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Aaron747
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High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:09 am

America's first dedicated high speed rail line has been approved by voters in California.

Prop 1A passed by a fairly narrow margin, but with bipartisan support and opposition mostly confined to environmental groups, the airlines, and rural voters weary of the state's relatively poor record on public works cost overruns, it is a considerable victory given the controversial nature of the proposal.

Prop 1A establishes the first $10 billion bond for public financing.

This is the proposed system in its current incarnation:

http://www.sfcityscape.com/maps/graphics/california_high_speed_rail.gif

It's amazing anything like this can get done given the current level of environmental insanity in Californian regulation, but with the current governor's leadership and a smart approach to outreach in all involved communities, I believe this project can be successfully completed.



[Edited 2008-11-05 17:10:50]
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Charles79
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:15 am

Hopefully this is the first of many to come. Having lived in Los Angeles for the past 4 years I always wondered why there were no high-speed rails between LA and Frisco or LA and Vegas, two heavily transited routes. There's plenty of potential here, just hope that they don't miss the opportunity.
 
san747
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:17 am

This looks fantastic, especially the route map. This benefits not just those going between SF and LA, but if I wanted to go say from Temecula to ONT or LAX, I could take this train and save a lot of time!

I love flying, but I'll take a high-speed train on a short enough trip!  Smile
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DfwRevolution
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:21 am

Wow, I'm doubly, pleasantly surprised by California's sensibility with voter propositions this year  wideeyed 
 
glid4500
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:33 am

Im excited that Prop 1A passed. Lookin forward to the opening day, whenever that will be. A 2 hour journey from Northern CA to LA is pretty good. If High speed rail works in Japan, France, and other countries, then it can work here in the US.
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Aaron747
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:37 am



Quoting Glid4500 (Reply 4):
If High speed rail works in Japan

Japanese high speed rail has never had a single passenger fatality and as of first quarter this year has had a grand total of only 1,134 operational delays in over 15,000 days of service since 1964. An incredible record by any standard.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
lowrider
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:38 am

Will it be state operated or contracted out?
Proud OOTSK member
 
SkyyKat
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:39 am

Good news.... What are the environmental impacts though? I would imagine that this would be a much cleaner form of transport than busses, cars or airplanes... What are the environmentalists using as a deterrent here?
 
LASoctoberB6
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:45 am

Now when will that high speed train connect Las Vegas to CA?
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DfwRevolution
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's

Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:48 am



Quoting Glid4500 (Reply 4):
If High speed rail works in Japan, France, and other countries, then it can work here in the US.

Well let's not forget that Japan and France both sport a population density in excess of the most densely populated U.S. corridors. Japan is a bit smaller than California but has more than triple the population. While France is a larger in both area and population, it's density is ultimately about 25% higher than California's.

High-speed rail is very good at moving lots of people between fixed points within regional distances, but that's about it. The freight opportunities are far more limited than with highways and airports. In a nation like the U.S. that is proportionately less dense and proportionately more economically active than France or Japan, it's no wonder that highways and airports have been the preferred option for public investment. It's not just a matter of us loving cars because the same can be said for Asians and Europeans.

It will probably be another decade or two before the U.S. population (along certain corridors other than New England) reaches the "critical mass" necessary for HSR to be a success. Since it takes about that long to get a major public works program into service, I applaud California for being on the cutting edge.
 
BA
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:50 am

Wow, congratulations to California! As a high-speed rail and public transit advocate, I'm really thrilled to hear this and I'm sure my relatives in So Cal are happy too.
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flymia
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:50 am

WOW! Great news for California. Hopefully Florida can see something like this one day but i doubt it. A MIA-FLL-PBI-MCO-DAB-TPA-GVN-JAX-TLH type of thing.
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travelin man
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:19 am

I'm also happy LA County passed a half cent sales tax for more transit projects (subways, light rail, freeway expansion, etc.). I'm pleasantly surprised it was passed by the required 2/3 majority in this economic environment, but at the end of the day the traffic is just SOOOO bad here, people finally had enough.
 
glid4500
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:42 am



Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 8):
Now when will that high speed train connect Las Vegas to CA?

Date is undetermined, as so the operator. Looks like theres 2 proposals

-CA-NV Interstate Maglev ( Las Vegas-Barstow-Anaheim )
-Desert Xpress operating from Victorville-Las Vegas with a seperate rail connection from Victorville to the Los Angeles area

Quoting Dfwrevolution (Reply 9):
Well let's not forget that Japan and France both sport a population density in excess of the most densely populated U.S. corridors.

