Ps76
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2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:34 pm

Hi,

Was just wondering what experience people might have had regarding being 2nd generation (or other) in a country vs. returning to their homeland. I guess the topic is similar for Ex-pat workers too(?) Personally my parents came to the UK from Iraq in the 1960's. I don't know the exact reasons but I know my mum just felt that life was becoming too strict/restricive their and they wanted to be free. However obviously the Uk will never be my real country and while I've very grateful to live here (I don't think I'd last 2 seconds in Iraq!) I wonder how long people can live homeless so-to-speak. If I wanted to go "home" I guess it would be to the villages in Northern Iraq where my ancestors came from (I'm Assyrian which is a Christian minority from the North).

I guess I'm just asking what people thoughts about such a topic might be. Can people live as "immigrants" for multiple generations? Do people feel the desire to return to their homeland? I know I have one friend who returned to living in Hungary and one is Israel after finishing university although personally I don't even speak Assyrian or Arabic not to mention returning to a "homeland" which doesn't really exist except for a few villages who's security and future is probably about as certain as the stock market(!)

Any thoughts/experiences etc. welcome.

Many thanks,

Pierre.
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:24 pm



Quoting Ps76 (Thread starter):
obviously the Uk will never be my real country

I find it sad that you would say this. If you were born and raised in the UK - why would it not be your real country? Sure, your background is Iraqi and you should wear that proudly - but you are also a Brit and you should be proud of that as well.

Mr. Harlot's parents emigrated from Portugal to Canada and he was born in Canada. He is Canadian through and through - but he also retains his Portuguese-Canadian identity, and we would love to have a house in Portugal and live there part of the time. How cool that he gets to be both Canadian and Portuguese - the best of both worlds!

I would hope that you could look at it the same way. You're not lost, you're multi - and so tons of opportunities are open to you in your birth country and your family's country. Home is where you make it.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
rfields5421
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:09 pm

Well, the US is a nation of immigrants.

Less than a million of us can say this nation is our 'home' in that our families originally came from somewhere else.

Immigrant patterns tend to be the same for all groups, all cultures, all national origins.

The first generation primarily uses the old language, and tries to make old customs and lifestyles fit into their life in this country. Frequently only the worker member of the family learned English very well, and the stay at home family members try to stay in a circle which speaks the old language - i.e. little Italy, or Poland in many cities. One of my great grandmothers never learned English - being from Ireland and opposed to the language.

In general, the second generation has the old languague, but is fluent in English, and much more adoptive of current standards and life styles.

Very few of the third generation know more than a few words in the old language and tend to have assimilated into the culture.

However, when the third generation gets older, they want to reconnect with their heritage, and visit the old homeland. Almost exclusively they do not wish to return to live.

Now those are general trends. Of course there are plenty of families with different experiences - but I've found those general trends also seem to apply in other nations where I've lived for a long time.

Celebrate your heritage, but your home is the UK.

But I believe that when safe, you would benefit greatly from a visit to "the old country".

You will find out that you have almost nothing in common with those people other than a name and some history.

Two of my late teens step-granddaughters accompanied their mother and her mother (other side of that family) to Beirut and Aleppo last summer. Since their mother was born in Syria and moved to the US at age 9 - her parents are Christian and wanted out of the Middle East - the girls are second generation much like you.

They decided real quick that being a beach volleyball player or a concert musician in Florida was much more the life they wanted to live.

[Edited 2008-11-06 10:10:58]
 
yooyoo
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:24 pm

My parents immigrated to Canada in 1969 from Germany. I was 6 months old at the time. I'm a Canadian citizen and very proud to say that "I am Canadian". I still hold Germany in my heart and cheer for German sports teams and the national teams but, i am Canadian all the way. I do go back to Germany visiting family and friends and pay my respects to my family members that have past on. I enjoy the time i spend in Germany but after a few weeks i long to come "home". I highly doubt i will move back to Deutschland unless Lufthansa of the national football team needs me  Wink . I wear a Poppy on my coat proudly.

