AirCop
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:25 am

Found this out of Laredo, Texas http://www.kvue.com/news/state/stori.../092808kvuesnack-km.bdb5f1ce.html. this time an unarmed 13 year old is kill while looking for snacks according to the District Attorney.

It took the jury of eight men and four women three hours Friday to find 63-year-old Jose Luis Gonzalez not guilty of murdering Francisco Anguiano. The 13-year-old and three friends broke into Gonzalez's trailer to rummage for snacks and soda one night in July 2007.

Seems like an awful high price to pay..especially when the homeowner's life was not in danger;
Attorneys for both sides say he forced the unarmed boys to their knees. The boys say they were begging for forgiveness when Gonzalez hit them with the barrel of the shotgun and kicked them repeatedly.

The medical examiner testified that Anguiano was shot in the back at close range.

Seems like a simple case of murder to me.
 
L-188
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:45 am



Quoting AirCop (Thread starter):
especially when the homeowner's life was not in danger;

The homeowner didn't know that when it was happening.

Quoting AirCop (Thread starter):
The 13-year-old and three friends broke into Gonzalez's trailer to rummage for snacks and soda one night in July 2007.

And that is why he got shot, if he hadn't made the choice of committing a burglery then he wouldn't be dead.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
AirCop
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:03 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
And that is why he got shot, if he hadn't made the choice of committing a burglery then he wouldn't be dead

So you're okay with forcing the unarmed children to their knees, then hit them with the barrel of the shotgun and killing one basically execution style. What happen to the old days when you killed the kids in the case, and dragged them home.

One of these days I would suspect that an innocent party is going to be shot to dead, by mistake.
 
Stealthz
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:37 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
The homeowner didn't know that when it was happening.

It was likely pretty clear to him by the time they were on their knees and he was beating them with a shotgun though!

[Edited 2008-10-01 22:54:07]
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
flymia
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:51 am

Well some people really should just not own guns. I am all for the castle law which Florida has too and right to carry etc.. But really to just shoot an un armed person who is not attacking you in any way is just not right. Do I think this is murder no, the kids where breaking the law and under the law he did have the right to shoot so under the law I guess charges should not be taken if you follow it by the book. But taking them down to their knees? I say manslaughter.
People who use deadly force need to be wise when to use it, asses the situation dont just shoot. Now if the person had any type of weapon or was making any type of threatening actions than go ahead and fire and protect your self. But I dont think this was the case.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
flymia
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:42 am

For those not familiar with the Castle Law this is what it basically does at least in the state of Florida.
"One: It establishes, in law, the presumption that a criminal who forcibly enters or intrudes into your home or occupied vehicle is there to cause death or great bodily harm, therefore a person may use any manner of force, including deadly force, against that person.

Two: It removes the "duty to retreat" if you are attacked in any place you have a right to be. You no longer have to turn your back on a criminal and try to run when attacked. Instead, you may stand your ground and fight back, meeting force with force, including deadly force, if you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to yourself or others.

Three: It provides that persons using force authorized by law shall not be prosecuted for using such force."
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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DocLightning
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:41 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
The homeowner didn't know that when it was happening.

Um, if you have your intruder on his knees begging for his life, then I think you pretty much know you're in control of the situation.

This case makes me wish that Dexter was a real person.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
RJdxer
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:35 pm



Quoting AirCop (Thread starter):
It took the jury of eight men and four women three hours Friday to find 63-year-old Jose Luis Gonzalez not guilty of murdering Francisco Anguiano. The 13-year-old and three friends broke into Gonzalez's trailer to rummage for snacks and soda one night in July 2007.

I just hate it when a jury of your peers finds you not guilty.
BTW your link goes 404.

http://www.kvue.com/news/state/stori...omeowner_aquitted-mw.ba87a7b9.html

Quoting AirCop (Thread starter):
Seems like an awful high price to pay..especially when the homeowner's life was not in danger;
Attorneys for both sides say he forced the unarmed boys to their knees. The boys say they were begging for forgiveness when Gonzalez hit them with the barrel of the shotgun and kicked them repeatedly.

How do you know his life was not in danger? The remaining boys say they were begging for forgiveness. Was that before or after the other boy was shot? The story doesn't make it clear. Where was the evidence that the boys were hit with the barrel and kicked and was that before or after the shooting? Far more interesting is the response from the community. Seems that many agreed with the man doing the shooting. As L-188 states, if they hadn't broken into the mans trailer they wouldn't have gotten shot. Perhaps the "you loot we shoot" signs should be made more readily available.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
AirCop
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:21 pm



Quoting AirCop (Thread starter):
The medical examiner testified that Anguiano was shot in the back at close range.



