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Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:43 am

Buy them, take the technology and use it to build their own cars. I'd hate to think what would happen in the U.S. once walmart cars start showing up.. Hope it's not true.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bre...y-buy-gm-and-chrysler/#more-156041

[Edited 2008-11-18 19:42:22]
 
Phoenix9
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:44 am

I seriously hope its not true. I don't think the govt. is stupid enough to let a foreign company take control of such a big part of its economy (earlier CNN reported that there were 1.7 million jobs directly / indirectly tied to the Big Three). On top of that, the Walmart Car would be everyone's nightmere, especially when it comes to safety and reliability.
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steeler83
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:46 am

I heard that Nissan might be interested in Chrysler, or maybe it was written that Nissan would be a much better fit for Chrysler... I guess this might work...

Nissan is in a partnership with Chrysler; SAIC is in one with GM...
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ACDC8
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:50 am



Quoting Phoenix9 (Reply 1):
On top of that, the Walmart Car would be everyone's nightmere

A Wal Mart car would be great! Think about it, everytime you open the door, you could have a Wal Mart greeter's voice say "Welcome!" .... Big grin
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LAXintl
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:06 am

Excellent idea.

I dont care if its China or Russia or Zimbabwe. If someone wants to invest in these companies instead of throwing tax payer money at them I am all for it.
And you never know maybe foreign investors will have a better chance of running the companies then we have managed all these decades.
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Arrow
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:10 am



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
And you never know maybe foreign investors will have a better chance of running the companies then we have managed all these decades.

It's hard to believe they could do any worse. That industry has been run into the ground. It would be a mercy if it just died and let something new, with no baggage, spring up in its place.
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Continental
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:28 am



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
I dont care if its China or Russia or Zimbabwe. If someone wants to invest in these companies instead of throwing tax payer money at them I am all for it.

It's not a bad idea. Why throw so much money at them to keep them on their feet, so they can produce cars that no one can afford?
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:34 am



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):

I dont care if its China or Russia or Zimbabwe. If someone wants to invest in these companies instead of throwing tax payer money at them I am all for it.

Second that. Cue the protectionist rants any moment now....
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ltbewr
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:39 am

I don't think any politican would allow ownership of any of the 'big 3' to go to a China based company. There are too many national security issues, the profits would be exported and we have a enough issues with China today.
 
A332
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:10 pm

Then I will be purchasing a Ford-built vehicle from now on if that's the case!
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mt99
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:18 pm



Quoting Phoenix9 (Reply 1):
the Walmart Car would be everyone's nightmere, especially when it comes to safety and reliability.

The Chinese are capable of producing highly reliable equipment. How many Chinese manufactured components are in critical systems and products that you depend on everyday?
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slider
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:23 pm



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 8):
There are too many national security issues

Such as?

I don't think people understand how deep China is in the US' interests already.

They’re sitting on 2 trillion in greenbacks, we’ve allowed them to take our entire manufacturing sector as it is, so why not allow them to be saddled with the albatross of the Big Three…better than the taxpayers.

China is a monster—a dragon that is consuming everything in sight. The US auto companies cannot stand up to them right now, they just cannot and will not be able to hold their own. The only option is to file BK, restructure and be able to compete then with a rational cost model. Otherwise, they’re hosed one way or another. The people who are surprised by this are naïve.
 
johns624
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:24 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
And you never know maybe foreign investors will have a better chance of running the companies then we have managed all these decades.

I'd think it would be great. Instead of top executives getting bonuses for running the companies into the ground, they commit assisted suicide, just like the Chinese execs did in the lead paint fiasco. Wink
 
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falstaff
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:22 pm



Quoting Continental (Reply 6):
so they can produce cars that no one can afford?

I can afford one and so can everyone else I know.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
If someone wants to invest in these companies instead of throwing tax payer money at them I am all for it.

Should we let China, Russia or any other country buy our banks too?