I admit that i have socks resembeling the German flag and i do not wear them with my sandals!!  Wink
I also enjoy air conditioning,
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:10 pm



Quoting Ps76 (Thread starter):
Can people live as "immigrants" for multiple generations?

-
Many 2nd/3rd generation "immigrants" no longer have any real connections to their country of origin. When they visit the "homeland(s)" they will indeed feel "at home" but will stay in hotels just as other tourists. And many people are half-and-half and so have several "home-countries" including the guest-country.
-

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 1):
why would it not be your real country? Sure, your background is Iraqi and you should wear that proudly - but you are also a Brit and you should be proud of that as well.

-
absolutely ! you can have more than one "home-country" and more than one culture. Such may at times be a challenge, but makes life more interesting !
-
 
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OA260
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:24 pm



Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 1):
I find it sad that you would say this. If you were born and raised in the UK - why would it not be your real country? Sure, your background is Iraqi and you should wear that proudly - but you are also a Brit and you should be proud of that as well.

Its often hard when growing up to know your real identity. Sometimes you feel more part of one culture than another. For me I take the good bits from all 3 of my cultures. British/Greek/Guyanese. The strongest would probably be 50% Greek 30% British and 20% Guyanese ( Indian ). Although sometimes that changes .

To put it into simple terms::

If for some reason there is a football match between Greece and the UK I will always support Greece. If there was one between Guyana and UK then I would support Guyana. If there is a football match between the UK and another country then I support the UK. If Greece and Guyana ever played I would be split I must admit .

If either 3 of my cultures come under attack and I know its not the truth then I will always defend them all. I am always ready to criticise all 3 if I deem it warranted.
 
Ps76
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:27 pm

Hi,

Just wanted to say many thanks for the thoughts/info etc.. I guess I could well be looking at my situation in a more positive light (I remember when young I used to see it definitely more positively).

I also must agree with the thought that if I returned I would probably feel much more out of place in my "homeland" than where I am at the moment. I think I have one friend who pretty much experienced this having returned for holiday and not felt particularly at home when he did.

Many thanks for the info etc.,

Pierre
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:37 pm

My mother was born in Finland and immigrated to the U.S. with my grandparents and four of her siblings in 1956. I was lucky to enjoy a close relationship with my grandparents while they were alive and was exposed to quite a bit of Finnish culture at frequent family gatherings and through occasional visits to the states by Finnish relatives. Following the deaths of my grandparents in 2003 and 2004, I've had the opportunity to travel to Finland three separate times. I've not only been able to visit the places where I have roots, but also form some good relationships with my Finnish relatives.

My father's grandparents immigrated to the U.S. from Germany in the early 20th century, and while I don't know a great deal about their roots in the country, I have been able to visit Germany (even beating my dad there) and learn a bit more about it. If nothing else, my German is substantially better than my Finnish!
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:44 pm



Quoting Ps76 (Reply 6):
the thoughts/info etc

-
do not forget that it sometimes can be frustrating. Look at President Obama. In "white" "mainland USA" he was half-Kenyan, among US Blacks he was half-white and African, in Hawaii he was NON-Hawaiian, in Jakarta he was American-African but neither Indonesian nor Muslim nor Malay, and among Christians his second "first name" was "Hussein" !  Sad  Wink  Wink
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This is what I love about the man ! Cheers !
 
seb146
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:00 pm

My father's father was born and raised in Germany. My father was born in the United States and spoke German and English growing up. He served with the Army and did his tour in Germany. He never taught my brothers and I German or encouraged any German culture or ways other than listening to the occasional Beethoven symphony or Connie Francis record where she sings in German. He loved American football and American food and was registered to vote Libritarian. He always talked about his service in the Army, but more about where he went during his off time. He was always happy that he got to see his father's homeland. But, we are American and live in America. He never spoke of us returning to Germany.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
Zentraedi
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:13 pm

I don't think I could ever live in my mother's country, the Philippines. In fact, the worst part about it would be having family there.

