dxing
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President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:52 pm

If you had a chance to watch it you had to wonder where that President was during certain events in his administration. While I disagree with his financial and immigration policies I do agree with his defense policies. It was interesting to watch the press conference and then start reading the news reports. How different what he said is portrayed in the news article versus what he actually said. One examply, Mission Accomplished which is probably the most misused picture and interpretation on A.net's non-av forum. First, what one site is reporting:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090112/...p_on_go_pr_wh/bush_news_conference

"And he admitted another miscalculation: Eager to report quick progress after U.S. troops ousted Saddam's government, he declared less than two months after the war started that "in the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed," a claim made under a "Mission Accomplished" banner that turned out to be wildly optimistic. "Clearly, putting 'Mission Accomplished' on an aircraft carrier was a mistake," he said Monday. "It sent the wrong message."

To read that you would get the impression that he clearly admitted that the banner was wrong. But if you go to the text of the news conference you get a totally different take.

"Q And I'm not trying to play "gotcha," but I wonder, when you look back over the long arc of your presidency, do you think, in retrospect, that you have made any mistakes? And if so, what is the single biggest mistake that you may have made?

THE PRESIDENT: Gotcha. I have often said that history will look back and determine that which could have been done better, or, you know, mistakes I made. Clearly putting a "Mission Accomplished" on a aircraft carrier was a mistake. It sent the wrong message. We were trying to say something differently, but nevertheless, it conveyed a different message. Obviously, some of my rhetoric has been a mistake. "


Which is what some of us have been saying all along. The banner itself was not wrong, the carrier and it's crew had accomplished their mission. But the left took it as though everyone thought the war was over which was not ever the case for had it been we would have started to draw down immediately.

It will be interesting to see how the press treats the new President after the honeymoon is over.

It was also interesting to hear how the President, when asked about America supposed standing overseas, he reiterated my complaint some other countries which I've highlighted:

Q One of the major objectives that the incoming administration has talked frequently about is restoring America's moral standing in the world. And many of the allies of the new President -- I believe that the President-elect himself has talked about the damage that Gitmo, that harsh interrogation tactics that they consider torture, how going to war in Iraq without a U.N. mandate have damaged America's moral standing in the world. I'm wondering basically what is your reaction to that? Do you think that is that something that the next President needs to worry about?

THE PRESIDENT: I strongly disagree with the assessment that our moral standing has been damaged. It may be damaged amongst some of the elite, but people still understand America stands for freedom, that America is a country that provides such great hope.

You go to Africa, you ask Africans about America's generosity and compassion; go to India, and ask about, you know, America's -- their view of America. Go to China and ask. Now, no question parts of Europe have said that we shouldn't have gone to war in Iraq without a mandate, but those are a few countries. Most countries in Europe listened to what 1441 said, which is disclose, disarm or face serious consequences.

Most people take those words seriously. Now, some countries didn't -- even though they might have voted for the resolution. I disagree with this assessment that, you know, people view America in a dim light. I just don't agree with that. And I understand that Gitmo has created controversies. But when it came time for those countries that were criticizing America to take some of those -- some of those detainees, they weren't willing to help out. And so, you know, I just disagree with the assessment, Mike.

I agree with the Presidents response 100%.

I say good for him. I'm sure that in his retirement, since he is only 62, he will find something rewarding and intersting to keep himself occupied with. I look forward to the day I can visit his library and museum and hope to have a chance to meet him someday. Good luck and best wishes Mr. President.
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Mir
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:26 pm

Haven't watched the conference yet, so I'll have to do that tonight, but in the meantime:

Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
To read that you would get the impression that he clearly admitted that the banner was wrong.

Not really. The passage you quoted says that the President admitted that the banner was a bad idea (which it was, as was the rest of the whole stunt).

At worst, you could say that the article was making the point that the "Mission Accomplished" banner was itself wrong (which could also be argued, depending on what you view the mission as). But nowhere does that passage say that the president himself said that the text of the banner was incorrect.

-Mir
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Yellowstone
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:33 pm



Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
THE PRESIDENT:...Now, no question parts of Europe have said that we shouldn't have gone to war in Iraq without a mandate, but those are a few countries. Most countries in Europe listened to what 1441 said, which is disclose, disarm or face serious consequences.

That's complete and utter BS. Take a look at this map, which someone put together for the Wikipedia article on the international response to the Iraq war:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/36/State_positions_Iraq_war.png
Orange represents countries that participated in the initial invasion, yellow represents countries that supported the war at its outset, and blue represents those that opposed it. There are way more than "a few countries" in that latter category. 54 countries have protested the war formally and officially, including the seven most populous countries on the planet (not counting the US). A Gallup poll of ten European countries (Spain, France, Luxembourg, Portugal, Germany, Denmark, Finland, the UK, Ireland, and the Netherlands) found that support for a non-UN-mandated invasion was less than 10 percent. The same poll found that, except for the UK, a majority of responders in each country believed their country should not support a war against Iraq if the US went ahead with it. Bush is delusional if he believes his war had any sort of broad-based international support.
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Arrow
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:13 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 2):
Take a look at this map, which someone put together for the Wikipedia article on the international response to the Iraq war:

One of the biggest orange pieces on the map is Greenland, population about 57,000. I guess it's technically part of Denmark, but the visual distortion, combined with that of Alaska (pop. about 700,000) is pretty dramatic.