A 25 Billion loan is a a lot better deal than a 700 billion bailout. Chrysler paid the last loan back early and with interest. That was a god deal as far as tax payers were concerned. It worked once why not try it again.

A lot of people didn't want the governmnet to take over railroad operations in the northeast in the 1970s. Penn Central collapsed in 1976(bad merger to start with). The government formed Consolidated Rail (ConRail) and by 1987 the company was able to be sold on the open market. Tean years after that the company was sucessful enough to be fought over by CSX and Norfolk Southern. A government bailout worked then too. Both the ConRail deal and the first Chrylser deal worked out great for the US economy and US taxpayers.
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mt99
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:32 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 13):
Should we let China, Russia or any other country buy our banks too?

Dont the Saudis practically own Citibank?

Who own thins now a days? Everyone does! from people trading in their pajamas from a basement in Australia, to the country of United Arab Emirates investments in overseas private companies.
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falstaff
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:47 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 14):
Who own thins now a days? Everyone does! from people trading in their pajamas from a basement in Australia, to the country of United Arab Emirates investments in overseas private companies.

So it doesn't matter where the money goes? Keep Amercian money in the USA when at all possible. I doubt you understand that considering you claim to live in the United States, but don't bother claiming the USA as your country.
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mt99
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:51 pm

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 15):
Keep Amercian money in the USA when at all possible.

That train has sailed(*) dude. Welcome to Globalization You might not agree with it, but there is no turning back.

(*) Austin Power Reference

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 15):
claim to live in the United States,

I claim to live in inhabited island close to Antarctica...

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 15):

So it doesn't matter where the money goes?

Money should go to the most efficient place.. and by the looks of it GM/Ford are not that place

[Edited 2008-11-19 08:53:47]
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LAXintl
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:04 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 13):
Should we let China, Russia or any other country buy our banks too?

Absolutely, and any other things they wish to invest in. Their money is as green as anyone's.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 15):
o it doesn't matter where the money goes? Keep Amercian money in the USA when at all possible.

Listen we live in a globalized world. US companies own many trillions in overseas assets, so its only right foreign entities to invest or acquire US companies or other holdings as well.

Limiting foreign ownership stifles access to capital for US business and acts as a major handicap for them. There is only an infinite number of investors or business ideas in the US.

For me the "Made in the USA" gaga label or being 100% domestically owned is not a sign or something good -- but something I cringe at. While we may hold ourselves in high esteem, America far from being the only country on the planet that knows how to successfully design, build and market a widget, or have the ability to own and manage large enterprises.
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falstaff
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:11 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 16):
I claim to live in inhabited island close to Antarctica...

No you don't. You claim your location has ORD. Last time I was there it was in Illinois.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 16):
That train has sailed(*) dude. Welcome to Globalization You might not agree with it, but there is no turning back.

10 years ago we were all told how great globalization was. Turns out it sucks for the average worker. Go ask some people that worked in manufacturing in the USA and Western Europe and you you can see that globalization doesn't help the average Joe.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
For me the "Made in the USA" gaga label or being 100% domestically owned is not a sign or something good -- but something I cringe at.

Go ahead and send every job that can be done cheaper someplace else to outside our country. What happens to all the people that still live here? We were told that we could move our econmy into a service economy. Guess what those jobs can go away too. There are close to 300,000,000 people in our country and they need good jobs in order to buy all the stuff that people claim can be made cheaper someplace else.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
For me the "Made in the USA" gaga label or being 100% domestically owned is not a sign or something good -- but something I cringe at

What about a product that is made in Germany, or England (are there any left?), or Japan. Are those products somehow inferior becuase they are made by a company owned by people in that country.

There are a lot of people in this world that hate their country but won't admit it. The way that manufacturing jobs have left the USA and Western Europe is a testament to government regulations and the spirit of the elitist left. The grass is always greener on the other side. When government regulates business into extinction in one country it just goes to another. How many US and European firms build stuff in China so they don't have to deal with envirmental issues. A lot of people think it is all labor costs and unions that have driven jobs away. The left's stupid enviromental policies have driven just as many, if not more, jobs away.

