dxing
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Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:51 pm

As some of us on the conservative side predicted well before the election, no way was a President Obama going to pull the troops out of Iraq willy nilly or even in 16 months and that as soon as he was elected that tune would change. It has. Also good to see that a soon to be PE Obama is now realizing that people who make over 250K a year provide a lot of jobs in this country and pissing them off is not the way to go about fixing a recession.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081207/pl_politico/16279

"In the wide-ranging appearance, Obama once again gave strong indications that he’s backing off his stance on two key campaign pledges – whether to repeal President George W. Bush’s tax cuts for the rich, and his call for bringing U.S. combat troops home from Iraq in 16 months. On a lighter note, he sketched a vision of an Obama White House alive with cultural and musical events, saying he hoped to include children from local Washington, D.C., schools."

On a lighter not considering that last line, I wonder if he'll invite the infamous Obamabots?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTBq_ybkBmI&feature=related

On a serious note the stage is being set for a big clash between liberals with this line from the interview.

"He told Brokaw that decisions based on where to focus infrastructure improvements would be based on merit, and “not in the old, traditional politics-first way.”

In an unambiguous brush-back to his former colleagues Obama said, “You know, the days of just pork coming out of Congress as a strategy, those days are over.”


I'm as confident that at their first face to face meeting after the inauguration that Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Reid will set him straight on that matter as I was about his dropping his pledge to immediately remove the troops from Iraq.
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STT757
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:16 pm

He's not going to repeal the Bush Tax cuts, he's simply going to let them expire in 2011. As for Iraq he's not going to bring all the troops home in 16 months but look for about half of the Brigade Combat teams to be withdrawn in the next 16 months. Also as per the new status of forces agreement approved by Iraq US forces will begin to redeploy out of Iraqi cities and onto Enduring facilities, eventually US forces will most likely operate from four enduring bases and the US Embassy compound.

The four enduring facilities will most likely be:

AL Asad (Great location in the Western Desert near the Syrian border, far away from any population centers. Sprawling facility).

Tallil Air Base (Southern Iraq)

Joint Base Balad

Camp Liberty / Cape Victory Baghdad International Airport.
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dxing
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:31 pm



Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
He's not going to repeal the Bush Tax cuts, he's simply going to let them expire in 2011.

That's not what he said and I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say that sometime in the next two years he will advance at least extending those cuts.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
As for Iraq he's not going to bring all the troops home in 16 months but look for about half of the Brigade Combat teams to be withdrawn in the next 16 months.

That is still a major change to his campaign promise and one that many should have seen coming. It's certainly not going to make the operation pink types happy at all.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
Klaus
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Pro

Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:16 am

That Obama puts emphasis on the counsel of the military leadership before announcing the exact schedule and modalities is not a sign of weakness.

By the way: I find it interesting (and a pleasant surprise) that Obama will put retired general Shinseki in charge of the Veterans Affairs administration; Shinseki had basically been kicked out of the Pentagon after criticizing Rumsfeld's misguided plans for the execution of the Iraq invasion. Good to see some kind of official acknowledgment and rehabilitiation coming to him.

Plus, of course, a tough job with a lot of responsibilities in these times.

Good luck to him!
 
mirrodie
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:47 am



Quoting DXing (Thread starter):

I suppose you can all it "changing campaign promises". My intuition is simply that he is merely modifying his strategy towards achieving goals for Americans.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
By the way: I find it interesting (and a pleasant surprise) that Obama will put retired general Shinseki in charge of the Veterans Affairs administration; Shinseki had basically been kicked out of the Pentagon after criticizing Rumsfeld's misguided plans for the execution of the Iraq invasion.

I noted that too. Let's hope its another good pick in the long run.
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Falcon84
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:58 am



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 4):
Quoting DXing (Thread starter):


I suppose you can all it "changing campaign promises". My intuition is simply that he is merely modifying his strategy towards achieving goals for Americans.

How dare someone modify their thinkig. Bush would never have done that. And, therein lies why I think Obama will be a president than Bush could ever have hoped to be-Obama won't be straight-jacketed by ideology the way Bush was.

As for the Shinski appointment, I love it. Talk about an "in your face" to the Bushies!
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
WellHung
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:00 am

One would think that, if true, those on the "conservative side" would be applauding this, not using it as an excuse to put the man down. Just goes to show that to some he's damned either way, rendering such criticism worthless.
 
dxing
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:02 am



Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
That Obama puts emphasis on the counsel of the military leadership before announcing the exact schedule and modalities is not a sign of weakness.



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 4):
I suppose you can all it "changing campaign promises". My intuition is simply that he is merely modifying his strategy towards achieving goals for Americans.

Sorry, you two, and a bunch of others aren't going to get off that easy. For 5 years whenever events have dictated a change of mission in Iraq we on the conservative side have heard nothing but shrill complaints along the lines of "why are we there today?" It's a two way street. Campaigner Obama campaigned hard on removing the troops within 16 months of his election. To kow come out, after the election and toss that campaign promise over the side is a major change, not a "modification" or anything else. We on the conservative side had predicted this over and over again yet we heard nothing but that Sen. McCain wanted to be in Iraq for 100 years.

On taxes we heard nothing but how one of his priorities would be to send up legislation to repeal the Bush tax cuts on those making over 250K. We heard this right up to election day. Only after the election did we start to hear rumors that it might not come true. This again is not a modification on what he ran on but rather a complete change compared to what he campaigned on. Of course we on the conservative side have known that it was the smart play all along and are happy to see some sense coming through. But for those that posted over and over again that they thought those that make more should pay more now, and that campaigner Obama would get the troops out of where they never should have been, what good was your vote? Where is your "change"? Who's having to "apologize" now?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
Falcon84
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:20 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 7):
Sorry, you two, and a bunch of others aren't going to get off that easy.

It's not them getting off easy that any of us are worried about. It's about getting the country healthy economically again. It's about restoring our good name to the world.

Unfortunately, as you so often do, it's political ideology before what is good for the country. That's why you can't stop critisizing the man before he takes office, when most people in the nation are giving him high marks for h is choices for his cabinet, and his relative calm in the face of this crisis. Ideology first with you, however.

