QXatFAT
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Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:39 am

I heard about somethin that happend up in Lansing, Michigan last weekend and did a search online for the news articles to see if it was real. Well, it was real.

A gay rights group called "Bash Back" set up a disruption inside and outside of a church. Apparently they had confety tubes set up that spit out confety and condoms. A few groups set up in the church stood up and started shouting "Jesus was gay!" and two females went up on stage and started kissing.

If you read the article linked, it also states that a news reporter was tipped on it and instead of letting the church know, decided to show up so they could get the story. What in the world?

I read a few different articles so not all is in the one I posted.

http://www.freep.com/article/20081112/NEWS06/811120316/1008/NEWS
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NIKV69
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:00 am

Yep didn't get their way so time to start crossing lines. Now you can't even have a church service without these whackos coming in and acting like total morons.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
dxing
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:03 am

That's the way to show that you have a reasoned argument that will convince the voting public you are on the right side of the issue.
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WarRI1
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:06 am

That has to be the dumbest of the dumb, talk about uncouth. What a way to get people to support Gay Rights. Pulling those stunts inside of the church, or anywhere. What were they thinking?  Sad
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skyservice_330
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:11 am

Disrupting somebodys religious observance is NOT the way to get your point across, and I doubt this incident will endear the group to anyone.

There are radicals and fringe elements in every community and movement. Clinic bombers don't represent all abortion activists and Westboro does not represent all Christians. Likewise, this group does not represent all gay rights activists.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:15 am



Quoting SKYSERVICE_330 (Reply 4):
There are radicals and fringe elements in every community and movement. Clinic bombers don't represent all abortion activists and Westboro does not represent all Christians. Likewise, this group does not represent all gay rights activists.

Well said. There are ways and there are ways. This isn't one of them. There is always one bad apple (or a few) in the bunch.
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searpqx
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:27 am



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 5):

Quoting SKYSERVICE_330 (Reply 4):
There are radicals and fringe elements in every community and movement. Clinic bombers don't represent all abortion activists and Westboro does not represent all Christians. Likewise, this group does not represent all gay rights activists.

Well said. There are ways and there are ways. This isn't one of them. There is always one bad apple (or a few) in the bunch.

Agreed, this type of behavior is unacceptable, no matter who's doing it and who the target is.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
QXatFAT
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:29 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 5):
There is always one bad apple (or a few) in the bunch.

And that goes for all people groups...religous, sexual orientation, and political parties.

[Edited 2008-11-17 19:30:00]
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Aaron747
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:05 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 2):
That's the way to show that you have a reasoned argument that will convince the voting public you are on the right side of the issue.



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 3):
What a way to get people to support Gay Rights. Pulling those stunts inside of the church, or anywhere. What were they thinking?

These people are idiots and they're wrong. They should serve whatever time necessary for disturbing the peace, public nuisance, and trespassing. Anybody with an ounce of sense and reason can see that and call it what it is. But don't try and play that game with this "showing on the right side of the issue" nonsense. It's too easy to put that shoe on the other foot - if this is tit-for-tat, then we are to believe the "other" side of this issue is gay-hating psychos in Wyoming responsible for murdering an innocent teen, and equally psychotic bashers who beat and murder transgender individuals to the tune of ten to fifteen a year, according to some watchdog groups. It's an ugly game to play, so let's not go down that road.
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QXatFAT
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:13 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
They should serve whatever time necessary for disturbing the peace, public nuisance, and trespassing.

I believe the article states, or another one I read, that there were no arrests or charges pressed at the time.

Also, I dont think this was some po-duck country church in Lansing either. My friends here at my College told me it was something in the thousands that attend (~ 3,000 to 4,000 they say) aka a "Mega Church".
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DocLightning
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:13 am

This saddens me.

Oh, I've fantasized about horrible things happening to churches and those who supported these hateful measures. I've fantasized about molotov cocktails and meteors and lightning strikes. I'm only human.

But I wouldn't DO it. And I don't condone it.

In my opinion, it is best to let the other side resort to these tactics. And frankly, even though they didn't cause any physical harm, this was tactless and counterproductive.

Now, picketing outside a church? That's fine and I'd even participate in it. That's a fundamental right AS LONG AS you don't block access or harass individuals entering and leaving.

The individuals responsible should be held responsible as per the law for trespassing and vandalism at the very least. I would also expect prominent gay leaders to stand up and strongly condemn such behavior.
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searpqx
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:36 am



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 12):
"So's yer auntie" has never been a very good argument

Unfortunately, its the favorite one in this forum.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
Now, picketing outside a church? That's fine and I'd even participate in it. That's a fundamental right AS LONG AS you don't block access or harass individuals entering and leaving.

