PanHAM
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Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:20 am

Breaking news is that designated Prime Minister of the State of Hesse, Andrea Ypsilanti lost her majority and failed in an attempt to get elected by the state parliament tomorrow Nov 4th.

This is good news for Fraport and the development of Frankfurt airport and the process of the new runway there. The election of Mrs Y would have been a desaster not only for the developemnt of Rhein-Main but for the industrial base of our state in general.

good to know that there are still upright members of a party fraction who don not support lunatics.

Three cheers for them
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GermanInItaly
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:30 am

Good news for CDU and.. for us..  Smile
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:26 pm

Well, for me its being between a rock and a hard place. I hate Ypsilanti and her ultraleftwing meschpoke, but I can't stand Koch of the right wing of the CDU either.
Why can't the SPD provide some pragmatic politicians of the just left of center Helmut Schmidt line?

Jan
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na
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:55 pm

I must admit that I voted for Ypsilanti earlier this year because the current "governor" of Hessen is arguably the best-hated politiician in Germany. Very unsympathetic, and his record is nothing more than mediocre. And he is not very "friendly" to foreigners to say the least.
High time to dump him. Not a man who deserves another term for sure.
But I wasn´t very positive about the alternative, too. It was a "cancer vs. cholera" choice. When Ypsilanti, despite saying otherwise before, turned to the far left party for help AFTER the election (to make it clear many voted for her because they voted AGAINST Koch in the first place), I couldn´t agree, and still don´t.
So I´m somewhat "ok" with Y not getting the post.
Now its for the CDU to find a successor for Koch. This man is discredited, and, as a person, clearly lost the election, but, sadly, as his avoidance of public appearances recently shows, is about to "sit it out" like his godfather Kohl. Thats not true democracy at all. This man MUST go.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:00 pm

It's like choosing betwen pest and cholera in Hessen..
I don't like the lady and hate the sufficient style of Koch as well..so the best for the voters in Hessen would be to promote a new political personality that combines competence,honesty,vision and charisma ..
Well- that might be a tough nut to crack for German politics..(politics globally even..)
Hessen needs a German Obama..
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:19 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 4):
It's like choosing betwen pest and cholera in Hessen..

Exactly. The voters in Hessen had the choice between an ultra leftwing government including the neo-communists of the Linkspartei with a lying prime minister Ypsilanti and and an ultra rightwing bordering on fascism, using racist and anti-foreigner slogans, prime minister from the CDU. Where are the candidates representing the center (either centrist wing of the SPD or the moderate wing of the CDU)?
I'm quite sure that one reason why the SPD lost so many voters and members during the last years is the turnaway from the center towards the extreme left.

Jan
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na
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:42 pm



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 5):
Exactly. The voters in Hessen had the choice between an ultra leftwing government including the neo-communists of the Linkspartei with a lying prime minister Ypsilanti and and an ultra rightwing bordering on fascism, using racist and anti-foreigner slogans, prime minister from the CDU. Where are the candidates representing the center (either centrist wing of the SPD or the moderate wing of the CDU)?

What I said, in more drastic words. One thing you said is wrong so: Its the members of parliament who had the choice between a left wing INCLUDING neo-communists and already discredited Koch rightwingers on the other side. Not the voters. Ypsilanti said BEFORE the election she would not ally with the neo-communists. Thats why I voted for her. She broke her word and rightfully lost her head for that now.
Lets pray Koch with his semi-fascist torrents-of-hatred may follow soon. Let him become a lawyer again, or wait, better not. He´s perfectly suited to defend white collar criminals as he did nothing else as governnor. Actually he´s one of them with his black funds history.
 
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:49 pm

Great no just get rid of Koch, too and start fresh in Hesse.........
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TheSonntag
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:03 pm

At least those green Eco-Fascists cannot block the airport now...
 
na
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:37 pm



Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 8):
At least those green Eco-Fascists cannot block the airport now...

Have you ever heard about the "St. Florian" principle?

Better eco"fascists" than real fascists. But, honestly, Ypsilanti is not an eco-"fascist". While the likes of Koch only care about whats happening next year, or in 4 years, when the next election comes, many Ypsilanti supporters focus on what should be in 10 or 30 years and try to implement measures ignoring today. Both is wrong.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:50 pm



Quoting NA (Reply 3):
must admit that I voted for Ypsilanti earlier this year because the current "governor" of Hessen is arguably the best-hated politiician in Germany. Very unsympathetic, and his record

you should meet him in person he is a totally different person than what the media makes out of him He is a brilliant politician and that is dangerous in Germany, If you are brilliant and not left, you will be mpobbed by the media until you are dead. Koch defeated all this and stands above matters, whatever Hessoischer rundfunk says. I met hoim many times, heard many speeches, this man runs the state like a business and that's the way to do it., He is not anti but pro foreigners. But he is against that foreigners absuing our state and even the most left winger will agree that this is the case in many ways.

