smcmac32msn
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:40 pm

This thread is for those of us who want the "main" two canidates to prove themselves to us when one wins. They've now talked the talk, can the winner, walk the walk??? Don't come in here and rip us for our thoughts, if you don't like it, LEAVE!

I think both canidates need to prove to us that what they said on the campaign trail, they follow up on.... I voted for Bob Barr and if you don't like either canidate outright, its not a bad path to follow to show that America doesn't trust either Obama or McCain.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
slider
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:53 pm

HUAH!

I'm glad there are other like-minded free thinking third party advocates out there who treasure true liberty and freedom.
 
smcmac32msn
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:55 pm

Not many of us out there, but I'm hoping it catches on.... The longer we go in this current system, the worse it seems to get.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
lowrider
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:56 pm

How about Baldwin/Castle from the Constitution Party?
Proud OOTSK member
 
smcmac32msn
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:58 pm

Any 3rd party canidate is welcome here. I just figured Libertarian party seemed to be the biggest 3rd party out there, so thats why I did Bob Barr's name. Can you inform us about Baldwin/Castle?
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
DLPMMM
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:58 pm

I have been a Libertarian for almost 30 years (Ed Clark ring a bell?), but I can't pull for Barr. Why is he bringing religion into a sectarian party?
 
MadameConcorde
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:05 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 1):

I am one who did not chose either Obama or McCain in the non-US voters poll thread. I chose a Third Party candidate instead, Ralph Nader, but I also mentioned the other Third Party candidates such as Ron Paul and Chuck Baldwin.

Barack Obama and John McCain are both candidates of fthe Establishment. I don't believe much change has to be expected from them. I always prefer non-conformists and non-mainstream candidates especially in this election. I believe real change will come from them, not from candidates from the Establishment.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
smcmac32msn
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:06 pm



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 5):
Why is he bringing religion into a sectarian party?

I haven't really seen that so much, but I think its a little bit of a hot button topic (or could soon be again on the Federal level) right now. Whit the gay-rights marriage problems going through different states, he is just stating his side. If you can explain....
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
lowrider
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:16 pm



Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 4):
Can you inform us about Baldwin/Castle?

www.constitutionparty.com

Basically they have a lot of overlap with libertarian viewpoints, but with a stronger Originalist slant. They want to abolish a number of federal agencies, such as the Department of Education and the Department of Energy. They call several recent conflicts "unconstitutional wars", and generally are mildly isolationist. They call for the withdrawal of the US from any treaty or organization which is not beneficial to the US, and favor private charity over government welfare.

If you like Barr, you might like Baldwin, too.
Proud OOTSK member
 
JakeOrion
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:28 pm

Oh thank god some netters are on the same page as me. Even though I'm a Republican, I'm voting for Barr all the way. Both main party canidates are knuckle heads and have yet to address any issues in their speeches. Plus, both voting for that bail-out bill just really drove the nail in the coffin.
Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
 
smcmac32msn
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:31 pm



Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 9):
Plus, both voting for that bail-out bill just really drove the nail in the coffin.

Oh my god, if I had 2 hours, I'd just go off on this whole thing. Simply put, what the hell happened to capitalism? Ya know, if a company does bad business, they shrivel up, die, and another company comes in to replace them. Where are the FDIC and NCUA in this???
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
JakeOrion
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:38 pm



Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 10):
Where are the FDIC and NCUA in this???

Paid off or busy enjoying the $20,000+ resorts the CEO's went to after the bill passed. But we are getting off topic on this so best to drop it.
Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
 
smcmac32msn
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:40 pm



Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 11):
But we are getting off topic on this so best to drop it.

Thank you.  bigthumbsup 
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
smcmac32msn
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:58 pm

One thing I do want to bring up is something about the election. Is it me, or do the Republicans know they are way behind in the polls so they are lying and cheating to try to keep people from voting. Some of the rumors I've heard are like the ones in Virginia that there will be 2 elections "Republicans on Tuesday, Democrats on Wednesday". Obviously this is a slant to try to win Virginia by not having any democrats vote. Are the Republicans (not so much McCain, but the GOP workers) that desperate for votes that they will comprimise an entire election to have their party win?
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
slider
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:21 pm



Quoting Lowrider (Reply 3):
How about Baldwin/Castle from the Constitution Party?



