Beaucaire
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The Fate Of Detroit...

Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:51 pm

Detroit has been more affected by the most recent down-turn in US car -manufacturing.
I don't want to discuss the manufacturers inability ( ..holy shit - you wonder what all those diplomas are worth people gain and pay for..) to anticipate new energy trends and car-design changes.I would be interetsed in the social-economic fall-out for Detroit.
A large fraction of US-Arabs live in Detroit and will inevitably be affected by the crash.
Medium class- independants,white collar workers,service industry,consumer-good sales- real-estate- all will be affected.
How are the city- major and politicians trying to stop a foreseeable desaster ?
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falstaff
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RE: The Fate Of Detroit...

Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:48 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
A large fraction of US-Arabs live in Detroit and will inevitably be affected by the crash.

Many of those people are business people. They own a lot of small family run businesses like liqour stores and restuarants. I would think they will be hit very hard by higher taxes and or a serious economic downturns. Like everyone else in the D they may venture into the underground economy. A lot of them already are in it. A favorite around my house is illegal gambling. A few Arab owned stores in my neighborhood already have illegal gambling parlors (in some cases they are out in the open) just like all the white and black owned bars.

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
Medium class- independants,white collar workers,service industry,consumer-good sales- real-estate- all will be affected.

It already has affected the housing business around here. My house was lost 25% of its value in four years. I now owe more than its worth. A lot of people think this mortage crisis has hit people who bought huge McMansions, but let me tell you it has hit the lower and lower middle classes too. My neighborhood is full of 600-1000 square foot homes built in the 1950s (mine is 700 sq ft and built in 1954. There are over 100 forclosed, empty, properties in my neighborhood. These were among the cheapest suburban properties in metro Detroit. All were under $100,000. If you wanted a home in a safe lower income part of town this was where you had to go.

I am happy because I have a decent job and great benefits. I will give thanks for that on Thanksgiving day.
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Beaucaire
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RE: The Fate Of Detroit...

Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:03 pm

I didn't image the Arabs to run liqueur shops in Detroit - the funny thing is that in Damascus it's the Christian Syrians who run the liquer selling outlets..( in the past many Jewish-Syrians did run them )
Tough times ahead for Detroit ,albeit all areas around the globe will be hit by the economic down-turn,but since Detroit combines that core -car industry of the US,it must be particularly severly impacted.
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dtwclipper
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RE: The Fate Of Detroit...

Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:20 pm

Do we really need two bash Detroit threads running at the same time? Que Doclighting and his hatred of the city.

Detroit will recover in the long run, we've been through this before.
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DocLightning
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RE: The Fate Of Detroit...

Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:28 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 2):
I didn't image the Arabs to run liqueur shops in Detroit

Sure they do. Whether they drink it or not, there is no religious injunction against selling it. If you drive up to a gas station or a convenience store (they're called "party stores" in Detroit) nine times out of ten the shopkeep is of some Mid-East extraction. In fact, metro Detroit has the world's largest Middle-Eastern population outside of the Middle-East.

Why? I have no idea. I would have figured they'd go somewhere a bit more like home, like Texas or Arizona.

The area also has a ginormous Jewish population. And they live together in peace. They don't tend to wind up at each-others' dinner parties, I'll grant, but there are no rocks or molotov cocktails being thrown, either.

And the Middle-Eastern food in Detroit is OUTSTANDING. I recommend La Sheik (sp?) on Orchard Lake just south of Long Lake (if memory serves). They serve kebabs upright on swords with the most delicious ground spiced lamb *wipes drool away*.

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):

How are the city- major and politicians trying to stop a foreseeable desaster ?

The answer is: they aren't.

So what needs to happen to revitalize Detroit?

Well, I think that the first thing that needs to happen is an honest reassessment of the city's potential. The potential for the next 100 years is quite low. So it's time to downsize the city. Rather than trying to pretend to be another Chicago, Detroit needs to clean itself up, demolish the abandoned buildings, plant parks and wildlife areas, and try to be Pittsburgh.

The next thing that needs to happen is that the various mayors of the communities around SE Michigan need to sit down and have a talk about what the region's center is. It's not downtown Detroit. Not much happens in Downtown anymore. Most people who live in the suburbs tend to work in the suburbs and Downtown is sterile, sanitized, and completely dead. To make things worse, Downtown is geographically stuffed over in a corner, while the metro area is the entire southeastern quadrant of the state stretching from Lansing over to Port Huron and straight down to the Indiana/Ohio border.