I've been there quite few times, but have never actually been able to really see anything. It was always my mother showing off her "white children", forcing us to eat unsanitary meat which led diarrhea, and being forced to hand out money/whiskey/cigarettes to dozens of "relatives", etc.

Going there, I'm seen as little more than an ATM and not paying out leads to grief. What really gets me is how one person can "promise" that I'll give money a third person without even seeking my consent. If I refuse, that means I've broken the promise somehow. This includes nonsense like borrowing in a relative's name. That happens to my mother a lot.

Another scam relative there pull, is double charging. For example, a typhoon might destroy their house. Then, they'll request money. Once the money is sent, they blow it on a party. After that, they make another request for cash saying the money was spent to honor you.
 
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OA260
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:53 pm



Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 10):
After that, they make another request for cash saying the money was spent to honor you.

LOL.... Sounds like Guyana !!
 
Zentraedi
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:05 am



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 11):
LOL.... Sounds like Guyana !!

lol, it's probably common with a lot of 3rd world countries. I've talked to others with family ties in SE Asia, and hear similar stories.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:16 pm



Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 12):
common with a lot of 3rd world countries

-
far far far worse, many "first world" folks regard this what you so nicely describe as ".....ic mentality" which is driving blood pressure to unhealthy levels !
 
na
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:33 pm

I think the main problem if 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants do not feel comfortably at home in their country has mainly to do with their family and upbringing not willing to integrate in the new society. The "stranger" the chosen promised land´s culture for an immigrant, the bigger the problem. Thus Germans or Scandinavians have no problems living in the US, Canada or Australia, but, hmm, I need to say it, rural Muslims from Asia often will if they do not accept the Western life and only hang around with one owns kind even after long years, or, worse, even don´t care to learn the language of the host country. I can understand the first generation´s uneasyness of cause, but hardly the second and the third not at all if they don´t integrate and still feel as strangers. The worst thing immigrants can do after the first years of struggle are over is live only with people of the same kind. That´ll make things worse for their own kids.
 
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:37 pm



Quoting NA (Reply 14):
but hardly the second and the third not at all if they don´t integrate and still feel as strangers.

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in case of the 2nd and 3rd generation the problem often is the one of "appearance", which means that people in early age fully integrate, but as teenagers have to realize that they "look" different from the main and then will link up with others with the same or similar "looks".
 
Kiwirob
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:44 pm

In Norway there are a lot of Pakistanis, these people have many problems, I don't believe they will ever integrate, they still keep to the old ways, the problems the second and third generations have is that they are not Norwegian enough to be considered Norwegian and not Pakistani enough to go back. It is causing a lot of social problems. Personally I think immigration is a bad thing when you are mixing completely different cultures.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:19 pm



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 16):
lot of Pakistanis, these people have many problems, I don't believe they will ever integrate, they still keep to the old ways, the problems the second and third generations have is that they are not Norwegian enough to be considered Norwegian and not Pakistani enough to go back. It is causing a lot of social problems. Personally I think immigration is a bad thing when you are mixing completely different cultures.

-
I think it is not a bad thing really. But indeed a serious challenge. A challenge to "both" sides in a way, but something which can be overcome. When Switzerland was "flooded" by Tamil refugees, most people doubted that those "black" folks ever could integrate. They swiftly filled up the empty spaces in restaurants and mostly adapted amazingly well and now to a nice extent ARE integrated. In many cases like Turks and Germans, Algerians and French etc it is a MIXED situation, depending on many things, ranging from excellent integration to heavy problem.
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If belonging to the immigrant side, you have to digest being "different" and tackle this challenge as well as you can.
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Frankly spoken, I would find it hard to integrate into Scandinavia, whenever a Turkish schoolfriend of me has moved to Stockholm and apparently now feels at home in the place.
 
na
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:21 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 15):
in case of the 2nd and 3rd generation the problem often is the one of "appearance", which means that people in early age fully integrate, but as teenagers have to realize that they "look" different from the main and then will link up with others with the same or similar "looks".