Your guy-Mr. Bush, on the other hand-has all but stopped being President, and just wants to go to his North Dallas 40. I'll take the guy who is coming inbound, thank you. You can have your ideologically-driven nonsense.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
bok269
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:34 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 7):
Sorry, you two, and a bunch of others aren't going to get off that easy. For 5 years whenever events have dictated a change of mission in Iraq we on the conservative side have heard nothing but shrill complaints along the lines of "why are we there today?" It's a two way street. Campaigner Obama campaigned hard on removing the troops within 16 months of his election. To kow come out, after the election and toss that campaign promise over the side is a major change, not a "modification" or anything else. We on the conservative side had predicted this over and over again yet we heard nothing but that Sen. McCain wanted to be in Iraq for 100 years.

He said that was the goal based on what military strategists said was feasible.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/#phased-withdrawal

I see no promises of a timetable here. Only that President-Elect Obama and his advisors will do their best to ensure that the withdrawal will be done responsibly.
"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
 
seb146
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:57 am



Quoting WellHung (Reply 6):
One would think that, if true, those on the "conservative side" would be applauding this, not using it as an excuse to put the man down. Just goes to show that to some he's damned either way, rendering such criticism worthless.

It does not matter which Dem would have been elected, they would have been damned no matter what. It's just sour grapes over the fact that Americans are tired of Republican/Bush games.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:24 am



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
It does not matter which Dem would have been elected, they would have been damned no matter what. It's just sour grapes over the fact that Americans are tired of Republican/Bush games.

Well said and point taken.

The funny thing is Obama has more of his cabinet in place now then W did at this time.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
dxing
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:41 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
And, therein lies why I think Obama will be a president than Bush could ever have hoped to be-Obama won't be straight-jacketed by ideology the way Bush was.

No matter what changes President Bush made he was criticized by the left, and you. As I said, turn about is fair play. Soon to be PE Obama has chucked two of his most campaigned on promises. I welcome the one, you should be incensed given the amount of time you spent applauding him on that campaign promise.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
It's not them getting off easy that any of us are worried about. It's about getting the country healthy economically again

You are included,as a matter of fact right near the top of the list. So I guess now it is ok for the wealthy to keep more of what they earn in your eyes? That wasn't your story a few weeks back. I seem to remember something about them not missing a dime, just one less luxury automobile they wouldn't get or some such prattle.

Quoting Bok269 (Reply 9):
I see no promises of a timetable here. Only that President-Elect Obama and his advisors will do their best to ensure that the withdrawal will be done responsibly.

That is not the solution he campaigned on. It is what conservatives said he would be forced to do when he got into to office. Liberals on this forum phoo phoo'd that as wishful thinking on the conservatives part. Who ended up being right?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
It does not matter which Dem would have been elected, they would have been damned no matter what.

But they are damned more quickly when they campaign heavily on one thing and then do a 180 as soon as the votes are counted. I guess it's still a mater of style over substance to some.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 11):
The funny thing is Obama has more of his cabinet in place now then W did at this time.

In 2000? You are seriously lacking when it comes to even short term history aren't you?
The 2000 election was not decided until this date in 2000. President Bush did not begin allowing his transition team to start work until the election was decided in his favor.
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Klaus
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Pro

Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:50 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 7):
Sorry, you two, and a bunch of others aren't going to get off that easy. For 5 years whenever events have dictated a change of mission in Iraq we on the conservative side have heard nothing but shrill complaints along the lines of "why are we there today?" It's a two way street.

We were criticizing an illegitimate invasion which was badly botched even on top of that.

I cannot see anything even remotely approaching the severity of these Bush/Cheney failures in the statements Obama has made thus far, yet you're already putting Obama on the same (very low) level.

Your problem is that you've got nowhere to go from here.
 
usair320
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:12 am

I see this as a movement in the right direction to appropriate withdrawing of troops. It would be unrealistic to think we could be out in 16 months (Which he never promised.). I think he is being reponsible by keeping Gates in the pentagon to ensure a smooth troop reduction in Iraq, and (Hopefully) a smooth surge in Afganistan.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:46 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 12):
No matter what changes President Bush made he was criticized by the left, and you.

You miss the point-dude DIDN'T CHANGE. He never admits he's wrong; and he's too stubborn to change course, even when mistakes are made! He is inflexible, and being inflexible in that office is a hinderance, not a positive. That's what you can't see!

Quoting DXing (Reply 12):
As I said, turn about is fair play.

Again, as I've said, ideological principal before what's best for the country, eh? And it shows you're just pissed, nothing more, nothing less, that the American people don't like the GOP's inflexible ideology.


Quoting DXing (Reply 12):
You are included,as a matter of fact right near the top of the list.

I really don't care if I'm on your list. I want to see this nation get healthy. If I had thought John McCain could have done a better job, I'd have voted for him. But I don't think he can. I think McCain would have followed the same old GOP economic policies-the ones that got us into this mess in the first place. Again, this is not about ideology. It's about getting the country economically healthy again.
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Mir
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:57 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 7):
For 5 years whenever events have dictated a change of mission in Iraq we on the conservative side have heard nothing but shrill complaints along the lines of "why are we there today?"

For three of those years, whenever events dictated a change of mission, that change was not made, because "we had to stay the course or else we would be giving aid and comfort to our enemies", or something like that. Funny how it was only when we finally started adjusting our strategy based on what was actually happening rather than what was planned for that we started making headway.

There is nothing wrong with adapting one's position based on the receipt of different information. In fact, that's what good leaders do.

-Mir
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PSA727
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:52 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
How dare someone modify their thinkig. Bush would never have done that. And, therein lies why I think Obama will be a president than Bush could ever have hoped to be-Obama won't be straight-jacketed by ideology the way Bush was.

It's not modifying one's thinking. It's outright lying during the campaign or not fully understanding the actual situation to begin with. You choose.
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UN_B732
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:38 am

American politics and the two party establishment; real change is impossible. Ugh.

-A
What now?
 
dxing
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:53 am



Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
We were criticizing an illegitimate invasion which was badly botched even on top of that.

Number one, the invasion was not illegitimate and number two the military action against Saddams armed forces was carried out with nary a flaw.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
Your problem is that you've got nowhere to go from here.

Your problem is that you now have to defend someone who had no clue during the campaign and made promises he now realizes he can't keep. Promises that Sen. McCain would not make and was roundly criticized for by the left. When all is said and done in two major areas of the campaign soon to be PE Obama is following what Sen. McCain said he would do all along. It also becomes a truth that every soldier that dies after January 20th, 2009 is directly on soon to be PE Obama's head since he promised to start withdrawing them immediately upon taking office more than a few times in the campaign. A promise that he evidently realizes, way too late, that he cannot keep.