Today it seems that you want manufacturing growth in your country just get rid of unions, labor law, and envirmental laws and you will be making money hand over fist.

This summer I was in the UK and I talked with several ex coal miners who were out of work. because of stupid regulations in their country. They sounded just like the unemplyed coal miners I know in Southern Illinois.
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mt99
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:18 pm

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 18):

10 years ago we were all told how great globalization was. Turns out it sucks for the average worker. Go ask some people that worked in manufacturing in the USA and Western Europe and you you can see that globalization doesn't help the average Joe.

It helps the average Jose though. And, do you enjoy the fruits of cheap Chinese and Mexican labor?

Globalization would have not hurt Average Joe if the American companies he worked for would have been able to be more efficient...

Just how Sri Lanka cannot compete with the US aircraft industry, the US cannot compete with Sri Lankan sock and underwear manufacturing. On what level do you want the US to compete? On aircraft or on socks?

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 18):
What happens to all the people that still live here?

They get their local Wal-Mart filled with more and more crap. Enjoy!

[Edited 2008-11-19 11:22:23]
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srbmod
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:26 pm



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 2):
I heard that Nissan might be interested in Chrysler, or maybe it was written that Nissan would be a much better fit for Chrysler... I guess this might work...

The word is that the arrangement Chrysler and Nissan have would morph into Chrysler being part of the Renault-Nissan alliance (The same alliance Kirk Kekorkian tried to get GM to join two years ago.). Nissan is already slated to build a small Dodge (either in Japan or China) based off the Renault Clio/Nissan Cube. Dodge is getting ready to sell a restyled version of the Nissan Versa in several South American countries as the Dodge Trazo (replacing the Hyundai-built Nissan Atoz). There's also been rumors of Chrysler teaming up with Fiat on a vehicle based off of the Fiat 500.

What about VW as a potential investor in Chrysler? Chrysler currently builds the VW Routan, which is a minivan sold in the US and Canada (and soon Mexico). It's essentially a Chrysler Town and Country/Dodge Caravan with some VW styling tweaks and a few other VW elements.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:39 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 19):
And, do you enjoy the fruits of cheap Chinese and Mexican labor?

I avoid them at all costs. I only buy a non US or European made product when there is non alternative sold. I also don't mind products from Japan. However so many of trusted brands from Japan are now made in China.

The community where I live and work has not seen the benefits of globalization. We still have to live here.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 19):
They get their local Wal-Mart filled with more and more crap

Eventually people will only be able to work at Wal-Mart and will not be able to afford the products sold there or be able to live in the communities where they work.
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mt99
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:52 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 21):
I only buy a non US or European made product when there is non alternative sold. I also don't mind products from Japan.

How far do you go? I mean my GE Dryer may have components from Mexico and China, although it says "Made in USA"..
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falstaff
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:08 pm

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 22):
How far do you go? I mean my GE Dryer may have components from Mexico and China, although it says "Made in USA"..

I go as far final assembly. I would rather spend my money on products made in the USA by US companies, but I am satisfied with US made items built by non US companies. I want jobs and employment for my community and communities like mine. I own a variety of products (Honda lawn mower, Sony TV, SK/Facom tools, etc) made in the USA, but not made by US firms.

Sure these items may be able to be made cheaper someplace else, but if there is not enough people left with high paying jobs who will buy those products? If people all have low end jobs they will not buy Sony TV (some models are still made in the USA) or a Honda lawn mower. They will buy a low end brand that they can afford on their Wal-Mart salary.

What is Canada's position on an auto bailout? Canada helped the bail out Chrysler in 1979. The Canadian (especially Ontario0 has a lot to loose with a failure in the American auto industry. People like to knock the UAW, but the CAW is strong too. Everyone wants to kick around the Americans, but the Canadians are in this auto mess too and I don't hear people bashing them. I think that a lot of this negitive response to the auto bailout is just hating on the USA, and oddly this time most of it is coming from within out own country. How come I don't hear anyone bashing on Canada or the CAW?