Bush (and his ardent supporters) is deluding himself if he thinks he had a broad global support for the Iraq misadventure. And I don't buy this "elites" argument. Poll after poll in those countries often showed that the people were actually more vociferously opposed to Bush's policies than their government. Maybe ask Tony Blair about that right now.

Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
Which is what some of us have been saying all along. The banner itself was not wrong, the carrier and it's crew had accomplished their mission. But the left took it as though everyone thought the war was over which was not ever the case for had it been we would have started to draw down immediately.

In other words, it was a feeble attempt at spin, and it backfired badly. So what?
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
dxing
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:13 am



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 2):
Orange represents countries that participated in the initial invasion, yellow represents countries that supported the war at its outset, and blue represents those that opposed it. There are way more than "a few countries" in that latter category.

In Europe? When I blow up the map the numbers are pretty even orange versus blue. As a matter of fact I see a majority in orange and yellow.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 2):
One of the biggest orange pieces on the map is Greenland

Also one of the biggest blue pieces is Russia. How many people live in Siberia?

Quoting Arrow (Reply 3):
In other words, it was a feeble attempt at spin, and it backfired badly. So what?

If you are saying a feeble attempt at spin on the lefts part you're correct. If the correct interpretation had been applied then it's not spin as the President was alluding to. The banner was there for the carriers actions, only the left and left leaning press chose to present it as something else.
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baroque
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:25 am

Op cit [i]He also cited the abuses found to have been committed by members of the U.S. military at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq as "a huge disappointment."[i/]

Aha, a disappointment and HUGE. Either he ordered what went on there, or he was derelict in his duty to ensure it did not happen. The systemic nature of those activities at Gitmo, Abu Graib and Bagram suggest most likely the former.

So a reasonable interpretation of the disappointment is that he was disappointed to be found out.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:28 am

Dubyah will also be giving a televised "farewell address":

"After eight stressful years on the job, President Bush will deliver a farewell address to the nation on network television at 8 p.m. ET on Thursday, the White House announced. The address will be 10 to 15 minutes long, from the East Room of the White House."

Source: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17367.html

Buh-bye W!  wave 
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Mir
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:57 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 4):
If the correct interpretation had been applied then it's not spin as the President was alluding to. The banner was there for the carriers actions, only the left and left leaning press chose to present it as something else.

While the work of the men and women of the Abraham Lincoln was certainly important and appreciated, it seems to be pretty extreme to go to the trouble of landing there in the jet just to give the crew of that particular ship a pat on the back for that particular mission. That ship wasn't the only carrier in the Gulf (IIRC, the Harry Truman was there also) - why didn't the other ones get a speech from the president? I'm sure the ground troops would have liked their own speech as well (obviously there are more logistical issues there).

The Bush people are masters of swaying public perception. That's not a criticism - they're politicians, so it's to be expected. But in light of that fact, I find it very hard to believe that none of them realized what sort of message the banner would send. The allowed him to make the speech with that banner in the background.

And even if the banner was intended solely for that ship, trying to spin it to blame the left for misinterpretation is pathetic and childish. You can't mangle a statement like that and then just throw up your hands and walk away from the responsibility. They screwed it up, and rightfully took the hit for it.

-Mir
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Elite
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:33 am

President Bush isn't such a bad guy. Yes, he made mistakes, and goofed up more than usual, but the amount of criticism that he received is sometimes disproportionate. People are always quick to jump on W's case but reluctant to give him any credit.

I won't be sad to see President Bush go and President-elect Obama come - because it seems like there is a lot of hope on President-elect Obama and I'll admit I'm sold - I'm slightly more hopeful too. But what is sad is that so many people deserted the President and gave him no support at all for whatever he did, whether it was right or wrong. I cannot say he was a good President, but I can say for sure that he doesn't rank as one of America's worst Presidents of all time that so many people believe he is. No way.
 
BN747
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:33 am

Analysis: Bush legacy — grim times, gloomy nation
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bush_s_legacy_analysis

"I've been a wartime president," he said. "I've dealt with two economic recessions now. I've had, you know, a lot of serious challenges. What matters to me is that I did not compromise my soul to be a popular guy."

So let history judge, Bush says.

The country already has. "

Yes, the MAJORITY country certainly has... he's a complete and utter failure.
Even exception made for the Iraq Invasion fiasco, the man has been the worst and most incompetent leader for the top tier of powerful nations. If this guy was the leader of Zimbabwe (or any 3rd World nation)...we'd have a field day making fun of him as we do Mugabe and Chavez. At least the other are very capable of articulating their viewpoints no matter how provocative. As a person, Reagan had Alzheimers...I have no idea what Bush's excuse is.

BN747
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ltbewr
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:53 am

From what I saw of this press conference on the news and with the commentary about it, I found it to be very disturbing. GWB is in such denial of the mistakes he and his administration made that it suggests perhaps he suffers from serious mental health problems. Since the day he took office in a highly disputed election, I have had nothing but contempt for him and his policies which contributed to the moral and financial crises of the USA today. While I do have significant reservations as to Obama and he faces huge issues that are the product of Democrats as well, I will fell much better with him in office and GWB in retirement, hopefully someday tried for his crimes in office.
 
baroque
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:11 pm



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 10):
GWB is in such denial of the mistakes he and his administration made that it suggests perhaps he suffers from serious mental health problems.

