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HAWK21M
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How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:31 pm

With India being struck by terror every 20-30 days.The citizens are asking the question.How can India win its war on terror.
Some answers were:-
1.Improve Intelligence collection.
2.Attack the Terror camps accross the border.
3.Fight a war.
4.Get Countries sponsoring terror to come in line & cooperate.

Any suggestions,currently point 1&2 seem the best option. #2 will lead to #3 & #4 has never worked.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
TAZA
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:52 pm

I don't believe the "War On Terror" can or will be won by anyone. There are simply too many
religious fanatics, political grievances, cultural differences, geopolitical shades, income
levels etc. that contribute to the creation of individual or group dissatisfaction that can and
will give rise to outbursts of violence.
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Dougloid
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:11 pm

MEL, today we're all Indians and our hearts and our sympathies go out to your folks.

I think that if you've been the victims-I hate that word, by the way, it says weakness-of a large scale terrorist attack as India has on numerous occasions in the past few years, what it communicates is that no matter what our political and cultural differences, there is a commonality of interest that I am quite sure the next administration is taking quite seriously.

There's a theme here in the attacks that we've seen over the years that experience suggests
is hard to deny the existence of. Good intel, massive firepower when it's warranted, and technological advantage may not convince the mujahideen to lay down their arms and beat their swords into plowshares, but it can damn sure let them know that the cost of their delusion is going to be very high, indeed.

You folks have a particular problem with the fellows across the border and that is that they've got the bomb.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:04 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Thread starter):
2 seem the best option

-
not really, as you can be sure that there are various bases in question. Just to attack one of the bases will give more relative strength to the others. Beside the point that I am a bit surprised how easily such terrorists apparently can move deeply into and move out of your gigantic country.
-
And, before considering "outside" bases, it is to be investigated whether there are bases in close proximity to big cities like Mumbai, Delhi, Bangalore, Chennai/Madras etc.
-
It may also be necessary to re-check whether the naval controls done by coastguard and navy are up to present-day requirements.
 
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Moose135
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:14 pm



Quoting TAZA (Reply 1):
I don't believe the "War On Terror" can or will be won by anyone. There are simply too many religious fanatics, political grievances, cultural differences, geopolitical shades, income levels etc. that contribute to the creation of individual or group dissatisfaction that can and will give rise to outbursts of violence.

 checkmark 
You hear our leaders talk about the "War on Terror" as if "Terror" is an enemy that can be defeated. Terrorism is a weapon used by different groups in an attempt to gain control, oppose someone else who is in control, and make their presence know. We can no sooner win a "War on Terror" than we could win a "War on Laser-Guided-Bombs".

That said, my thoughts and prayers are with those effected by this tragedy.
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:48 pm

Sorry to hear about and read about the things in India. My thoughts and prayers go out to all there.

How can India win?

Well you cant. No country can win a "War On Terror". All you can do is have better inteligence maybe and try to be more active on getting into some of these camps set up in your own country as well as neighbors. The challenge, the neighbors wanting to work together.
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imiakhtar
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:12 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Thread starter):
How can India win its war on terror.

In my honest opinion Mel, none of the points you posted will result in victory. I believe that in order to root out the problem, you need to go to the heart of the issue that is Kashmir. Only once this issue has been solved ( UN plebiscite) can you start to weed out the extremists.

In a strange sense, Pakistan is facing very similar dilemma, how does it crush the Taliban Teletubbies in the NWFP? I think we'll both agree, that the policy of collective punishment pursued by the Pak govt, and ISAF are doing more harm than good. For every Loony Tune they wipe out, another dozen cartoon characters takes it's place.

It's a funny world we live in.

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HAWK21M
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:51 am



Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 6):
I believe that in order to root out the problem, you need to go to the heart of the issue that is Kashmir.

the Kashmir issue is a main reason.True.Its a Minority community state in India that has other Majority community states,which boosts India as a Democracy.Hence India needs Kashmir.
As for Pakistan,If they give up all of kashmir to India,the purpose of the state of pakistan based on religon is defeated.
The solution lies in a porus border & a unified Kashmir.

On the issue of Defeating terror......As long as countries in the world sponsor terror,through training,funds,weapons & support....there will never be peace.