Of cause "appearance" is important. I if you´re ugly, short and fat you don´t have as much chance as the 1,85m handsome guy next door. That is not restricted to if you´re "foreign" or not. If someone behaves ond looks like the prejudices against a certain group he or she belongs to, it´ll be a problem. Everywhere in the world. Thats human behaviour. Not nice, but natural. If you don´t want to be treated like an alien, don´t behave like it. Very important: don´t dress like people expect you to dress if you´re belonging to a certain, less tolerated ethnic group. In clear words: Don´t wear ghetto style. Avoid it at any cost. Integration is the key.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 16):
Personally I think immigration is a bad thing when you are mixing completely different cultures.

First that has a lot to do with money and education. Also too many foreigners from the "wrong" culture can overstrain a society and are a provocation for the less intelligent. I have friends from all over the world, my wife is a black African, and I generally don´t care about their colour, but I found devoted muslims to be the most difficult, somewhat intolerant people, unwilling to integrate. My strong opinion: immigrants should behave as guests. When I am a guest in a foreign country, I respect their ways, try their food, speak their language, and do not provoke them. Not all immigrants sadly do that in our "rich" western countries. They keep their closed communities, so should not be surprised if they are not liked much.
 
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OA260
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:40 pm



Quoting NA (Reply 18):
but I found devoted muslims to be the most difficult, somewhat intolerant people, unwilling to integrate.

Did the Europeans integrate in the colonies in America/Africa/Asia/Middle East/Australia? Or did they have their own communities and buildings and schools?
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:52 pm



Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 10):
I've been there quite few times, but have never actually been able to really see anything. It was always my mother showing off her "white children", forcing us to eat unsanitary meat which led diarrhea, and being forced to hand out money/whiskey/cigarettes to dozens of "relatives", etc.

Going there, I'm seen as little more than an ATM and not paying out leads to grief. What really gets me is how one person can "promise" that I'll give money a third person without even seeking my consent. If I refuse, that means I've broken the promise somehow. This includes nonsense like borrowing in a relative's name. That happens to my mother a lot.

I had this experience with my first, Filipina, ex wife. One day she was at home, while I was at work and opened a letter from my bank, in which the bank told me that they had increased my overdraft limits. Immediately she called her family and promised them to send a few thousand Deutschmarks (to be financed by me taking on debts).
I was in the same situation, since she argued that I couldn't break a "promise" she as wife has given to her family, since she would loose face.
My second, West african ex was similar, very fast in sppending money she didn't have to work for.

On the other hand, my current fiancee, who is also from the Philippines, but much more educated and has made a good carrer of her own (she is a registered nurse and now assistant chief nurse in a posh nursing home in Ireland) never pulled such stunts.

Quote:

Another scam relative there pull, is double charging. For example, a typhoon might destroy their house. Then, they'll request money. Once the money is sent, they blow it on a party. After that, they make another request for cash saying the money was spent to honor you.

A Filipina friend of mine from years ago told me that she used to send large amounts of money home every year to her family, thinking that only her contributions were keeping them from poverty. In fact, she later discovered that her father, who served in the US army in WW2, received a full US military pension, he never told her about. All her payments were blown away by her brothers.
After her discovery, she stopped all payments and cut back the overtime she worked in Germany to have a more relaxed life.

Jan
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:12 pm



Quoting NA (Reply 18):
don´t behave like it. Very important: don´t dress like people expect you to dress if you´re belonging to a certain, less tolerated ethnic group. In clear words: Don´t wear ghetto style. Avoid it at any cost. Integration is the key.

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Of course. But very often, people neither fat nor ugly but simply different due to "ethnics" and NOT wearing "ghetto style" realize NOT to be accepted. And then find life easier to dress "differently" and to join with others of the same kind. And the "ghetto" starts up.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 19):
but I found devoted muslims to be the most difficult, somewhat intolerant people, unwilling to integrate.
-
Did the Europeans integrate in the colonies in America/Africa/Asia/Middle East/Australia? Or did they have their own communities and buildings and schools?