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 5):
I have been a Libertarian for almost 30 years (Ed Clark ring a bell?), but I can't pull for Barr.

I am so happy to commiserate with fellow independents, notably the Libertarians.

There is a clamoring, a hunger, a real true yearning among so many Americans who are real patriots, Constitutionalists and individuals. There is that groundswell of the silent majority like Goldwater once spoke of, and they see a crisis in this nation no matter who the winner is of two bad choices. Although I personally believe that the ‘lesser of two evils’ construct is BS and we should vote our conscience no matter what and not compromise or accept evil in the first place, there is one that is more on the edge this cycle. But with that said, isn’t that MORE reason to vote your conscience?

The media has been part of the problem, so clearly to me. Voting is one small way to set that tent stake in the ground and draw a line in the sand. We need more outspoken patriots like Ron Paul who isn’t afraid to speak the truth.

For a long time, I’ve been a recovering Republican and find myself more closely aligned with both the LP and Constitution Party. It troubles me greatly that the LP is America’s largest third party but we still can’t get our act together and the party continues to allow itself to be hijacked by the fringe (ie: the pro-marijuana people for instance). The message gets diluted as a result of that and a lack of true cogent communications strategy.

I once bought numerous copies of Harry Browne’s landmark “What it Means to Be a Libertarian” book and have given them out often to people who are interested. I really miss Harry because he was such a dominant intellectual guy who could explain the concepts so clearly. I voted for him too. Just wish there were someone with some real charisma and draw that could change the paradigm.

It’s not going to be the new president, a new Congress, a new economic policy, or new legislation or any magic silver bullet or smoking gun that changes America.

It is us.
 
LMP737
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:55 pm

The problem with the Libertarian Party is that it seems to be attracting some rather unstable individuals.

http://www.barrettforcongress.us/

http://www.lp.org/states/Wisconsin
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
smcmac32msn
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:08 pm



Quoting LMP737 (Reply 15):
The problem with the Libertarian Party is that it seems to be attracting some rather unstable individuals.

Why don't you corroberate why they are "unstable" instead of just linking us to sites with a bunch of names. What is unstable about any of the people on the 2nd link?
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
MadameConcorde
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:15 pm

What do you call Libertarians in the U.S.? In my home country libertarian means anarchist or at least someone close enough to being an anarchist, not an ultra-liberal.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
smcmac32msn
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:24 pm

Libertarian is another word for Liberty.

"In liberty and justice for all!"

"and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Something this contry has gotten away from in the last 30 years or so.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
MadameConcorde
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:30 pm



Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 18):

I see. Thanks for explaining. It is totally different from what we use the word for over here, nothing in common with being an anarchist.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
LMP737
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:32 pm



Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 16):
Why don't you corroberate why they are "unstable" instead of just linking us to sites with a bunch of names. What is unstable about any of the people on the 2nd link?


The second link was to show that Kevin Barrett is an official canidate of the Libertarian Party and not someone claiming to be Libertarian. Read up on him and you will see what I mean.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
lowrider
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:35 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 17):
What do you call Libertarians in the U.S.?

The best bumper sticker summation of Libertarian beliefs I have heard is that "The government should delivery the mail, defend the borders, pave the roads, and stay out of everything else". They are not anarchists, but believe that government should stay out of people's lives to the maximum extent possible. Government has a very small, narrowly defined role. Much like the general population, it has gotten too fat and overfed, and this is not healthy for anyone involved.
Proud OOTSK member
 
srbmod
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:23 pm

Add me into the list of members who voted for Bob Barr. I was already planning to vote Libertarian this election regardless of who got the Democratic or Republican nods, as none of the candidates that had a real shot at being their party's nominee really interested me. I've found myself becoming more and more in tune with what the LP stands for.

Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 4):
Any 3rd party canidate is welcome here. I just figured Libertarian party seemed to be the biggest 3rd party out there, so thats why I did Bob Barr's name.