Quoting Usair320 (Reply 14):
It would be unrealistic to think we could be out in 16 months (Which he never promised.).

 rotfl   rotfl  I guess they need to change their website then huh?

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ir.../side_by_side_comparison/index.php

Barack Obama will work with military commanders on the ground in Iraq and in consultation with the Iraqi government to end the war safely and responsibly within 16 months.

Sounds like a promise to me.

Quoting Usair320 (Reply 14):
I think he is being reponsible by keeping Gates in the pentagon to ensure a smooth troop reduction in Iraq, and (Hopefully) a smooth surge in Afganistan.

I think it speak volumes more to how lacking any democratic candidate was. Liberals had no problem with President Bush changing defense secretaries in mid-stream. BTW, exactly what do you think a troop surge into Afghanistan is going to accomplish other than raise the cost of that operation?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
He never admits he's wrong; and he's too stubborn to change course, even when mistakes are made!

And as we are beginning to see soon to be PE Obama had no clue what he was talking about and now his policies are mirroring those of Sen. McCain. So who was right to begin with? Sen. McCain who correctly identified the proper course of action on two major policy disputes, or the soon to be PE who is having to backtrack on two major campaing promises that people voted for him in part on and is now mirroring his opponents policies? How often in the future is he going to have to go back and completely retool his campaign policies because he realizes they were flawed from the beginning?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
Again, as I've said, ideological principal before what's best for the country, eh?

I don't hear him saying he was wrong on being able to get out of Iraq or wrong on changing the Bush tax cuts and I don't hear you complaining about that even though you were vociferous in saying campaigner Obam had it right, as a matter of fact I see you defending him, so exactly who is putting "party" first now?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
If I had thought John McCain could have done a better job, I'd have voted for him.

You should be thinking that now considering the major policy changes that soon to be PE Obama has made, without even assuming office yet! He is showing what we conservatives also noted in the campaign, we now have a leader who is getting on the job training. I wonder how much that will cost us?

Quoting Mir (Reply 16):
For three of those years, whenever events dictated a change of mission, that change was not made, because "we had to stay the course or else we would be giving aid and comfort to our enemies",

Because for those three years liberals were calling for out and out withdrawl and defeat which did give aid and comfort to our enemies. Ask the leaders of Vietnam if they took heart in the public protest in the 1960's.

Quoting Mir (Reply 16):
There is nothing wrong with adapting one's position based on the receipt of different information. In fact, that's what good leaders do.

What has changed in Iraq? If anything the Bush administration has made it easier for him to fulfill his campaign promise by getting a new agreement arranged before the transition. Yet for some strange reason he now feels compelled to leave the troops there. How has taxing the rich to fund a middle class tax break changed? The rich are still richer than the middle class. The government needs that money now more than ever. Nope, This is not "adapting" or "modification", this is getting elected and realizing that you didn't have a clue about what you were talking about. It's going to be fun watching those that voted for him try and defend his pie in the sky visions when they come crashing down one after the other.

This isn't about party, it's about governing, and as we are already seeing, style does not trump substance when it comes to good governing. The only question left now is how much this "style" is going to cost us in the long run.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
NIKV69
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:59 pm



Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
He's not going to repeal the Bush Tax cuts, he's simply going to let them expire in 2011

Wrong he will continue to slash taxes for coporate America, to do otherwise would be a disaster.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
As for Iraq he's not going to bring all the troops home in 16 months but look for about half of the Brigade Combat teams to be withdrawn in the next 16 months.

Oh he has codepink already pissed off, their president was on Hannity the other night and they are watching Obama quite closely now. They are also not happy with his stance on Iran (which is the same as Bush and McCain) and want him to uncondtionally talk to them. Which we all know will never happen but sounded good on the campaign trail and garnished many votes from the moveon crowd as well.

Quoting DXing (Reply 2):
That's not what he said and I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say that sometime in the next two years he will advance at least extending those cuts.

Of course he can't have his pal Oprah paying more taxes. Kidding aside he will totally reneg on his campaign promise of going after the big bad CEOs and business unless he wants more jobs to go to Malasia.

Quoting DXing (Reply 2):
That is still a major change to his campaign promise and one that many should have seen coming. It's certainly not going to make the operation pink types happy at all.

No they are not happy. Kind of like how they felt with Pelosi after she promised them to end the war and couldn't.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 4):
I suppose you can all it "changing campaign promises". My intuition is simply that he is merely modifying his strategy towards achieving goals for Americans.

Ahh yes the ol' "campaign from the left and govern from the right"? Mario he misrepresented himeslf to many of his voters to get their vote knowing full well he could never follow through on most of them once he takes office. Which trust me I am thankful for.

Quoting DXing (Reply 7):
Where is your "change"?

Merely a campaign slogan that was thrown out with all those cardboard placards his voters held up at his rallies.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
Unfortunately, as you so often do, it's political ideology before what is good for the country.

You say this? Then say this?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
As for the Shinski appointment, I love it. Talk about an "in your face" to the Bushies!

 confused 

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
that the American people don't like the GOP's inflexible ideology.

Then why is your buddy Obama moving toward their policies after the election?

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 17):
It's outright lying during the campaign or not fully understanding the actual situation to begin with.

In Obama's case it's both, which is why he is changing his governing so radically from what he said.

Quoting DXing (Reply 19):
Barack Obama will work with military commanders on the ground in Iraq and in consultation with the Iraqi government to end the war safely and responsibly within 16 months.

Sounds like a promise to me.

Of course it was but he will get a pass from just about all like he did all campaign.

Quoting DXing (Reply 19):
And as we are beginning to see soon to be PE Obama had no clue what he was talking about and now his policies are mirroring those of Sen. McCain. So who was right to begin with? Sen. McCain who correctly identified the proper course of action on two major policy disputes, or the soon to be PE who is having to backtrack on two major campaing promises that people voted for him in part on and is now mirroring his opponents policies? How often in the future is he going to have to go back and completely retool his campaign policies because he realizes they were flawed from the beginning?

 checkmark 
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
luv2fly
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:32 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 12):
In 2000? You are seriously lacking when it comes to even short term history aren't you?
The 2000 election was not decided until this date in 2000. President Bush did not begin allowing his transition team to start work until the election was decided in his favor.

No I am pointing out a FACT! Bush did nothing in preparing early. Come on he already knew he won thanks to his brother in Florida. Like always Bush was/is reactive not proactive.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:36 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 19):
Barack Obama will work with military commanders on the ground in Iraq and in consultation with the Iraqi government to end the war safely and responsibly within 16 months.