That seems eminently fair. Possibly a little on the kindly side even!

If the defenders of the Mission A banner care to listen, he does admit it was a mistake although it seems also that he has forgotten what the explanation for that blue was and goes on to demonstrate he is still profoundly confused:
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...on-accomplished-was-a-mistake.aspx

Look, I have often said that history will look back and determine that which could have been done better or, you know, mistakes I made. Clearly, putting a "mission accomplished" on a (sic) aircraft carrier was a mistake. It sent the wrong message. We were trying to say something differently, but, nevertheless, it conveyed a different message. Obviously, some of my rhetoric has been a mistake.
 
seb146
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:07 pm

Listening to this press conference, it sounds like those people who go out and murder someone for a stupid reason, then, in court, start crying and apologizing. You know: they do something they know is wrong or illegal and worry about the consequenses later; hope to play on people's sympathy when judgment comes. I know that sounds harsh and I will be ripped a new one, but think about it: Katrina: He went to parties instead of overriding local authorities. Sept 11: he was reading "My Pet Goat" instead of exusing himself, then made the announcment in front of the school children that 3000 innocents had been murdered. Landing on the Abraham Lincoln off San Diego with the "MA" banner and just now thinks it was a bad idea. Abu Graib and Guantanimo could have been headed off by him, but he did nothing.
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dxing
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:25 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
That ship wasn't the only carrier in the Gulf

Was it the only ship coming back to port at that time?

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
I'm sure the ground troops would have liked their own speech as well (obviously there are more logistical issues there).

How many times has he been there? At Thanksgiving, Christmas?

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
They screwed it up, and rightfully took the hit for it.

Fraid not. The left and some late night comedians decided to have fun with it.

Quoting Elite (Reply 8):
I'm slightly more hopeful too.

Hopeful at what? That he will stop lowering the bar for himself now that he is elected?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 9):
Yes, the MAJORITY country certainly has... he's a complete and utter failure.

Guess that's why he was re-elected by a majority.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 10):
GWB is in such denial of the mistakes he and his administration made that it suggests perhaps he suffers from serious mental health problems.

Tell me, where is Iraq today? Are troop withdrawls planned? How much of the security has been turned over to Iraqi security forces? Is anyone talking about being there in force for a decade or more anymore? How about Gitmo, has he tried to close it? Of course as he said, those that complain the most are the least willing to help make that happen.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 11):
If the defenders of the Mission A banner care to listen, he does admit it was a mistake although it seems also that he has forgotten what the explanation for that blue was and goes on to demonstrate he is still profoundly confused

Doesn't sound confused at all. What is confusing is a campaign promise saying:

"As President, I will close Guantánamo, reject the Military Commissions Act, and adhere to the Geneva Conventions."

8/1/07, The Woodrow Wilson Center, Washington D.C.


But as his time comes to serve as President we get:

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/Economy/Story?id=6618199&page=2

STEPHANOPOULOS: You also agreed on Guantanamo when you say you want to shut it down. You say you're still going to shut it down. Is it turning out to be harder than you expected, will you get that done in the first 100 days?

OBAMA: It is more difficult than I think a lot of people realize and we are going to get it done but part of the challenge that you have is that you have a bunch of folks that have been detained, many of whom who may be very dangerous who have not been put on trial or have not gone through some adjudication. And some of the evidence against them may be tainted even though it's true. And so how to balance creating a process that adheres to rule of law, habeas corpus, basic principles of Anglo American legal system, by doing it in a way that doesn't result in releasing people who are intent on blowing us up.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So not necessarily first 100 days.

OBAMA: That's a challenge. I think it's going to take some time and our legal teams are working in consultation with our national security apparatus as we speak to help design exactly what we need to do. But I don't want to be ambiguous about this. We are going to close Guantanamo and we are going to make sure that the procedures we set up are ones that abide by our constitution. That is not only the right thing to do but it actually has to be part of our broader national security strategy because we will send a message to the world that we are serious about our values.


Sounds confusing to me, especially since his team has been leaking that while Gitmo will be closed all they are really going to do is move the detainees to a different location that will have the same security measures as they are in now. What's the quote? A rose by any other name?

Even more confusing:

OBAMA: For example, Vice President Cheney I think continues to defend what he calls extraordinary measures or procedures when it comes to interrogations and from my view waterboarding is torture. I have said that under my administration we will not torture.

But then goes on to say:

STEPHANOPOULOS: So no more special CIA program?

OBAMA: I'm not going to lay out a particular program because again, I thought that Dick Cheney's advice was good, which is let's make sure we know everything that's being done.


So easy to run for President, so hard to govern as President is what I think someone is starting to realize. Either that or he was very confused during the campaign and didn't realize what he was saying.
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Arrow
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:05 pm

Quoting DXing (Reply 13):
Fraid not. The left and some late night comedians decided to have fun with it.

There's a fundamental tenet here that has gone right over your head -- although I'm sure, in your case, that if it was aimed squarely between your eyes, you'd duck.

That whole "mission accomplished" episode was manufactured by the spin doctors to portray Bush as a victorious leader. Fly the guy onto an aircraft carrier full of cheering, exuberant sailors; get him, in his flight suit, on a podium on the flight deck to deliver a set piece with all that cheering as a backdrop, and -- most important -- make sure the national news media are there with their lights and cameras.