I was a proud participant of our local protest march this weekend, and I will be again I'm sure. There are plenty of ways to get our message across, without resorting to measures that give our foes more ammunition.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
pwm2txlhopper
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing

Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:22 am

It's so nice to see these groups "celebrating diversity" as they preach that everybody else needs to!

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):

Oh, I've fantasized about horrible things happening to churches and those who supported these hateful measures. I've fantasized about molotov cocktails and meteors and lightning strikes. I'm only human.

If that makes you only human, than I guess it's o.k. if I've also fantasized about waking up to find all the sodomites had drowned in the ocean never to be seen running around shirtless and making out at pride parades every again! Hey, I'm only human! And normal. But hey, it's only a fantasy! Thank god for diversity! The world would be so black and white if everybody was morally bankrupt and liberal!

If it's o.k for gays to hate, than so can I!

[Edited 2008-11-17 21:32:38]
 
searpqx
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:09 am



Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 15):
It's so nice to see these groups "celebrating diversity" as they preach that everybody else needs to!

What 'groups'? All I read about was one small group, 'gay anarchists' I believe they were called. And I have yet to read anyone condoning their actions

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 15):
If it's o.k for gays to hate, than so can I!

You've never needed an excuse to express it before, why start now?
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
dxing
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:27 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
But don't try and play that game with this "showing on the right side of the issue" nonsense.

Unfortunately for them, since this is what gets the publicity, it's also what people remember.
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SmithAir747
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:28 am

A similar thing, but on a much greater scale, happened here in San Francisco in 1993.

Hamilton Square Baptist Church, in San Francisco, was the target of a big riot by a group of gay activists. Word had gotten out to them that a guest preacher was coming to preach at the church, so a large group of activists showed up. Rioters actually tried to block parishioners from entering the church (some people, including children, were even harassed and frightened by rioters whilst trying to enter for the service), the rainbow flag was briefly hoisted up on the church's flagpole, and even some vandalism was committed. San Francisco police were there but made no arrests. Some rioters even tried to forcibly enter through the main and side entrances to disrupt the service.

Not a good way to further any cause!

SmithAir747
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HOMER71
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:13 pm



Quoting SKYSERVICE_330 (Reply 4):
There are radicals and fringe elements in every community and movement.

Well, then probably this story won't get any run on CNN or FOXNews (last time I checked) since these morons don't fairly represent gays, right?

But, wait, why is that idiot priest who is requiring Obama supporters to repent before receiving communion grabbing headlines on the major media outlets? Isn't he considered a radical/fringe element of the Catholic Church?
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flynavy
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:20 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
Yep didn't get their way so time to start crossing lines.

Yeah, sort of like the right-wing racists and bigots in this country now levying death threats against our President-elect, hanging effigies in trees, this list goes on and on...

Pot, kettle, black.
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stlgph
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:38 pm

Sounds like a fraternity is having a rush week.
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DocLightning
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:35 pm



Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 12):

If that makes you only human, than I guess it's o.k. if I've also fantasized about waking up to find all the sodomites had drowned in the ocean never to be seen running around shirtless and making out at pride parades every again!

You're quite welcome to it, too. That's your right as long as you don't ever act on it.

Of course, I hate these people because of what they've done to me. I have no wish to see the Presbyterian Church down the street firebombed. They didn't do anything wrong; in fact, they opposed Prop 8.

And you just hate me for who I am. Which is your right. And it's mine to hate you back.
-Doc Lightning-

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ThePRGuy
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:06 pm

Its a shame.

You get nutjobs both sides of the fence, anti-gay lunatics (one particular family with a cult like mother springs to mind - she was on tyra banks not too long ago) and then these loonietunes pro-gay nutters who think its OK to interrupt people and cause havoc.

You get nutters everywhere
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signol
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:06 pm



Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 12):
than so can I

Matthew 22 vv 37-40

signol
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DocLightning
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:45 pm



Quoting Signol (Reply 21):

Matthew 22 vv 37-40

Signol,

I've heard the most amazing things justified as "love." From hatred to torture and murder.

Words without works, yes. But the words are still there.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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signol
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:56 pm

Doc,

I'm with you. I've seen so many people do things in the name of religion that they cannot possibly truly believe in God. Bigotry and hatred have no place in the heart of any true Christian.

signol
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NIKV69
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:59 pm



Quoting Flynavy (Reply 17):
Yeah, sort of like the right-wing racists and bigots in this country now levying death threats against our President-elect, hanging effigies in trees, this list goes on and on...

Pot, kettle, black.

With the execption of the two morons arrested for plotting to do harm to Obama pleae provide sources. Kind of funny but they did hang Palin an effigy too. Let's not have selective memory Chris. It works both ways.

