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stasisLAX
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Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:37 am

A California official is warning that the state will run out of money in about two months unless a budget deal is struck. State Controller John Chiang said Monday that his office could be forced to defer billions of dollars in payments or issue IOUs. He says the instability of the banking industry has made borrowing money to bridge the gap an uncertain possibility.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is raising hopes of a budget deal this week. He says he wants to work with Democratic leaders to close a $42 billion shortfall projected through mid-2010. Schwarzenegger says he and lawmakers are making progress on an $18 billion proposal that was passed without Republican support.

Source: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9582CHG0&show_article=1

Two public employee unions on Monday sued Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to block his effort to furlough state workers in a cost-cutting measure as California's treasury runs out of money. Last week, Schwarzenegger issued an executive order to require that all state employees take two unpaid days off each month starting in February. The governor said the measure is needed to conserve cash, with the state budget gap estimated to reach $42 billion a year and a half from now.

Source: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...budget23-2008dec23,0,6770801.story

What a frigging nightmare!  irked 
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
dxing
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:36 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
Two public employee unions on Monday sued Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to block his effort to furlough state workers in a cost-cutting measure as California's treasury runs out of money.

Full pay to the last day, that's the Union creed!

When will it sink into peoples heads that government can and should only do so much.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
victrola
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:57 pm

California government is a joke. You have gerrymandered legislative districts which all but guarantee that districts remain Democratic or Republican forever. Thus only extremists, with no incentive to cooperate and compromise ever get elected. (Hopefully this will be changing soon)

You then have term limits which means that by the time someone has learned the ropes of being an effective legislator, they are termed out. Why anyone is for term limits is beyond me. It is as if you were saying "stop me stop me before I vote for an incumbent. I can't help myself"
If a majority of voters in a district think their representative should be termed out, then they simply have to vote against him next election.

Then we come to the rule where you need a 2/3 majority to pass a budget. This is really stupid. Two thirds majorities should be spared for constitutional changes, not routine business like passing a budget.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:43 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
He says the instability of the banking industry has made borrowing money to bridge the gap an uncertain possibility.

The State has always had a situation where come the end of the year outgoing cash has been greater then incoming. To bridge this period until taxes start rolling in early the following year, the State has successfully placed bonds, or borrowed money on the open market.

This year however, the freeze up of banks and inability to complete a recent bond issuance has created this cash flow crisis.

Quoting Victrola (Reply 2):
You have gerrymandered legislative districts which all but guarantee that districts remain Democratic or Republican forever.

Hopefully not much longer - voters approved a measure proposed by the Governor this election that would take the drawing of districts out of the hands of elected Legislature, and into an independent rotating redistricting commission made up of non elected citizens.

Quoting Victrola (Reply 2):
Why anyone is for term limits is beyond me.

Because nothing good comes out of political dynasties, and elected officials manage get too comfortable and risk inappropriate dealings the longer they remain in office.

Quoting Victrola (Reply 2):
Then we come to the rule where you need a 2/3 majority to pass a budget. This is really stupid.

You need 2/3, because by law (as instituted by voters) anything involved in taxation thankfully needs a 2/3 approval. Otherwise I hate to say the state would be even closer to being a socialist republic if local and state officials needed simply a majority vote to tax away.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
victrola
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:52 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Because nothing good comes out of political dynasties, and elected officials manage get too comfortable and risk inappropriate dealings the longer they remain in office.

It should be up to the voters in a district to decide when their elected representative has gotten too confortable in his office and needs to move on. They have this opportunity every 2 years.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:21 pm

Voters have decided - we voted to enact term limits.

I suggest you review the difficulty faced by people trying to run against incumbents in places that do not have term limits. The system is skewed against these new comers, with incumbents in many ways manage to buy their seats into infinity.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
victrola
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:40 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
Voters have decided - we voted to enact term limits.

I suggest you review the difficulty faced by people trying to run against incumbents in places that do not have term limits. The system is skewed against these new comers, with incumbents in many ways manage to buy their seats into infinity.

Voters have decided to give up their right to decide. If a majority of people in a district believe that an incumbent has been in power too long they can vote against him. Or are you suggesting that people are too stupid to vote for what they want? In spite of all the money that is spent on an election, in the final analysis, the individual voter is still free to mark the box next to the candidate of his choice. Or do we not have free will?

It's interesting that people believe that elected officials should be subject to term limits. However when given the opportunity to vote, they still vote for an incumbent. Maybe they just want term limits for elected officials in other districts and not their own. Or maybe they are just schizophrenic. I, for my part have always voted for whomever I wanted whether they be an incumbent or a challenger.
 
skyservice_330
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:56 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
Last week, Schwarzenegger issued an executive order to require that all state employees take two unpaid days off each month starting in February.

We had a similar situation here in Ontario during the early 90's. NDP Premier Bob Rae, the NDP being on the far left of the political spectrum in Ontario (of the social democrat type), enacted 'Rae Days' as part of his 'Social Contract' with Ontarians which forced public sector employees to work for 12 unpaid days as a cost saving measure.
 