I can guarantee you that in the immediate aftermath of that inspiring episode, there was euphoria in the ranks of those spin doctors -- and that would include the unexpected "mission accomplished" banner. What a lovely accident that was! For several days I'm sure they basked in the success of that moment, and didn't for one minute consider that it might backfire.

It was only in the longer term aftermath that the "mission accomplished" banner became a liability as the media began to turn their "spin" around on them -- flashing that little bit of theatre every time a new casualty count came in. Over and over again. There's nothing "left" about it. The media was rubbing Bush's nose in his own excesses. Isn't it funny how, in hindsight, he thought the banner was a bad idea because it portrayed the wrong message. Bullshit. It conveyed exactly the message they were hoping for -- but it backfired big-time when the message was shown to be false.

He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

[Edited 2009-01-13 11:22:42]
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luv2fly
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:50 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 6):
Dubyah will also be giving a televised "farewell address":

"After eight stressful years on the job, President Bush will deliver a farewell address to the nation on network television at 8 p.m. ET on Thursday, the White House announced. The address will be 10 to 15 minutes long, from the East Room of the White House."

There is 15 minutes we will never get back.

Quoting DXing (Reply 13):
Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
That ship wasn't the only carrier in the Gulf

Was it the only ship coming back to port at that time?

It has been reported that the ship was kept out to sea a whole extra day to pull off this stunt.
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:19 pm



Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
where that President was

-
whatever, he now solves at least ONE problem ---- he goes into retirement

Quoting Arrow (Reply 3):
Bush (and his ardent supporters) is deluding himself if he thinks he had a broad global support for the Iraq misadventure. And I don't buy this "elites" argument.

-
Some of the "elite", at least among rightwing politicians and economic leaders, DID support the GWB crew, but the basis, for instance in Italy, never did.
 
RussianJet
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 4):
Also one of the biggest blue pieces is Russia. How many people live in Siberia?

Tens of millions, unlike Greenland which has less than one hundred thousand.

Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
Final News Conference

Unless it involves an apology to the world, I'm not interested.
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Aaron747
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:24 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 4):
Also one of the biggest blue pieces is Russia. How many people live in Siberia?

One of the few yellow countries in Asia is Japan. Bush is only counting his support from other governments - popular support for Iraq is quite another thing. The Iraq war has had between 70 and 85% disapproval among Japanese in newspaper opinion polling for as long as I've been watching here. The aid missions to Iraq have been among the reasons the Prime Minister's seat has changed hands three times during Bush's tenure.

Bush is simply not in touch with what most of the world thinks about where the reputation of the US has gone in the last 8 years. In a recent opinion poll, 60-some percent of Japanese said they don't feel the US is "trustworthy". That's a staggering indictment from a reliable ally.
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luv2fly
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:49 pm



You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:35 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 15):
There is 15 minutes we will never get back.



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 17):
Unless it involves an apology to the world, I'm not interested.

Ah, but we can throw our shoes (or at least bedroom slippers) at the television in protest!  duck 
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RussianJet
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:38 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 20):
Ah, but we can throw our shoes (or at least bedroom slippers) at the television in protest! duck

I think we should have a new smiley icon for shoe throwing.  Smile
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na
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:54 pm

Blablabla, Imadenomistakesandeverythingwassodifficult.

That he blatantly lies when saying that the US didnt loose a good deal of its once good image abroad is a sign he has no sense for reality. No president ever made the US look so bad as this Texan, no one ever ran it down so fast and so deep. Thats the bare truth.

Good riddance, Cowboy! May you likeness never raise to power again.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:01 am



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 21):
I think we should have a new smiley icon for shoe throwing.

I completely agree! Let's start a petition to DM management to add that icon!  idea 
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:45 am

Guess what.....No shoes were allowed inside the conference  wink 
Out here GWB found favour by people who were keen on the India-US Civil nuclear deal,as GWB did make an effort for this.

regds
MEL
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dxing
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:27 am



Quoting Arrow (Reply 14):
It was only in the longer term aftermath that the "mission accomplished" banner became a liability as the media began to turn their "spin" around on them --

Fraid not, it was being ridiculed by the left before it was over with.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 17):
Tens of millions, unlike Greenland which has less than one hundred thousand.

Yet even with western Russia and its big cities included you only get and 8.4 population density versus Greenlands 0.26. If you take away western Russia and the big cities that drops to 3 people per sqaure kilometer which is not much more than Greenland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia

Siberia has population density of about three people per square kilometer

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 17):
Unless it involves an apology to the world, I'm not interested.

Why in the world would he need to do that? Has some goat herder in Mongolia somehow been harmed by his policies?

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 18):
The Iraq war has had between 70 and 85% disapproval among Japanese in newspaper opinion polling for as long as I've been watching here.

Any war faces an uphill battle to get popular support in Japan since they know full well what happens when you lose.
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baroque
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:32 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 25):
Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 18):
The Iraq war has had between 70 and 85% disapproval among Japanese in newspaper opinion polling for as long as I've been watching here.

Any war faces an uphill battle to get popular support in Japan since they know full well what happens when you lose.

W should have listened more carefully to the Japanese then!
 