And where does that say all TROOPS will be out in 16 months? No where....just keep grasping for straws.

Quoting DXing (Reply 19):
He is showing what we conservatives also noted in the campaign, we now have a leader who is getting on the job training. I wonder how much that will cost us?

You didn't seem too upset to have a leader for the past 8 years that was getting on the job training.

Quoting DXing (Reply 19):
Sen. McCain who correctly identified the proper course of action on two major policy disputes, or the soon to be PE who is having to backtrack on two major campaing promises that people voted for him in part on and is now mirroring his opponents policies?

McCain didn't correctly identify anything. He just chose the do nothing option on everything. Whether it was Iraq, the economy or healthcare, McCain wasn't willing to commit to anything because he had NO plans and NO vision. He was just going to sit around with his head stuck in the sand and do nothing.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:43 pm



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
And where does that say all TROOPS will be out in 16 months? No where....just keep grasping for straws.

Straws?

Forgetting about Iraq totally.


Before the election he said he would impose a windfall tax on big oil, after he won he has said he won't.

Before the election he said he would repeal the Bust tax cuts immediately upon becoming president, after he won he said he would let them run out which I would willing to bet (and we can visit it here) that he won't.

He has the true liberals mad as hell with this and his appointments to his cabinet. So you can shelve the talking point rhetoric. This is fact, but grasping at anything. This guy held campaign rallies where he got people all riled up with this rhetoric about attacking big business and oil and giving it back to the middle class and this other crap and he has done a complete 180. It's not Rush or Laura or any kind of rhetoric. It's pretty plain to see.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
dxing
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:54 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 21):
No I am pointing out a FACT! Bush did nothing in preparing early. Come on he already knew he won thanks to his brother in Florida. Like always Bush was/is reactive not proactive.

Right, good answer, the library is full of history books or you can do it on line. BTW the election was not decided by his brother. That's also in the history books if you'd care to read.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
And where does that say all TROOPS will be out in 16 months? No where....just keep grasping for straws.

This would be from that same website, the one you didn't bother to look at before "grasping for straws" yourself.

A Responsible, Phased Withdrawal
Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe we must be as careful getting out of Iraq as we were careless getting in. Immediately upon taking office, Obama will give his Secretary of Defense and military commanders a new mission in Iraq: ending the war. The removal of our troops will be responsible and phased, directed by military commanders on the ground and done in consultation with the Iraqi government. Military experts believe we can safely redeploy combat brigades from Iraq at a pace of 1 to 2 brigades a month that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 – more than 7 years after the war began.


Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
You didn't seem too upset to have a leader for the past 8 years that was getting on the job training.

Because when he entered office he already had real world experience as a chief executive both in private business as well as being a Governor of the second largest State in the Union. Two things that the soon to be PE Obama cannot list on his resume.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
McCain didn't correctly identify anything.

Really, then I guess soon to be PE Obama is not correctly identifying anything either since his new stated policy as compared to the policy he campaigned on and was elected on mirrors Sen. McCains.

http://www.johnmccain.com/Issues/JobsforAmerica/taxes.htm

Keep Tax Rates Low: Entrepreneurs are at the heart of American innovation, growth and prosperity. Entrepreneurs create the ultimate job security - a new, better opportunity if your current job goes away. Entrepreneurs should not be taxed into submission. John McCain will keep the top tax rate at 35 percent, maintain the 15 percent rates on dividends and capital gains, and phase-out the Alternative Minimum Tax. Small businesses are the heart of job growth; raising taxes on them hurts every worker.

And the soon to be PE Obama's new policy on Iraq should sound awful familiar too.

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/...a7-30b0-4ece-8e34-4c7ea83f11d8.htm

Those gains would be lost if we were to follow the policy advocated by Senator Barack Obama to withdraw most of our troops and leave behind only a small “strike force” to battle terrorists. That is, in essence, the same strategy of withdrawing from Iraq’s streets that failed in 2006. John McCain advocates continuing the successful counterinsurgency strategy that began in 2007.

Face it, the guy ran on a bunch of policies that now he has been elected to the office he realizes are not doable. I'm happy that he has woken up to reality but if I had voted for him based on the campaign promises he was making I'd be pretty disappointed. As a matter of fact, it seems that some of them are.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081208/pl_politico/16292

"Obama insists he hasn’t abandoned the goals that made him feel to some like a liberal savior. But the left’s bill of particulars against Obama is long, and growing."

The policies and visions he ran on are certainly are falling off the truck one by one on the way to the White House. You folks voted for style over substance yet again. When are you going to stop falling for a pretty face and a smooth line? He can't even make a personal change he said he would.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081207/pl_nm/us_usa_obama_smoking

"I have," Obama replied, smiling broadly. "What I said was that there are times where I have fallen off the wagon."

"Wait a minute," Brokaw interjected, "that means you haven't stopped."

"Fair enough," Obama said. "What I would say is that I have done a terrific job under the circumstances of making myself much healthier. You will not see any violations of these rules in the White House."


Now I ask you, is that change we can believe in?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
Klaus
Posts: 20594
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:56 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
Before the election he said he would impose a windfall tax on big oil, after he won he has said he won't.

Before the election he said he would repeal the Bust tax cuts immediately upon becoming president, after he won he said he would let them run out which I would willing to bet (and we can visit it here) that he won't.

These complaints are utterly ridiculous when looking at the chaotic mess at this point in time the Bush administration is leaving behind, with the economy in turmoil and the outlook more uncertain than ever.

Boneheadedly ramming through ideas which had been conceived when the economy was still in smoother waters would be completely irresponsible. Your demands say a lot about your complete detachment from the real world and a fanatical partisanship which even many republicans in office are trying to step away from.

I recommend a good look at the real world outside your door at this time.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20594
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:59 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 24):
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
And where does that say all TROOPS
This would be from that same website, the one you didn't bother to look at before "grasping for straws" yourself.

A Responsible, Phased Withdrawal
Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe we must be as careful getting out of Iraq as we were careless getting in. Immediately upon taking office, Obama will give his Secretary of Defense and military commanders a new mission in Iraq: ending the war. The removal of our troops will be responsible and phased, directed by military commanders on the ground and done in consultation with the Iraqi government. Military experts believe we can safely redeploy combat brigades from Iraq at a pace of 1 to 2 brigades a month that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 – more than 7 years after the war began.