Pot, kettle, black once again.
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Dougloid
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing

Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:23 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 24):
With the execption of the two morons arrested for plotting to do harm to Obama pleae provide sources.

How about Ted Nugent?

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdail...inton-during-vicious-onstage-rant/


Cartrell, Adolph, Johnson and Gromek?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...o-kill-Barack-Obama-uncovered.html

Ray Geyfil?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zgbj-yeLb8

I can do this all afternoon. The right is not going to slide off the hook on this one.

Here's some light reading. The secret service doesn't give out numbers.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27724965/
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
NIKV69
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:31 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 25):
I can do this all afternoon. The right is not going to slide off the hook on this one

Slide off the hook with what? So some nuts are making verbal threats so what? We are talking about people invading people liberties and disrupting church services. So until these whackos start actually taking pot shots at Obama. (Which will probably never happen) Give me a break. Ted Nugent? LOLOL you really believe he is going to follow through with his threat?
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
iairallie
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:53 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
And you just hate me for who I am. Which is your right. And it's mine to hate you back.

What a waste of time. The people who hurt me or try to aren't worth the energy that goes into hatred. I can honestly say I don't hate anyone. There are people who try my patience or hurt my feelings. There are people I'd rather avoid but hate so pointless.
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slider
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:03 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 7):
And that goes for all people groups...religous, sexual orientation, and political parties.

Yes, moral relativism at its finest.

Let's paint everyone with the same brush. Human nature is what it is, but this is one more example of those who want, no--demand, tolerance, being the most intolerant of dissent.
 
jcs17
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:04 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
Oh, I've fantasized about horrible things happening to churches and those who supported these hateful measures. I've fantasized about molotov cocktails and meteors and lightning strikes. I'm only human.

Doesn't that strike you as a wee bit immature and insecure?
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SkyyKat
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:19 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Thread starter):
and two females went up on stage and started kissing.

Any Pictures!!?!?!?!
 
slider
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:21 pm



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 29):
Doesn't that strike you as a wee bit immature and insecure?

You forgot intolerant.
 
SkyyKat
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:23 pm



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 29):
Doesn't that strike you as a wee bit immature and insecure?

It doesn't strike you that you lack a sense of humor?
 
ThePRGuy
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:23 pm



Quoting SkyyKat (Reply 30):
Any Pictures!!?!?!?!

They would have been frumpy dogs with leather jackets and piercings anyway.
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
SkyyKat
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:24 pm



Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 33):
They would have been frumpy dogs with leather jackets and piercings anyway.

You had to go and ruin it for me! Booooo
 
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mariner
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing

Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:58 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 14):
Unfortunately for them, since this is what gets the publicity, it's also what people remember.

Sadly, that is true.

In this one piece of silly, if impassioned, theatrics, an entire history of gay bashing and gay murder is forgotten or ignored.

Remember Matthew Shepherd, beaten to a pulp and left to die on a fence in the freezing cold for no other reason than he was gay?

Matthew Shepherd was neither the first nor the last and to a very real extent, many churches have either tacitly encouraged it by preaching intolerance or have been silent on this matter - (qui tacet consentire) - those who are silent are assumed to agree.

This nonsense in the church should not have happened, but I am bemused by the hypocrisy of those who have consented to gay bashing by not condemning it now trying to claim the high moral ground.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
waterpolodan
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:44 pm

Reminds me of this article from the onion, it's been posted here a few times before I think-
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28491
 
iairallie
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:53 pm



Quoting SkyyKat (Reply 32):



Quoting SkyyKat (Reply 32):
Quoting JCS17 (Reply 29):
Doesn't that strike you as a wee bit immature and insecure?

It doesn't strike you that you lack a sense of humor?

Um they weren't talking about your post.

I don't think discussing how you secretly harbor desires to see violence perpetrated against a group with whom you disagree as LightningDoc stated is funny in any way.
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flynavy
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:39 pm

I'm confident that one day this country will come to its senses. We're certainly moving in the right direction...

The "moral high ground" religious right-wing is the real obstacle to equality in this country. They financed Prop 8 (to the tune of $20 million) and led a slanderous, misleading campaign that convinced voters that voting for of Prop 8 was a vote to protect their religious freedom.

I wonder if they could have found a better use for $20 million?! Like, I don't know, feeding the homeless, caring for disabled Veterans, financing breast cancer research or - dare I say it - AIDS research.

[Edited 2008-11-18 14:42:34]
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SkyyKat
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:05 pm



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 44):
I don't think discussing how you secretly harbor desires to see violence perpetrated against a group with whom you disagree as LightningDoc stated is funny in any way.