Quoting NA (Reply 3):
Now its for the CDU to find a successor for Koch. This man is discredited, and, as a person, clearly lost the election, but, sadly, as his avoidance of public appearances recently shows

that is up to the CDU members. He is the best man for the job and he will win the next election, as he did win the last

OK, he lost a large share of voters, but he still won and had more vots than Ypsilanti, democratic tradition would have meant a grand coaltion with Koch at the helm .

But never ever with extremists, be it left or right. That was Ypsilantis mistake and that broke her neck.
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Klaus
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:25 pm



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10):
you should meet him in person he is a totally different person than what the media makes out of him

I've got exactly the opposite reaction from people who've met him personally. He seems to be at least as revolting in person as he is on TV.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10):
If you are brilliant and not left, you will be mpobbed by the media until you are dead. Koch defeated all this and stands above matters, whatever Hessoischer rundfunk says.

If Koch is your kind of guy, well, go ahead.

But his utterly disgusting attempt to explain the corrupt money laundering of his CDU as "jewish inheritances" together with his intensely xenophobic campaigns have successfully destroyed any image of decency he might have enjoyed at some time in the ancient past.

The man is one of the most repulsive individuals on the german political scene, and quite possibly at the top of that list.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:50 pm

This is not only good news, this is excellent news! It shows that the state MPs in Hessen still have common sense. This is genuine punishment for Frau Yps blatantly throwing her pledge to NOT get help or become allied with the SED, and I hope this will finally end her powertrip.

Sure, Koch is no saint either, but as previously said, the choice is between pest and cholera (Not oder Elend), and if I was forced to make a choice as Hessian voter, I'd choose Koch every day of the week and twice on Sunday over Frau Yps. In any case, Koch will remain as interim state Prime Minister (geschäftsführender Ministerpräsident) for the time being.

That being said, given that nobody wants a coalition with Roland Koch and the SPD's reputation in Hessen totally destroyed, the only logical choice is to call for early elections for this January or February at earliest, so time can pass in order for the parties to make proper choices for Ministerpräsident and to set things up right.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:13 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 11):
But his utterly disgusting attempt to explain the corrupt money laundering of his CDU as "jewish inheritances" together with his intensely xenophobic campaigns have successfully destroyed any image of decency he might have enjoyed at some time in the ancient past

Koch never lied on that subject. He blew the whistle on what his predecessor in office (chairman of the Hesse CDU) and his accountant did. There was an interview with HR TV and Koch could not say one item he knew at this time for legal reasons but he did not lie. he disclosed that matter the next morning. These are the facts and believe me, i was an assemblyman for almost 20 years. Koch is my Landtags representative and we got the chronological event from him first hand, He would not be in office, had he lied. Even the HR conceded lateron that the facts he presented were genuine., but they did not make it that üpublic.

But OK, if you want to be manipulated by the media, your problem. It's a democracy and you don't have to like him. But may be you agree that Miss Ypsilanti is about as bright as Sarah Palin, or, as our English friends say, she's not the brigfhtest bulb in the box.


BTW May be you've seen it on local TV, but the comment of that communist MP calling the four "pigs" is exactly what the Nazis would have said. No democratic party should deal with this bunch of extremists.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 12):
given that nobody wants a coalition with Roland Koch and the SPD's reputation in Hessen totally destroyed, the only logical choice is to call for early elections for

The FDP does, but then again they don't have a majority. New elections are the answer with Koch running for MP again. That will happen most likely.


Anyway, the four made a right decision since the economic politics on Ypsilanti's agenda would have turned out to be a desaster. One cannot install an enemy of business as an economics minister, who on top of that is a lunatic dreamer who thinks that windmills can power a large economy like Germany. They wanted to stop the development of Frankfurt airport and Kassel airport as well. Mr Scheer, designated economics minister said that Kassel should become a test airfield for air ships. Someone should have told him before that Friedrichshafen is the very place for that since Graf Zeppelin and that the market for airships is rather overseeable.

They have pulled the emergency brake late but that's what emergency brakes are there for. Congratulations to these four upright SPD members of the Landtag.
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NoUFO
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:19 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 12):
Frau Yps blatantly throwing her pledge

Was that supposed to be read "blatantly throwing" or "Mrs Ypsblatantly"?  Silly

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 12):
the choice is between pest and cholera (Not oder Elend),

Thanks for providing the German translation to us common folks not familiar with English.
Actually we say "Pest oder Cholera" in Germany, with Pest meaning as much as the plague - not any form of rodent, I believe.

But I concur, it's good to see at least four members of the SPD opposing the coalition and thus "steal" the necessary majority.
It could be argued if the decision came a bit too late to be considered fair, but somehow I have the feeling that reluctance was probably noticeable - albeit not in the public. Noticeable, unless of course your are blinded by the prospect of becoming Prime Minister.
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:50 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 13):
BTW May be you've seen it on local TV, but the comment of that communist MP calling the four "pigs" is exactly what the Nazis would have said. No democratic party should deal with this bunch of extremists.