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Not exactly. They established their own schools, their own cities, their own "communities". Those of the local elite who managed to get into these establishments managed to get UP
 
na
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:55 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 19):
Did the Europeans integrate in the colonies in America/Africa/Asia/Middle East/Australia? Or did they have their own communities and buildings and schools?

Fact is there were no schools as such and no usable buildings before the Europeans came to America, Africa and Australia with very, very few exceptions. Add roads to it. Congo for instance has less road kms now than under the Belgian rule 50 years ago.
Not to forget that the imperialistic times of the European countries are long gone. You can´t compare the people of the 19th century with today, judge them after our knowledge and morale. That would be unfair to them.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 20):
I had this experience with my first, Filipina, ex wife. One day she was at home, while I was at work and opened a letter from my bank, in which the bank told me that they had increased my overdraft limits. Immediately she called her family and promised them to send a few thousand Deutschmarks (to be financed by me taking on debts).
I was in the same situation, since she argued that I couldn't break a "promise" she as wife has given to her family, since she would loose face.
My second, West african ex was similar, very fast in sppending money she didn't have to work for.

Sadly thats the behaviour of many immigrants who come due to economical reasons, the majority so to say. I have had the same experience for some time, my wife did the same, and I know it from others firsthand, too. But to force someone to take debt to pay for it is indeed ridiculous, I hav never heard such before. One of the main reasons why such marriages are divorced. You must see that these people are often send as a last chance for their family.
 
Marco
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:02 pm

Pierre,

Dekhiwet akhooni?

I am an Assyrian from Northern Iraq as well!
My parents immigrated to Canada in the 80s and we moved to Kuwait! Currently, we are living in Dubai...

It's quite sad that we're so spread throughout the world. It's good to see a fellow Assyrian on a.net!

Take care
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
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OA260
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:24 pm



Quoting NA (Reply 22):
You can´t compare the people of the 19th century with today,

Sorry my Fathers country only got their Independance in the late 60's as did many others. It was not that long ago.
 
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yowza
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:35 pm

This all boils down to what country you live in. Having lived in the UK I can tell you that the degree of integration of immigrants there versus here in Canada is quite interesting. In Canada multiculturalism is the law, this allows people to be Canadian but to preserve and pay homage to whatever roots they have - there is no pressure to assimilate. Perhaps you should consider a jaunt over here...

It is also possible that you are simply experiencing the pains common to any third culture kid - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Culture_Kids - it will pass.

YOWza
 
JoshSixtySeven
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:53 pm

I'm a firm believer of home is where the heart is, and that old motto. A little sad and emotional perhaps, but nevertheless it holds some truth, or in my case atleast:

I was born and raised in the UK, as were my parents, as were their parents. However, although I'm British and I consider myself English, this country doesn't feel like "home" to me anymore.

I first went to Canada, in specifically Toronto in about 2004 and regardless of whether I have a visa or not, whenever I walk through those big glass doors and into the streets of Toronto I get an overwhelming sense of "I'm home", even more so than when I cross the threshold into my own house!
Speed has never killed anyone, it's suddenly becoming stationary that gets you...
 
Kiwirob
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:53 pm



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 20):
I had this experience with my first, Filipina, ex wife. One day she was at home, while I was at work and opened a letter from my bank, in which the bank told me that they had increased my overdraft limits. Immediately she called her family and promised them to send a few thousand Deutschmarks (to be financed by me taking on debts).
I was in the same situation, since she argued that I couldn't break a "promise" she as wife has given to her family, since she would loose face.
My second, West african ex was similar, very fast in sppending money she didn't have to work for.

Sounds like you need to find yourself a European wife without all these family obligations.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 20):
On the other hand, my current fiancee, who is also from the Philippines, but much more educated and has made a good carrer of her own (she is a registered nurse and now assistant chief nurse in a posh nursing home in Ireland) never pulled such stunts.

Not meaning to play devils advocate here but what if she changes after marriage, she might just be waiting for that ring then all hell could break loose and she might just as well turn out like your other two.