Some people say well let the companies like Honda & Toyota come in and build cars. If a US auto firm shut down thos4e firms couldn't step in and ramp up production right away. It would take time.

Another thing to thing about. 50 years ago nobody would ever have though GM would be on the risk of bankruptcy. Who knows what Toyota's position might be in 50 years. What if they were to fail? Sure that isn't happening now, but what if? Nothing lasts forever. Who builds are vehicles then? Also a lot of US transplant builders buy from the same suppliers that US companies do. It isn't 1960 anymore where everything on a car is built by one company. If a company loses business from GM or whoever they may become insolvant and then can nolonger supply the foriegn builders. Non US owned production would come up, but it would take some time and by that time those companies would already be gone and things would have start all over again. All the supplier jobs would leave the US and so would the transplant plants because they wouldn't want the hassle of getting parts from one end of the earth to the other. Without a US auto industry there would be no reason to build cars here because everything would be cheaper to make someplace else.

[Edited 2008-11-19 12:17:59]
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mt99
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:43 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 23):
made in the USA, but not made by US firms.

I know Union Members who would not agree with you there.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 23):
Nothing lasts forever.

Like the US economic power in the world..

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 23):
Who builds are vehicles then?

India, China. Who builds computers now? Who used to build computers 20 years ago?

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 23):
Sure these items may be able to be made cheaper someplace else, but if there is not enough people left with high paying jobs who will buy those products?

Back to my example. Sock do not offer high paying jobs..

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 23):
Also a lot of US transplant builders buy from the same suppliers that US companies do.

I am not sure how accurate your statement is. But in any case the way they buy is completely different. The Japanese supply chain is vastly different than US Auto makers.

How come Toyota brings plant to the US while GM send plants to Mexico?
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LAXintl
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:00 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 23):
I would rather spend my money on products made in the USA by US companies, but I am satisfied with US made items built by non US companies.

Well by limiting yourself to only Made in the USA products, you are not only limiting the choices available to you, but also potentialy settle for things that are worse values in either price or quality.

As a consumer I am extremely happy I live in a society that offers wide range of choices in near every item imaginable, and I see no value to the chest thumping and chasing after Made in USA products if they are not the best available, nor why its important for the US to try to compete or manufacture everything imaginable from toilet paper to reconnaissance satellites.
Frankly I don't care if a widget is made in Angola or the US, I will purchase what is seemingly the best value for me.

oh btw - you better watch what you eat also. Huge portions of our food chain come from foreign sources also.
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LTU932
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:21 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
I dont care if its China or Russia or Zimbabwe. If someone wants to invest in these companies instead of throwing tax payer money at them I am all for it.
And you never know maybe foreign investors will have a better chance of running the companies then we have managed all these decades.

I agree, as long as it's private investors and not something that is public and dependent on tax payer's money. Problem is that there will be people who will run interference, and not allow such a deal to happen.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:53 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 24):
I know Union Members who would not agree with you there.

I know a lot of union members who would also disagree with me, but when I go tho their homes I see a lot of cheap junk made in China. They seem to think that theirs is the only job that matters.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 24):
India, China. Who builds computers now? Who used to build computers 20 years ago?

Who will build computers when India and China become too expensive? Where will the people of India and China work when their jobs are outsourced?

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 24):
The Japanese supply chain is vastly different than US Auto makers.

A lot of automotive suppliers sell to both US and transplant firms, like Visteon. I know many people in the industry and see it when I work on cars. A lot of transplant firms sell parts to the US builders, like Yazaki.
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VonRichtofen
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:04 pm

God I hope we don't see Chinese cars here  Wink

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs-AmaS7dis
 
mt99
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:07 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 27):
Who will build computers when India and China become too expensive? Where will the people of India and China work when their jobs are outsourced?