That maybe so...but as u may know, the Amtrak Acela Express and Northeast Corridor trains ( Boston-NYP-Washington DC ) is a perfect example of HSR in the US. Its been sucessful for quite some time. The Amtrak California Trains ( Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin, and Capital Corridor Trains ), have seen almost a 16% of ridership this year. The original plan was to have this proposed CA HSR to run along the I-5 corridor.

Quoting SkyyKat (Reply 7):
What are the environmental impacts though?

http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/faqs/environment.htm
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panam330
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:43 am

Wow. I'm incredibly surprised. The time/hassle saved going from SF to LA will be incredible versus a car. Of course, it won't be nearly as scenic as the PCH, but it's worth it. Even to take the high speed rail over a plane could have its advantages. Probably shorter overall too, when taking check-in, security, possible delays, etc. into account. At least they passed a good proposition, unlike the other notable one which shouldn't have been. Bravo!
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:52 am



Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 11):
WOW! Great news for California. Hopefully Florida can see something like this one day but i doubt it. A MIA-FLL-PBI-MCO-DAB-TPA-GVN-JAX-TLH type of thing.

Not without an approval to modify the Urban Development Boundary Line and decades of environmentalist legal battles. Be sure it won't happen in our lifetimes. I am.
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norcal
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:52 am

This is definitely a good thing for my home state, but I must admit that as an airline pilot I was hoping this wouldn't pass....

I can't be too upset though because this will benefit a lot of people, I just hope it doesn't kill off my industry in the state. If it does destroy California aviation then I'll just have to look into getting a job as a train engineer. The railroads probably have better pay and work rules anyways. Do you need type ratings for high speed trains?
 
glid4500
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:57 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 12):
I'm also happy LA County passed a half cent sales tax for more transit projects (subways, light rail, freeway expansion, etc.). I'm pleasantly surprised it was passed by the required 2/3 majority in this economic environment, but at the end of the day the traffic is just SOOOO bad here, people finally had enough

That itself is great news for Angelinos like myself...although I do have a car, i take public transportation when Im not working.

Measure M has worked in nearby Orange County for almost 20 years ( since 1990 ). The half-cent sales tax was used wisely to help widen SR22 ( Garden Grove Freeway ), especially the Orange Crush where the I-5, SR22, & SR57 meets. Its also improved bus service in the OC that has little or no service in the past. Its also helped fixed up potholes & widen streets, repave roads, and add additional weekday, and new weekend + holiday service on the Metrolink Orange County Lines, not to mention the construction of new Metrolink Stations in the OC ( Buena Park just opened this year, and Placentia Station is being built ). That measure is up for renewal in 2011 and has seen near 4 billion dollars in transportation improvements.

[Edited 2008-11-05 20:00:17]
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DiamondFlyer
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:00 am



Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 11):
WOW! Great news for California. Hopefully Florida can see something like this one day but i doubt it. A MIA-FLL-PBI-MCO-DAB-TPA-GVN-JAX-TLH type of thing.

It was tried and passed a referendum back in 2000. However, the same referendum was repealed in 2004. However, the inital plan was a short line, up the I-4 corridor from Tampa to Orlando. I believe they had future plans to expand more, but that didn't happen. They had a website, but it appears to be down right now. For some basic background the best I can do for you is the dreaded wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_High_Speed_Rail

-DiamondFlyer
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stasisLAX
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:07 am

Proposition 1A is a complete waste of California taxpayer's monies. The proponets of this measure provided the public with bad information, stating that the cost of fares would be $50 for the 2 1/2 hour trip from L.A. to San Francisco, when numerous transportation analysts/engineers have stated the fare would need to be at least $175 and the trip would be 3.5 hours in duration. Supporters of Prop 1A also claim a potential ridership of 100 million people, yet the popular AMTRAK route (the Northeast Corridor route Washington-Philadelphia -New York-Providence-Boston) traveled by high-speed Metroliner and Acela trains get fewer than 3 million passengers in a much bigger, more populous market. AMTRAK's total ridership last year was 25.8 million passengers - and that was a all time record for AMTRAK, by the way. So where the hell are the supporters of Prop 1A getting the insane 100 million passenger figure from?