What I also don't understand is why Münte goes public to show that he's upset, along with a big fat headline on Focus Online that says "Keine Absolution für Abweichler (No Absolution for those who went against the party line)".

I mean, I thought Münte had more common sense and was against the SPD's Linkskurs? Oh well, I guess it's all about winning the upcoming Bundestagswahlen, because he also hopes that what happened in Hessen, should not affect those elections. Also, with his remarks on Frau Yps losing her majority, it's becoming more and more likely that I'm voting for Angie next year. The only reason why I'd vote for the SPD would then have to be Helmut Schmidt running for Kanzler again, but he's over 90, though still enjoying the good life as editor of Die Zeit and travelling around the world, so we can forget that option.

That being said, my sincerest thanks for those who ended Frau Ypsilanti's powertrip: Jürgen Walter, Dagmar Metzger, Carmen Everts und Silke Tesch.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 14):
Was that supposed to be read "blatantly throwing" or "Mrs Ypsblatantly"?

The first option.  Wink

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 14):
Actually we say "Pest oder Cholera" in Germany, with Pest meaning as much as the plague - not any form of rodent, I believe.

I'm more used to Not oder Elend, which basically means the same, but what can I say, the German language has so many elegant ways of expressing things, it's just unbelievable. 

[Edited 2008-11-03 12:52:04]
 
NoUFO
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:10 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 15):
but what can I say, the German language has so many elegant ways of expressing things, it's just unbelievable.

Especially when it comes to finding elegant synonyms for anguish, famine, plague and other horrors.  Wink

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 15):
What I also don't understand is why Münte goes public to show that he's upset, along with a big fat headline on Focus Online that says "Keine Absolution für Abweichler (No Absolution for those who went against the party line)".

I mean, I thought Münte had more common sense and was against the SPD's Linkskurs?

From what I understand, the timing is what annoyes him. The SPD spent months on negotiations, and on the very last day, three out of the four come out and say they are not going to vote for any administration tolerated by the Socialists. If Müntefering was member of the parliament in Hesse, he would probably be the 5th man opposing the route Ypsilanti had choosen.
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LTU932
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:15 pm



Quoting NoUFO (Reply 16):
If Müntefering was member of the parliament in Hesse, he would probably be the 5th man opposing the route Ypsilanti had choosen.

Nevertheless, Münte's statement doesn't exactly convince me that he is indeed against the Linkskurs. Good thing Steinmeier hasn't said anything, or else it would have had bigger implications on next September, given that Frank-Walter Steinmeier is the SPD's Kanzlerkandidat.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:36 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 15):
What I also don't understand is why Münte goes public to show that he's upset, along with a big fat headline on Focus Online that says "Keine Absolution für Abweichler (No Absolution for

I really don't know if he's more upset about the four or about Ypsilanti acting that stupid. He is a professional and as party chairman he has to make a statement, Of course he cannot cheer the four upright SPD members. That is party politics.


Most of us here work somehow in the airline industry or at least are enthusiasts, It does not matter what your political preference is, we have to respect each other as long as the preference is covered in the democratic spectrum. But I think there is a common platform over the party preferences that today was a good day for aviation in Germany.

Kassel may not play that big a role but still is important, But if Ypsilanti had her run tomorrow, that would have spelled desaster for Rhein-Main. Not only that a declared enemy of business was designated as minister ofr Economics, his state secretary would have been a (I use Juergen Walter's words) religious enemy of the Rhein-Main airport.

My prsonal bet is that de-hubbing of Rhein Main was more likely than a timeley expansion.

I shared a bottle of Rheingau Winzer Sekt (sparkling wine) with my wife on that occasion and I will not hide my Schadenfreude. Why should I, a wish came true.
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LTU932
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:42 pm



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 18):
But if Ypsilanti had her run tomorrow, that would have spelled desaster for Rhein-Main. Not only that a declared enemy of business was designated as minister ofr Economics, his state secretary would have been a (I use Juergen Walter's words) religious enemy of the Rhein-Main airport.

What happened today is not only good for FRA, it's also good for all of Hessen, because it's also an opportunity to start over. The people could then have the choice to finally give Frau Yps the boot for being the liar that she is. I agree with people who said that what Frau Yps did, is nothing more than electoral fraud. It's not electoral fraud through ballot manipulation, but through telling people one thing and immediately throwing everything away for a powertrip.

I just hope for her sake that she's not a sore loser. Even she should now know that early elections are unavoidable, and she will have to face the responsibilites of her lies when the Hessians go back to the polls.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 18):
I shared a bottle of Rheingau Winzer Sekt (sparkling wine) with my wife on that occasion and I will not hide my Schadenfreude. Why should I, a wish came true.

