geekydude
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Caution: US Made Toys Contain Lead Too!

Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:26 pm

Here is a piece I found on cnn.com:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/03/news...s/index.htm?postversion=2008120314

"Researchers for the Michigan-based Ecology Center tested more than 1,500 popular toys for lead, cadmium, arsenic, PVC and other harmful chemicals. They said they found that one-third of the toys contain "medium" or "high" levels of chemicals of concern."

"The study does not associate country of origin with the presence of toxic chemicals. According to the release, 21% of toys from China and 16% of toys from all other countries had detectable levels of lead.

Of the 17 toys made in the United States that were tested, 35% had detectable levels of lead. A U.S.-made Halloween pumpkin pin had 190,943 ppm of lead. "

Maybe it's time to do away with toys all together this year given the bad shape of the economy and the safety of those toys.
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Caution: US Made Toys Contain Lead Too!

Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:01 pm



Quoting Geekydude (Thread starter):
"The study does not associate country of origin with the presence of toxic chemicals. According to the release, 21% of toys from China and 16% of toys from all other countries had detectable levels of lead.

Ok, so it was detectable. I bet it was 1 part in 1 gigabillionbajillion  Yeah sure

Quoting Geekydude (Thread starter):

Maybe it's time to do away with toys all together this year given the bad shape of the economy and the safety of those toys.

Oh please. Another case of the media blowing things out of proportion.

You can find any amount of those "harmful and deadly" chemicals in anything anywhere.

Throughout my flying carrier I've had well over a gallon of leaded fuel spilled over myself, and lots of other "dangerous substances" throughout my life. And I'm still here in good health to rant about it.

Now, if you eat a pound of lead for breakfast every day, that's gonna kill you.
 
geekydude
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RE: Caution: US Made Toys Contain Lead Too!

Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:31 pm



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 1):
Ok, so it was detectable. I bet it was 1 part in 1 gigabillionbajillion

"A U.S.-made Halloween pumpkin pin had 190,943 ppm of lead. " That's how many percent?

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 1):
Oh please. Another case of the media blowing things out of proportion.

That's CNN quoting a research report. There's nothing subjective there.

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 1):
Throughout my flying carrier I've had well over a gallon of leaded fuel spilled over myself, and lots of other "dangerous substances" throughout my life. And I'm still here in good health to rant about it.

But you would not let your childern play with 100LL aviation fuel, would you?
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Caution: US Made Toys Contain Lead Too!

Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:47 pm



Quoting Geekydude (Reply 2):
But you would not let your childern play with 100LL aviation fuel, would you?

I'd let them handle it. "Playing" with it is different.
 
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akiss20
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RE: Caution: US Made Toys Contain Lead Too!

Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:17 am



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 3):
Quoting Geekydude (Reply 2):
But you would not let your childern play with 100LL aviation fuel, would you?

I'd let them handle it. "Playing" with it is different.

Would you let them stick it in their mouth? Fly2HMO's analogy is not valid here in that he had the experience/knowledge that these substances were dangerous, and as such, did not drink/eat them. The problem with leaded toys is that they are marketed to well, inexperienced users (aka babies/tots). Try keeping a toy out of a 5 year old's mouth.
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geekydude
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RE: Caution: US Made Toys Contain Lead Too!

Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:42 pm



Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 4):
Would you let them stick it in their mouth? Fly2HMO's analogy is not valid here in that he had the experience/knowledge that these substances were dangerous, and as such, did not drink/eat them. The problem with leaded toys is that they are marketed to well, inexperienced users (aka babies/tots). Try keeping a toy out of a 5 year old's mouth.

Agreed. The problem with toys really lies the toy companies' lack of will to rein in with their contractors. If you market the toy under your name, then you have an obligation to make sure they're safe regardless who make them and where they're made. Simply shifing the blame onto contractors and subcontractors does not absolve toy companies' culpability.
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Dougloid
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RE: Caution: US Made Toys Contain Lead Too!

Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:47 am



Quoting Geekydude (Reply 5):
Agreed. The problem with toys really lies the toy companies' lack of will to rein in with their contractors. If you market the toy under your name, then you have an obligation to make sure they're safe regardless who make them and where they're made. Simply shifing the blame onto contractors and subcontractors does not absolve toy companies' culpability.

I think you're putting the cart before the hoss, Mr. Dude. Placing the burden of compliance on the party who is paying for the entire exercise is a shady business.

