User avatar
OA260
Posts: 20987
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Extremists To Be Barred From UK

Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:12 pm

Shame its taken so long for this to happen. This should have been introduced years ago.
-----------------------

Tougher measures to prevent extremists entering the UK have been announced by Home Secretary Jacqui Smith.
They are designed to stop people - including so-called "preachers of hate" - stirring up tension.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7694408.stm
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9199
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: Extremists To Be Barred From UK

Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:11 pm

What extremists? Right wingers?
Religious? Christians? Sikhs? Hindus? Islamics?
 Confused

Extremists can be far and wide.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
rsg85
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:30 pm

RE: Extremists To Be Barred From UK

Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:46 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 1):
What extremists? Right wingers?
Religious? Christians? Sikhs? Hindus? Islamics?

People who preach hate due to differance in beliefs and incite violence towards others is what it would be narrowed down too. But your definatly right, how can it seriously be policed without having to watch every single religious leader and follower in the world? It cant be predicted that a certain person entering the uk is going to preach hate. These 230 banned people surely have followers who will enter instead and preach on thier behalf. I cant see much being acheived here
 
babybus
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:07 am

RE: Extremists To Be Barred From UK

Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:27 pm

It also relies on information from, not so honest, foreign governments.

How do they know they are extremists at the border control at LHR? Would they wear telepathic glasses?
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Extremists To Be Barred From UK

Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:06 pm



Quoting Oa260 (Thread starter):
Tougher measures to prevent extremists entering the UK have been announced by Home Secretary Jacqui Smith.
They are designed to stop people - including so-called "preachers of hate" - stirring up tension.

-
Basically positive, sure, and many other countries have introduced such measures quite some time ago. The main problem however is how to define "extremists" !
-

Quoting Babybus (Reply 3):
How do they know they are extremists at the border control at LHR? Would they wear telepathic glasses?

-
Another aspect is that many extremists in the past were NOT extremist when arriving in Europe and only became extremist later on. And that, as the tube-bombings have shown, many extremists are citizens of the U.K. and other countries.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 20987
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Extremists To Be Barred From UK

Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:33 pm



Quoting Lowrider (Reply 5):
I can see it now:
"Are you an extremist, sir?"

"No"

"Do you now or have you ever preached hate and violence?"

"No"

"Do you promise not to speak poorly of British cultural norms, or values?"

"Yes"

"Very good, welcome."

Oh so its based on the US I-94 form then ?

http://amsterdam.usconsulate.gov/upl...7a8u5IJKZnyI3zjJJC0Q/I-94_back.jpg
 
lowrider
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:09 am

RE: Extremists To Be Barred From UK

Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:34 pm

I can see it now:
"Are you an extremist, sir?"

"No"

"Do you now or have you ever preached hate and violence?"

"No"

"Do you promise not to speak poorly of British cultural norms, or values?"

"Yes"

"Very good, welcome."
Proud OOTSK member
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Extremists To Be Barred From UK

Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:41 pm

GOOD for the United Kingdom! As an agnostic Muslim, I wish every country would do this. That's the only way to cut off these extremists from spreading their hateful and violent ideology. The definition of extremist does need to be firmly established though so that it is applied consistently and fairly.

Quoting Oa260 (Reply 6):
Oh so its based on the US I-94 form then ?

I noticed those questions on the I-94 form recently and started laughing. Pretty ridiculous...
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Extremists To Be Barred From UK

Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:16 pm



Quoting BA (Reply 7):
applied consistently and fairly

-
How exactly should a border controller apply such a regulation ? Such a controller sees hundreds of passengers per day. And generally only for a very short time. A controller only has a real chance if he has the photo of a suspect ready, or if the person coming in is strange in a way. The idea of the law rather is to have the legal right to reject an extremism suspect, and this is good.
 
lowrider
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:09 am

RE: Extremists To Be Barred From UK

Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:19 pm



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 6):
Oh so its based on the US I-94 form then ?

For the their sakes, I hope they can do better.
Proud OOTSK member
 
Danfearn77
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:52 pm

RE: Extremists To Be Barred From UK

Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:17 am

Will never happen, would be against their human rights. There will be a loop hole somewhere. Remember this is a country where an islamic extremist with a hook can preach hate in the middle of a public road, blocking the street. And what are the police doing? Stood there making sure no one interrupts him. They cant move him and his preachers along incase its racist and a breach of their human rights. He was doing that for years until he was arrested, mainly because the US wanted him extradiated.

And then there is another preacher, who has proven terrorist links. Did we kick him out.....nope, we are paying the rent on his £1m a year home and paying for his daughters PRIVATE teaching. The UK is going down the drain.
Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12362
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Extremists To Be Barred From UK

Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:49 am

A number of ountries, including the USA, used to keep out as visitors well know Communists and Socialists. Would the UK keep out extremists right wingers from Israel under this law? I know many of us are desprite to keep out those that preach hate against our and other countries, but by doing so are we ignoring our own laws on free speech and part of our character? I suspect this law will be practically unenforcable.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 8476
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Extremists To Be Barred From UK

Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:45 am



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 11):
know many of us are desprite to keep out those that preach hate against our and other countries, but by doing so are we ignoring our own laws on free speech and part of our character? I suspect this law will be practically unenforcable.

One might argue that without controls on extremists, we all will not have to worry about free speech and our charactor.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Extremists To Be Barred From UK

Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:43 pm



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 11):
Would the UK keep out extremists right wingers from Israel under this law?

-
It is a practical problem for the border controllers, at airports or ferry-ports. Extremists do NOT carry different passports but quite normal passports, and most extremists do NOT have "extremist looks".
 
User avatar
MillwallSean
Posts: 860
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:07 pm

RE: Extremists To Be Barred From UK

Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:53 am

And most descisions on this will not be taken by immigration officers.

There will be a list of names that are not welcome and if they try to fly into the country the computersystem will blink and say not welcome.
In most cases the persons will then be stopped from bordering their flight or stopped when they arrive at a UK airport and try to go through UK immigration.
This is not rocketscience or a perfect scheme, its just one tool to keep some known people from visiting the UK and to throw out people that takes advantage of our freedom of speach.

If I am correct the Schengen countries have had this for quite some time.
The UK who doesnt want to be part of SIS doesnt get this information and thus welcomes several imams that have been expelled from other European countries...

Apart from muslims I guess it will be used against LTTE, far right activists and other terrorlisted groups.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Extremists To Be Barred From UK

Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:49 pm



Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 14):
There will be a list of names that are not welcome and if they try to fly into the country the computersystem will blink and say not welcome.

-
THIS of course is the reason for the law. The real problem of the U.K. is that this country, in contrast to Continental Europe, does NOT have a mandatary population-registration system, which means that if you are IN the country, you ARE in the country.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 14):
If I am correct the Schengen countries have had this for quite some time.

-
Yes, and also Switzerland. So that this is a minor problem of Switzerland now joining Schengen.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 14 guests