Mir
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:54 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 13):
Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
That ship wasn't the only carrier in the Gulf

Was it the only ship coming back to port at that time?

Might have been. But then why didn't the others get their own ceremony when they came back to port?

Quoting DXing (Reply 13):
Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
I'm sure the ground troops would have liked their own speech as well (obviously there are more logistical issues there).

How many times has he been there? At Thanksgiving, Christmas?

Fair point.

Quoting DXing (Reply 13):
Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
They screwed it up, and rightfully took the hit for it.

Fraid not. The left and some late night comedians decided to have fun with it.

Because the Administration chose to give them the material. The speech itself would have been a non-issue had he simply given it from the White House. Instead, he chose to make a big PR stunt out of it. And when PR stunts blow up in your face, you tend to attract the attention of the satirists.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
luv2fly
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:57 am

A reason to get up in the morning.



You can cut the irony with a knife
 
RussianJet
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:45 pm

Quoting DXing (Reply 25):
Yet even with western Russia and its big cities included you only get and 8.4 population density versus Greenlands 0.26. If you take away western Russia and the big cities that drops to 3 people per sqaure kilometer which is not much more than Greenland.

You're right, relative population densities clearly show that Russia is no more significant in world affairs than Greenland.   

Quoting DXing (Reply 25):
Why in the world would he need to do that? Has some goat herder in Mongolia somehow been harmed by his policies?

Hmm, Mongolia. Well, it's fully possible you know, or at least one thing is probably true - Bush has made that herder like the USA much less than he used to, pretty much like he has for the rest of the planet.

[Edited 2009-01-15 15:58:30]
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dxing
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:05 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 27):
But then why didn't the others get their own ceremony when they came back to port?

Perhaps they did but since the aircraft carrier is the center of any carrier battle group it is where the major events for the group are held.

Quoting Mir (Reply 27):
Because the Administration chose to give them the material.

Because the comedians and left chose to take a sign of appreciation and turn it into comedic material.

Quoting Mir (Reply 27):
Instead, he chose to make a big PR stunt out of it.

I doubt the sailors, marines, and airmen on the carrier thought it was a PR stunt.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 29):
You're right, relative population densities clearly show that Russia is less significant in world affairs than Greenland.

You're the one who brought up population, I was remarking on an earlier post comparing landmass size. Now you don't like the way the numbers turn out and you want to blame me for showing you the comparison? Guess you're out of wind.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 29):
pretty much like he has for the rest of the planet.

Yes, I forgot how much people don't want to move here anymore. Guess the illegals from south of the border haven't gotten the word yet.  sarcastic 
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
RussianJet
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:20 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 30):
You're the one who brought up population

That is not correct:

Quoting Arrow (Reply 3):
One of the biggest orange pieces on the map is Greenland, population about 57,000.

But in any case, land mass, population, whatever - a huge number of people and countries didn't want that stupid war, and they still don't.

Quoting DXing (Reply 30):
Yes, I forgot how much people don't want to move here anymore. Guess the illegals from south of the border haven't gotten the word yet. sarcastic

Illegal immigration is no indicator at all of how high a regard other countries have for the USA. It might well show that significant numbers from Mexico and other countries are desperate to make money, but that's about it. People can kid themselves all they like about how Bush has damaged America's reputation and standing in the world, but the damage is very real indeed.
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BN747
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:29 am

I'm typing this as this 'sorry excuse for a leader' speaks...

..how dare he speak of human suffering then acknowledge a Katrina victim who over came the odds when the the other day he was bragging about the '30, 000' plucked off rooftops (where the hell he got that number I'll never know)...when 3 times that number of AMERICANS and American Children had to sit, starve while crammed next to dead and rotting corpses at the Superdome after Katrina for 3-4 days straight with no food, no water and no help insight! When the most helpless of Americans needed help the very most..we saw exactly how dedicated and concerned he was -- AWOL! Eating birthday cake with John McCain. Yeah, that's the mindset-memory of George W. Bush I'll always remember (among a host of other things).

How this last 8 years happened I will never know, I take that back..okay, we all know it was stolen in HIS brother's state (Florida 2000). But thank heavens it is finally coming to end and I hope like hell some trials begin. Iraq was never any kind of threat to our nation..only to Iran (and they couldn't even get that right - neither could. Our 4000+ dead US servicemen deserve a just accounting..a Saddam-Free Iraq is not what defense of our nation is about. Bush said 'truth and Justice' triumphs all...if that's the case, then he must answer for LYING to the American people and destroying those 4000+ families over his playing war in the wrong damn country. I just hope 'we the people' do not "reap what we sow" from what this man has done. No matter how he wants to been seen as misunderstood over this..he was having fun doing it (esp. the WMD jokes) ..when it was sending chills down many of our spines.

As I said above, were this fool , this very same exact man the leader of ANY other nation on earth... everyone on this board esp. Americans..would be ripping out jokes about him in every possible way and every single day.

BN747

[Edited 2009-01-15 17:33:50]
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:35 am

I shattered my flat-screen television by repeatedly throwing shoes at the idiot-in-chief.  duck 
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
luv2fly
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:53 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 33):
I shattered my flat-screen television by repeatedly throwing shoes at the idiot-in-chief.

I was thinking the same thing. Where was a shoe thrower when we really needed on.