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 7):
How do you know his life was not in danger?

So you're okay with shooting young people in the back. Classic..
 
D L X
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:37 pm



Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
The homeowner didn't know that when it was happening.

WRONG ANSWER.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
Um, if you have your intruder on his knees begging for his life, then I think you pretty much know you're in control of the situation.

RIGHT ANSWER.
 
RJdxer
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Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:34 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 8):
So you're okay with shooting young people in the back. Classic..

Evidently you are ok with crooks breaking into other people's homes. BTW, there are plenty of ways a person can get shot in the back in an enclosed space. According to the victim, the crook lunged at him and he fired. Plenty of ways to get hit in the back in that scenario.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
AirframeAS
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Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:35 pm

AirCop.... How was the homeowner supposed to know that the children were armed or not?

Children or adults as the perps, the homeowner has the right to protect his home, family and assets from harm.

But then again, when he has the perps in control, that should be it...no more excessive force beyond that, period. That is when murder comes into play.

So we were not there so we don't know what really happened.

I agree with this law, though. It should be a federal law.
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MD11Engineer
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:54 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 10):
AirCop.... How was the homeowner supposed to know that the children were armed or not?

Children or adults as the perps, the homeowner has the right to protect his home, family and assets from harm.

But then again, when he has the perps in control, that should be it...no more excessive force beyond that, period. That is when murder comes into play.

So we were not there so we don't know what really happened.

I agree with this law, though. It should be a federal law.

From what I understand, normal selfdefense laws (as in most countries) require you to de-escalate, if necessary by running away and calling the cops, before fighting back. Fighting back is only allowed if you are cornered.
Now the Castle laws remove this requirement, on your own property, you can stand your ground and use all your legal means available to combat a threat.
Now, what I don't see is the castle laws giving the pissed off homeowner the right to execute tresspassers or burglars AFTER the threat has been neutralised and the perps have been secured.
If he really had them lined up on their knees, with him standing behind them, and then first beat them and then shot them into the back Soviet execution style to make a point, it would be IMO murder and taking the law into his own hands. I doubt that this was the intention of the castle laws.

Jan
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MattRB
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:58 pm

There's protecting your property and then there is vengeance. This is a case of the latter. Forcing them to their knees at gunpoint? Shot in the back? That's not protecting your property.
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DocLightning
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:01 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 11):
Evidently you are ok with crooks breaking into other people's homes.

Please quote where he said that.

Do you support the death penalty for ALL crimes?
-Doc Lightning-

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AirframeAS
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:06 pm



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 12):
Now, what I don't see is the castle laws giving the pissed off homeowner the right to execute tresspassers or burglars AFTER the threat has been neutralised and the perps have been secured.

Right. Once you have a perp under control...that is it. No more force needed. Call the cops at gunpoint and let the cops sort it out on arrival.

Executing beyond the means is then murder. The Texas Castle Law has left that part out.
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AirCop
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:36 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 7):
How do you know his life was not in danger?

If anyone was afraid for their lives it was the subdued teenagers as they were being kicked and beaten by Gonzalez.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 11):
According to the victim, the crook lunged at him and he fired. Plenty of ways to get hit in the back in that scenario.

Really; enlighten us how Aguiano who was on his knees could have “lunged” at Gonzalez and get shot in the back.
From Newsweek: I thank God and my attorney, the jury and the judge," Gonzalez said in Spanish after the verdict. "It was a case where it was my life or theirs, and it's a very good thing that they (the jurors) decided in my favor."
I still fail to understand how Gonzalez life was in danger when HE WASN'T HOME when the kids entered his trailer.
 
Rara
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Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:03 pm



Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):

Honestly - people say we share the same culture, we're part of the same Western civilization. But you're culturally so far removed from anything I'd consider even remotely acceptable, I find it impossible to even argue with you. You defend the execution of a 13-year old child and believe it to be the most normal thing in the world - I can't really find words to express how bloody unbelievable that is.

This is why I am time and again amazed that the society you live in deems it appropriate to allow you and your kind to carry firearms. In my view, that's a disaster waiting to happen.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
bristolflyer
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Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:01 pm

Can someone please post the 'aww jeez, not this sh#t again' picture please.