So if you're going to work on a public transport system, without which the region stands a 0.0% chance of ever recovering, then you'd want to center it not in Downtown, but in somewhere like Dearborn or Southfield. Southfield already has some density to it, so it might actually be a good candidate for being the new metropolitan center.

And then they need to start actively recruiting an industry. Pick TWO. You need at least two or you run the same risk that you did with the auto industry; when that industry suddenly dried up you're screwed. My suggestion would be pharmceuticals/biomed for one of the choices.
-Doc Lightning-

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mainMAN
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RE: The Fate Of Detroit...

Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:06 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 3):
Detroit will recover in the long run, we've been through this before.

To what extent has Detroit's economy diversified?

The loss of the automotive industry in Birmingham UK doesn't seem to have caused much harm there, although it was never on the same scale as Detroit's.
 
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falstaff
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RE: The Fate Of Detroit...

Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:14 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
I recommend La Sheik (sp?)

Are you thinking of la Shish? They are all closed. They went bankrupt when their own fled the country when they realized he was sending gobs of money to Hezbalah (spelling?). That was a good place.... A lot of people lost their jobs when that chain closed.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
Why? I have no idea. I would have figured they'd go somewhere a bit more like home, like Texas or Arizona.

For the jobs. There are also a lot of Arabs in Toledo and other manufacturing cities. They came to work and kept coming because they could live in neighborhoods with people like them.

Sometimes it feels like the middle east over in East Dearborn. There are a lot of shops with only Arabic signage. There is even a place on Michigan Avenue called the Islamic Superstore. I don't know what they sell, but it looks like a big operation. Back during the height of the Iraq war there were even drive by shootings and shop vandalism between Sunnis and Shiites.
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Beaucaire
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RE: The Fate Of Detroit...

Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:20 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 3):
Do we really need two bash Detroit threads running at the same time?

It is absolutely not my intentions to bash Detroit- I'm seriously interested in the fate of the city and don't play negative-emotional threads dealing with the lives of many hundreds of thousands of people.
Since I have a particular interst in Middle East matters and knowing Detroit is the "heart" of the US-Arab population,the issue is far from "bashing intention.."
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DocLightning
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RE: The Fate Of Detroit...

Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:00 am



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 6):

Are you thinking of la Shish? They are all closed. They went bankrupt when their own fled the country when they realized he was sending gobs of money to Hezbalah (spelling?). That was a good place.... A lot of people lost their jobs when that chain closed.

REALLY? Pity...
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PlymSpotter
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RE: The Fate Of Detroit...

Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:44 am



Quoting MainMAN (Reply 5):
The loss of the automotive industry in Birmingham UK doesn't seem to have caused much harm there, although it was never on the same scale as Detroit's.

Birmingham fell back largely onto the tertiary and distribution networks to soak up the job losses as many of the automotive plants closed down - quite whether all of these will survive the latest downturn is another matter.
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cptkrell
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RE: The Fate Of Detroit...

Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:37 am

Reference to La Shish rest. IIRC, they had a store in the Motor City Casino when I still lived in Dearborn (4+ yrs ago) and rumor was that the casino broomed them right directly after investigations of "bad things" started. My wife and I enjoyed their foodstuffs many
times prior, there and in their other restaurants .

Moving right along, why is it that nobody here on the famous A.net has the brassies to address the real reasons why Detroit has taken a dumper? Are "we" too afraid of offending "those" people?

Don't get your shorts twisted before you type a dumby reply . Think.

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WarRI1
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RE: The Fate Of Detroit...

Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:15 am



Quoting Cptkrell (Reply 10):
Moving right along, why is it that nobody here on the famous A.net has the brassies to address the real reasons why Detroit has taken a dumper? Are "we" too afraid of offending "those" people?

Don't get your shorts twisted before you type a dumby reply . Think.

I think there has been enough offending from both sides on the GM thread, union and-non-union, that is probably why this has been non-offending so far. I can start if you want me to.  Smile
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diamond
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RE: The Fate Of Detroit...

Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:21 am

There have been several threads on this topic, including an active one started 4 days ago. Please continue this discussion there:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ms/non_aviation/read.main/2008716/
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