Na dann, Prost!  champagne 
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:41 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 15):

I mean, I thought Münte had more common sense and was against the SPD's Linkskurs? Oh well, I guess it's all about winning the upcoming Bundestagswahlen, because he also hopes that what happened in Hessen, should not affect those elections. Also, with his remarks on Frau Yps losing her majority, it's becoming more and more likely that I'm voting for Angie next year. The only reason why I'd vote for the SPD would then have to be Helmut Schmidt running for Kanzler again, but he's over 90, though still enjoying the good life as editor of Die Zeit and travelling around the world, so we can forget that option.

This is it exactly. A SPD governed Hessen would have changed the majority situation in the Bundesrat, Germany's equivalent to the US Senate. And next year are federal elections, so Münte, no matter if he likes Ypsilanti or not, is hard on party discipline. No mavericks permitted.

Jan
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TheSonntag
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:34 pm

Koch has announced that he will not reintroduce the "Studiengebühren" (university fees) again. That means that if he gets re-elected, this one year of chaos might actually have been quite useful for Hesse... This was one of the points where I really disagreed with the government.
 
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:31 pm

http://www.focus.de/politik/deutschl...t-schaefer-guembel_aid_347068.html

Good news: Frau Yps will not run for the upcoming January 18 elections in Hessen, however she suggested that a relatively unexperienced man with Thomas Schäfer-Gümbel be the next Spitzenkandidat.

And on the bright side, some SPD-Satire from Extra 3.

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBIqDhQiNEM
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:42 pm



If this clown is supposed to challenge Koch in Hessen,the SPD has completely lost it's credibility..(whatever is left ..other than Steinmeier and Münte there's nothing left in credible personalities within the SPD..)
Schröder compared to this amateur -band in Frankfurt was like Obama running against Palin...

That figure is good to play in a remake of " The Adams-family..." Big grin
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Rara
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:48 pm

If he every gets anywhere at all, he'll be wonderful to impersonate with a handpuppet. Muppet style.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:57 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 23):
If this clown is supposed to challenge Koch in Hessen,the SPD has completely lost it's credibility

I tell you, if the SPD does not make dramatic changes until January 18th, then Roland Koch may well find himself with an absolute majority again.

This whole thing has had implications all over the country. Take the SPD in Hamburg for example. Candidate Michael Naumann seemed to feel that the new Linkskurs in Hessen has damaged his campaign, precisely because Frau Yps publically violated her pledge to not talk to the SED, which leads me back to Münte hoping that what happened this week will not affect the upcoming federal elections.

This is where Münte is wrong, it has had effects on the Bundestagswahlen, albeit indirectly. The SPD is losing more and more voters, not just according to the polls but also to the results of elections, the SED, with populist Lafontaine and IM Notar (aka Gregor Gysi), is winning more and more votes (though they fortunately failed in Bayern), and CDU/CSU isn't exactly doing that well either (again, see Bayern) even though they are definitely doing much better than the SPD.
 
na
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:02 pm

That Ypsilanti resigned is good and shows that she unlike her opponent Koch, has some backbone left. A horrible thought that Koch will do it again. They should introduce a law that someone can only serve two terms. The SPD has zero chance, and with a top candidat with the funny looks and the funny name as the totally unknown Schäfer-Gümbel even less so.
It´ll be an awful election, so to say the total opposite of Obama-McCain this week.
Indeed Pest against Cholera. I guess this will be the first time I will NOT vote. There is not party that deserves my vote, and Koch will win anyway. I would possibly vote CDU this time, but only if Koch gets the boot, so no. SPD? No, unlikely, unless the new candidate proves to be a miracle which is 99% unlikely. FDP, the socially reckless party? No, definitely. The Green Party? No, there are too many ignorants and fools in it. The Linke? God forbid. Thats it, the rest is even worse, if there are any.
Time to found a new party that is located in the middle of CDU and SPD. A party that ignores the Semi-Nazis and the greedy bunch now finding a home under Koch, as well as the "Wolkenhuckucksheim"-fraction and left-wingers of the SPD.
 
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:22 pm



Quoting NA (Reply 26):
Indeed Pest against Cholera. I guess this will be the first time I will NOT vote. There is not party that deserves my vote, and Koch will win anyway. I would possibly vote CDU this time, but only if Koch gets the boot, so no. SPD? No, unlikely, unless the new candidate proves to be a miracle which is 99% unlikely. FDP, the socially reckless party? No, definitely. The Green Party? No, there are too many ignorants and fools in it. The Linke? God forbid. Thats it, the rest is even worse, if there are any.

 checkmark  Nice summary. I'm SO grateful I'm not registered in Hesse anymore.

I'm prediction a low turnout because many people will, like you, have no idea who to vote for. What Koch and the SPD did to Hesse is a total disgrace.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:52 am



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 22):
Good news: Frau Yps will not run for the upcoming January 18 elections in Hessen, however she suggested that a relatively unexperienced man with Thomas Schäfer-Gümbel be the next Spitzenkandidat.