People are arguing about the facts, but no-one seems to know them. What's the point?
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Blackbird
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Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:38 pm

DocLighting,

Quote:
Um, if you have your intruder on his knees begging for his life, then I think you pretty much know you're in control of the situation.

I would have to concur. That guy went totally out of line...


Blackbird
 
AirframeAS
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Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:56 pm



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 19):
That guy went totally out of line...

I think we have already established that.
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AircraftGeek
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:00 pm



Quoting AirCop (Thread starter):
Attorneys for both sides say he forced the unarmed boys to their knees. The boys say they were begging for forgiveness when Gonzalez hit them with the barrel of the shotgun and kicked them repeatedly.

The medical examiner testified that Anguiano was shot in the back at close range.

Wow. Just wow.

Gonzalez must be really proud of what he did, shooting an unarmed 13yo in the back.

But this is the law of Texas, so if Texans are happy, so be it.
Nothing is fool-proof given a sufficiently skilled fool
 
D L X
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:08 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 11):
Evidently you are ok with crooks breaking into other people's homes.

How did you reach that conclusion? There's a whole lot of punishment available between execution and letting someone go. No one on this thread has suggested that the kids should have been given no punishment.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 12):
From what I understand, normal selfdefense laws (as in most countries) require you to de-escalate, if necessary by running away and calling the cops, before fighting back.

That's the basic law in most places in the United States also. Texas and a couple other jurisdictions are anomalous.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 15):
Right. Once you have a perp under control...that is it. No more force needed. Call the cops at gunpoint and let the cops sort it out on arrival.

Executing beyond the means is then murder. The Texas Castle Law has left that part out.

So then, do you agree that the Texas Castle Law went too far in this case? The perps were under control, and the murderer shot them in the back.

He might not go to jail in Texas, but I sure as hell know where he's going when he's dead.
 
Charles79
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:23 pm



Quoting Rara (Reply 17):
Honestly - people say we share the same culture, we're part of the same Western civilization. But you're culturally so far removed from anything I'd consider even remotely acceptable, I find it impossible to even argue with you. You defend the execution of a 13-year old child and believe it to be the most normal thing in the world - I can't really find words to express how bloody unbelievable that is.

Rara, please remember that he doesn't speak for all of us. I guarantee you that most folks in the US would find it inappropriate to shoot a child from behind and kill him for a petty crime. Just like you, I am at a loss of words here. I just hope that those parts of our society will one day abandone this John Wayne syndrome once and for all and adopt a more civilized mode of conduct.

As for the case at hand, it makes me feel even better about rejecting two job offers from Texas. There are many places in the world that I would like to live in, and Texas ain't one of them!
 
AirframeAS
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:24 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 22):
So then, do you agree that the Texas Castle Law went too far in this case?

No. The one that went to far is the dude, himself, who shot the kids...not the law itself. The law clearly left out a protections clause for the intruders if the protector has the situation under control. Had the law had that, the dude would be in jail by now....possibly for life or death penalty.

In the end of the day, its all about common sense.
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md80fanatic
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Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:23 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 24):
, its all about common sense.

Is it? Common sense says what goes on behind locked doors on private property is no one elses business....unless the man was luring kids in to be executed. He locked the door which indicates that he did not wish for anyone to enter. The kids entered by compromising the lock (breaking) then went right in (entering) and proceeded to help themselves to other people's food (theft).

Three teens could easily overwhelm a man in his sixties. The gun was an equalizer. The old man did not haul off and shoot on first sight of the kids....good move on his part. Since he could not reasonably be expected to bind the hands on each one by himself....while assuring himself of the use of the weapon as defense while he is actually doing the tying. My choice would have been as he chose....keep weapon on them and ask them to kneel (hardest position to rise up from quickly, especially after kneeling for a while). During the course of the incident, how likely is it that a punk kid who already resorted to breaking and entering, theft and intimidation....would try to make a theatening move while kneeling....in conjunction with the other kids? Think an already frightened elderly man would pull off a shot if he thought he might be overwhelmed? All it takes is a few moments for the balance of the situation to change....and the old man appear in the obituaries the next morning.

It is a good thing that legislators know that they do not really understand the thought processes of people under extreme duress, so they provide a wide berth in self protection laws. It's easy for know-it-alls on the forum...sitting safely behind a desk....to second guess this mans decision's in what could have been the last moments of his life.
 
AirframeAS
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Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:25 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 25):
Common sense says what goes on behind locked doors on private property is no one elses business....unless the man was luring kids in to be executed.