Notice the difference on a second look?
 
seb146
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:21 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 16):
There is nothing wrong with adapting one's position based on the receipt of different information. In fact, that's what good leaders do.

Funny thing: I just read an article on Yahoo where Obama said this exact thing.

Quoting DXing (Reply 24):
"I have," Obama replied, smiling broadly. "What I said was that there are times where I have fallen off the wagon."

"Wait a minute," Brokaw interjected, "that means you haven't stopped."

"Fair enough," Obama said. "What I would say is that I have done a terrific job under the circumstances of making myself much healthier. You will not see any violations of these rules in the White House."

Now I ask you, is that change we can believe in?

A leader that can admit he has done wrong? What a concept! That is something I voted for. Changing to adapt to current conditions instead of "we want to be over there, so let's organize everything as if we are already there instead of trying to figure out how to get there."

Take the windfall profit tax on big oil: For once, big oil will not be reporting record profits. For once, big oil will be losing money. What good would it do to impose a winfall profit tax now? When big oil was gouging Americans, it made total sense. Just like the "gas tax holiday." Americans (including Barak Obama) saw right through that rhetoric. Adapting to current conditions.

Or, look at it this way: It will be 90 degrees and sunny here in July. It is 35 and rain/snow right now, but I will put on a tank top, flip-flops and board shorts because it will be warm in July. That is the way the Bush administration thinks. On the other hand, the Obama team knows it will be 90 here in July, but sees it is 35 and rain/snow right now, so on go the galoshes, umbrella, quilted coat, even long-johns under pants.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5271
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:39 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 24):
Military experts believe we can safely redeploy combat brigades from Iraq at a pace of 1 to 2 brigades a month that would remove them in 16 months.

Again, no where does this say Obama promised to have all troops out in 16 months. You guys are trying to create promises that never existed.

Quoting DXing (Reply 24):
Because when he entered office he already had real world experience as a chief executive both in private business as well as being a Governor of the second largest State in the Union.

Well for someone with so much experience, he managed to screw up almost everything he touched...sounds like all his experience didn't do him much good.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
Straws?

Forgetting about Iraq totally.

I'm sure most conservatives would like to, it's much easier to start fights then finish them.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
Before the election he said he would impose a windfall tax on big oil, after he won he has said he won't.

The windfall tax was premised on high oil prices and the big profits that come with them. Since oil prices aren't high anymore, there's really no point. You can't tax profits that don't exist.

Quoting DXing (Reply 24):
Now I ask you, is that change we can believe in?

Absolutely. It's a refreshing change to have a president who adapts and recognizes a fluid situation, instead of a president who blindly clings to ideology. To me, it's a good sign that Obama is pissing off the uber-liberals....that means he's really doing his job. The best presidents usually piss off the people who exist on the fringes....left and right.

Quoting DXing (Reply 24):
Face it, the guy ran on a bunch of policies that now he has been elected to the office he realizes are not doable.

Last I checked, he still plans to withdraw from Iraq and he still plans to raise taxes on the wealthy. The only thing that changes is the exact timeline, but the overall policy remains the same.
 
dxing
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:23 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 26):
Notice the difference on a second look?

No. He stated continually during his campaign that imediately upon office he would begin reducing the troops. He has now abandoned that stated aim.

Quoting DXing (Reply 19):
Barack Obama will work with military commanders on the ground in Iraq and in consultation with the Iraqi government to end the war safely and responsibly within 16 months.



Quoting DXing (Reply 24):
Military experts believe we can safely redeploy combat brigades from Iraq at a pace of 1 to 2 brigades a month that would remove them in 16 months.



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 28):
Again, no where does this say Obama promised to have all troops out in 16 months. You guys are trying to create promises that never existed.

I can start digging up quote after quote if you wish or would you rather save yourself the embarassment and just admit that what he was promising all through the campaign?

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 28):
Well for someone with so much experience, he managed to screw up almost everything he touched...sounds like all his experience didn't do him much good.

Really, the economy was bad for all 8 years? When he took over the country was in a recession or no? He has just negotiated an end game to our soldiers in Iraq saving the next administration even further embarassment and that's a screw up. Sure.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 28):
I'm sure most conservatives would like to, it's much easier to start fights then finish them.

And with this agreement we have finished it. The time table that liberals were clamoring for back when it would have led to defeat is now in place and we will leave with victory.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 28):
The windfall tax was premised on high oil prices and the big profits that come with them. Since oil prices aren't high anymore, there's really no point. You can't tax profits that don't exist.

I'll be you right now the oil companies have profits this quarter.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 28):
Absolutely. It's a refreshing change to have a president who adapts and recognizes a fluid situation, instead of a president who blindly clings to ideology.

And it's going to be a horrendous change to see a leader flounder around not even having an ideology to back him up, at least not one that he dares show in public until after 2012.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 28):
Last I checked, he still plans to withdraw from Iraq and he still plans to raise taxes on the wealthy. The only thing that changes is the exact timeline, but the overall policy remains the same.

Gosh it's funny to see the shoe on the other foot. For a number of years I've heard nothing but whining about President Bush wasn't changing fast enough. Now you're willing to roll over and give your guy all the rope in the world. There's a word for that, want to guess what it is?

What is really humorous is how rather than discuss those promises that soon to be PE Obama is not keeping all the left can do is say "yeah but". Now that's some kind of change isn't it?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:21 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
I can start digging up quote after quote if you wish or would you rather save yourself the embarassment and just admit that what he was promising all through the campaign?

Obama said all along that 16 months was a goal, but that he would let the military dictate the pace of withdrawal which is exactly what he is doing.

Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
Really, the economy was bad for all 8 years?

Actually yes, the economy was bad all 8 years, however the poor state of the economy was masked by a huge credit bubble, housing bubble and reckless gov't spending. Bush relied solely on consumers and the gov't to spend money they didn't have to fuel the economy. I'm not saying Bush started all this, it had begun long before he was in office. However, he did nothing to fix it either and only made it worse with his policies.

Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
And with this agreement we have finished it. The time table that liberals were clamoring for back when it would have led to defeat is now in place and we will leave with victory.

I hope you are right, but indications tells us otherwise. The Iraqi gov't is a joke, the Iraqi military/police are a joke and the terrorists are just waiting for us to leave. Once we're gone, the country will return to being the mess it was before. I hope I'm wrong, but so far Iraq has played out as expected.

Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
I'll be you right now the oil companies have profits this quarter.

Only problem is that Obama isn't President right now. What will oil company profits be next year? Even if they do post some profits, it won't be enough to justify a windfall tax.

Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
And it's going to be a horrendous change to see a leader flounder around not even having an ideology to back him up

If you think its horrendous for a President to do what's right for the country instead of blindly following an ideology, so be it.
 
travelin man
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:51 pm

Amazing.

Obama is not even the President yet, and he is being attacked for "back-tracking" on promises.

Right wingers are going to have a long time in the wilderness if this is the best they can do.

I can see the 2012 Republican campaign slogans already: "Vote for us because Obama didn't raise taxes on the rich, and stayed in Iraq a little longer after consulting with the military on the ground."

Obama has already created a very good cabinet full of people that actually know what they are doing. He will close Gitmo. He will help clean up the absolute disaster the current administration has left behind.

If he does those things, the American people will be happy (and certainly better off than they are today).
 
dxing
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:15 pm



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 30):
Obama said all along that 16 months was a goal, but that he would let the military dictate the pace of withdrawal which is exactly what he is doing.

Ok, you asked for it.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Archive/2008_Pres_1_War_+_Peace.htm

"Obama stretched out his schedule for withdrawing troops from Iraq. During the debate, Obama said we could "reduce" the number of combat troops in 16 months. Obama said, "We should end this war responsibly. We should do it in phases. But in 16 months we should be able to reduce our combat troops, provide some relief to military families and our troops and bolster our efforts in Afghanistan so that we can capture and kill bin Laden and crush al Qaeda."
But in Oct. 2007, Obama supported removing all combat troops from Iraq within 16 months, saying, "I will remove one or two brigades a month, and get all of our combat troops out of Iraq within 16 months. The only troops I will keep in Iraq will perform the limited missions of protecting our diplomats and carrying out targeted strikes on al Qaeda. And I will launch the diplomatic and humanitarian initiatives that are so badly needed. Let there be no doubt: I will end this war." The quote appears on the campaign's Web site.

http://www.issues2000.org/2008/Barack_Obama_War_+_Peace.htm

Q: You have said "we will be out of Iraq in 16 months at the most." No matter what the military commanders say?
[i]A: The commander in chief sets the mission. That's not the role of the generals. The president's approach lately has been to say, well, I'm just taking cues from General Petraeus. Well, the president sets the mission. The general and our troops carry out that mission. And unfortunately we have had a bad mission. Once I've given them a new mission, that we are going to proceed deliberatel in an orderly fashion out of Iraq, if they come to me and want to adjust tactics, then I will certainly take their recommendations into consideration. And I have to look at not just the situation in Iraq, but the fact that we continue to see al Qaeda getting stronger in Afghanistan and in Pakistan, we continue to see anti-American sentiment fanned all cross the Middle East, and we are overstretched in a way that we do not have a strategic reserve at this point



I have put forward a plan that will get our troops out by the end of 2009. We already saw today reports that the Iraqi minister suggests that we're going to be in there at least until 2018, a decade-long commitment. Currently, we are spending $9 to $10 billion a month. The notion is that we are going to sustain that at the same time as we're neglecting what we see happening in Afghanistan right now, where you have a luxury hotel in Kabul blown up by militants and the situation continues to worsen.
Source: 2008 Democratic debate in Las Vegas Jan 15, 2008


I can keep going. There are plenty more. There were plenty more debates during the democratic primary that I can refer too. Still plenty of stump speeches where he promised to end the war immediately.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 30):
Actually yes, the economy was bad all 8 years

Then you never bothered to check the productivity and employment records.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 30):
, he did nothing to fix it either and only made it worse with his policies.

Sorry, that doesn't fact check either. Twice he proposed changes to the way Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac handled loans, twice he was rebuffed and insulted by the likes of Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. When the Republican Congress did pass legislation to make it more difficult to just walk away from bad debt liberals were up in arms over it.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 30):
The Iraqi gov't is a joke, the Iraqi military/police are a joke

That is your opnion but the fact remains they have overpowered and defeated Al Sadr's forces when ever they matched up against each other. Iraqi police now man most check points in the cities freeing our troops from having to do so. A third free an fair election is set for next month.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 30):
it won't be enough to justify a windfall tax.

Still willing to bet on that.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 30):
If you think its horrendous for a President to do what's right for the country instead of blindly following an ideology, so be it.

First you have to agree what he is doing is right for the country. If you are going to say what he is now proposing for Iraq and for tax policy is right, then you have to admit that Sen. McCain was right before soon to be PE Obama was. Since you didn't agree that what Sen. McCain wanted to do is right it's awful hypocritical to now come out and say that what soon to be PE Obama is doing is right since it is the same thing.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:12 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 32):
I can keep going. There are plenty more. There were plenty more debates during the democratic primary that I can refer too. Still plenty of stump speeches where he promised to end the war immediately.

The hilarious thing is that the two items you quote actually contradict each other in terms of timeline...indicating that Obama hadn't committed to a hard timeline.

Quoting DXing (Reply 32):
Then you never bothered to check the productivity and employment records.

I don't care how good those numbers are when it's based on people and gov't just piling on massive amounts of debt they can't payback.

Quoting DXing (Reply 32):
Twice he proposed changes to the way Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac handled loans, twice he was rebuffed and insulted by the likes of Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.

If Bush was serious about reform, he could have pushed it through. He did for some time have majorities in both house and Senate. But beyond that, Fannie and Freddie were only a TINY part of the problem.

Quoting DXing (Reply 32):
If you are going to say what he is now proposing for Iraq and for tax policy is right, then you have to admit that Sen. McCain was right before soon to be PE Obama was.

McCain had no withdrawal plan for Iraq, so his policy is not like Obamas. As for tax plans, they're not the same either as McCain wanted further corporate tax cuts which Obama is not proposing. And Obama is willing to let the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy expire whereas McCain wanted them made permanent. So I don't have to admit McCain is right, because the policies aren't the same.
 
bok269
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:14 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 12):

That is not the solution he campaigned on.

Show me proof of him saying, "I will have all troops out of Iraq within 16 months."
"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
 
Mir
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:21 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 19):
Because for those three years liberals were calling for out and out withdrawl and defeat which did give aid and comfort to our enemies.

There were also plenty of people who said that while withdrawing from Iraq was not an option, some change in strategy was necessary as a result of what was going on on the ground. They were likewise ignored.

Quoting DXing (Reply 19):
The only question left now is how much this "style" is going to cost us in the long run.