They've gotten the Barr-Root slate on the ballot in 45 states (and have write in status in D.C.). The only states they're not on the ballot in are Louisiana, Maine, West Virginia, Oklahoma, and Connecticut. That's pretty damn good when you consider the mishmash of ballot access laws that make it difficult (if not close to impossible) for a third party to have a slate on the ballot.

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 8):
www.constitutionparty.com

Basically they have a lot of overlap with libertarian viewpoints, but with a stronger Originalist slant. They want to abolish a number of federal agencies, such as the Department of Education and the Department of Energy. They call several recent conflicts "unconstitutional wars", and generally are mildly isolationist. They call for the withdrawal of the US from any treaty or organization which is not beneficial to the US, and favor private charity over government welfare.

If you like Barr, you might like Baldwin, too.

Too right wing for my tastes. They make McCain look like a left winger. While they do have some libertarian ideals in their platform, they've also got a lot of Christian Conservative ideals as well (That definitely contradicts the aspects of libertarianism as well as what the Founding Fathers believed in and wanted for the nation.).
 
LMP737
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:57 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
but I also mentioned the other Third Party candidates such as Ron Paul

Ron Paul is not a third party canidate. He ran for the Republican nomination and lost, lost badly.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
srbmod
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:18 pm



Quoting LMP737 (Reply 23):

There was a group of supporters that were trying to get him to seek the LP nomination, but he was more focused on winning the Republican primary for his Congressional district. Heck, even former Democratic presidential candidate Mike Gravel made a bid for the LP nomination.
 
NASCARAirforce
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:19 pm

I voted for Bob Barr also. I don't trust McCain or Obama. As a matter of fact in my whole voting life I have always voted for a 3rd party candidate starting with Ross Perot back in 1996, followed by a Libertarian guy in 2000 - forgot his name now, I voted for Michael Badnarik in 2004 who is Libertarian and for Barr this time.

I really wanted Ron Paul to run since I liked this guy's ideas.

I am hoping Jesse "the Body" Ventura runs in 2012 - you may laugh because he is an ex pro wrestler, but if you ever listened to this guy's ideas he has a lot of common sense.

I was very disappointed in my Florida ballot - no other offices other than president were there any 3rd party candidates running.
 
flyf15
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:25 pm

We really need another choice and every vote for a 3rd party is one step closer towards getting one. Maybe not this time or next time, but eventually.
 
StuckInCA
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:29 pm

I'd love to have a third (or more) party somehow more "officially" involved. I don't think that voting for someone other than a Democrat or Republican really accomplishes anything in this election.

I completely respect everyone's right to vote for whomever they choose, but these people stand NO chance in this election.

I think that the responsible thing to do (my opinion) is choose which candidate/party (of the two - - Democrat or Republican) is most acceptable to you and most well aligned to your views and priorities. I'm sure many people disagree with this view. I guess I think that if you have any preference for one of the D or R candidates over the other then that should be who you vote for or you've done the same as not voting at all.

But then there's the whole electoral college thing that makes me think the whole voting process is a bit of a sham anyway...
 
lowrider
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:38 pm



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 22):
They make McCain look like a left winger.

Look at his history. He is. He has only recently embraced the right wing because he can't win without them.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 22):
While they do have some libertarian ideals in their platform, they've also got a lot of Christian Conservative ideals as well (That definitely contradicts the aspects of libertarianism as well as what the Founding Fathers believed in and wanted for the nation.).

Not necessarily, but I fear that debate will run far outside the scope of this thread.
Proud OOTSK member
 
dc863
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:36 pm

I voted for Barr myself. I disliked both McCain and Obama.
 
AvObserver
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Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:48 pm

I wanted to vote for Baldwin, despite his Christian right leanings I don't agree with because he's strong against illegal immigration which I feel will doom the U.S. in time if not brought under control. In the end, however, I had to pull for McCain since he was the only shot at stopping Obama. I consider McCain largely a traitor to conservatives, especially on the illegal immigration issue but he's vastly preferable to me than the hard-left Obama who won't truly secure our borders before implementing a comprehensive immigration reform plan like the failed one McCain co-sponsered with Ted Kennedy last year.
 
smcmac32msn
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RE: Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:19 am



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 27):
I think that the responsible thing to do (my opinion) is choose which candidate/party (of the two - - Democrat or Republican) is most acceptable to you and most well aligned to your views and priorities.