You can take your tinfoil hat off now.....  sarcastic 
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
md80fanatic
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Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:38 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 26):
You can take your tinfoil hat off now.....

That's all you got?

Behind locked doors on your own property, there is still more than a reasonable expectation of privacy. You are all putting your omniscient selves into the man's shoes and figuring that YOU would have the situation handled....and YOU would then allow the cops to preside. All huge assumptions that not a single one of you can have any possible hope to verify.

Waiter! I'll have my check please.  Yeah sure
 
AirframeAS
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:41 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 27):

Do you realize what I said earlier that there was no justification on what the man did? I am not supporting the man's actions. A certain piece of the Texas Castle Law was left out, there was no justification for what the man did to those kids. That is illegal and it is murder!!!!

This dude got away with it... a very lucky dude.

Again, take that tinfoil hat off and quit trying to be Blackbird's clone.  sarcastic  Your attacks on me was unwarranted. no  Re-read my posts.
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md80fanatic
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:57 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 28):
That is illegal and it is murder!!!!

I do not believe you can prove this assertion. Neither can the law. You have to make quite a few broad based assumptions to do so. That is why he will, and ought to, be acquitted. The prime mover in this whole mess was the misguided youth's decision to break in. All decisions have consequences....and that particular decision almost got all of them killed.

The man did not consciously plan to hurt anyone, he lured no one to his home. The kids accepted the unknown risk of entering someone else's home. There could be a wheelchair bound 99 year old, totally defenseless inside....or there could be pissed-off ex-farmer with a 44 magnum.....it's a gamble and the boys lost....they almost lost everything. Here is where educational rehabilitation has an actual place.....
 
AirframeAS
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:59 pm



Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 29):

That's a better view. Thank you.

But then again, we were not there so we do not really know what really took place. With that said, the man got lucky one way or another regardless how one sees it.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
iairallie
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Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:13 pm

So they were there to steal snacks. Well just this last week there was a story in the news about a 15 year old who broke in to steal $6 for beer money from an elderly lady. She caught him and he killed her.

I doubt I would have shot the kid I wasn't there but and I don't know how threatened he was. three 13 year olds (kids can be really big these days my sister is 12 and looks almost like an adult) could easily overpower one older man.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 28):
That is illegal and it is murder!!!!

Well it's not illegal in Texas and it's not murder it is self defense. We don't have all the facts but the jury sure did and they acquitted him.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
md80fanatic
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:14 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 30):
That's a better view. Thank you.

You're welcome of course.  thumbsup 
 
AirframeAS
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:21 pm



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 31):
Well it's not illegal in Texas

While that may be true, that was left out of the Texas Castle Law legislation.... That should have been added...

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 31):
it's not murder it is self defense.

We don't know that. But in my eyes, it is murder.

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 31):
We don't have all the facts but the jury sure did and they acquitted him.

If we do not have all the facts, then neither did the jury. They acquitted him based on what the law said (and in my opinion, the law has a flaw.). And the law said he protected his home regardless of if it was a unarmed kid or an armed kid or what have you. The law needs to be amended to add the revisions of protecting the perp, if the owner has the situation in control.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
RJdxer
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:21 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
Please quote where he said that.

Sure as soon as he explains where I said:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 8):
So you're okay with shooting young people in the back. Classic..



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
Do you support the death penalty for ALL crimes?

The kid didn't get the death penalty. The death penalty is a form of sentence given out by a court of law. The kid got what was coming to him for being stupid enough to break into someones home for a snack.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 16):
If anyone was afraid for their lives it was the subdued teenagers as they were being kicked and beaten by Gonzalez.

Of course since you were there you know this to be a fact right?

Quoting AirCop (Reply 16):
Really; enlighten us how Aguiano who was on his knees could have “lunged” at Gonzalez and get shot in the back.

Did you ever play football?

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 20):
I think we have already established that.

Evidently a jury of his peers thinks otherwise.

Quoting D L X (Reply 22):
How did you reach that conclusion?

You and Doc must have had the same English teacher.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
AirframeAS
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:31 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 34):
Evidently a jury of his peers thinks otherwise.

 checkmark  Agreed... but based in the evidence given to them through the Texas Castle Law.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
MD11Engineer
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:04 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 34):
The kid didn't get the death penalty. The death penalty is a form of sentence given out by a court of law. The kid got what was coming to him for being stupid enough to break into someones home for a snack.

So this means that in Texas I can set up a nice little gallows in my backyard and hang whomever I find entering my house illegally instead of handing them over to the cops?