The extra3 video is hilarious, thanks for sharing. I liked the titel on the FAZ this morning
"Ypsilani pushes backbencher up front".

She still has nmot under stood anythingt, instead of stepping down and lavong the arena, she placed a puppet on a string and she is pulling th strings from behind.

How stupid does she think the voters are? This guy will be a butt of jokes in no time, There i a buttn with his face already claiming "Ja isch kann" . Anyway, not my problem.,

Most important is that Hesse was saved from that woman and her bunch of clowns, und das ist gut so.




Quoting NA (Reply 26):
That Ypsilanti resigned is good and shows that she unlike her opponent Koch, has some backbone left. A horrible thought that Koch will do it again

You got that wrong. Ypsilanti did not step down except that she does not run for PM herself. The only difference now is that they openly say they will, if it adds up right, form a coalition with the extremist left.

Koch has run Hesse brilliantly for the past 9 years and we can look forward to another 5 years in office., which will be good.

Ypsilanti has demonstrated over and over again, whatever shje did, that she is an amateur fool who can't get anything right, not even her own retreat. She is Germany's equivalent of Sarah Palin.
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na
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:59 pm



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 28):
Koch has run Hesse brilliantly for the past 9 years

I´m living in Frankfurt and I have not noticed nothing about "Koch running Hesse brilliantly". I only meet people, many among them CDU voters, who despise him. The last election was a personal defeat of his person in the first place, even you cannot deny that. That has been widely examined and is proven. Without Koch the last election would have been won by the CDU. ONLY the current bleak economical situation will bring him to power again. A typical "Aussitzer" and "Abstauber", this man.
Also, to add to your comment about the new SPD candidates face (which I find funny, too): Koch is an ugly-faced guy too. He has the perfect face for the dirty man in any "Tatort". Always, when he appears on screen, I feel uneasy.
If Koch wins, its a slap in the face of democracy. People may want the CDU at the helm, but certainly not this man.
 
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:04 pm



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10):

you should meet him in person he is a totally different person than what the media makes out of him He is a brilliant politician and that is dangerous in Germany, If you are brilliant and not left, you will be mpobbed by the media until you are dead. Koch defeated all this and stands above matters, whatever Hessoischer rundfunk says. I met hoim many times, heard many speeches, this man runs the state like a business and that's the way to do it., He is not anti but pro foreigners. But he is against that foreigners absuing our state and even the most left winger will agree that this is the case in many ways.

I would prefer to take him by his actions. Therefore I can only judge him as a reckless xenophobic person. If he is such a nice person in private, why does he campaign with fear against foreigners and minorities?

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 13):

But OK, if you want to be manipulated by the media, your problem. It's a democracy and you don't have to like him. But may be you agree that Miss Ypsilanti is about as bright as Sarah Palin, or, as our English friends say, she's not the brigfhtest bulb in the box.

I am sure there is no politician in Germany as dump as Palin. They all find Africa (I am talking about the continent, not the country... Wink on the map....

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 13):

BTW May be you've seen it on local TV, but the comment of that communist MP calling the four "pigs" is exactly what the Nazis would have said. No democratic party should deal with this bunch of extremists.

I think you people make a big difference in comparing the Linksparty with extremists. You have not understand anything what these party is like. They are ridiculous and dangerous for the economy, but they are no extremists. And comparing them with the Nazis puts you closer to Palin than any of them is.
The Leftparty in Hesse is a bunch of socialists and labor union members who were disappointed with the social reforms of the former government.

Therefore poeple need to calm down and come to terms with our new 5-party system. It is unfortunate that we have them, but I am afraid we can't get rid of the lefts anymore. And I am happy that they are no real thread for the society as the Nazis were. The lefts might try to ruin our economy but the democracy is safe and no citizen and no foreigner is harmed. That gives us every opportunity elect them or not....
 
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:19 pm

Well, I know many who want him and who agree that he's done an excellent job. May be you are a victim of a press campaign which is run against Koch since 10 years and longer,

It's always different when you know a guy personally and no one can deny that is is brilliantly eloquent. I have heard dozens of speeches live and more on TV, there is no one in the CDU to challenge him and certainly not oin the SPD in Hesse. The only guy that comes close of being a match is Al-Wazir

Koch knows himself that he has not done well in the last election. The campaign was too short, he had a cold and was filled up with medication which did not help either, but woirse, his words were twisted by the media over and over again. It's been like that since he first ran fir PM in Hesse. The mediaq was furious over the € 500,00 fee per semester for university students. tell that to someone in the US and they ask, what, that little? Same about the 8 years higher education, Now, every Land in Germany had introduced that, why should Hesse be the only one with 9 years?