Nothing about this plan makes ANY economic sense except to the promoters, many of whom will profit from building it - after California taxpayers cough up the billions of dollars to build it.

The monies should have be spent to provide updated/enhanced municipal surface transportation and to support regional light rail projects that provide service to the citizens that most need public transportation, and not a luxury long-distance bullet train that will only be used by the most affluent Californians.   

[Edited 2008-11-05 20:09:30]
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TUNisia
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:19 am

The US is finally waking up to the face that rail is the logical way to go for the future (convenience and environmental reasons).I feel we need more and more of these high-speed corridors across the US and long-distance high-speed rail lines. Imagine being able to board a high-speed Amtrak train (complete with hot meals, beds, nice seats, lounge, no turbulence, no TSA, etc...) and go from the east coast to the west coast in under 12 or so hours!
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MaverickM11
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:26 am



Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 11):
A MIA-FLL-PBI-MCO-DAB-TPA-GVN-JAX-TLH type of thing.

Get on Trirail!

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 19):
Proposition 1A is a complete waste of California taxpayer's monies.

Sure sounds like it.... Where is that LA subway at these days?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
steeler83
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:38 am

Yes!!! Another step in the right direction for rail!! Now, we need the Ohio Hub to come together, and for someone to actually turn the entire Keystone Corridor into a HSR corridor, providing a HSR network from the Northeast and Midatlantic all the way out to Chicago and other parts of the Midwest...

I heard that the 2 finalists for the MAGLEV project were the Pittsburgh one as well as Vegas. I wonder if there's anything new on that...
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Superfly
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:39 am

Glad it passed and I hope this becomes a reality.
I voted yes on prop 1A.

Glad to see this rail network actually link to important points of interest that generate lots of foot traffic.
Who in their right mind thought of building a multi-million dollar rail network to Daly City instead of SFSU/Stonestown, Fremont instead of San Jose, El Segundo instead of LAX.  confused 
Bring back the Concorde
 
WunalaYann
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:00 am



Quoting NorCal (Reply 16):
This is definitely a good thing for my home state, but I must admit that as an airline pilot I was hoping this wouldn't pass....

Rest assured that the timeframes involved will give you and your industry plenty of time to turn around and re-focus on new/underserved routes.

Meanwhile, I am on  cloudnine .
 
rwsea
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:01 am

This is excellent news and I hope it succeeds! There's so many corridors in the US where we need better rail. Flying hundreds of planes daily between the Bay Area and SoCal is such a waste of fuel, limited airport capacity, and the environment. My only beef is that it seems to have too many "carrots" thrown in for small communities. For instance, Palmdale is way out of the way and will add a decent chunk of travel time but it was included. Why not build a straighter routing and offer Palmdale as a spur route?

Either way, I realize that the project still has hurdles to overcome to be a reality, but it's an exciting sign of things to come.

Oh, and nice work LA County on expanding the Subway! A subway down Wilshire will be very successful.
 
57AZ
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:07 am



Quoting NorCal (Reply 16):
Do you need type ratings for high speed trains?

No. However, you do have to be trained to operate different locomotive series. Unlike airplanes, locomotives are matched to the train weight and length, depending on what locomotives are available. On railroads such as NS or CSXT, you might get an air conditioned safety cab locomotive (GE Dash-8) one trip and get an GP-38-2 on the next (no a/c or soundproofing). Even more fun is when the power desk plays mix-n-match with mixed consists. You may find yourself with more than one locomotive type in the same power set (GP-38-2, GP-40 and GP-50 for example).

As for speed, the big difference is in railway design and signaling-nothing involving the train operator.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
travelin man
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:14 am



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 25):
For instance, Palmdale is way out of the way and will add a decent chunk of travel time but it was included.

Actually it is not out of the way for the rail routes. Current rail routes go through Palmdale because the I-5 corridor through the Tehachapis is too steep for trains. Hence the need to go through Palmdale, Mojave, and over the Tehachapis near Highway 58.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:21 am



Quoting TUNisia (Reply 20):
Imagine being able to board a high-speed Amtrak train (complete with hot meals, beds, nice seats, lounge, no turbulence, no TSA, etc...) and go from the east coast to the west coast in under 12 or so hours!