So if I understand you correctly, while you are glad to see him adjust his policy, you believe that he cost us in the long run. Yes, that makes perfect sense.  Yeah sure

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
He has the true liberals mad as hell with this and his appointments to his cabinet.

Define "true liberals". Because it's certainly not Code Pink.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
mt99
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:53 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 32):
If you are going to say what he is now proposing for Iraq and for tax policy is right, then you have to admit that Sen. McCain was right before soon to be PE Obama was.

Lets assume this is true for a second. Obama still has a significant advantage over McCain and that is that Sarah Palin is still in Alaska
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Dougloid
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:05 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 32):
First you have to agree what he is doing is right for the country. If you are going to say what he is now proposing for Iraq and for tax policy is right, then you have to admit that Sen. McCain was right before soon to be PE Obama was. Since you didn't agree that what Sen. McCain wanted to do is right it's awful hypocritical to now come out and say that what soon to be PE Obama is doing is right since it is the same thing.

OK. I give up. You and Father Coughlin....err, El Rushbo I believe, you're completely right.

Where do I change my vote? You say he's going to be president for the next four years and probably get elected by a tub thumping majority while you guys hole up in the Republican Redoubt?

Awwww dammit. You had me going there for a minute.


 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 
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ER757
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:29 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 32):
soon to be PE Obama

Ummmm- he's not "soon to be" PE, he already is "president elect." I think you mean "soon to be POTUS"

And the the title of this thread gets me - it's not exactly news when a politician changes his tune after an election. That goes right up there with headlines like "Sky is Blue" and Water found to be Wet"
 
dxing
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:40 am



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 34):
The hilarious thing is that the two items you quote actually contradict each other in terms of timeline

No they don't.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 34):
and gov't

Yet what is our soon to be PE proposing?

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 34):
If Bush was serious about reform, he could have pushed it through

No he couldn't. His way was blocked particularly in the Senate where:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 34):
He did for some time have majorities in both house and Senate.

He never had a fillibuster proof majority which is what it would have taken to make those reforms happen.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 34):
But beyond that, Fannie and Freddie were only a TINY part of the problem.

Fannie and Freddie and the sub prime mess are the basis for the current economic problems.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 34):
McCain had no withdrawal plan for Iraq, so his policy is not like Obamas.

So now you say that soon to be PE Obama did have a withdrawl plan, which you say he never promised. No matter, I can understand you not wanting to have to admit your guy is flip flopping like a spring breaker in Panama City. McCain wanted no time table until the situation was stable in Iraq. Early in his quest for the democratic nomination soon to be PE Obama wasn't even willing to wait for that and as a Senator he was pushing to bring the troops home before the surge that he said would not work but now says still didn't work.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 34):
As for tax plans, they're not the same either as McCain wanted further corporate tax cuts which Obama is not proposing.

Yet. Give it time. I expect that soon after January 20th.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 34):
And Obama is willing to let the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy expire

That's not what he committed to on meet the press. He just said that he wouldn't fulfill his campaign promise of requesting legislation to withdraw them immediately to pay for the middle class tax cut he has grown suspiciously quiet on. Want to guess which campaign promise bites the dust next?

Quoting Bok269 (Reply 35):
Show me proof of him saying, "I will have all troops out of Iraq within 16 months."

Already have, read the posts above.

Quoting Mir (Reply 36):
So if I understand you correctly, while you are glad to see him adjust his policy, you believe that he cost us in the long run.

Yep, because as he said, it's going to get worse before it gets better which is good for him. All the more simple to get the programs he wants passed by using gasp fear, yes economic fear. We are already seeing part of this in the installation by the democratic party run Congress of the Car Czar. So now, government, which to date has had such stellar success at running such programs as medicaid and medicare, gets to run automobile companies. This ought to be good.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 37):
and that is that Sarah Palin is still in Alaska

That's all you've got? I think I predicted that this would happen. Rather than face up to the promises that soon to be PE Obama got elected on and is now abandoning, you'd rather talk about Governor Palin. As I have said repeatedly, with you folks it's always style before substance. Thanks for confirming that.

Quoting ER757 (Reply 39):
Ummmm- he's not "soon to be" PE, he already is "president elect." I think you mean "soon to be POTUS"

Not yet. The Electoral College does not meet until December 15th. At that time he officially becomes President Elect. Right now he is the presumed or as I say, soon to be, President Elect.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-regi.../electoral-college/2008/dates.html
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baroque
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:15 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
It's not them getting off easy that any of us are worried about. It's about getting the country healthy economically again. It's about restoring our good name to the world.



Quoting Klaus (Reply 25):

These complaints are utterly ridiculous when looking at the chaotic mess at this point in time the Bush administration is leaving behind, with the economy in turmoil and the outlook more uncertain than ever.

That is about it. He inherited an economy in a reasonable state, seems to have ignored advice about threats from Mr Terry Wrist and has got the whole world into a hell of a worse mess than needed. Even at this distance we do notice. Try today's cartoon in the SMH at:
http://www.smh.com.au/cartoons/
Damn these cartoonists, they are good.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:53 am



Quoting Baroque (Reply 41):
Try today's cartoon in the SMH at:

I did, and it's a masterpiece. Hope that guy is getting a decent salary.

Quoting DXing (Reply 24):
"I have," Obama replied, smiling broadly. "What I said was that there are times where I have fallen off the wagon."

"Wait a minute," Brokaw interjected, "that means you haven't stopped."

"Fair enough," Obama said. "What I would say is that I have done a terrific job under the circumstances of making myself much healthier. You will not see any violations of these rules in the White House."


Are you equating a smoking habit with broken campaign promises? Why was that thrown in there?

Sigh.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
baroque
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:15 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 42):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 41):
Try today's cartoon in the SMH at:

I did, and it's a masterpiece. Hope that guy is getting a decent salary.

He is certainly well regarded, but the SMH is in a bit of financial strife so he might not be getting what he is worth. He had a set of gems during the campaign and has always been a keen aficionado of the Bush style of things. Unlike the late lamented Giles from the UK, he has never put out an annual. It would be worth a scan.

Some of the threads would definitely be informed with his cartoons, I must see if the SMH will agree to them being posted on a.net, but they seem to be a bit odd about copyright even when it is to their advantage.