Same with 40 - 42 hour work weeks for civil servants, Mrs Y never explained how she would finance going back to the old tariff with 38 hours, More, she told people that she would put mor cops on the streets, beautriful, more cops at 38 hours may be less in overall numbers than the current number of cops at a 42 hour week. The media does not even make up that simple calculation, Mrs Y fooled the voters here as well and the media claps their hands. But Koch is alway the bad guy, because he makes unpopular decisions but which help the Lands finances. The only problem was that the CDU had the absolute majority and was not checked and balanced by the FDP, which many of us would have preferred..

I prefer an MP who manages the state of Hesse like a coorporation and does what nees to be done, without ideology. The main reason why the SPD is doing so bad is that they follow stupid ideologies which may sound fine in theorie but never work in practice. I still shudder when I think that a lunatic dreamer like Scheer would be the economics minister today. Someone who is an enemy of industry except the one that pays him as a lobbyist. The damages of an Ypsilanti administration would have been irrepairable and I thank the four upright SPD MPs every day that they followed their conscience and did not vote for that desaster to come.

To be honest, I could not image that Juergen Walter, whom I also know personlaly would have done it.

Koch will run as number one and it is up to the members of the CDU to nominate him. It is up to the voters to get him into office and I don't see how that is not going to happen. I prefer a coaltition with the FDP however.

Ypsilanti again screwed it up. The SPD and the new guy would eventually had a chance of she had retired from all posts in the SPD: She retains party chief and chief of the parliamentary fraction. That makes the new guy a puppet on the string so obviously that even the most stupid voter will see that. What if the SPD could theoretically again have a coaltion with the greens and the communists? The new guy could then say, oops sorry, I did not mean that and my family comes firets, Ypsilanti will be doing the job,

Since the state MP is elected by the members of the parliament and NOT by the people, this is a theoretical possibilty. Mrs Y lost her credibility totally, my 2 cents is , she would run that coup if only she could and the result of the decisions made yetsreday leave that option open..

,

, . .
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na
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:16 pm

PanHam,

to know a politician personally can, and mostly will, obstruct someone´s view onto the realities. Koch was mediocre at best, not brilliant. His education policy is a mess, I know many people who say that the school system has become far worse under his reign. He IS xenophobic, or behaves like it in public, what is the same for us out there. Thats WHY there are media campaigns against him. He stood in front of Kohl, when he said that a word of honour is more important than law. If its about do or die, thats ok, but if its mainly protecting rich friends´s dubious methods, money and reputation, I don´t think so.
 
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:43 pm



Quoting JoFMO (Reply 30):
I would prefer to take him by his actions. Therefore I can only judge him as a reckless xenophobic person. If he is such a nice person in private, why does he campaign with fear against foreigners and minorities?

Thats what the media tells you. He does not do that, Koch is for the integration of the people coming to us. The campaign 9 years ago was against double citizenship, not against foreigners. The stand against dual citizenship is pro inztegration. That is the policy and Hesse has a lot of programs in that direction. However, people have to tae it.

As an assemblyman, I know that the counties offered German language lessons for next to nothing, the attendance was disappointing. You can lead a hoirse to the water, but you can't make it drink (I am not comparing women with horses, except may be Mrs Y.)



Quoting JoFMO (Reply 30):
I am sure there is no politician in Germany as dump as Palin.

How would you call it that Mrs. Y is attempting to run agaoinmst the same wall for the third time? Fixing a muppet as a cushion to her head ain't that smart.

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 30):
I think you people make a big difference in comparing the Linksparty with extremists. You have not understand anything what these party is like. They are ridiculous and dangerous for the economy, but they are no extremists

No, it is a big mistake not to do that. They are left wing extremists and they even use Nazi lingo., it is totally inappropiate for a deputy parliament president to call the 4 SPD members who elected not to vote "pigs" and that is exactly nazi lingo in taht context. The SED/PDS/Linkspartei is a red-brown party and they are not much differenmt to the brown-red. .

This party in hesse even spoied on their own members and had movement patterns spied out. There is nothing democratoic about the, they are anti democrats.

No, we don't have to calm down about that, we have to stand up against radicals of all sorts and colours. Germany should have done that before 1933. Don't let us repeat mistakes.

Quoting NA (Reply 32):
has become far worse under his reign. He IS xenophobic, or behaves like it in public, what is the same for us out there

I explained above that Koch is not xenophobic. His remarks have been twisted over and over again by the media. You know yourself that it is easy and simple just to leave a few words out, when quotiung a sentence and a totally different meaning comes out. Kochs mistake was to walk on that thi n ice. he should simply have been quite about the crimes by young guys in Munich and frankfurt,m beating old people alomst to death.

But then, the same journalists would have punished him for not having an opinion about that.

It does not matter of a youth is a born German, a naturalised citizen or has a foreign passport, attacks against people cannot be toleratet. Period. The other question is, why should we have people with foreign nationalities who con´tinuously committed crimes and did not accept help offered to them, allow to stay in this country? This has to be discussed, since these people harm everybody, they don't ask for the nbationality when they beat and almost up innocent people.