AvObserver
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:13 am

The costs of illegal immigration contribute a lot to this problem but it's too politically incorrect to talk about it. $10.5+ billion now and projected to sharply climb in the future. Yet, governor Arnold can't even talk about it. It's deemed "racist" or "xenophobic" to even discuss its impact. B.S., this is a significant part of the problem, not only in California but nationwide and it MUST be dealt with. Look at these numbers!

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageNavigator/facts/state_data_CA
 
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flyingclrs727
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:37 am

Would that make CA eligible for TARP money?
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:05 am



Quoting FlyingClrs727 (Reply 9):
Would that make CA eligible for TARP money?

If not, it damn well should, along with many other states!
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
KevinL1011
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:52 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
A California official is warning that the state will run out of money in about two months unless a budget deal is struck.

It won't be the first time.

Quoting Victrola (Reply 2):
California government is a joke.

No it's not! It's a train wreck!

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
I suggest you review the difficulty faced by people trying to run against incumbents in places that do not have term limits. The system is skewed against these new comers, with incumbents in many ways manage to buy their seats into infinity.

I suggest Californians are too apathetic to rattle the cages of their elected representatives in Sacramento. It's our own fault. We'd rather spend our time whining about it on an Internet forum than email a complaint to an Assemblyman. This is the reason we needed to enact term limits because nobody is watching these idiots! If more constituents were willing to light fires under their asses, they'd certainly be more concerned about re-election.
474218, Carl, You will be missed.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:25 pm



Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 11):
This is the reason we needed to enact term limits because nobody is watching these idiots!

Be careful what you wish for. We did that in Michigan and they still can't balance the budget. We almost had a shutdown early this year. With term limits you force out the good people who can actually get things done. When times get tough and everyone is reasonably new they have no idea how to get things done when it comes to crunch time. In Michigan there is talk of doing away with term limits.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
QXatFAT
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:58 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
Voters have decided - we voted to enact term limits.

This can work both ways. You have the crappy corrupt people you want out but then you have the good ones that cant stay in because of limits. Term limits are a tough thing. Term limits I think should be there as long as gerrymandering is allowed. Get rid of gerrymandering disctrics and then you can take away term limits. It seems like they go hand in hand.

Quoting Victrola (Reply 2):
You have gerrymandered legislative districts

I absolutly hate gerrymandering. Sure the guy I voted for and have supported is still winning because of it but it is lame to make your own votes instead of earning your votes. First sign of corruption.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 12):
We did that in Michigan and they still can't balance the budget

Eh Michigan has its own problems. When the state cant even afford salt to put on the roads, then you know you have a problem. With me moving from California to Michigan for my 4 years of college I just finished, I never felt more scared for my life then driving on the roads with snow and ice and the state telling me they cant afford salt.

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 11):
We'd rather spend our time whining about it on an Internet forum than email a complaint to an Assemblyman.

Exactly! The people of California, or any state for that matter, always wants to whine about their assemblyman but will not take that to the polls. When it comes time to vote, its not MY assemblyman who is doing bad, its everyone elses. This goes for National Elections as well.
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falstaff
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:34 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 13):
I never felt more scared for my life then driving on the roads with snow and ice and the state telling me they cant afford salt.

It isn't that bad....  cold   cold   cold 

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 13):
Exactly! The people of California, or any state for that matter, always wants to whine about their assemblyman but will not take that to the polls. When it comes time to vote, its not MY assemblyman who is doing bad, its everyone elses. This goes for National Elections as well.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
PPVRA
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:48 pm

Quoting FlyingClrs727 (Reply 9):
Would that make CA eligible for TARP money?

Only if California becomes a Bank Holding Company.

 duck 

[Edited 2008-12-24 15:50:27]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
KevinL1011
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:57 am



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 12):
With term limits you force out the good people who can actually get things done.

You're right. I should not have implied that term limits were "needed". My point is that apathetic Californians do not know or care about how their representatives are voting until there is a problem. Term limits are the lazy man's way to effect change in government. The proper method is to voice your opinion with your elected representatives and as QXatFAT stated, take it to the polls.
The other downside of term limits is that it increases the states pension payroll.
474218, Carl, You will be missed.
 
QXatFAT
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:47 am



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 14):
It isn't that bad

Haha well now that I am back in California, Id say sucks to be you right now haha. Actually I just graduated from my college in Michigan and will miss the snow but not bad enough to move there  Smile

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 16):
My point is that apathetic Californians do not know or care about how their representatives are voting until there is a problem.

 checkmark  How many voters do you think get online to public information to see how they voted? I would say 5% if that. I know that I made sure I knew my Rep. voting record before I voted and made sure that I fully knew Obama's and McCain's voting record before I didnt vote for either one. Californians as well as all Americans should use this amazing thing called the interenet and see how they voted. It might take you up to a hour to read it all up but then you can make a vote that you can actually feel good about and chances are if the public actually cared and searched these things, we would see the changes we wanted in our government. If you put their trust in them just because they are R or D and they will follow those lines, you are sadly mistaken.