As an immigrant myself I don't have any problems fitting into my new country, the only difficulty I have is learning the language. My two boys will have no problem fitting in either, one was born in NZ the other here in Norway. The older one is already bilingual and the younger one should be when he learns to talk.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:54 pm



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 27):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 20):
On the other hand, my current fiancee, who is also from the Philippines, but much more educated and has made a good carrer of her own (she is a registered nurse and now assistant chief nurse in a posh nursing home in Ireland) never pulled such stunts.

Not meaning to play devils advocate here but what if she changes after marriage, she might just be waiting for that ring then all hell could break loose and she might just as well turn out like your other two.

Big differences. My exes basically came to Europe either on tourist visa or as "political refugee" and desperately needed a German national husband to stay here. Both came from a relatively poor background (my first ex was also a nurse, but came from a rather poor fisherman's family, my African ex's family came from a merchant family, which had lost about everything during the civil war in Sierra Leone).
My first ex got herself a job in her profession, but never had any ambition to progress, instead she had a big sense of entitlement.
My second ex was an expert in scrounging off welfare.
My first ex, after our divorce, moved to the US, where she failed totally and also is on and off welfare.
My second one now lives somewhere in the UK, most likely also from welfare.

My present girlfriend came to Ireland recruited by the Irish government during the nursing crisis about ten years ago. She has a resident status in Ireland and will apply for naturalisation shortly.
She started humble, but worked herself up into a management position. She earns about as much as I do.
She owns a car in Ireland and a house in the Philippines. She is of Filipino middle class background, her parents own a nice house and a car. All her brothers and sisters went to college and, except for two sisters, who are married housewives with children, and one younger sister, who is currently studying for the nursing exams, have jobs. E.g. one brother is an officer with the Philippine National Police.

Unlike the other two women, my current girlfriend doesn't need me for material things. She has money of her own and doesn't need a husband for a residence permit.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:09 pm



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 28):
a residence permit.

-
all three were/are FIRST generation immigrants who immigrated themselves. The starter of this thread however referred to 2nd and 3rd generation "immigrants" who mostly were born in the "guest country" and many of whom are citizens of the "guest country" and very often NOT of the country of origin. Personal "ethnic" looks and possibly also to some extent mentality may however give them the feeling not really to belong to the main, while a "return" to their origin is practically impossible during their working life. If there is a "community" of people sharing the same or similar origin, people may feel drawn of course.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:12 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 29):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 28):
a residence permit.

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all three were/are FIRST generation immigrants who immigrated themselves. The starter of this thread however referred to 2nd and 3rd generation "immigrants" who mostly were born in the "guest country" and many of whom are citizens of the "guest country" and very often NOT of the country of origin. Personal "ethnic" looks and possibly also to some extent mentality may however give them the feeling not really to belong to the main, while a "return" to their origin is practically impossible during their working life. If there is a "community" of people sharing the same or similar origin, people may feel drawn of course.

And I was responding to post #10 from Zentraedi, where he wrotee about his experiences with his Filipino mother's family.

Jan
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:02 am



Quoting Ps76 (Reply 6):
"homeland"

How is Iraq even your homeland? You are born in the UK. That IS your homeland. Hmm I am confused.

My father immigrated from Mexico to the United States and I was born here (my father is a citizen now yes). I go to Mexico plenty of times to visit family and just be there. I will say that I absoultly love the Latin culture over the American filth any day that people call the "American Dream". I am very greatful to be an American citizen and be free in my country but sometimes I just can not stand the people in my country that ruin it day in and day out. Okay my rant is over  Smile
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:44 pm

My wife's great grandparents left the UK (Scotland and Northern Ireland) for South Africa, that would make her 4th generation emigrant. She has now returned to the UK, leaving her parents and rest of her family in South Africa. She feels completely South African, even though she's been here for 11 years now and has a UK passport, and her own ancestors came from here.

As for me, I've never emigrated from anywhere, but my parents both come from east London, but moved before I was born to Norfolk. I am completely Norfolk, not one drop of Londoner in me  Smile

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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:40 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 31):
How is Iraq even your homeland? You are born in the UK. That IS your homeland. Hmm I am confused.