A massively expensive government service with no practical value. It just might work.  Yeah sure

Quoting TUNisia (Reply 20):
The US is finally waking up to the face that rail is the logical way to go for the future (convenience and environmental reasons)

In the next quarter/half century, HSR will make sense in a number of U.S. regions I can count on one hand. Otherwise, it's just more expensive and/or less flexible than admittedly less "sexy" options such as highways, airports, and modern commuter rail.

Quoting TUNisia (Reply 20):
I feel we need more and more of these high-speed corridors across the US and long-distance high-speed rail lines.

I felt the same way when Texas passed the Trans-Texas Corridor legislation to create a massive network of highways, trucklanes, rail lines, and utility lines across the state. I was angered that the highways would come first and passenger HSR rail much later so I basically consumed the section of the Texas A&M library dedicated to transportation engineering. As a mechanical engineer and business minor, I expected that I could make a case to my state senator for why we should go rail first, highways later. My research largely changed my mind and negated many of the "tricks" I hoped would make rail a profitable venture in the near-term.

Finally, high-speed rail will always be a regional mode transportation. Outside a few hundred miles and it no longer makes any sense with any current or future breed of rail-on-wheels technology. Maglev is the only technology that could potentially connect region-to-region, but if the cost of HSR is sobering, the cost of Maglev is just astronomic. Maglev is the pipedream no one wants to admit is a pipedream.
 
PSA727
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:36 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 19):
Proposition 1A is a complete waste of California taxpayer's monies.

I really don't see any economical (environmental, yes) benefit from this project. Unlike most
Europeans in high-density areas, Californians have cars. The $50 ticket plug is such an
outright sham. Look how much the Thalys train charges for a Paris-Cologne OW ticket, or
a Eurostar Paris-London ticket. How many daily trains do they plan to run on this route
anyway. I don't think it would be anywhere near for the project to be cost effective. And
unlike Europe, there aren't many transportation supplements at the rail stations once people
get off these trains. It looks like the trains would stop at SFO and ONT, but there's nothing
for LAX. There's more important transportation infrastructures that need greater priority for
California's daily commuters. How many people commute on a daily basis between L.A.
and San Francisco?
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
WunalaYann
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:46 am



Quoting PSA727 (Reply 29):
Unlike most Europeans in high-density areas, Californians have cars.

Most Europeans in high-density areas have cars. Ditto for Japanese.

 Smile
 
PSA727
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:05 am



Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 30):
Most Europeans in high-density areas have cars. Ditto for Japanese.

You're saying that in cities like London, Paris, and Tokyo the car ownership rate is above the
50% population level?
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LHboyatDTW
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:13 am



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 3):

So true. I am also amazed as, despite having 2/3 of my family live in SoCal, I always had this vision of California being this tree hugging sort of state with LOTS of red tape. I guess I'm partially right on that regard. I'm not trying to be flamed, but in my defense it's been almost over ten years since I've been there.

Quoting TUNisia (Reply 20):

I dream of that day too. Now if only that money of ours could be put to such good use.  cloudnine 
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vikkyvik
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:15 am



Quoting Charles79 (Reply 1):
LA and Vegas

Now THAT would be awesome.

Quoting San747 (Reply 2):
This looks fantastic, especially the route map. This benefits not just those going between SF and LA, but if I wanted to go say from Temecula to ONT or LAX, I could take this train and save a lot of time!

Yep...I definitely have my eye on the supposed 27 minute ride from Union Station to ONT, as I have relatives in Fontana.
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WunalaYann
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:17 am



Quoting PSA727 (Reply 31):
You're saying that in cities like London, Paris, and Tokyo the car ownership rate is above the
50% population level?

In Paris the rate was 46% of households in 2004, I'll give you this one. Now look at the link below. Remember, they are "per 1000 people", which includes babies, people with disabilities, elderlies, etc. What matters is per household.

http://www.swivel.com/data_sets/show/1003604

For what it is worth, Paris, Tokyo and London do not account for even 20% of their respective country's total population.

 Smile
 
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DocLightning
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:29 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 5):

Japanese high speed rail has never had a single passenger fatality and as of first quarter this year has had a grand total of only 1,134 operational delays in over 15,000 days of service since 1964. An incredible record by any standard.

The average delay of all Shinkansen since inception in 1964 is 4 seconds. That includes earthquakes and volcanic eruptions.