Why do we have to fall in line with Democrats or Republicans? I'd prefer to have my own line of thought and processes, thank you very much. I do see different viewpoints on topics that span both "major" parties, but at the same time we have a choice in those two parties........ money&tons of government, or no money&tons of government. Libertarian (as well as a lot of other 3rd parties) allow us to have money and very little government oversight. Obama has no leadership experience, while McCain is too short-sighted (ie - continuing this current financial mess) for Americas good. I'd rather have somebody that realizes that the government needs to live within its own budget, much as we do at this current time.

Here where I live (in Milwaukee County, WI) we had 2 referendums, sickeningly, pass because both forms of government needed more money. The first was a investigational measure to raise our county sales tax 1% from 0.6% to 1.6% (Overall 6.6% while the rest of the state is at 5% or 5.5%) while lowering property taxes by $67 million dollars. Half of Milwaukee County lives in multi-unit dwellings, meaning that people paying property tax on a single unit house currently would recieve a $89 credit, would be getting a tax decrease of $3 for all 1.5 million people to cover the $130 million estimated revenue. Meanwhile, I, along with 1/2 the rest of the county would not see our rents go down with the property tax returns, but now would be getting double-taxed by this new tax.

The other was a $14.9 million dollar referendum for the St. Francis school district to build a new science lab. Why couldn't they have saved during the economic good times. By the way, they sent out 2 post cards a week for the last 6 weeks to me to try to get me to vote yes, the estimate is they spent $300k on these postcards. Why?
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:56 am

Oh well, one more proof that a good majority of people are sheep and they beliieve everything they are told!! Now this time again it's so obvious!!  laughing 

I guess they will be much less happy and not smiling when they will see the tax hykes some months from now to finance more wars and all the other bad suprises to come. Reality will strike soon enough for them to realize that it will be the same all over again, the expected miracles won't happen

I am sad to see that there is no room for independent candidates. The one with the most money and the biggest campaign wins.  ashamed 
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
wn700driver
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RE: Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:41 am

Though I could have tolerated McCain & Palin (Who btw is not nearly as fringy as the DNC owned media would have us believe...), I had to vote my conscience.

I was hoping that Ron Paul would make some sort of Perot-esque entrance into the race, maybe around mid-august, but it obviously never happened.  Sad

I voted for Barr. I don't agree with the party's stand on same sex marraige (I just don't see why gays should be exempt from the same torture that every married man must endure  Wink --but I do agree that it is a State's Rights issue-- ), and a few other things, like banning wicca from the military (Who really cares about that anyway?.) But I do like things like a Fair Tax, Barr's openly regretting voting for the infamous Patriot Act, and being against the War on Drugs.

I know the guy's changed positions on a few things. But it is really pathetic when I can find out such things about a third party candidate much easier than I can about the guy who actually won the race. Says a lot about transparency.
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
smcmac32msn
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RE: Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:15 pm



Quoting WN700Driver (Reply 33):
I know the guy's changed positions on a few things. But it is really pathetic when I can find out such things about a third party candidate much easier than I can about the guy who actually won the race. Says a lot about transparency.

The nice thing is, 3rd party canidates put all the info they want you to know on their website. They don't go around bashing other canidates, and best of all, they are honest. Yes, Bob Barr has flipped his position ona few topics, but he's ex-sheep so it is somewhat understandable.

I must say though, McCain is a very decent individual and he praised Obama in his concession speech, and I have a lot of respect for him as a man. Most of the Republican party didn't care about the issues, all they cared about was finding flaws in Obama. McCain stuck to the issues and congratulated Obama in the end. I really am starting to think the rest of the Republican party is what won Obama the election. Both guys tried to stick to the issues bugging us today, while the parties just ripped eachother apart. The Republican party did much worse in the election day rumors that were put out there though, and that caused people to think maybe thats how the government will be run if we let them in office.