Things will move down a "step". Costa Rica now has sizable Intel chip plant....
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Flighty
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:28 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 27):
I know a lot of union members who would also disagree with me, but when I go tho their homes I see a lot of cheap junk made in China. They seem to think that theirs is the only job that matters.

Of course. That is the paradox of unions. Everybody wants the union wage premium for themselves. But what if your union headquarters staff wants to form a union? The big union will crush that little union like a bug! How dare those animals form a union. Then both groups would be fighting over the same goodies.

So the paradox is, unions cancel each other out. If we were all unionized we would not have better wages. In fact they would probably be worse due to frictions, inefficient work rules etc. This is why union companies are so vulnerable to going bankrupt. Customers (including union members) are not willing to pay extra for union made goods. And if they were, we'd be right back where we started, since we would buy less stuff at higher prices. It's not better, just different. The same could be achieved nationally by voting for middle class wealth redistribution. This is more efficient than disrupting the industrial system... besides you can't prevent nonunion upstarts from taking your market share. Unions will never win but they won't ever lose, either.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:39 pm



Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 28):
God I hope we don't see Chinese cars here

Too late. The Chinese have already invaded the Costa Rican, and possibly also Central American market with their rolling deathtraps, and it's only a matter of time until they reach the US and Canada as well.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:28 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 30):
But what if your union headquarters staff wants to form a union?

Good question.... I know the staff of my union are in the union, but what about with other unions?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 30):
Everybody wants the union wage premium for themselves

A lot of companies will pay union wages to keep unions out of their shops. I know, I worked for one.
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par13del
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:50 am

Ok, so lets say China buy's GM, what then?

1. China has a massive steel industry which is cheaper than its US counter part, so major assembly has to move to China to be competitive.
2. China already has massive fleets of ships arriving at US ports loaded with products and leaving with water ballast, so ships arriving with vehicle chasis is a no brainer.
3. Chinese workers can also assemble cars much cheaper that US workers, so how long before the push for a more completed product arriving in the US for say painting and putting on the wheels.

How many workers are employed by the steel industry in the US, bearing in mind it is now much smaller than it used to be due to 'globalization'
How many US workers are employed in the industries serving the auto companies?

The big 3 are basically the industrial engine of middle America, if some one other than Japan buy them you cannot expect them to do what Japan does with their US factories, so I think the point mentioned above are a distinct possibility.
 
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JBo
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:58 am



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 20):
The word is that the arrangement Chrysler and Nissan have would morph into Chrysler being part of the Renault-Nissan alliance (The same alliance Kirk Kekorkian tried to get GM to join two years ago.). Nissan is already slated to build a small Dodge (either in Japan or China) based off the Renault Clio/Nissan Cube. Dodge is getting ready to sell a restyled version of the Nissan Versa in several South American countries as the Dodge Trazo (replacing the Hyundai-built Nissan Atoz). There's also been rumors of Chrysler teaming up with Fiat on a vehicle based off of the Fiat 500.

For some reason, the thought of Renault being involved with Chrysler brings flashbacks of AMC.

Speaking of which, I wonder how feasible it would be to start a new, independent American automaker in lieu of the Big Three, and how successful it would be. Chances are economic timing would be everything.
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falstaff
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:12 am



Quoting JBo (Reply 34):
For some reason, the thought of Renault being involved with Chrysler brings flashbacks of AMC.

Those cars sucked.... Too bad AMC couldn't hang on a few more years until the SUV and all wheel drive car fad kicked into high gear.

Quoting Par13del (Reply 33):
The big 3 are basically the industrial engine of middle America

I couldn't agree more. But too many people think of us as flyover country and don't care. There is a lot more to the USA than California, New York, and New England. Anyone in the New England states who thinks the US auto industry should go away just needs to be reminded of the machine tool and firearms industry that once was so dominate there and that was either exported or sued out of existance.
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FruteBrute
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:52 am



Quoting T prop (Thread starter):
Buy them, take the technology and use it to build their own cars. I'd hate to think what would happen in the U.S. once walmart cars start showing up.. Hope it's not true.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bre...y-buy-gm-and-chrysler/#more-156041

So why is ok for the Germans to own Chrysler when they did?