The public anger is high currently.....I guess the Congress led UPA Government will not win the next elections, this will bring back the NDA in to power.

regds
MEL
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:13 am

So the belief is that this was purely a foreign job? It is much easier to blame out-siders than confront any home grown problems. Thats one reason why the war on terror is so hard to fight, the enemy does not care what political point its targets want to convey to the public, that just makes their job easier.

India will not attack Pakistan if they decide that they are responsible, based on initial news reports about the boat being from Pakistan, being so obvious would be a declaration of war, thankfully, later reports say the boat in question was not involved. India developed nukes for China and Pakistan, Pakistan developed its nukes for India, so stalemate on that front.

If Kashmir is the root cause of the problem it will remain so for the foreseable future, India claims the territory, Pakistan also, and no one is going to allow the residents any say in what happens, so the resentment and anger will grow. Putting in place a local spy network and ruthlessly prosecuting / assinating militants to break up future major attacks is a viable option, another is to attempt appeasement which if Kashmir is the cause, will mean some form of governance, which puts us back to square one.

Militants today beilive in getting their own way, whether through violence or negotiations, its their way or not at all, and they are usually prepared to die for their conviction, civilized society has not yet come to grips with this new reality.
 
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:18 am



Quoting TAZA (Reply 1):
I don't believe the "War On Terror" can or will be won by anyone.

Via genocide it can. But I don't think anyone in power in the developed world is loony enough to do that.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:52 am



Quoting Par13del (Reply 8):
India will not attack Pakistan if they decide that they are responsible

The problem is not the Government of Pakistan or its common people But rather a few rogue elements in their Intelligence/Army who still want to create these tensions for their own motives.
The Pak Govt seems willing to assist,but will the more powerfull army allow them.Unlike a strong Democracy of India,Pak Army has more control there than the Civilian Government.
There has to be a policy review in that state towards India.only then will things improve.

Remember the Cold war of the eighties.

regds
MEL
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:14 am

You don't fight a war on terror. You treat it like organized crime and use intelligence and appropriate action to stop it.
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:20 am



Quoting Par13del (Reply 8):
So the belief is that this was purely a foreign job? It is much easier to blame out-siders than confront any home grown problems.

Nothing is confirmed and it is dangerous to have a guessing game until the FACTS are known.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 11):
You don't fight a war on terror. You treat it like organized crime and use intelligence and appropriate action to stop it.

Very true.

The solution is between the Indian and Pakistani governments so they should both smell the coffee and work together.
 
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OA260
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:12 am

2nd Cricket Test Series moved to Chennai ( Madras ).


SITUATION UPDATE
Police: 24 dead bodies found at Oberoi
Trident completely clear of terrorists: Report
PM to talk to Zardari about attacks
At Trident: Foreigners evacuated
NSG suffered casualties in the operations
http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/default.aspx
 
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:14 am

How to stop well educated, clean shaved, determined, trained mercyless youngsters without a criminal record from commiting terror attacks in a society were communication and seemless transport and globalization is a reality..



Beats me..
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:28 pm



Quoting Keesje (Reply 14):
How to stop well educated, clean shaved, determined, trained mercyless youngsters without a criminal record from commiting terror attacks in a society were communication and seemless transport and globalization is a reality..

Simple, unless they are mentally insane identify what their grievence is and deal with it. Dealing with it is the problem, society tends to marginalize persons who do not have popular complaints, even ignore them completely. In open societies, we believe that we cater by allowing them a voice by giving them the means and options to voice their concerns, that works for a time but when they realize that we are only paying lip service, then more action is done.

These clean shaven young people are a means to and end by someone else, they are too young to know personally of the struggles before their time, so certainely they are the sword for someone in the back, I do not know but will not be shocked if the root of the attack is by some group taking revenge for some previous wrong or perceived wrong, if the warning signs were seen and ignored, that failure is one that our society can at least make better attempts at fixing, remember the anonymous prayer found in the church, even the dispossed should be listened to, they have something to say.
 
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:37 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 7):
On the issue of Defeating terror......As long as countries in the world sponsor terror,through training,funds,weapons & support....there will never be peace.

Many Indian bloggers have commented angrily since yesterday that it is impossible to improve intelligence nationwide until there is a serious political effort to reduce massive bureaucracy and police corruption. Some Indian coworkers of mine have said the buying of positions and examination waivers for police in Mumbai is well-known among the city's residents, and some have sarcastically mentioned that even if arms shipments to militant groups were coming into the city, as long as cops were being paid under the table they'd do nothing about it.