And Aaron, your numbers are a bit misleading. 1,134 operational delays in over 15,000 DAYS of service. So that's an average of one delay every 12 or so days. But what your numbers failed to mention is how many Shinkansen operate each day in Japan. I don't know the answer, but it's got to be about 1000. So let me estimate (since there were fewer trains running on Day 1 than there were on Day 15,000 that something on the order 10,000,000 trains have operated since 1964. That means that the delay rate is <.01%

I'd love to see any airline pull that off.
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Aaron747
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:19 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 19):
The monies should have be spent to provide updated/enhanced municipal surface transportation and to support regional light rail projects that provide service to the citizens that most need public transportation, and not a luxury long-distance bullet train that will only be used by the most affluent Californians.

A similar system to what is used in Japan could easily be introduced. Most Japanese employers reimburse their staff for using shinkansen because its use promotes high productivity and reduces the impact of costly airline tickets. First class cars are available for premium passengers with tickets marked up nearly 20% over the base fare.

Shinkansen fares are determined in a three step system:

Base fare - the fare charged for traveling between any two points, which can be used on any non-reserved car provided that there is standing room available at off-peak times.

Non-reserved fare - the fare charged for traveling in a non-reserved car during peak periods, namely commute hours.

Reserved seat fare - fare surcharge for having a reserved seat. This fare is added to the base fare and is around 5500 yen one way for the Osaka to Tokyo sector.

A fourth designation is for the 'Green Cars' with first class, reservation-only service.

At any rate, if anything's a waste of money, it's light rail. Bus rapid transit is an infinitely better option given the existing built environment in most California cities. Farebox recovery with light rail is generally poor to shitty and except for San Diego, a chunk of eastern San Francisco and parts of Los Angeles, other areas have not seen significant transit oriented development result from its construction.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):
And Aaron, your numbers are a bit misleading. 1,134 operational delays in over 15,000 DAYS of service. So that's an average of one delay every 12 or so days. But what your numbers failed to mention is how many Shinkansen operate each day in Japan. I don't know the answer, but it's got to be about 1000. So let me estimate (since there were fewer trains running on Day 1 than there were on Day 15,000 that something on the order 10,000,000 trains have operated since 1964. That means that the delay rate is <.01%

Thanks for pointing that out - you only enhanced my point  Wink
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
centrair
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:20 am

I love how on the website they show two different types of trains. One is a TGV and the other is a Shinkansen N700. What are they going to use? In videos it is TGV.

(Transbay Terminal Area Development: N700)

This will be on dedicated track right?

Will they have it broken down like in Japan where we have three types of service Kodama (local running sections), Hikari (limited running between Osaka and Tokyo with stops at limited intermediates.) and Nozomi (Special Limited Tokyo-Nagoya-Kyoto-Osaka).

Otherwise...definitely exciting.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
TGV
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:37 am



Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 11):
WOW! Great news for California. Hopefully Florida can see something like this one day but i doubt it. A MIA-FLL-PBI-MCO-DAB-TPA-GVN-JAX-TLH type of thing.



Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 18):
It was tried and passed a referendum back in 2000. However, the same referendum was repealed in 2004. However, the inital plan was a short line, up the I-4 corridor from Tampa to Orlando. I believe they had future plans to expand more, but that didn't happen. They had a website, but it appears to be down right now. For some basic background the best I can do for you is the dreaded wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_High_Speed_Rail

-DiamondFlyer

As I worked on this project in 97-98 I can tell you that the initial route was Tampa – Lakeland - Orlando Attractions - Orlando Airport - West Palm Beach -Fort Lauderdale - Miami.
If I remember well a future extension to Jacksonville was also considered (but not part of what we studied then).
I imagine this is what was approved in 2000, with probably a phasing of the construction, as mentioned in wikipedia (and the St Petersburg extension?).

The service was planned with 200 mph (322 km/h) electrical trainsets based on the French TGV technology. Running times were 1 hour between Tampa and Orlando Airport and 1h21 between Orlando airport and Miami.
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af773atmsp
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:39 am

I'm glad the U.S. is finally starting to focus on rail travel.

Minnesota is getting its first commuter rail line. I hope someday some of the major Midwest cities are connected together by high-speed rail.

Congratulations to California!
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WunalaYann
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:48 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):
I'd love to see any airline pull that off.