Why is ok for GM to own Saab, and recently a large chunk of Fiat, along with major shareholdings in Chinese auto makers? Why is it ok for Ford to own Volvo, Aston Martin, Mazda and Jaguar?

The same rhetoric was used against Japan when everyone was screaming they were buying up America when they were buying storied properties like Rockefeller Center & dozens of prime golf courses.
 
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:53 am

The CHinese automotive industry is a burgeoning one alhtough none of their cars can pass the safety tests yet for export into the US. But it would not be long before that happens. Remember how the Koreans were laughed at not to long ago? So why is it so hard for people here to accept that the Chinese are no different?

The BIG 3 are in trouble now. That is true. From all the comments I have gathered so far a majority of you are still pretty ignorant about what is happening in the Chinese market. In case you didn't know, one of England's well loved MG Motors is under chinese hands now (they produced Rovers).

So I suggest everyone get more in tuned with reality, and not be so high handed.
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par13del
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:42 pm



Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 37):
The BIG 3 are in trouble now. That is true. From all the comments I have gathered so far a majority of you are still pretty ignorant about what is happening in the Chinese market. In case you didn't know, one of England's well loved MG Motors is under chinese hands now (they produced Rovers).

Agreed, and where is the industrial capacity of the UK now, how has these type of activity benefited the UK economy in the long and short run?
Take a look across the channel at France and Germany, their economies have been steered in a very different direction from the UK's, they have done a lot more to retain their capacity while the UK has 'out-sourced' theirs, in the larger picture, that is what the discussion is all about, these are two very different schools of thought as it relates to a countries development and continued viability, and so far the jury is still out on which method is better.

As mentioned earlier, when the Korean vehicles first showed up, their quality was nowhere, now they are gaining market share, this is no different than Airbus. The larger OEM's paid no attention to the start up company and look at where it got them, the same applies to the auto industry, the market share now being gained is at the expense of whose workers and industrial capacity, during the hearings we heard the numbers of jobs already lost prior to the crisis, since vehicles were still being bought, its stands to reason that those jobs simply went overseas.
 
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:25 pm



Quoting FruteBrute (Reply 36):
Quoting T prop (Thread starter):
Buy them, take the technology and use it to build their own cars. I'd hate to think what would happen in the U.S. once walmart cars start showing up.. Hope it's not true.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bre...y-buy-gm-and-chrysler/#more-156041


So why is ok for the Germans to own Chrysler when they did?

Why is ok for GM to own Saab, and recently a large chunk of Fiat, along with major shareholdings in Chinese auto makers? Why is it ok for Ford to own Volvo, Aston Martin, Mazda and Jaguar?

The same rhetoric was used against Japan when everyone was screaming they were buying up America when they were buying storied properties like Rockefeller Center & dozens of prime golf courses.

The Germans did a great job with Chrysler didn't they? .  Yeah sure
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:43 pm

A German entrepreneur wanted to buy Opel from GM-but the Americans refused.
He wants to convert Opel into a "green" car manufacturer,re-modelling the cars gradually into electric and hybrid- powered.
Currently the man-he owns Germany's largest solar-panel manufacturer,wanted to invest 1 Billion € into the new concept.
US manufacturers have missed the train ten yeras ago already,when eveybody targeted lower consumption cars. Nobody wants pick-ups any longer..
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LTU932
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:13 pm



Quoting T prop (Reply 39):
The Germans did a great job with Chrysler didn't they?

I tend to think the other way around: Chrysler did more damage to Daimler-Benz than Daimler ever did to Chrysler.

From my (probably uneducated) perspective, Daimler-Chrysler was more of a consortium than a true fusion of both Daimler and Chrysler. Daimler seemed to be operating independently, the same with Chrysler, just that the bottom line of both affected the whole of the company, just like GM's bottom line has affected Opel and vice versa. The point is that even after the merger, Chrysler was run very inefficiently and that has cost Daimler-Benz a lot of money, hence why they decided to split after almost 10 years.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 40):
A German entrepreneur wanted to buy Opel from GM-but the Americans refused.