It is the obligation of the contractor to comply with the terms of the contract. In exchange they get paid. If the contractors aren't going to do what they're obliged to and what they've agreed to, tell me why anyone would patronize them? That's what's called breach of contract.

Let me give you an example. Say you run a diner. I walk in, sit down at the counter, lay a ten dollar bill down and say "I'll have the Denver omelette, side of hash browns, wheat toast, no butter, and black coffee." Bring me that, and the Hamilton's yours.

Ten minutes later you bring me a dead raccoon that expired in the road in front of the place.

By your standard, I'm to blame because of your noncompliance.

Please pass this along to the guy who puts those "QC Passed 32" stickers all over stuff that doesn't work around here.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
geekydude
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RE: Caution: US Made Toys Contain Lead Too!

Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:17 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 6):

Let me give you an example. Say you run a diner. I walk in, sit down at the counter, lay a ten dollar bill down and say "I'll have the Denver omelette, side of hash browns, wheat toast, no butter, and black coffee." Bring me that, and the Hamilton's yours.

Ten minutes later you bring me a dead raccoon that expired in the road in front of the place.

By your standard, I'm to blame because of your noncompliance.

Your analogy is flawed. Btw you and the diner, it's diner who's at fault. But if you run a catering business, and you indiscriminately pass along whatever the diner gives you, the dead raccoon in your case, to those school children in the hope to make a quick buck due to the restaurant owner's claim of low cost, then you can't clear yourself of guilt simply by saying it's entirely the diner's fault and that you bear zero responsibility. At the end of day, it's you that're marketing the product, under your brand name, to those school children. If the children get harmed, you are inexorable. You can sue the diner however you want. But btw you and the school children, you can't escape the accountability.
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Dougloid
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RE: Caution: US Made Toys Contain Lead Too!

Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:56 pm



Quoting Geekydude (Reply 7):
At the end of day, it's you that're marketing the product, under your brand name, to those school children. If the children get harmed, you are inexorable. You can sue the diner however you want. But btw you and the school children, you can't escape the accountability.

You're entirely correct that the person at the end of the chain bears liability but you seem to be suggesting that that is the only person who's responsible in the supply chain and I disagree with that. The primary responsibility of the subcontractor is to perform to the contract and not to cheat.

In a perfect world they'd do their jobs and everyone would make money and be happy.

the subtext here is that the vast majority of toys sold here in the US and in Europe come from China. Noncompliance with contract requirements directly threatens the viability of that business relationship. What efforts are underway to address the issue there?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
geekydude
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RE: Caution: US Made Toys Contain Lead Too!

Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:03 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 8):
the subtext here is that the vast majority of toys sold here in the US and in Europe come from China. Noncompliance with contract requirements directly threatens the viability of that business relationship. What efforts are underway to address the issue there?

I am not in charge of, nor am I familiar with, toy manufacturing and supply chaining. But it's important that we realize that toy companies should make every attempt seeking out reliable suppliers and contractors, those that are ISO certified. It's just common sense. In a place where free market capitalism is still in the wild wild west stage, those toy companies should be and should have been even more cautious. There are reputable contractors and manufactures out there, but sometimes the toy companies have lost sense of reality and pursued the route of lowest cost with shady producers at the detriment of quality and safety. You get what you pay for, and that applies everywhere, in China as well.



This CNN article is simply showing that in terms of toys, people should exercise caution regardless their countries of origin. The sample statistics have shown that US made toys suffer just the same quality and safety problems as those produced overseas, if not worse (the numbers shown here are actually suggesting worse). That's an indication of an industry wide problem, not just those contractors in a particular geographic region.
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Dougloid
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RE: Caution: US Made Toys Contain Lead Too!

Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:02 pm



Quoting Geekydude (Reply 9):
There are reputable contractors and manufactures out there, but sometimes the toy companies have lost sense of reality and pursued the route of lowest cost with shady producers at the detriment of quality and safety. You get what you pay for, and that applies everywhere, in China as well.

I tend to agree with you particularly with ISO certification. You DO get what you pay for.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
asuflyer05
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RE: Caution: US Made Toys Contain Lead Too!

Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:07 am

OMG AAAAAHHHH we're all going to die of lead poisoning!!!!111one!!!1!!

The media needs to get a life.

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