Where do you get your drugs from??!!!!!!???!!!?


Is most of the USA devoid of humor? AirAillie: Doc's paraphrase was clearly comical.... Grow a freakin' sense of humor!... What the hell do you want from a comical statement woman!? I am sorry for the sexist comment, but C’mon! Chill the hell out!
 
fraspotter
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:19 pm



Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 20):
You get nutters everywhere

While here on this site you just get a.nutters...  Silly
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Superfly
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:21 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Thread starter):
A gay rights group called "Bash Back" set up a disruption inside and outside of a church. Apparently they had confety tubes set up that spit out confety and condoms. A few groups set up in the church stood up and started shouting "Jesus was gay!" and two females went up on stage and started kissing.

Were these gays a bunch of 'fisher of men'?  duck 
Perhaps they went to the right place.  Smile
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QXatFAT
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:25 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 56):
Were these gays a bunch of 'fisher of men'?

Oh boy Superfly. You just had to spill the beans didnt ya haha. Actually it was females to my understanding that were mostly protesting, so fisher of "men" might be the wrong sex  

[Edited 2008-11-18 15:25:43]
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luv2fly
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:26 pm

Being from MI I would have thought to get more bang for the buck, no pun intentded! GRR would be a larger and better target as it is the bible belt of MI. You have the worlds largest religious publisher located there, AmWay is another example.

I do not agree on how this went down nor would I support it. Though it does kinda remind me f the group ActUp. God I'm showing my age.
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Superfly
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:30 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 57):
AmWay is another example.

Oh gosh I hate that cult!  vomit 
If that Church is in any way affiliated with AmWay, then I am all in favor of disrupting their service.
Bring back the Concorde
 
dxing
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:33 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 58):
so fisher of "men" might be the wrong sex

Yep, they would have been tongue and groove carpenters.  rotfl 
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
Superfly
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:38 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 58):
Oh boy Superfly. You just had to spill the beans didnt ya haha.

I just had to  stirthepot  a little.  Wink
Bring back the Concorde
 
iairallie
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:39 pm



Quoting SkyyKat (Reply 49):
Doc's paraphrase was clearly comical.... Grow a freakin' sense of humor!..

No, sadly it was not meant to be comical. He mentioned it before in the California's shame threads. I belive the mods may have deleted them. If you had this post in context with the earlier you'd realize it is no joke. Doc seems like an honest enough guy I'm sure he'd tell you himself he wasn't saying it to be funny.
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luv2fly
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RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:47 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 60):
Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 58):
so fisher of "men" might be the wrong sex

Yep, they would have been tongue and groove carpenters.

Like I tell my boyfrend all the time, if only you find it funny then maybe it's better to keep it to yourself.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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DocLightning
Posts: 20154
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Church "Attacked" By Gay Rights Group: Lansing, MI

Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:41 am



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 29):

Doesn't that strike you as a wee bit immature and insecure?

Yeah, but I'm only human. I can't control what my brain does like that. I can control what I do about it.

What I am going to do about it is work through protesting, donating money to the appropriate causes, and doing whatever else I can to raise awareness that the people who have worked to pass a law that relegates me to being a second-class citizen are nothing more than hate groups and belong in the same category as the Aryan Nations and the KKK (groups who I've also fantasized about meeting particularly gory and spectacular ends, too).

But --and here is where I become a far better man than Hopper or anyone else in those groups-- I will defend their right to exist with my dying breath. I may spend a lifetime opposing what you believe and what you say, but I will give my life to defend your right to say it. As long as you don't try to DO it.

In the end, what this group did was wrong, but at least it was non-violent. It doesn't excuse it, but nobody was hurt by a blast of confetti.

Quoting Signol (Reply 23):

I'm with you. I've seen so many people do things in the name of religion that they cannot possibly truly believe in God. Bigotry and hatred have no place in the heart of any true Christian.

Here's the problem, Signol. If you go to the websites of these groups, like stormfront.org, you will see them pulling out Biblical arguments about how their "Love" for the White race is Jesus's love and how their hatred for everyone else is also a manifestation of that love.

And, frankly, who is to tell them they're wrong?

The problem with religion is not only that you can use it to justify anything, but that once you have God on your side, then not only are you justified, but you are actively doing the right thing!

This is the problem with "morality" in general. Morals can get very dangerous because they don't need to take into account the effects an action has on others; just the effect it has on God. Tragically, God has not clarified his position on these issues in quite some time.

I actively eschew morality for this very reason. But I am an ethical man and my main ethic is primum non nocere: "First, do no harm." These idiots disrupted a church service; they did harm. Wasn't much harm, but it was harm. And so in my view, they can go take a seat over near the KKK, also.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan

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