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Homeland is both the country of origin AND the country of birth and/or residence and/or citizenship. So that his "homelands" are Iraq and Britain. The place of birth is of minor relevance.
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To give an example. If you, on holidays of your parents, get born in Switzerland, you nevertheless have no rights beyond that of a tourist in Switzerland, not even a right of permanent residence. Nobody cares about where you were born.
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:33 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 33):
To give an example. If you, on holidays of your parents, get born in Switzerland, you nevertheless have no rights beyond that of a tourist in Switzerland, not even a right of permanent residence. Nobody cares about where you were born.

Is not Switzerland one of those countries that doesnt really like foreginers to become citizens anyways?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 33):
Homeland is both the country of origin AND the country of birth

If you are born in Britain that is of course your country of birth...say you do not go back to Iraq because your parents now live in Britian, how is Iraq yoru country of origin when YOU never started out there?
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:14 am



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 34):
Is not Switzerland one of those countries that doesnt really like foreginers to become citizens anyways?

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"doesn't really like" is a mild expression ! And almost an understatement. No, foreigners are not exactly encouraged to do so ! It of course to a very wide extent depends on the Canton and on the community (village/town/city) where you are.
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Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 34):
how is Iraq yoru country of origin when YOU never started out there?

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if some of your ancestors were from their, it is of course one of your countries of origin. Your origin is not the place of birth/residence necessarily.
 
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:27 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 35):
if some of your ancestors were from their, it is of course one of your countries of origin. Your origin is not the place of birth/residence necessarily.

Okay so would the PC term be familys country of orgin? Because I do not say my country of orgin is Mexico. Just thinking here.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 35):
"doesn't really like" is a mild expression !

I just tried to keep it clean  Smile haha
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:44 pm



Quoting Ps76 (Thread starter):
Hi,

Was just wondering what experience people might have had regarding being 2nd generation (or other) in a country vs. returning to their homeland. I guess the topic is similar for Ex-pat workers too(?) Personally my parents came to the UK from Iraq in the 1960's. I don't know the exact reasons but I know my mum just felt that life was becoming too strict/restricive their and they wanted to be free. However obviously the Uk will never be my real country and while I've very grateful to live here (I don't think I'd last 2 seconds in Iraq!) I wonder how long people can live homeless so-to-speak. If I wanted to go "home" I guess it would be to the villages in Northern Iraq where my ancestors came from (I'm Assyrian which is a Christian minority from the North).

I guess I'm just asking what people thoughts about such a topic might be. Can people live as "immigrants" for multiple generations? Do people feel the desire to return to their homeland? I know I have one friend who returned to living in Hungary and one is Israel after finishing university although personally I don't even speak Assyrian or Arabic not to mention returning to a "homeland" which doesn't really exist except for a few villages who's security and future is probably about as certain as the stock market(!)

Any thoughts/experiences etc. welcome.

Many thanks,

Pierre.

It's a little different in the US I suppose being that it's a nation of immigrants. My grandfather was from the "old country" as we say here in America. He never had a desire to go back. In fact my uncle asked him one time if he wanted to and he said "I didn't like it when I lived there, why would I want to go back?"

As for my dad and uncle they never learned the "native" language. That's because my grandpa married an American girl therefore it was not spoken in the house. Also he never encouraged my dad or uncle to learn it. While some immigrant groups speak the home countries language and customs followed others try and erase every aspect of it. That was the case with my grandfather. On a little side note there was a study done on immigrants here in the US. Usually by the third generation the original language is no longer spoken.
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RE: 2nd Generation Immigrants: Homeland Return(?)

Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:18 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 36):
would the PC term be familys country of orgin?

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if you prefer this one, why not. In a way YES.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 36):
Because I do not say my country of orgin is Mexico.

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If your grandfather was Mexican and living in Mexico, and particularily if you have "Mexican looks" (whatever this is ........) you may regard Mexico as one of your countries of origin. Or you can ignore that nation nevertheless.
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