Either way, Obama still has to prove to us (the 3rd partiers) that he will follow through on what he says in the campaign to maybe re-elect him in 4 years.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
slider
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RE: Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:26 pm

Hooray for Dean Barkley!

He garnered 15% of the US Senate vote in Minnesota and now the Coleman-Franken race is TIED.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/...UoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUUsZ

I love it. An independent got traction. Great to see some disruption in the status quo a bit; hopefully it will awaken and encourage others.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:46 pm

I am very conservative on things when it comes to fiscal policies and finance, but I am very liberal when it comes to stuff involving my personal social choices - usually libertarians fall that way - keep government involvement out of just about everything.
 
ThePRGuy
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RE: Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:24 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):

You have pretty bizarre ways of thinking to be honest, especially considering you live in monaco?!

A vote for a independent is like not bothering to vote at all - might as well just go and tear the ballot paper up.

Tactical voting, sadly, is the only way that voting will work, and it will never change
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:33 pm



Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 31):
Why do we have to fall in line with Democrats or Republicans?

You don't. But in this presidential election, like most, a vote for anyone other than Democrat or Republican is as useful as not voting. Perhaps you can say you "made a statement," but I'm not too sure about that. As I said, I completely respect that choice. I just think that if you have any rational way to prefer one of the two candidates who WILL win, the responsible thing is to express your preference.

Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 31):
I'd prefer to have my own line of thought and processes, thank you very much.

OK. I could write in Homer Simpson too. Would it make a point?

We need to change the system so that more parties are genuinely involved and have realistic chance at election.
 
slider
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RE: Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:42 pm

http://www.reason.com/news/show/129858.html

A look inside the Barr campaign...quite illuminating and some very candid thoughts.

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 38):
A vote for a independent is like not bothering to vote at all - might as well just go and tear the ballot paper up.

This is where the lemmings in the two major parties and the independents will always strongly disagree. You look it at as us wasting our vote. We look it as voting our conscience and not compromising on principle.

Considering even the most stalwart D and R party members often parrot the “lesser of two evils” mantra, I’d say to all of those that I denounce evil period. I want a candidate that will follow the US Constitution. That is inviolable to me. Therefore, standing up for liberty, freedom and the republic is NEVER a waste.

I would respectfully submit to the two-party hacks that it is THEY who are wasting their vote. If you continue to do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve had. And that will get worse.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:08 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 35):
I love it. An independent got traction. Great to see some disruption in the status quo a bit; hopefully it will awaken and encourage others.

Absolutely. I'd love to see some nationwide numbers on the total independent vote. Those of us who voted for neither candidate seem to be way ahead of the game  Wink
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
srbmod
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RE: Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:49 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 39):
This is where the lemmings in the two major parties and the independents will always strongly disagree. You look it at as us wasting our vote. We look it as voting our conscience and not compromising on principle.



Remember, at one time, the Republican Party was a third party. It rose to power only as the result of the Whig Party splitting apart (Some members formed the Know Nothing Party and other formed the Free Soil Party, both of which were short-lived third parties whose members eventually joined the nascent Republican Party) on the issue of slavery.

While there have been some strong third parties over the last century (Progressive/Bull Moose, Dixiecrats, American Independent, Reform), they never seem to be able to make it to the next level. The last third party candidate to win any states was George Wallace (A.I.P) back in 1968 when he won Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Georgia (Wallace also received 1 of NC's electoral votes from a faithless elector). The Libertarian Party is the last third party to receive an electoral vote, as back in 1972, one of Virginia's electoral votes was cast for the LP candidate by a faithless elector. It looked like the Reform Party was going to be a strong contender, but like with many third parties, internal squabbles and splits along faction lines quashed the strength of the party. Of all of the third parties, I would give the Libertarian Party the best shot at becoming the third party that seriously challenges the two party system. If they shifted a little more towards the center, they could attract disgruntled Democrats and Republicans who dislike their parties moving further away from the center. The only thing standing in their way is the mishmash of restrictive ballot access laws across the country that makes it very difficult for third parties to field candidates.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:52 pm



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 41):
The only thing standing in their way is the mishmash of restrictive ballot access laws across the country that makes it very difficult for third parties to field candidates.