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
AirframeAS
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:20 pm



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 36):

You're missing the point, Jan.  sigh 
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AirCop
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:25 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 34):
Sure as soon as he explains where I said:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 8):
So you're okay with shooting young people in the back. Classic



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 34):
The kid got what was coming to him for being stupid enough to break into someones home for a snack.

Didn't have to look far, now answer Doc's question.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 34):
Of course since you were there you know this to be a fact right?

According to the local paper ( 08/03/07) it appears that the "victim" story changed from what first happened, to what was reported in court. What I know as a fact, I wouldn't trust you around a firearm. Based on your answers in these firearm treads, I doubt that you could pass a psych test to become an law enforcement officer.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 34):
Did you ever play football?

What does football have to do with this? I never seen a football player line up on his knees and his hands behind him...

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 34):
Evidently a jury of his peers thinks otherwise.

Juries make mistakes all the time, think OJ.. A grand jury (made up of his peers also) indicted him on first degree murder. We made not have seen the last of this case, especially if the new US Attorney decides to review the case for civil rights violations.
Finally, what is really interesting is that none of the other kids were ever charged with a crime.
 
iairallie
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:45 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 33):
We don't know that.

Yes we do there was a verdict. The law says it is self defense.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 33):
If we do not have all the facts, then neither did the jury.

They are certainly operating with a more complete set of facts than we are.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
AirframeAS
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Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:58 pm



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 39):
Yes we do there was a verdict.

Opinion, more likely, which is acquittal.

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 39):
The law says it is self defense.

The jury is not the law.

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 39):
They are certainly operating with a more complete set of facts than we are.

That is true.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1620
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:08 pm



Quoting Rara (Reply 17):
But you're culturally so far removed from anything I'd consider even remotely acceptable, I find it impossible to even argue with you.

A lot of us feel that way. Texas is like it's own little universe. Everyone I've met from Texas wishes they were back in Texas. And everyone else wishes they were too.  Smile
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:09 pm



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 41):
Texas is like it's own little universe.

I agree with that, 100%

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 41):
Everyone I've met from Texas wishes they were back in Texas. And everyone else wishes they were too.  Smile

My gf went to Austin College. To this day, she still wishes she was in Texas living there full-time.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:18 pm



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 36):
So this means that in Texas I can set up a nice little gallows in my backyard and hang whomever I find entering my house illegally instead of handing them over to the cops?

Nope, the law does not allow for that.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 38):
Didn't have to look far, now answer Doc's question.

That I was answering you with the same ridiculous logic you are espousing? Answer the question, how do you know, unless you were there, that he did not fear for his life? You and Doc also share that trait. You are both very good at asking questions but absolutely suck at answering them.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 38):
According to the local paper ( 08/03/07)

Perhaps you would be so kind as to provide a link, one that works this time, or do I have to do the lifting for you again?

Quoting AirCop (Reply 38):
doubt that you could pass a psych test to become an law enforcement officer.

I don't doubt that I don't care if I could or could not.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 38):
I never seen a football player line up on his knees and his hands behind him..

Exactly where in the story, the only story we have a link to at this point mind you, does it say that their hands were behind their backs? Even if they were what would stop him from taking his hands from behind his head while lunging and if you never tackled anyone starting from your knees then you didn't play much.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 38):
Juries make mistakes all the time, think OJ..

Yet we accept the juries decision and move on.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 38):
A grand jury (made up of his peers also) indicted him on first degree murder.

As you should well know a grand jury is all prosecutor and no defense. Much easier to bring charges than to convict on the same charges.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 38):
Finally, what is really interesting is that none of the other kids were ever charged with a crime.

Which means that the prosecutor dropped the ball. No wonder the defense attorney is running unopposed for the office.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:52 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 43):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 36):
So this means that in Texas I can set up a nice little gallows in my backyard and hang whomever I find entering my house illegally instead of handing them over to the cops?

Nope, the law does not allow for that.

So we have two different scenarios:

a) The armed homeowner confronts the burglars. While they seem to be secured, and he is waiting for the cops to arrive,they suddenly make threatening moves and seem to attack him. He shoots in selfdefense and kills one of them.
This IMO should be totally legal.

b) The armed homeowner confronts the burglars. They don't resist and he makes them kneel doen and maybe ties them up them with ziplocks. But now, very much p*ssed off about the damage they have done, he doesn't call the cops, but instead he starts beating the sh*t out of them and then shoots one exacution style to make a point "This will teach you to break into my trailer!".