The answer should be obvious. Try that behaviour anywhere in the world and you are either in jail and extradieted later or you go on the next flight sztraight away. Call that xenophoboic oif you want, but then the whole world, all over the races, is xenophobic.
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Rara
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:08 pm



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 33):
Thats what the media tells you.

Usually whenever a CDU politician has run his course, the party starts crying about the evil media. Not an exclusive CDU phenomenon, but notable nonetheless.

Simply put, Koch is a man who, when he saw his campaign threatened to fail, without hesitation began campaigning against foreigners, just like he did when he was first elected. Reliable sources say that this is not actually his position and he's all for integration. Well I don't care. The fact that he's willing to plough the extreme right-wing if it serves his interest disqualifies him from office, whatever he stands for "normally".

You don't toy with that, period.
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:07 pm



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10):
meet him in person he is a totally different person than what the media makes out of him He is a brilliant politician and that is dangerous

-
I just like most people seldom met leading politicians "in person" ever. How to be "made out of by the media" is what makes a politician a success or a failure. If a politician is on the right side he/she has to appeal to the right side press and be acceptable or interesting to the left side press, if he/she is on the left side he/she has to appeal to the left side side and be acceptable or interesting to the right side press. To be a politican is not an abstract affair like being a scientist or a university professor, it is a business about reaching out to the people.
-

Quoting Klaus (Reply 11):
his intensely xenophobic campaigns

-
THIS is what "went abroad" news wise about him
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I just read about "Ypsilanti" and the family of her former husband, whose family name she and her son still carry. Quite interesting. And to see that a former stewardess becomes "greenish" leftist ............
 
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:42 pm



Quoting Rara (Reply 34):
Simply put, Koch is a man who, when he saw his campaign threatened to fail, without hesitation began campaigning against foreigners

you are still wrong and you can repeat that as many times as you want, you remain wrong.

Kochs campaign was against hooligans who almost beat an old man (70+) = to death in a Munich subway. The hooligans happened to be foreigners. Kochs campaign was against hooligans.

The media can twist that any way they want. That's a fact. A proven fact.
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:17 pm



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 36):
Kochs campaign was against hooligans.

The media can twist that any way they want. That's a fact. A proven fact.

The media in fact reported his campaign to have been against hooligans and against violent people. But HIS wording sounded as if ANY violence came from "foreigners". HIS presentation of this was wrong. And he failed to present his policies positively. And such a politician is a bad politician.
-
That the leftwing media jumped upon this unique opportunity is obvious. But such is not the fault of "the" media but of a politician unable to sell his cause
 
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:40 pm



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 36):

Kochs campaign was against hooligans who almost beat an old man (70+) = to death in a Munich subway. The hooligans happened to be foreigners. Kochs campaign was against hooligans.

LOL, total coincidence really.  Smile They just "happened" to be foreigners. Why did Koch see a need to "campaign" against them, did he not trust Bavarian authorities to deal with them appropriately? In what way was the Munich incident relevant to the Hesse election?

You can twist it all you like, his choice of words (putting the stress on criminal foreigners), his "stop the communists and Al-Wazir" poster etc. were part of a strategy that was very well orchestrated. Don't tell me Koch is too naive to know how the public and the media will react to this kind of campaigning. He's a full-blooded politician and an absolute professional.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:14 am



Quoting Rara (Reply 38):
need to "campaign" against them

there wqas a similar incident at the same time in hesse. get a transcript of "Hart aber Fair" and read the complete wording. You will see that you are wrong.

Get yourself a copy of the budget of the State of Hesse. There are numerour prograns for the integration of foreigners in Hesse. To say that Koch is xenophobic is utterly wrong.

Quoting Rara (Reply 38):
You can twist it all you like, his choice of words (putting the stress on criminal foreigners), his "stop the communists and Al-Wazir

You just twisted it yourself. The complete sentence is "Stop Ypsilanti, Al-Waziur and the communists."

Whats wrong about that in an election campaign? What do you expect the CDU to put on their posters? Stop Ypsilanti etc. was the equivalent to "Koch muss weg"., absoluteley legitimate. You live in Frankfurt, right? Do you remember the posters of the SPD? Its just a year ago. We are for..... he is.. ... .

All these were wrong implications, assumptions and hits below the belt.

OK, it s an election campaign. But don't complain about solgans when your own are worse.
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na
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:38 pm

The lighter side:


http://www.spiegel.de/spam/
Koch nimmt Schäfer-Gümbel ernst!/Koch takes Schäfer-Gümbel serious!
From left to right: "We don´t need large billboards, do we..." "Maybe be 10 Flyers." "15, lets play safe."
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:54 pm

Well- I would play it safe and print at least 25... Big grin
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:56 pm

Nice joke. But neither Spiegel nor SPD should worry about this, Koch is all business and he never takes anything on the light side. The CDU will run a professional campaign and contrary to the SPD they have learned from past mistakes..