In that kind of environment, limited success is the most that can be expected. The three times I've traveled in India I've noticed bureaucratic hurdles in even the most mundane corners of daily life - for a sophisticated and coordinated day-to-day operation like gathering and dissemination of intelligence - that cannot be the case. Certainly India is full of examples of capable people coordinating in diverse and complex activities every day - the urban railways and meal delivery networks are good examples. It's that brand of fortitude that must be employed in the intelligence sector to have any kind of success against terror.

The only question is - is the current or next government up to the task??
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:04 pm

1. Improve intelligence collection
2. Better coordination between the police, other law enforcement agencies, and the military.
3. Accept that India do have it's own internal militant Islam problem.
4. Deal with #3, keep blaming Pakistan isn't a solution (regardless of whether Pakistan has a hand in it or not)
5. Force cooperate with Pakistan with regards to cross-border terrorism... this again, needs more than just pointing the finger at Pakistan. The Pakistan civilian government needs help..

Cross border infiltration / interdiction to the terror camps are likely to be used as an excuse for Pakistan's extremists to recruit more militants.

The Kashmir issue seems to be used as an excuse by the Pakistan extremists when it comes to India... what needs to be more exposed is that the interests of Pakistan's extremists over Kashmir isn't exactly what the Kashmiris want... We never hear what the Kashmiri want, always what India or what Pakistan wants...

One method of winning against the extreme elements within the Pak military is to actually, continue the development of further relationships with Pakistan's civilian government, and further developing business and economic ties. The military of Pakistan cannot go on the front of government at least for another few years, and it is within the vested interest of those willing to retain power to continue to make the civilian government look helpless by indirectly supporting extremists and sponsoring actions to destabilize relationships with India, and also, undermine the economy. Improverishment and hopelessness, are nice motivators to feed extremism, to which the Army can always "play the Hero."




Btw, is that a pic of a suspect or an undercover police/anti-terrorist squad?

If a member of the general public can grab a clean photo like that... all I can say is, OMG... the whole attack's a show to make the Indian law enforcement and military look stupid... (and they seem to have somewhat succeeded in that).

The way the police handled the crowd at the siege locations and at the aftermath of shootings and explosion... in this last few days, is just utterly ridiculous...

I think huge reform in the police is called for too?
And the military and police needs to learn a few PR skills too... so the rest of the world can welcome them to the new age of "security threats"...

Mandala499
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:57 pm

Lots of Anger among the Citizens.....Over the attack........
Congrats to the NSG/Army/Police for a fantastic job......keep the politicians away.

Amazing support for the commandos pre & post mission,amazing respect for a Job done.
glad to not notice any politicians around.

regds
MEL
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:29 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 7):
the Kashmir issue is a main reason

-
But is the Kashmire issue the point in the attack of the past two days really ?

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 7):
Hence India needs Kashmir.

-
Really. Would India not be the same with or without Kashmir ? For instance if Kashmir with both sectors re-united became independent ?
 
Beaucaire
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:50 pm

While Kashmir is certainly a sticking point between India and Pakistan that has to be dealt with politically,the war against terror in India is not tied to the Kashmir issue alone.
India is a meting-pot of cultures and religions- fascinating but dangerous.
Dangerous because of the religious aspect that drives people to react over-emotionally and not in-line with their religious masters philosophy.
Terrorists -be they Islamic or Hindu motivated,will never be afraid because of improved law-enforcement or more security.They have in many cases suicidal attitudes which makes them immune towards reason and logic.
The immediate fight against terror in India ( and Pakistan as well..) will have to start with much better co-ordinated intelligence among both countries-if you like it or not !
You have to come to grips with Islamabad and vise-versa.War is no option !

There can be no stand-alone fight from India against his enemies-it's an international team-effort and India has to become a quality puzzle in that picture -today Indian Intelligenc is not a quality puzzle!
Weather the actual attackers have Al Qaida liks or support or not is not really important,since there are so many individual cells and splitter groups who might have loose ideological ties to Bin Laden- that you cant really draw a line.