I read in the media recently that the head of Opel wants to keep the company with GM (bad decision!), so maybe rejecting that entrepeneur's offer was just part of GM's company line. Also, regarding a possible state loan to Opel, one of the government's conditions would be to set up a kind of firewall, so any earnings Opel makes, DO NOT get transferred to General Motors. Why? It's obvious, because Opel will have to pay back that money, and because they need to generate revenue for themselves to stay afloat, otherwise it's business as usual, most of the earnings Opel makes will go to the head office.

This re-affirms my believe that Opel should stop following the Detroit company line and just split from GM (and the same would apply for Ford Europe, they should separate themselves from the head office in Detroit and operate on their own). I can't believe Opel still wants to stay with General Motors, knowing that GM is dying, regardless of US government bailouts or not, thanks to 90% to the UAW sucking the company dry with their outrageous benefits.
 
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:51 pm



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 8):
the profits would be exported

Heard that a million times. But from U.S. companies sending profits back to the U.S. from Brazil, instead. If everyone though that way the world would be screwed.

GM-Brazil is doing very well and without them and other foreign auto makers, we wouldn't even have an auto industry.

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 28):
God I hope we don't see Chinese cars here Wink

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs-AmaS7dis

LOL. Worse yet are Chinese DRIVERS.

Quoting Par13del (Reply 33):

3. Chinese workers can also assemble cars much cheaper that US workers, so how long before the push for a more completed product arriving in the US for say painting and putting on the wheels.

Honda just opened an assembly line in Alabama. KIA has a new one in Georgia. They could have opened one in China or South Korea or Mexico, but they chose the USA.

There is no reason why the U.S. can't have a manufacturing base.

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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:12 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 40):
Nobody wants pick-ups any longer..

They are still selling those cars. Without looking up more info, It's probably the one area that they can still make money. At least when in comes to Ford.

Sometimes it seems like Ford is more a truck company than a car company.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:26 am



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 41):
I tend to think the other way around: Chrysler did more damage to Daimler-Benz than Daimler ever did to Chrysler.

IMO, it was Daimler that was running the show. Chrysler president Jim Holden was replaced by Dieter Zetsche and other top executives in the US were replaced by German execs. The whole company, Daimler Chrysler, was controlled by the Germans. If Daimler- Benz was damaged, blame the execs who were running the company.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:51 am



Quoting T prop (Reply 44):
IMO, it was Daimler that was running the show. Chrysler president Jim Holden was replaced by Dieter Zetsche and other top executives in the US were replaced by German execs. The whole company, Daimler Chrysler, was controlled by the Germans. If Daimler- Benz was damaged, blame the execs who were running the company.

I don't fully know the details, so please take what I said with a barrel of salt or two. The point is that even during the existence of DaimlerChrysler, things didn't improve. When I heard of that merger, I had a feeling that this wouldn't last long, and this feeling was finally confirmed, when I heard of their split up.

Granted, maybe the people at Daimler didn't do what was necessary to improve Chrysler. I guess it's safe to say they were more concerned with the Mercedes-Benz part of their business and not so much Chrysler, hence why it was probably still "business as usual" at Chrysler in terms of their financial performance.
 
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RE: Chinese To Buy GM & Chrysler?

Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:19 am



Quoting Par13del (Reply 38):
Agreed, and where is the industrial capacity of the UK now, how has these type of activity benefited the UK economy in the long and short run?
Take a look across the channel at France and Germany, their economies have been steered in a very different direction from the UK's, they have done a lot more to retain their capacity while the UK has 'out-sourced' theirs,

Britain tried to hold on to their car industry as long as possible, as you seem to suggest. The result was government ownership oh British Leyland and some of the worst cars ever to don the roads (if they didn't break down before they left the dealership, that is).
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