I do have to say after watching him speak, what eight years was he channeling.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
dxing
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:06 am



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 31):
Illegal immigration is no indicator at all of how high a regard other countries have for the USA.



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 31):
but the damage is very real indeed.

Really, please name which country refuses to deal with us on any level that didn't prior to this administration. This same kind of foolishness has been said before and it wasn't anymore true then than it is now.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 33):



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 34):

As usual, can't argue the facts so make fun of the man.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
luv2fly
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:41 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 35):
Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 33):




Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 34):


As usual, can't argue the facts so make fun of the man.

I can't talk for SasisLAX though myself yes unlike you I can see his faults and mistakes as they tend to over shadow any good that he brought to the table. And save yourself from typing how I fail to see what my party does as I do, I am not guilty of wearing the Republican goggles.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:49 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 35):
As usual, can't argue the facts so make fun of the man.

As a long-time registered Libertarian, I cannot excuse what Dubyah has done to harm civil liberties of Americans - FISA is just one example.  vomit 
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
BN747
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:03 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 35):

As usual, can't argue the facts so make fun of the man.

Here are a few memorable facts...

In addition to not leading the charge when a major American City was devastated (New Orleans) and needed help ASAP!

He lead an Administration that 'exposed on of it's very own CIA Agents in order to keep the drums beating for an invasion of nation with no reason whatsoever! Save the WMD malarky for those who don't know better.

He lead an Administration that beat it's chest over America's war in Afghanistan on the body of an exceptional American who made the ultimate sacrifice for his country, giving up making millions of easy dollars a year -- to serve his country (Pat Tillman)..when they knew within minutes, it was a friendly fire (murder actually)...yet Bush Inc stole the opportunity to spin the lie of a heroic soldier going down in a blaze of gunfire with the enemy..and knew it was a lie as they were mapping the strategy to play off his death.

Iraq, Supporting the selling of the largest US ports.airports to Dubai, Ashcroft, Harriet Myers, Alberto Gonzalez, etc and other 1st class incompetents..who were pals. And that's just starters...

All of this is to be remembered and never forgotten...so that such an unqualified, ignorant, incompetent hick ... can never occupy 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.....ever again.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:37 am



Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
Here are a few memorable facts...

Interesting what you call facts...

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
In addition to not leading the charge when a major American City was devastated (New Orleans) and needed help ASAP!

Where are the facts here? Here's one - Blaming the President or the federal government is like blaming the mayor that your babysitter didn't show up. He's got bigger fish to fry. The job of preparing a city for a hurricane is on city, county and state authorities, who dropped the ball. They procrastinated in requesting federal assistance, which was available (but has to be asked for by the state, by law). And as for the Superdome you mentioned earlier, even the President did not have the authority to mobilize all those flooded buses we saw completely unused by an incompetant city government.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
He lead an Administration that 'exposed on of it's very own CIA Agents in order to keep the drums beating for an invasion of nation with no reason whatsoever!

A CIA employee, not an agent. And her hubby was a dishonest fink, if you read the report (I have - he lied through his teeth). And lastly, the person who ratted her out was Richard Armitage at the State Department, who was an example of the out-of-control State Department under Colin Powell.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
He lead an Administration that beat it's chest over America's war in Afghanistan on the body of an exceptional American who made the ultimate sacrifice for his country, giving up making millions of easy dollars a year -- to serve his country (Pat Tillman)..when they knew within minutes, it was a friendly fire (murder actually)...yet Bush Inc stole the opportunity to spin the lie of a heroic soldier going down in a blaze of gunfire with the enemy..and knew it was a lie as they were mapping the strategy to play off his death.

Did you know that around around a quarter of battlefield deaths in WWI and WWII were the result of friendly fire? This is nothing new, and traditionally the memory of those brave men are included as those who died in combat, unless it's some sort of intentional fragging.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
Iraq

A nation on the way to becoming the first democracy in the Persian Gulf. Oh yeah, a real failure in your eyes, I'm sure.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
Supporting the selling of the largest US ports.airports to Dubai

Paranoia, anayone?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
Ashcroft, Harriet Myers, Alberto Gonzalez, etc and other 1st class incompetents

Obama's nominations have included that many dishonest and incompetant persons already, and he hasn't even taken office yet.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
All of this is to be remembered and never forgotten...so that such an unqualified, ignorant, incompetent hick ... can never occupy 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.....ever again.

From what I've seen, Bush is a hell of a lot smarter than you. Of course he's made mistakes, as has every president. But he has been honest and acted with integrity the whole 8 years, unlike some. I think your attitude comes from self-loathing and the need to feel superior to an easy target - one who is hated by all your friends.

"What the right is experiencing at the moment is a phenomenon called “cultural para-stimuli.” You can read all about it in Tom Wolfe’s wonderful novel I Am Charlotte Simmons. It’s sort of like peer pressure on steroids. It was discovered by Nobel Laureate Victor Ransome Starling, who found that when he surrounded normal cats with cats whose behavior had been bizarrely altered by brain surgery, the normal cats began acting like the crazy cats all around them."