What I saw on TV regarding the intervention of the Indian police and special forces was a mixed picture of determination ,bad equipment,sacrifice but also lack of strategy ( too many police-men died-so they were sent into a combat zone unprotected or unprepared..)
So there is a tremendous job to better train police-forces and improve on equipment.

In todays "Der Spiegel" web-site ther is an article precisely dealing with that dilemma-bottom line is the politicians have lost years by sitting idle and not implementing guidlines,rules and better institutions capble to deal with theissue.
To boil it down to to words-no balls..
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,593285,00.html



[Edited 2008-11-28 09:57:47]
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OA260
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:59 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 20):
While Kashmir is certainly a sticking point between India and Pakistan that has to be dealt with politically,the war against terror in India is not tied to the Kashmir issue alone.



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 20):
The immediate fight against terror in India ( and Pakistan as well..) will have to start with much better co-ordinated intelligence among both countries-if you like it or not !
You have to come to grips with Islamabad and vise-versa.War is no option !

Very good points and totally true. India and Pakistan will have to both grow up and cut the crap that has gone on for the last number of years. They need to stand shoulder to shoulder and stop blaming eachother. I really dont have too much optimism but maybe this might focus their minds.

I think the outside world will also be putting pressure on both parties.
 
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:26 pm

Mel...

Actually I think sitting, talking, negotiating (and mooting... that favourite expression to describle our political class) have all been proven pretty futile again and again. It sounds very proper and reasonable... but then again we are not dealing with reasonable people.

Intelligence gathering is most essential but again a pipe-dream for our highly bureaucratic, hierarchic and mostly self centered babus who run these establishments. Neither are these guys well paid or well trained or motivated to produce a quality response to the kind of challenges that our enemies pose.

I am one of those who has totally and completely lost faith in our Government (irrespective of which political party comes to power) to provide us with even the most elementary protection.

My own view is that some sort of a vigilante movement could/should/will develop. Just as you could trace the funding for Islamic terrorism coming from folks who may be sympathizers (but not actual terrorists), so too could funds be generated from wealthy Indians (in India and abroad) who are fed up with their country being taken apart at will by terrorists. It is far easier for such a movement, motivated as it would be, to follow highly unconventional intelligence gathering methods, generate funds for sophisticated trainings and not be encumbered by political niceties that would keep our otherwise highly trained armed forces from kicking ass !!! (eg. the hijacked ship with Indian crew in Somalia which we refused to rescue citing silly diplomatic excuses).

This movement I reiterate should not be relgiously affiliated like the so called nationalistic groups - the lathi wielding jokers in RSS or the bullies in Bajrang Dal, MNS, Shiv Sena. This movement should with equal vehemence bring street justice to a Raj Thackeray as it would a Dawood Ibrahim. It must see an equal enemy in Syed Shahabuddin as it does in Raja Bhaiya. It must aim to take out any hatemonger - Hindu or Muslim with as much fervour as it would target a Tiger Memon or a Maulana Masood Azhar. It must have the intelligence support and training/backing (and where possible the carte-blanche) necessary to go into places beyond Indian borders to carry out missions like the ones that the KGB or the CIA or the Mossad specialized(s) in.

If the promise of 72 virgins waiting for them in Paradise can convert those clean shaven, upmarket, educated young men to suicidal mass murderers, I am extremely certain that the promise of patriotism will draw even greater numbers of young Indians to place their lives on the order to neutralize those who aim to destabilize our country.

I'll wager on something like this coming up in the coming years...

rgds//Vimanav
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:43 pm

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HAWK21M
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:18 am



Quoting Vimanav (Reply 22):
am extremely certain that the promise of patriotism will draw even greater numbers of young Indians to place their lives on the order to neutralize those who aim to destabilize our country.

Watching the emotions & support the NSG commandos got & the anger amongst citizens....there will def be youngsters comming forward & wanting an end to this proxy war,by attacking the culprits in their den.

regds
MEL
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:36 am



Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 6):
I believe that in order to root out the problem, you need to go to the heart of the issue that is Kashmir. Only once this issue has been solved ( UN plebiscite) can you start to weed out the extremists.