The SPD has already programmed the new dirt campaign against Koch. That starts with Muentefering refering to Koch as "him" as if Mr. Koch is the devil personally. they know why they do that, defaming is the only small chance they have. At least they can reach plane Jane ands dumb Detlef with that.
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na
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:59 pm



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 42):
The CDU will run a professional campaign

So he learned something and will do it totally different to the last one, good to hear. Last time he went fishing in a pond full of brownish mud and was surprised to be covered with shit afterwards.
 
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:33 pm



Quoting NA (Reply 43):
So he learned something and will do it totally different to the last one, good to hear. Last time he went fishing in a pond full of brownish mud and was surprised to be covered with shit afterwards.

Yes, unlike Mrs Y he learned from mistakes and no, he did not fish in a brownish mud. The CDU may have turned a bit more to the left, but they never ever fish in socialist ponds, not in the red-brown and not in the national socialsts brown - red pond either.

Just read the interview with Spiegel online, there is nothing radical about Mr. Koch and his political views. One can't say that about Mrs. Y. unfortunately.
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:00 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 23):
If this clown is supposed to challenge Koch in Hessen,the SPD has completely lost it's credibility..(whatever is left .

He looks a bit like Elton - TV comedian Stefan Raab´s own private Sancho Panza  Smile
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na
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:13 pm



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 44):
Yes, unlike Mrs Y he learned from mistakes and no, he did not fish in a brownish mud. The CDU may have turned a bit more to the left, but they never ever fish in socialist ponds, not in the red-brown and not in the national socialsts brown - red pond either.

In no big German party were and are so many sympathisers with far rightwing connections and opinions than in the CDU. Period. Koch as a person may not, others yes. And, yes, his last campaign DID fish in the brown mud of the ultra-rights.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 44):
Just read the interview with Spiegel online, there is nothing radical about Mr. Koch and his political views. One can't say that about Mrs. Y. unfortunately.

I would say both stand on positions equally far away from the middle. Point is, where is the middle? I guess, you simply define it a good deal more to the right than me. Koch is no extremist, but you can preach as much as you want that Koch is a nice guy, you won´t get me as I´m as much convinced he´s not.
 
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:53 pm



Quoting NA (Reply 46):
In no big German party were and are so many sympathisers with far rightwing connections

Who told you that? The other point, the NPD ois not a right wing party. They are anti globalisation, anti USA, anti Israel, anti EU, they have more or less the same political agenda the SED/Linke has. All these issues are contrary to what the CDU stands for., Don't mix up things, the NPD is an extreme left wing party, their voters cross over to the SED/Linke and vice versa. Lafo knows that, remember what he said on a rally in Chemnitz)


I am in know way attempting to convince you to anything, but you should develop an own opiniuon, you are young enough to do that, Independet means that you don't get messed up by the media, Read papers that have different political alignments.never believe what they tell you on TV, the private channels are total trash and ARD and ZDF biased to the left. watch CNN and BBC World, the latter is one of the best,

Think over issues, what is left, what is right. If right means conservative, the SED/Linke is the most conservative party in Germany, together with the NPD. They want to reinstate yesteryear issues that have been proven wrong and catastrophic. The SPD is heading in that direction with the Ypsilantis and her followers.

Koch however is following a modern line, he does what has to be done to build a modern infrastructiure which the economy needs to function, he is managing the state tro function the best possible way and that is in the interest of the people. I am not a fan of Schroeder, but he once said that there is no right or left politics, there is only good politics. Agenda 2010 was good politics, it did not go as far as needed, but was better than nothing.

BTW - a prime minister does not have to be a nice guy, he has to be competent and has to have a brilliant intellect. Koch is brilliant, he is quick in thinking and has an analytical mind, much as Obama. he's lacking Obamas charisma, agreed. But Koch is an intellectual, whereas Mrs, Y looks better.
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:26 pm



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 47):
Don't mix up things, the NPD is an extreme left wing party

You're quite lonely with that bizarre assessment.

Their aggressive nationalism, tribal chauvinism, racism and antisemitism clearly puts them on the right fringe right next to their role models, the pre-'45 nazis.

These basic convictions are quite similar to those held by some people in the CDU/CSU to varying degrees, and Koch loves playing to exactly that audience as the past campaigns have shown, no matter how filthy that makes him.
 
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RE: Good News In Hesse / Germany

Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:48 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 48):
Their aggressive nationalism, tribal chauvinism, racism and antisemitism clearly puts them on the right fringe right next to their role models, the pre-'45 nazis.

-
correct. Interesting however is that voters of rightwing-extremists can vote extreme left next time and voters of leftwing-extremists extreme rightwing next time. Extremists on both sides find their voters among frustrated, bitter and disgruntled people.

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