IMO the later case would be taking the law into his own hands, at least manslaughter, if not murder.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:57 pm



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 44):
They don't resist and he makes them kneel doen and maybe ties them up them with ziplocks.

Kneel down but where does the zip tie evidence come in? Saw nothing in the story about that.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 44):
but instead he starts beating the sh*t out of them

Again, I did not see where evidence of this was introduced other than what the three remaining burglars said.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
AirCop
Topic Author
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:59 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 43):
Perhaps you would be so kind as to provide a link, one that works this time, or do I have to do the lifting for you again?

You might try Yahoo, or another search engine, I found numerous stories (at least 30) on the subject dating back to August of last year. But here one that describes the testimony of the Sheriff investigator; http://www.lmtonline.com/articles/20...news/doc48dc8b71cdef9527878788.txt

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 43):
That I was answering you with the same ridiculous logic

 bomb  Most people here know what your m.o. is. Making false statements regarding what members write, then blaming the writer..

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 43):
Even if they were what would stop him from taking his hands from behind his head while lunging and if you never tackled anyone starting from your knees then you didn't play much.

Read the articles..I understand that playing too much football can cause brain injuries.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 43):
No wonder the defense attorney is running unopposed for the office.

If you did your research, you would know that Joe Rubio the current DA is retiring after 20 years, and that no Republicans are running for the office.
 
Rara
Posts: 2296
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:41 am

Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:02 am



Quoting Charles79 (Reply 23):
Rara, please remember that he doesn't speak for all of us.

No, of course I'm aware of that. It seems that the good people of America have to deal with some really deranged individuals - I don't envy you guys.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 25):
Common sense says what goes on behind locked doors on private property is no one elses business

Common sense says don't shoot 13-year old kids in the back!!  banghead 

Other than that, Josef Fritzl would probably very much agree with you on that statement.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:17 am



Quoting AirCop (Reply 45):
You might try Yahoo, or another search engine

I might, but I'm not the one who started the thread with a bogus link and is referring to statements in stories that have no link at all. I would remind you that the first working link in the thread is mine.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 45):
Most people here know what your m.o. is. Making false statements regarding what members write, then blaming the writer..

Really, so when you write:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 2):
So you're okay with forcing the unarmed children to their knees, then hit them with the barrel of the shotgun and killing one basically execution style. What happen to the old days when you killed the kids in the case, and dragged them home.

You were correctly quoting me on which statement that I made?

Quoting AirCop (Reply 45):
If you did your research, you would know that Joe Rubio the current DA is retiring after 20 years, and that no Republicans are running for the office.

If you provided proper links to your threads we might have known that. I guess his retiring wouldn't have anything to do with his relationship to persons convicted of case fixing would it?

BTW I did read the article. In it I read:

Alaniz has stated repeatedly that Gonzalez perceived Anguiano as lunging toward his legs when Gonzalez had the juveniles subdued and that is why he fired the weapon.

Which would be consistent with a leg tackle in football. You can insult me all you want, fact remains that in that article the defense expert has it down right:

"In this (high-pressure) state of mind, particularly fast movements are usually perceived as dangerous," Staton said. "Deception is reality. When you're there, what you perceive, whether it's accurate or not, that's reality."

Interesting also was the Texas Rangers assesment:

Major Doyle Holdridge is a former Texas Ranger and ex-member of the National Rifle Association who currently heads the criminal division at the Webb County Sheriff's Department. He stated that after reviewing the statements of the three surviving juveniles, who he said appeared to him to be just "children," his department decided to charge Gonzalez with murder.

"If Mr. Gonzalez (had) walked through the front door and killed everyone in that room, I would not have had such a problem," Holdridge stated.


So according to the Ranger if he had just shot all 4 of them there would have been no murder charge at all.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

Is The Texas Castle Law Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:24 am



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 46):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 44):
They don't resist and he makes them kneel doen and maybe ties them up them with ziplocks.

Kneel down but where does the zip tie evidence come in? Saw nothing in the story about that.

the zip tie came from my own imagination. This is what I would do if I caught a burglar in my place, tying him up before I call the cops to prevent nasty surprises.
In any case, I was exagerating the case to make a point.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 46):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 44):
but instead he starts beating the sh*t out of them

Again, I did not see where evidence of this was introduced other than what the three remaining burglars said.

This should be easily provable. If the burglars got hit with the shotgun barrel, it should leave bruises.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi

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