Well, if you consider the TGV's recent 574.7 km/h record, there will soon be no difference between an airline and a rail line...  Smile

Well done California, welcome to 2008!!  Smile
 
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:26 am



Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 40):
Well, if you consider the TGV's recent 574.7 km/h record, there will soon be no difference between an airline and a rail line... Smile

TGV can't keep that sort of speed up, though. It can only be done on certain sections of track and it requires too much energy to maintain that sort of speed at ground level to be economical. It was really a publicity stunt by Alstom to sell trains.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 37):
I love how on the website they show two different types of trains. One is a TGV and the other is a Shinkansen N700. What are they going to use? In videos it is TGV.

Probably more than one type of train. No system uses a single type. Furthermore, since it won't be operational before 2030, the trainset that they are going to use first likely hasn't been designed yet.

So far, I've ridden on High-Speed trains made by Seimens (the Velaro) and Talgo. If the trains were to be ordered today, I'd vote for the Velaro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJKyisRKrLg

Interestingly, none of the videos show catenary. Does anyone know if the CA-HSR will use catenary or third rail? Strikes me that third rail is not the best way to power a train with these sorts of energy demands.
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Zkpilot
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:03 am

Excellent news!
One thing I'd love to see is for the Purple Metro line to be extended out to the coast then possibly turn South although there is now the Expo line which I guess would cover the South part. I looked on the metro site and I think they said that a trip from the existing last Purple stop to the coast would take about 20 minutes compared with closer to 1h20m by bus!! Not to mention that the trip is much nicer by train (its not stinking hot, its smoother, not crowded), it also has the ability to move about 10x more people than a fully developed bus service. Not having to change modes (ie subway train - bus/light rail) has benefits both in ease but also saving about 5 minutes of walking/waiting time.
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columba
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:35 am

Great news, the railway was the means of transportation that made America great in the first place it is good that America rediscovers it, as it will be a great help to stop pollution, it will bring new jobs and will help to improve the infrastructure.

Any idea what highspeed train California will get, a new one or one based on an existing model (TGV, Eurostar, ICE, etc....)
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Aaron747
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:16 pm



Quoting Columba (Reply 43):
Any idea what highspeed train California will get, a new one or one based on an existing model (TGV, Eurostar, ICE, etc....)

I'm pulling for a Japanese model with modified interiors. Shinkansen trains are by far the easiest to maintain - the current JR500, N500 and N700 series have total commonality for most major parts and components and have an impeccable service record.
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keesje
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:23 pm

Congratulation. A future proof investment. In Europe high speed train stop under the major airport hubs. AMS, CDG, FRA and regional trains stop at almost all major airports. Maybe a next step.
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Jaws707
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:17 pm

Yes!!! Another step in the right direction for rail!! Now, we need the Ohio Hub to come together, and for someone to actually turn the entire Keystone Corridor into a HSR corridor, providing a HSR network from the Northeast and Midatlantic all the way out to Chicago and other parts of the Midwest...

I definately agree that this is a step in the right direction for rail. I just worry about all of these projects and if they will be managed appropriately. Will Amtrak be involved in the high speed rail in California? I know Acela is fast, with speeds hitting 150 mph, but this system will hit up to 220 mph. I just think that if there was a central management like Amtrak and a standardized technology like either Acela or whatever California is using that would be easier to eventually make high speed rail successful over the entire country instead of these isolated systems.

On another topic has California considered making their system just like Acela. The technology is proven and even though its slower (its still pretty darn fast) I imagine that it would end us costing billions less than this system.
 
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STT757
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:19 pm

Projects like this should be the cornerstone of a economic stimulus, make substantive investments in our infrastructure and put people to work.
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JakeOrion
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:29 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 44):
I'm pulling for a Japanese model with modified interiors. Shinkansen trains are by far the easiest to maintain - the current JR500, N500 and N700 series have total commonality for most major parts and components and have an impeccable service record.

Chances are it will probably be the Acela Express that they currently use on the east coast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acela

However, the Sprinter line between Oceanside and Escondido that recently opened uses Siemens (German) built Desiro-class diesel cars, so Japanese import locos is a possiblity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPRINTER
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rwsea
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RE: High Speed Rail Win In California - America's 1st!

Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:42 pm



Quoting STT757 (Reply 47):
Projects like this should be the cornerstone of a economic stimulus, make substantive investments in our infrastructure and put people to work.

Absolutely agreed. Rather than pandering to voters with $600 "stimulus checks), if all that money were dumped into infrastructure we would have created real jobs. And... we'd have a strong infrastructure to help the economy along when it rebounds.

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