Are you aware what the terms of the UN resolution are ? It *requires* Pakistan to withdraw to status quo ante. It then *obliges* India to conduct a plebiscite. In other words Pakistan has to withdraw from Gilgit, Baltistan and Pakistan-occupied (aka 'Azad') Kashmir and return them to Indian control. It then *suggests* that India conduct a resolution over all these areas, including above mentioned ones. As a consequence India will keep Kashmir in perpetuity simply because Pakistan will never willingly let go of the bits it holds.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:43 am

NSG squads for all states with a central coordination.
Revamp the Mumbai cops with military training...only fit persons to continue,the rest can be given other duties.
Get the coastal/border areas locals involved,listen if they report something abnormal.

regds
MEL
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GDB
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:13 pm

Firstly, commiseration's to all the victims of this insane, pointless slaughter.

I agree with Hawk that no way did the Pakistani government have a hand in this, they've nothing to gain and everything to lose and are, as they point out, fighting a bloody war on terror of their own.
But, despite the new government there, they have been for long periods, maybe essentially still are, an army with a state rather than a state with an army.
(Include intel agencies under the umbrella of 'army').

While it is almost certain that Pakistani nationals and groups were heavily involved in this atrocity, going for military action against the Pakistani state would have been like the RAF bombing 'targets' in the Republic Or Ireland at the height of the IRA terror.

For India, it should perhaps end the virtual taboo in government about admitting that they have their very own Islamist terrorists, individuals and groups.
No way could this attack happen happen with the support of people involved with such groups embedded in the city and India as a whole.
This was too well planned, too big, for a bunch landing from the sea find some targets and hope they succeed in hitting some or all of them.

I've seen pics from this attack, showing Indian policemen armed with old Enfield rifles, familiar with British and Commonwealth troops from before WW1 to the 1950's.
If these guys were to be the first to confront terrorists armed with automatic weapons and lots of ammo, they deserve better.

So perhaps a restructuring of local police, streamlined command, better equipment.
Maintaining AF Airlines (Argentina)">SF forces on quick reaction alert, not easy in such a vast nation, but assume that the major cities are prime targets.
Buying modern weapons such as rifles is not expensive, when you consider other big ticket items the Indian forces are buying

But this would always be a very tough call to counter, it's India's Sept 11th, not (thankfully) the same death toll, but it took the mode of previous terror attacks and greatly expanded the size and scope of them.
(Likewise, the 'prototype' of Sept 11th was in Dec 1994, when Islamists tried to fly a single hijacked AF Airbus to crash on Paris).

Which brings us to the point mentioned before by others, better, much better, intel.
This was an attack that required a lot of people, a lot of preparation a lot of logistics, yet it was totally off the radar of both Indian and international intel agencies.
(The aforementioned AF hijack was foiled because the French DGSE had a source inside the terror group concerned, once he could get to inform the French what the plan was, the attack was doomed to fail. Remember too, there was no source in or near those planning Sept 11th).

Good luck to India in investigating and hopefully countering groups prepared to do such things.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 5:57 pm

Very valid points GDB....especially about the cops & their equipment.
Intelligence upgrade is the key out here.

Currently the citizens are calling for a strong action.........

regds
MEL
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 5:58 pm

Very valid points GDB....especially about the cops & their equipment.
Intelligence upgrade is the key out here.

Currently the citizens are calling for a strong action.........

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:03 pm

Securtiy improvements are obvious , but the main effort has to be to continue growing there strong economy. Strength and stability come when your citezens are making money , and improving there lives. A nation will always have enemies , but if the nation is strong and its people are well off they will remain strong.

The people of India must move forward without fear, without hesitation . The attack was carried out by those in this world who do not understand the wellness of society . They demand submission to there god and demand that all people are in fear of their vengence. The worlds democracies are the arch enemy of these killers ... and India may be the shining star in this group of nations. The democracies must lead the world to freedom and prosperity for all citezens ... it is the only true weapon against these dark ideals.
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:07 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 29):
Currently the citizens are calling for a strong action.........

So I have heard on TV with Indians shouting ''Death to Pakistan'' !! I can understand peoples anger but people really need to direct their anger at the terrorists and not at the wrong people. The Indian PM should go on national TV and state this also.
 
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:10 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 28):
Currently the citizens are calling for a strong action.........

-
well, this admittedly would be the reaction of ALL people in the world ! The problem for your federal government rather is to define and find out WHAT "strong action" really can be done ! Whatever "action" it must make sense, in spite of public rage. I don't envy those in charge in Delhi, really NOT !
 