California, get that stinkin budget done!

I wish Gov. Arnie would cut their pay until they get the budget again. That would be a good step in the right direction.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
KevinL1011
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:24 am



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 17):
Californians as well as all Americans should use this amazing thing called the intranet and see how they voted.

AND.... Contact them, tell them how you feel, put some heat under their asses.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 17):
I wish Gov. Arnie would cut their pay until they get the budget again.

Impossible, BUT... not giving them any time off will work. Former Gov. Pete Wilson did it back in '98. Threaten them with losing a week at their time share in Cancun and you'll get your budget.

There is so much fiscal waste from the passage of idiotic prepositions by uninformed CA. voters it'll turn you white. For instance, the recent passage of Proposition 2 which guarantees rights for farm animals is ridiculous! California voters think it's necessary to legislate the treatment of chickens and make sure they're unharmed before Colonel Sanders rips their head off. As a Californian and a vegetarian, I'm embarrassed.

This state is totally screwed up due to the voting public and/or the lack thereof. I blame Hollywood and the news media because voters think they are informed on the issues.
474218, Carl, You will be missed.
 
Superfly
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:45 am



Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 18):
There is so much fiscal waste from the passage of idiotic prepositions by uninformed CA. voters it'll turn you white.

So is that what Michael Jackson did?  confused 

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 18):
For instance, the recent passage of Proposition 2 which guarantees rights for farm animals is ridiculous! California voters think it's necessary to legislate the treatment of chickens and make sure they're unharmed before Colonel Sanders rips their head off. As a Californian and a vegetarian, I'm embarrassed.

I voted no on Prop 2 because it sounded too vegetarian/vegan in origin.
It also sounded like an unfunded mandate to farmers that will be passed on to consumers.



In the 1990s, you had politicians pounding their chest boasting about the 3-strikes laws and many 3-strikes laws applied to offenses as minor as driving with expired insurance.  Wow!
The result is a HUGE prison population along with a powerful prison guards union that has seen their pay jump from approx. $15 per hour in 1990 to close to $100,000 a year for the same job by 2000.
Who pays for this?
We do!
There are 3 times more prisons than University of California University campuses.
That is a major problem and major flaw here in California.
Also, property taxes in California are among the lowest in the nation.
None of the politicians in California from either party has to balls to challenge the prison guard's unions and property taxes.
If property taxes here n California were at the same rate as other states, maybe real estate prices wouldn't have shot through the roof here.
Bring back the Concorde
 
KevinL1011
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:03 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
So is that what Michael Jackson did?

He wishes it was that easy.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
I voted no on Prop 2 because it sounded too vegetarian/vegan in origin.

Exactly but it's not the vegetarians who promote this. Rather it's hypocritical carnivores who won't eat what they kill. Most Vegetarians promote abstinence.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
sounded like an unfunded mandate to farmers that will be passed on to consumers.

And encourage farms to leave the state.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
There are 3 times more prisons than University of California University campuses.
That is a major problem and major flaw here in California.

There was also a Proposition to provide drug rehabilitation programs instead of prison for drug violations. Cheaper than cell time AND helps to reduce the demand for illegal drugs. Voted down.
474218, Carl, You will be missed.
 
Superfly
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:14 pm



Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 20):
There was also a Proposition to provide drug rehabilitation programs instead of prison for drug violations. Cheaper than cell time AND helps to reduce the demand for illegal drugs. Voted down.

F--king insane!
I voted yes on that proposition too.

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 20):
Most Vegetarians promote abstinence.

Abstinence is a four letter word in my vocabulary.  Wink
Bring back the Concorde
 
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OA260
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:57 pm

You know when things are bad when they start running Ads over here to go visit you all....
 
QXatFAT
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RE: Could California Be Flat Broke In 2 Months?

Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:30 pm



Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 18):
Contact them, tell them how you feel, put some heat under their asses.

Not just one person either, everyone who agrees with you on the issue. You e-mail or hand write your letters and have them sent and put in there that the particular assymblyman will have a tough time winning his district again if he continues in his ways.

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 18):
the recent passage of Proposition 2 which guarantees rights for farm animals is ridiculous!

 checkmark  nothing more on the ballot made my blood boil like this did. I work in the Animal Nutrition industry and it pisses me off about this prop. My buisness is projected to lose 15% at least of buisness. Who knows beyond that after prices need to be hiked to make up for buisness and then other customers drop out.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
It also sounded like an unfunded mandate to farmers that will be passed on to consumers.

Exactly! But the vegans and veggietarians will not care because they do not eat those meats. Just wait though until those veggietarians go to buy their eggs and see a price hike there because their chickens want their own luxury suit to lay their eggs.

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 20):
And encourage farms to leave the state.

Not just that but close shop all together and sell the land way to developers. Thats what is happening to the valleys vinyards for years now. Sell the land for big time cash. Now it will just happen where the farms are located now.
Don't Tread On Me!

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