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ak...009/01/14/why-we-fight/#more-19257
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
EZEIZA
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:44 am

I just heard the speech ... pathetic to say the least. The only thing that was true was that there have been no terrorist attacks on US soil since 9/11 ... but considering their hadn't been too many before either, I wouldn't consider that an accomplishment, but rather a screw up that it happened in the first place.
All the rest was a load of BS, and he obviously forgot to mention a few things.
"The world is a safer place" or something like that .. yeah right
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
EZEIZA
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:48 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):
The job of preparing a city for a hurricane is on city, county and state authorities,

True, but the relief efforts of a devastaded city is federal responsability

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):
Of course he's made mistakes, as has every president. But he has been honest and acted with integrity the whole 8 years, unlike some

Honest? are talking about the same guy? What was honest in the reasoning behind Iraq? Every reasoning he gave for the war proved to be a lie, and they made Powell BS in front of the entire UN claiming the sattelite images were of missile sites where WMD's were being prepared. How is that honest? Thousands of deaths happened because of his honesty.
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:05 am

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 41):
True, but the relief efforts of a devastaded city is federal responsability

No it isn't. It's a local responsibility, unless the Governor asks for Federal help, which she neglected to do. As I recall, Bush actually requested her to do so before the storm but she did not want to.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 41):
Honest? are talking about the same guy? What was honest in the reasoning behind Iraq? Every reasoning he gave for the war proved to be a lie,

Please, learn the difference between a lie and being misled (or making a mistake, if you prefer). For those with selective memory, EVERYONE at the time, particular every government, every intelligence agency, believed Iraq had WMDs. The ONLY disagreement was that Bush had no confidence that the UN would be able to do anything about it, while others believed UN inspection teams would be able to find them and remove them.

In spite of all the facile accusations, nobody has offered the slightest shred of proof that Bush lied about Iraq.

[Edited 2009-01-15 20:09:54]
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
cairo
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:25 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):
A nation on the way to becoming the first democracy in the Persian Gulf.

at what cost?

This is a question of priorities - Iraq was no threat to the USA. The war is costing 2 to 3 trillion dollars. 2-3 Trillion! The alternatives were immense and could have changed America forever.

The good news is that Bush followers won't be able to simply say, "I'm against abortion, I love guns and hate gays," and be able to win an election anymore....the NASCAR belt was marginilized in 2008, hopefully once and for all.

Cairo
 
WunalaYann
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:05 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 4):
Also one of the biggest blue pieces is Russia. How many people live in Siberia?

More than 142 million people live in Russia and the Trans-Siberian corridor is populated all the way to Vladivostock.

Australia is the second biggest orange after the US but we are only 20 million. Yet Sydney hosted the world's largest anti-war demonstrations in early 2003 and support for the war has been, um, *scratches chin, thinks, tries to remember*, oh, that's right, it has NEVER been there.  Smile

Quoting DXing (Reply 4):
In Europe? When I blow up the map the numbers are pretty even orange versus blue. As a matter of fact I see a majority in orange and yellow.

Yellow means that these countries eventually realised their mistakes. Therefore talking about broad support for the war in Europe is simply incorrect. And Yellowstone's section about popular polls will tell you exactly what people thought (and still think).

The case of Spain is quite telling. Massive popular opposition to the war, stupid/arm-twisted government went ahead with Iraq disaster, government ousted in the very next following elections, with 200 dead civilians in Madrid for good measure.

Quoting DXing (Reply 25):

Arguing about a country's density with regards to invading Iraq is pointless. As I said, Australia is one of the least dense countries on Earth and yet, much to my chagrin, we went ahead with that human and moral disaster called the invasion of Iraq.  Smile
 
BN747
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:11 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):

Where are the facts here? Here's one - Blaming the President or the federal government is like blaming the mayor that your babysitter didn't show up. He's got bigger fish to fry.

Yeah, like flying ALL THE WAY from Washington DC 1900 miles west passing MSY just to attend a fund raiser and party with John McCain and eat cake while a MAJOR American city lay in ruins.

Your assessemnt of 'Bush having more important things to do' things to do while a major American is obliterated and it's citizens crying out for help...is akin to you seeing a kid get hit by car and lying in the street (with others cars approaching)...and instead of help, you stop others and say .."Wait...nobody move! See if he asks for help, first!"


....yeah, BIGGER fish to fry. Anyone reading your answer there has surely must think you insane.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):
A CIA employee, not an agent. And her hubby was a dishonest fink, if you read the report (I have - he lied through his teeth). And lastly, the
[quote=Dreadnought,reply=39]person who ratted her out was Richard Armitage at the State Department, who was an example of the out-of-control State Department under Colin Powell.

1) Her cover was blown by it's own gov't - with petty intent! 2) Whether she's active or not employee/agent whatever. Her uncloaking had disasterous after the fact to those in other countries who could be identified with. And in countries where nearly all people are non-whites it is very easy to remember who was paling around with a 'blond pretty American chick....'

...Wilson lied only to you. To everyone else, he was spot on, the whole Brit intell of Iraq trying to buy yellow cake uranium WAS proven false as Wilson said.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):

Did you know that around around a quarter of battlefield deaths in WWI and WWII were the result of friendly fire?

Way to go trying shift the focus champ...address my comment, the trumpeting of his death in order to whip up War fervor when they knew full well he was murdered by one of his own men. That is deception at it most evil worse! A massive lie in the hope that no one would find out the truth...and they did, Bush's very gov't fought the dead American Hero's family tooth & nail to stop them from getting to the truth. Yeah, real admirable quality there-

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):
A nation on the way to becoming the first democracy in the Persian Gulf. Oh yeah, a real failure in your eyes, I'm sure.