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:18 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 30):
The democracies must lead the world to freedom and prosperity for all citezens ... it is the only true weapon against these dark ideals



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 31):
I can understand peoples anger but people really need to direct their anger at the terrorists and not at the wrong people

When you have a Government in a Neighbour country that says Nothing wrong is happening.Ask for proof,when proof is provided,deny it,say that there are no training camps,no training carried out by certain rogue elements.How can such a Government be trusted to hand over the guilty for punishment.

This time although the zardari government seems keen.Maybe India would give them an opportunity to dismantle the hate mechanism against INDIA & prove themselves.....But will the people allow them this chance.They have had enough of this regular bleeding.

Its the poor & common citizens that are suffering.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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OA260
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:35 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 33):
This time although the zardari government seems keen

They are more than ''keen'' with due respect. They have given the highest condemnation at every point and level.

Just watching a British Women on Sky News now and she says that pointing the finger at Pakistan so early was wrong and just flamed the issue. Also India is in denial that there is a home grown Indian Islamic movement.

Lets wait until all the facts are known before blaming countries and people.

---------------------------

If I were India and Pakistan now I would be setting up a cross border body to try to combat these things. I think that India needs to show leadership and make sure the politicans get the job done and dont argue amongst eachtother.
 
N867DA
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:45 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 33):
This time although the zardari government seems keen

It's not always the government at fault. Look at this situation. There is probably no government involvement but you can be very sure that at least some of the people have come from Pakistan. That's almost a given in so many attacks around the world. Some of the anger toward these exceptional Pakistanis rushes (often undeservedly) to Islamabad.
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:55 pm

The Sponsors/planners/plotters of this act need to be restrained & brought to justice.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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OA260
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:58 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 36):
The Sponsors/planners/plotters of this act need to be restrained & brought to justice.

Exactly totally agree so lets get all the facts and not have knee jerk reactions or harsh statements. People need to calm down and be rational.
 
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:01 pm



Quoting N867DA (Reply 35):
some of the people have come from Pakistan

-
"some of" ? and where from the others ? London ? --- ... Is India to attack the U.K. in such a case ? No, I hope, rational considerations will keep the upper hand
 
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:26 pm



Quoting Bill142 (Reply 9):
Via genocide it can.

But that is taking into count that the people doing the genocide are "right". Genocide has yet to solve anything.

The "war on terror" will never be won. Until you have unity across the board, it will be just managed. There are too many variables to make it a "win".

Never get into a fight with a crazy person, because, from a distance, you can't tell who is whom.
You can't cure stupid
 
BarfBag
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:30 pm

I see zero benefit in coordinating with the Paki authorities. There is no way Zardari can take on their powerful Islamist-driven military intelligence without getting himself killed like his wife was recently.

Unlike in India, where all intelligence forces are under firm political control (even a little too politicized, which affects their functioning), that is not the case in Pakistan - the ISI/MI are a law unto themselves, because the single most powerful entity in their country is the Army. Every single political administration is either subservient or adjunct to them.

India must take on the task of methodically liquidating those responsible, on its own. No meaningful cooperation is possible - just as the US has been consistently incapable of engaging them in their Afghanistan ops, to the point that they went it alone and entered Paki territory on their own when required.
 
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:08 pm



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 40):
I see zero benefit in coordinating with the Paki authorities

Ok so you then undermine the Pakistani government and extremists take over the whole country and get their hands on the nuclear button and its bad news for India .

I think there is every reason to forge closer ties with the Pakistani government. An unstable Pakistan means an unstable India. When will both countries learn that they have more to gain from co operation than division.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:11 pm



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 40):
I see zero benefit in coordinating with the Paki authorities

Exactly.we have seen that in the past numerous times.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 40):
India must take on the task of methodically liquidating those responsible, on its own.

lets see if Zardari hands over the chief of LeT to India if they are found responsible.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
N867DA
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:33 pm



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 41):
I think there is every reason to forge closer ties with the Pakistani government. An unstable Pakistan means an unstable India. When will both countries learn that they have more to gain from co operation than division.

For a very long time Pakistan kept (keeps may be the proper tense here) alternating between military dictatorships and democracy. Just who do you talk to? I agree with the underlying concept: you can talk to them and work out problems with much less strife. Forging "close ties" should be done when it seems that there is a viable government to talk to.