An instant runoff system in all open primaries would certainly change the landscape considerably.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:28 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 40):

Absolutely. I'd love to see some nationwide numbers on the total independent vote. Those of us who voted for neither candidate seem to be way ahead of the game

Here it is:
Ralph Nader 659,943
Bob Barr 490,295
Chuck Baldwin 175,560
Cynthia McKinney 143,462
Alan Keyes 35,108
Ron Paul 19,582
Gloria LaRiva 7,578
Roger Calero 7,184
Brian Moore 6,393
None Of The Above 6,251
Richard Duncan 3,677
James Harris 2,426
Charles Jay 2,311
John Joseph Polachek 1,223

GRAND TOTAL: 1,560,993
Total % of the votes: 1.2%

http://election.cbsnews.com/election2008/president.shtml

Yes you donkeys and elephants, in some states they had a choice to vote for NOBODY, if you think we are wasting 1.56 million voices, remember, there were 6251 people who voted for NOBODY! Let that grab you for a minute.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
slider
Posts: 6817
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:04 pm



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 41):
Remember, at one time, the Republican Party was a third party. It rose to power only as the result of the Whig Party splitting apart (Some members formed the Know Nothing Party and other formed the Free Soil Party, both of which were short-lived third parties whose members eventually joined the nascent Republican Party) on the issue of slavery.

Great point—you’re right. And when the Republican Party first met in that little schoolhouse in Ripon, WI, they had the added challenge of heightened sectionalism that instantly meant alienation by most of the southerners. But they too stood on PRINCIPLE. And look at the payoff. While the party is lost in the woods today, it was the Republican Party, not the Democrats, that championed the cause of race, slavery, equal and civil rights, etc. Now they’re screwed up like the lunatic fringe Democratic party. There really isn’t a party that honestly represents the people.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 41):
The only thing standing in their way is the mishmash of restrictive ballot access laws across the country that makes it very difficult for third parties to field candidates.

Another outstanding point—the deck is stacked totally against the third party and the rules have been instituted by the two circus act parties in order to keep their oligarchic duopoly and power grab.

Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 43):
Here it is:
Ralph Nader 659,943
Bob Barr 490,295
Chuck Baldwin 175,560
Cynthia McKinney 143,462
Alan Keyes 35,108
Ron Paul 19,582
Gloria LaRiva 7,578
Roger Calero 7,184
Brian Moore 6,393
None Of The Above 6,251
Richard Duncan 3,677
James Harris 2,426
Charles Jay 2,311
John Joseph Polachek 1,223

GRAND TOTAL: 1,560,993
Total % of the votes: 1.2%

http://election.cbsnews.com/election2008/president.shtml

Yes you donkeys and elephants, in some states they had a choice to vote for NOBODY, if you think we are wasting 1.56 million voices, remember, there were 6251 people who voted for NOBODY! Let that grab you for a minute.



Awesome! I remember there was a None of The Above movement out there. Nader just needs to go away. Imagine combining the Barr, Baldwin, Keyes, Paul contingent together and with a truly organized movement what the results would be. Just eclipsing a 10% threshold would be enough to shock the system.
 
Jaws707
Posts: 667
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2001 10:45 am

RE: Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:22 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 44):
Imagine combining the Barr, Baldwin, Keyes, Paul contingent together and with a truly organized movement what the results would be.

You probably wouldn't be able to combine all of them because their views are different and people support them for different reasons, but might be able to combine 2 or 3 of them to start creating a stronger party. I think America desperately needs a 3rd party and now they may be able to get better organized because of the turmoil our country is facing.
I feel that if they had an organized platform and if they came from one party with similar values and beliefs people would be more likely to supprt them. Currently with all these different parties like Green, Constitution, Libertarian, etc the majority of the people do not know what each party stands for and what the differences are between them.
Also assuming they ever get organized into a party, I think the party should use its limited resources to try to get some people elected into the US Senate. Here they can actually make a bigger difference and that gives them a much larger stage for their voices to be heard. Until these parties get some people into Congress, electing a President from them will be a pipe dream.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:11 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 44):
Another outstanding point—the deck is stacked totally against the third party and the rules have been instituted by the two circus act parties in order to keep their oligarchic duopoly and power grab.