Dream on, pal...dream on. Please volunteer to help out in the next life-costing escapade over absolutely nothing.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):
From what I've seen, Bush is a hell of a lot smarter than you.

That'd be worth a cold can of parrot pi$$ if came from someone else. But since it didn't..it isn't worth that.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):
But he has been honest and acted with integrity the whole 8 years, unlike some.



That statement right there speaks for itself.....get help dude, fast.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):
I think your attitude comes from self-loathing and the need to feel superior to an easy target - one who is hated by all your friends.

And we all see where your thinking has lead you... let's hope it isn't contagious.

A momento that should hang on every household wall...
http://mtblog.vanityfair.com/online/...s/2008/12/30/BushGraphic12-30.html

Answers all controversies surrounding the name Bush.

[Edited 2009-01-15 22:38:51]
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Mir
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:15 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 30):
Perhaps they did but since the aircraft carrier is the center of any carrier battle group it is where the major events for the group are held.

So where was the big presidential speech on the Truman when it and its group came back to port? It only happened a couple of weeks later.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
RussianJet
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:49 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 35):
Really, please name which country refuses to deal with us on any level that didn't prior to this administration

Nice change of focus there. I never said anything about countries 'refusing to deal' with the USA. I have said, correctly, that the international reputation of the USA has taken a serious battering during the Bush years, and anyone that thinks otherwise is either seriously deluded or never looks outside of their own neighbourhood, never mind country. Sorry, speak to people from almost any country and you are likely to hear the same thing - people hate the guy and has seriously lowered the USA's standing in their eyes. If one doesn't care about that, then fine, that's different - but let's not be silly and pretend the whole world loves him when the exact opposite is true. Good riddance.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
Toulouse
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:36 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 25):
Yet even with western Russia and its big cities included you only get and 8.4 population density versus Greenlands 0.26. If you take away western Russia and the big cities that drops to 3 people per sqaure kilometer which is not much more than Greenland.

May I ask you what exactly your point is? Population of Russia is 142 MILLIONS, population of Greenland is 57.564 THOUSAND. Fact, end of story. Population density is of no interest here.

Quoting DXing (Reply 25):
Why in the world would he need to do that? Has some goat herder in Mongolia somehow been harmed by his policies?

I don't think Bush could ever regain international respect, however I think most the international and much of the undiluded and unblinded US population would appreciate an apology, yet that won't correct all the damage he has done.

Quoting DXing (Reply 30):
Now you don't like the way the numbers turn out and you want to blame me for showing you the comparison? Guess you're out of wind.

You brought up populations, not Russianjet in an attempt to make an invalid argument.

Quoting DXing (Reply 30):
Yes, I forgot how much people don't want to move here anymore. Guess the illegals from south of the border haven't gotten the word yet.

News for you, you're still a wealthy country, so sure "poorer" illegal immigrants are going there. I can assure you your tourist industry suffered. The US is still today receiving lower numbers of overseas tourists than in 2000 when you received just short of 26 million foreign tourists, which started falling from 2001 (initially due to 9/11 attacks, followed by drop in popularity of the US, which imho is sad, as it was due to your administration and not your great country). In 2003 you had dropped to 18,026 million tourists. 2007 figures are still a couple of million below 2000 levels, and even 1997 levels. No matter what you want to think, which is your right, Bush and his supporters severly damaged the image of your country. And believe me, in my eyes this is very sad as the US is a great place to visit.

Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 44):
Yellow means that these countries eventually realised their mistakes. Therefore talking about broad support for the war in Europe is simply incorrect. And Yellowstone's section about popular polls will tell you exactly what people thought (and still think).

Indeed, as a European, I can assure you popular support was incredibly low, and the few governments that supported Bush (mainly PMs Tony Blair of GB and José Maria Aznar of Spain, look what happened to them...).

Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 44):
The case of Spain is quite telling. Massive popular opposition to the war, stupid/arm-twisted government went ahead with Iraq disaster, government ousted in the very next following elections, with 200 dead civilians in Madrid for good measure.

Indeed. Spain was seen by Bush is a major ally. The anti-Bush support protests in Spain were amongst the largest in the world, and as you correctly state, Aznar didn't last. He's nearly is mad as Bush, and poor old Blair who I did like at once, seemed to go mad as well, probably upon realisation of his major error in supporting Bush.

Sadly for the few Bush supportes out there, the world and most the US will sigh a MEGGA sigh of relief next Tuesday when it's finally farewell Mr. Bush.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
RussianJet
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RE: President Bush Holds Final News Conference

Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:45 am



Quoting Toulouse (Reply 48):
Indeed, as a European, I can assure you popular support was incredibly low, and the few governments that supported Bush (mainly PMs Tony Blair of GB and José Maria Aznar of Spain, look what happened to them...).

Yup. Even in the UK, supposedly a staunch ally in the Iraq war, we had probably the biggest demonstrations I ever recall seeing about any issue, protesting against the war. Nobody wanted it, but hey, they did it anyway. Unlike many others in respect of their own country, I am perfectly happy to express my deep shame that my country, the UK, participated in military action in Iraq. Blind patriotism is never going to convince me that something so obviously wrong could ever be right.
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