India loses incredibly if Pakistan is unstable (the past three days have proved that), but Pakistan stands to lose very little if parts of India are unstable. If anything, it'll just be another failed state in the region. Zardari seems better than many others, but patience only goes so far, and even Zardari seems under immense pressure from other Pakistani leaders to watch what he says about India-related issues. The man called Kashmiri terrorists and upset the opposition in Pakistan (and some nuts in India). He may have the best intentions, but look at where he is coming from!
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
BarfBag
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:15 am



Quoting Oa260 (Reply 41):
Ok so you then undermine the Pakistani government and extremists take over the whole country and get their hands on the nuclear button and its bad news for India .

Speaking to an entity that is incapable of achieving anything contributes nothing. Zardari is a lame duck. He's not just an outlier but a Baloch - the ISI/MI will never trust him nor let him drive anything. The last person who attempted peace overtures - Nawaz Sharif - was overthrown and exiled, despite being a bonafide Punjabi. Zardari isn't going to last long - he'll be dead or overthrown before long. It's of no consequence whose hand is on the nuclear button as long as a powerful unaccountable military/intelligence entity runs their show.

Zardari is already essentially a dead man walking in his own country, thanks to his statements to the effect that Pakistan is willing to put aside its demand for Kashmir permanently, in addition to the nuclear no first use statement. While it sounds nice, he essentially has no control over accomplishing either. He'll sign his own death warrant if he tries. Benazir said similar things in the months preceding her gory killing.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:13 am

Feelers are India is giving an opportunity for Pakistan to dismantle the terror mechanism & hand over the culprits responsible......There is an armed forces buildup at the borders too.The Coast line is being strengthened too.

Comming Weeks will determine things.

Looks like things can get very hot soon.

The US/UK/Israel have assured all support to strengthen the Fight against terror.India should take tips from them.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Beaucaire
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:16 am

The rethoric between Pakistan and India is getting somewhat harsher- PAK threatening to re-deploy up to 1 M troops from the Afghan border towards the Indian Border.
That would inevitably open a big hole for the Pashtun tribes in the North-West tribal territories .
It is absolutely essential to keep his head clean of political agressive tones on both sides.
Terrorists would win if India and Pakistan would declare any open armed hostilities.In my opinion the United States and Europe will have to put pressure on Pakistan to re-consider a troop-re-deployment and rather assist in crashing the terrorist-training camps within PAK boundaries.
There is an urgent need to de-escalate !
http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-36782020081129

[Edited 2008-11-29 23:23:38]
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:21 am



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 46):
The rethoric between Pakistan and India is getting somewhat harsher- PAK treatening to re-deploy up to 1 M troops from the Afghan border towards the Indian Border.

Nice threat to induce the US fear.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 46):
In my opinion the United States and Europe will have to put pressure on Pakistan to re-consider a troop-re-deployment and rather assist in crashing the terrorist-training camps within PAK boundaries.

All Pak needs to do is shown the World that the terror mechanism is dismantled & Peace will return.

regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
BarfBag
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:42 am



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 46):
The rethoric between Pakistan and India is getting somewhat harsher- PAK threatening to re-deploy up to 1 M troops from the Afghan border towards the Indian Border.

Actually, the rhetoric so far has been one sided. There's been absolutely no mention of any Indian troop buildup, and quite likely there will be none. Besides, it seems they think we can only act from the east. In reality, we can act from Afghanistan / Tajikistan as well. Recall the Indian embassy bombing in Afghanistan months ago - we have a significant intelligence and covert ops presence there.

Let them move their troops and personnel around - it is a valuable opportunity for us to collect intelligence. India will quite likely respond by activating humint assets within and around Pakistan, to collect information, because those responsible, particularly the Lashkar-e-Toiba and intelligence forces, will now be quickly busy communicating their next actions right now. It's far easier to collect information when things are in motion than when nothing is happening, so they are just making things easier for us.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Can India Win Its War On Terror

Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:06 am



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 48):
There's been absolutely no mention of any Indian troop buildup, and quite likely there will be none.

Troop build up at border areas is being considered.But not like after the parliament attack.This seems more of a defensive posture.
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MEL
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