no death penalty, 2) death penalty declared unconstitutional or 3) death penalty not carried out since 1976 (the the DP was reinstated) has a lower homicide rate than those states.
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TheCol
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:10 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Perhaps we should jail all his teachers now? Or his neighbors?

Why? It wasn't their job to raise him.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
The kid is sick in the head

And you know this how? Last time I checked, you weren't a certified Psychiatrist.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:22 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 39):
Further, the vast majority of people don't kill others because they know the difference between wrong and right, not because they are afraid of getting killed by the state.

So you are saying the vast majority are insane rather than not? You only get away with this "statistic" by expanding largely the accepted definition of insane.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 39):
You are just making stuff up now.

Nope.....not this time. I will append a  Wink if I am joshin' ya'  Smile

Quoting N1120A (Reply 39):
The murder rates in California and Texas are similar despite California's much more sparing use of the death penalty and even larger undocumented population.

Most of CA illegals are from Baja, Texas' from the mainland. Where is the majority of major drug smuggling from Mexico proper and further south? Where are the majority mexican gang wars occurring as we speak? It's Texas. Really you cannot broadly compare different regions of Mexico as you cannot fairly compare people from Massachusetts to those from Louisiana,
 
N1120A
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:25 pm



Quoting TheCol (Reply 40):

Why? It wasn't their job to raise him.

Crimes are committed by the children of parents who do everything they can to raise their children the best they can. Should Mike Huckabee be put in jail because he has a sociopath for a son? Marylin Bernardo for the acts of Paul Bernardo? The widowed father of the Son of Sam?

Quoting TheCol (Reply 40):

And you know this how? Last time I checked, you weren't a certified Psychiatrist.

Last I checked, you aren't either. That said, to kill someone in the manner in which he is accused suggests insanity.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
md80fanatic
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:42 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 42):
That said, to kill someone in the manner in which he is accused suggests insanity.

I agree if you mean the "state" doing the execution. That really does not set the balance straight, the balance of justice. What would probably be better is to allow the surviving family of the victim to determine the fate of the perp, and apply a penalty up to and including the exact act that the perp committed against the victim. That would be quite fair IMO.
 
A332
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:45 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 36):
Increase in education and reduction in poverty.

Right, because all those convicted of the most heinous crimes were poor and/or uneducated... quite far from it.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 36):
There is never a case where there is "no doubt"

There are plenty. If someone pleads guilty to a crime (outside of the most bizarre and extremely rare circumstances), there is absolutely no doubt they perpetrated the crime.
Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
 
N1120A
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:58 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 43):
What would probably be better is to allow the surviving family of the victim

That is just as heinous as the murder in the first place.

Quoting A332 (Reply 44):

Right, because all those convicted of the most heinous crimes were poor and/or uneducated... quite far from it.

The vast majority of those in prisons come from poor backgrounds.

Quoting A332 (Reply 44):
There are plenty. If someone pleads guilty to a crime (outside of the most bizarre and extremely rare circumstances), there is absolutely no doubt they perpetrated the crime.

First, the vast, vast majority of those who actually plead guilty to murder are not sentenced to death because of a plea bargain. Second, there are all kinds of reasons people plead guilty, and not nearly all of them are because they are guilty.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
A332
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:04 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 45):
First, the vast, vast majority of those who actually plead guilty to murder are not sentenced to death because of a plea bargain. Second, there are all kinds of reasons people plead guilty, and not nearly all of them are because they are guilty.

Your claim was that there are never cases where there is no doubt... that is an incorrect statement.
Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
 
md80fanatic
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:04 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 45):
That is just as heinous as the murder in the first place.

But what if the victim's family chose to have mercy, and decide life in prison with full rehabilitation a better balance of justice?

When you think about it a murderer does not commit a crime against the state, in any real sense....they commit it against an individual....and their remaining family.

It should read "heartless murderer vs. [insert victim's family name here]". If the victim's family feel justice has been done, then it should be done". Case closed.
 
N1120A
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:18 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 47):

But what if the victim's family chose to have mercy, and decide life in prison with full rehabilitation a better balance of justice?

It doesn't matter. It is not up to individuals to decide another's fate

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 47):

When you think about it a murderer does not commit a crime against the state, in any real sense....they commit it against an individual....and their remaining family.

And that is not how things work. Laws are set up to preserve the sanctity of the government, not to somehow exact revenge

Quoting A332 (Reply 46):

Your claim was that there are never cases where there is no doubt... that is an incorrect statement.

Let me rephrase then. Even in cases where there are eyewitness statements, like with Troy Davis, you can't be sure that they are actually guilty.
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allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
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RE: 16 Yr Old Murders For $6

Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:29 pm



Quoting Ual747 (Reply 3):
LOL, how's Mental help and the death penalty going to do him any good?

For once, MCO isn't far off. Depriving him of breath means depriving him of hope of ever seeing light of day to possibly do anything like this again.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
Ever heard of not guilty by reason of insanity?

I've heard of hanging/drawing/quartering, electrocution, firing squad . . .

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Mohandas K. Gandhi

One well-known philosopher . . . good, but still just a human w/an opinion. Meanwhile, there's a dead woman who did nothing to earn what she got . . . wonder how his Ghandiness would handle the criminal.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
It has become blatantly obvious that the death penalty is anything but an effective deterrent.

Except to the actual criminal.  scratchchin 

Quoting N1120A (Reply 36):
16 year old offenders cannot be executed



Quoting N1120A (Reply 42):
Quoting TheCol (Reply 40):

And you know this how? Last time I checked, you weren't a certified Psychiatrist.

Last I checked, you aren't either. That said, to kill someone in the manner in which he is accused suggests.

Murder.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 48):
It doesn't matter. It is not up to individuals to decide another's fate

And then the laws step in, and then it absolutely is. Welcome to reality beyond your relative perspectives.
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