Choosing a car that is a bit the worse for wear out on a limb over a cliff is such perfect imagery for the woes being handed to Obama. Hardly surprising if Obama did not change his campaign promises. The old story of "when the facts change, I change my opinion, what do you do sir?" Hopefully in Obama we will have someone who can adapt to what will be rapidly changing circumstances. Some of the gloom and doom merchants reckon we ain't seen nothing yet for some aspects of financial deals past.
 
dxing
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:25 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 41):
That is about it. He inherited an economy in a reasonable state,

You're kidding right? Recession is a reasonable state?

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 42):
Are you equating a smoking habit with broken campaign promises? Why was that thrown in there?

If you can't keep a promise to yourself about yourself what does that say to promises you make to another? We're not talking about some skid row crackhead. We're talking about an intelligent individual who has access to some of the best health care the country has to offer and he can't stop smoking? I smoked for 23 years. 10 years ago I said enough and made a promise to myself and my wife never to smoke again. I haven't "fallen off the wagon" once since then.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
mt99
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:30 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 44):
I haven't "fallen off the wagon" once since then.

Maybe you should run for President.

So, DX, you agree with Obama moves now.. so should we count you as part of the 79%?

The poll indicates that 79 percent of the public thinks Obama will do a good job as president -- up 4 percentage points from last month. Eighteen percent think Obama will do a poor job as president, down 3 points from November.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/09/Obama.poll/index.html

Maybe you should have voted for him to begin with  Smile
Step into my office, baby
 
dxing
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:56 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 44):
Maybe you should have voted for him to begin with

Maybe those that voted for him should have voted for McCain instead, those seem to be the policies that he is following, not the ones he (Obama) campaigned on.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:17 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 43):
We're talking about an intelligent individual who has access to some of the best health care the country has to offer and he can't stop smoking?

Numerous studies suggest that individuals who have high levels of stress are less likely to succeed at quitting smoking. My father is 58, a VP of marketing for a major systems manufacturer, and has 24 direct reports in 12 countries from India to Japan to Australia. His company is HQ'd in the SF Bay Area. With the travel schedule and 2 am phone calls that go with his job, he hasn't been able to quit despite his best efforts over the last 5 years. He too has the best health care money can buy. I don't doubt for a second that stress and a ridiculous travel schedule are to blame for his and Obama's inability to quit.

I still don't see what that has to do with his "promises". It was a dumb call to include it. You'd be far better-served posting recent quotes from left-wing websites calling Obama's cabinet appointments equivalent to "punching campaign donors in the face".
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
captaink
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:34 pm

Many have personal opinions on who would be the better president. DXing is obviously a Republican. And this fight can go on for years, without getting anywhere. But here is thing...

Obama WILL be the next president of the USA. SO all those are against need to get on board or the ship will be leaving them.

Bush was a TERRIBLE president. I can't see any way of rationalizing his actions, the USA, and in effect the world is economically in shambles right now. The Iraq war, even if it is drawing to a close, can hardly be called a successful venture.

Obama seems to have some plans to help change the situation. His plans now had to be adapted to suit the current situation, times change, and so do plans, but his overall message seems to be the same. What we need to hope for is that he can accomplish something. It is going to be a lot hard work, and it won't be today for tomorrow, but I hardly think he is capable (and it is really a capability  Smile ) to be worse than Bush as a president.

I think America needed some drastic changes, and I doubted McCain to be the one do it. So that leaves you with Obama.

Now it is time for America to quit whining about who is better Republicans or Democrats, that fight is now a thing of the past, right now you need to focus on the really important issues at hand, and that is ending this ridiculous war, and remedying the economical situation, get America back where it used to be.
There is something special about planes....
 
dxing
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:33 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 46):
Numerous studies suggest that individuals who have high levels of stress are less likely to succeed at quitting smoking.

Sorry, my jobs have all been stressful, right up to the one I have today. If I can quit so can he. If he makes a promise to quit, he should honor that promise. If he can't, it doesn't bode will for being able to fulfill any other promise as well.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 47):
Obama WILL be the next president of the USA. SO all those are against need to get on board or the ship will be leaving them.

Hmmm, like so many have said over the past 8 years "he's not my President"? That was really getting on board wan't it? Or like a poster here is fond of saying, it's his patriotic right to dissent? Sorry, he may be my President but that does not mean I have to agree with him on any number of issues. Funny how you make a statement like that and then follow it up with:

Quoting Captaink (Reply 47):
Bush was a TERRIBLE president. I can't see any way of rationalizing his actions,

Yet we are supposed to just blindly rationalize some of the plans that soon to be President Obama has in store?

Quoting Captaink (Reply 47):
Obama seems to have some plans to help change the situation.

Sure does, and when it comes to taxes and the Iraq war he can thank John McCain when he is ready.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 47):
but his overall message seems to be the same.

What? In what way. On these two issues he has completely flipped from what he campaigned on.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 47):
Now it is time for America to quit whining about who is better Republicans or Democrats

It's about policy.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
sv7887
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RE: Obama On Meet The Press, Changing Campaign Promies

Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:00 pm

Cmon guys,
The guy hasn't even been sworn in yet and we're already bickering. What Politician doesn't renege on campaign promises? President Bush was elected on a small government isolationist platform. Bill Clinton was elected on a leftist platform and was pretty levelheaded.

President Elect Obama actually has impressed me with his Cabinet selections so far. I was really worried this guy was going to be the mouthpiece of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi. I am encouraged by him keeping Sec Gates and by the rest of his appointments so far.

As for Iraq, the 16 months timetable has been a Democrat platform since 2006, that's one of the reasons they got the majority. Obama used the 16 months repeatedly in debates. Most in the military said it's not even logistically possible to pull it off, so I'm sure Obama was just playing politics. They ALL do. These guys are all politicians at the end of the day.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 47):
Obama seems to have some plans to help change the situation. His plans now had to be adapted to suit the current situation, times change, and so do plans, but his overall message seems to be the same. What we need to hope for is that he can accomplish something. It is going to be a lot hard work, and it won't be today for tomorrow, but I hardly think he is capable (and it is really a capability Smile ) to be worse than Bush as a president.

Times haven't changed that much from the end days of the campaign. Oil was already starting to retreat and the situation in Iraq hasn't changed dramatically either. The only difference is that Obama won the election and now has the freedom to do what he thinks is right.

Like most politicians they all engage in populism. The oil windfall profits tax was a dismal failure in the 1970s, a gimmick just like McCain's gas tax rollback.

It's just politics guys, don't get all pissed off at each other. Just hope that this country doesn't get any worse economically or god forbid on a national security front.

Obama isn't Superman, even cloning JFK, FDR, or Lincoln won't help us if things get any worse...

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