In some cases, it was used to create a one party government at the State level. In the State of Georgia, the Democratic Party controlled all aspects of the government for well over 120 years. They wrote laws that made it harder and harder for the Republicans to field candidates. But eventually, the Republicans made enough gains (mainly because the more conservative Democrats tired of the further moving to the left of the party and swapped parties) that they didn't have to jump through all of the hoops they used to have to jump through). When Gov. Sonny Purdue was elected Governor in 2002, he was the first Republican governor since 1872, when the Benjamin F. Conley served out the final two and a half months of Rufus B. Bullock's term (who had been forced to resign). Georgia could have had a Republican governor in 1966, but because of the way the state constitution was written, in the case no candidate for governor received a majority, the General Assembly elected the governor. Since the General Assembly was overwhelmingly Democrat, Lester Maddox was named Governor.
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:26 pm

Oh my, this is turning into a great history lesson from all of you. This is amazing reading.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
slider
Posts: 6817
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:12 pm



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 46):
In some cases, it was used to create a one party government at the State level. In the State of Georgia, the Democratic Party controlled all aspects of the government for well over 120 years. They wrote laws that made it harder and harder for the Republicans to field candidates. But eventually, the Republicans made enough gains (mainly because the more conservative Democrats tired of the further moving to the left of the party and swapped parties) that they didn't have to jump through all of the hoops they used to have to jump through). When Gov. Sonny Purdue was elected Governor in 2002, he was the first Republican governor since 1872, when the Benjamin F. Conley served out the final two and a half months of Rufus B. Bullock's term (who had been forced to resign). Georgia could have had a Republican governor in 1966, but because of the way the state constitution was written, in the case no candidate for governor received a majority, the General Assembly elected the governor. Since the General Assembly was overwhelmingly Democrat, Lester Maddox was named Governor.



Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 47):
Oh my, this is turning into a great history lesson from all of you. This is amazing reading.

Indeed! Thanks Srb--I wasn't aware of that from GA....good stuff to know.

I think I agree with you that starting at the bottom is key.

I remember when I first started getting involved in the LP, there was a common thread among everyone. They all started with grass roots activism. One lady was pissed at her school board, another guy got screwed by some little power-hungry town board chairman about a property easement, another was cited for waste dumping wrongly, and so forth. They began to build inroads into local government entities and that’s where it starts.

I also distinctly remember that visibility was key. Where there were any unopposed incumbents or ANY office without a Libertarian candidate, they got someone to run. Even if it were a steamroller, just throw someone up there and work to get visibility, even if it meant building a “campaign” on the fly. Sounds bassackwards and in many instances, it was. But I remember those days fondly, all suffering for our art and love of country and community.

Getting the laws changed and tilting the landscape to ENABLE third party candidates to get a place at the table is really a key task and something that needs to be done.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Bob Barr & Other Independents 2008

Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:29 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 48):
I also distinctly remember that visibility was key. Where there were any unopposed incumbents or ANY office without a Libertarian candidate, they got someone to run. Even if it were a steamroller, just throw someone up there and work to get visibility, even if it meant building a “campaign” on the fly. Sounds bassackwards and in many instances, it was. But I remember those days fondly, all suffering for our art and love of country and community.

It's those sorts of campaigns that got the LP ballot access to all statewide elected offices as well as the US Senate in Georgia. They really need to go after some of the members of Congress who pretty much get elected in July as the opposing party isn't running against them. There's still a few election cycles before the districts get redrawn, so if I were the LP, I'd definitely try to gain ballot access before 2014, even if it's only two or three of the current 13 districts. Same is also true in regards to seats in both houses of the General Assembly. I remember back in the late 90s, there was a LP candidate in my area (I've lived in the same general area for 13 years) going door to door trying to get folks to sign a petition in order to get his name on the ballot for the general election. He didn't get on the ballot, as they disallowed just enough signatures to keep him off of the ballot (which is something that happens far too often in many parts of the country). In the State House and Senate districts I live in, neither candidate had a Republican opponent and won their seats back during the summer.

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