usair320
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Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:26 am

In my personal opinion I'd like to see the Republican Liberty Caucus grow. Many congressional candidates come to mind. Among them are B.J Lawson in NC, State Senator Bob Hedlund (R-MA), along with Ron Paul retaining his seat. As far as 2012 my ideal candidate would be former governor Gary E. Johnson (R-New Mexico). Other unlikely candidates are Sen. chuck Hagel (R-Nebraska) and sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine). I'd love to se Ron Paul run again, but he will be quite old by that time. What's your input?
 
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cpd
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:50 am

Personally, I think it needs to reinvent itself and move away from the stuffy, antiquated policies of the GWB era. They could do well to be more modern and contemporary. It might alienate ultra conservatives - but so be it.

By paddling nearer the political mainstream - they may have a chance to win power again.

I hope they aren't reading this - because we need a good 8 year or so break from conservative politics. To quote the lyrics from a well known song - Uncle Sam and John was quite enough...

It's tough to know who might bring them the salvation they seek. Interesting you mention that one of the candidates would be quite old - maybe a younger, fresher mind is needed, bringing fresh/different ideas to solve the difficulties USA faces.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:01 am

It is hard to say right now, perhaps someone who leads and moves the party to right-center, away from the social-military-fiscal extreme conservatives and encourages some comprimise with the Obama Administration. We do need the Republican party to be a balance and moderator of some of the policies of the Democratic Party. I think from that we will see new, perhaps younger and more moderate leaders develop.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:21 pm



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 2):
perhaps someone who leads and moves the party to right-center,

Jeez, haven't you guys been paying attention? GWB and his administration HAVE been very centrist - big government bailouts, expansion of medicare, not willing to decrease the size and influence of government on people's lives. The only thing conservative about him has been an agressive foreign policy.

And McCain was more of the same - a centrist with a history of siding with Democrats almost as often as with his own party.

After a few years of Obama, I expect that the economic disaster will be sufficient to insipire another wave of conservatism in the country - another Reagan Revolution to get government back under control.

This weekend I was in a store where I saw an Obama portrait for sale with a quote on the bottom. It said, "Destiny is not made by you, it is written for you", or words to that effect. I was shocked and appalled. I can't recall him ever actually saying that, or if the poster maker was being creative, but if that is the kind of socialistic thinking going on in his head (i.e. "you don't need to do anything, the benevolent state will take care of you") then that is a slap in the face to all Americans who believe in freedom and self-determination. People will eventually reject that.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:41 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
"Destiny is not made by you, it is written for you",

Here is the correct quote: Our Destiny Is Not Written For Us, But By Us’. Kind of changes the meaning of what you wrote, don't you think?

"I know these are difficult times. I know folks are worried. But I also know that now is not the time for fear or panic. Now is the time for resolve and steady leadership. Because I know we can steer ourselves out of this crisis. This is a nation that has faced down war and depression; great challenges and great threats. We have always seen that mountaintop from the deepest valley. We have always risen to the moment when the moment was hard – and we can do it again. We can restore confidence in our economy and renew that fundamental belief – that here in America, our destiny is not written for us, but by us."
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:23 am



Quoting Usair320 (Thread starter):
What's your input?

Louisiana Gov Bobby Jindal. Nuff said.
Made from jets!
 
WunalaYann
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:32 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
The only thing conservative about him has been an agressive foreign policy.

Actually, if you listen to Ron Paul (probably the only serious conservative out there), an agressive foreign policy is contrary to conservatice values and ideologies.  Smile
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:42 am

Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 6):
Actually, if you listen to Ron Paul (probably the only serious conservative out there), an agressive foreign policy is contrary to conservatice values and ideologies.

I've never understood why Ron Paul is the "only serious conservative." Because that's what he and calls himself? One man doesn't get to define the values of conservative policy. Aggressive foreign policy has been a part of the Bush, Reagan, and Nixon administrations. Eisenhower was no slouch either. It's not something the latest generation of Bush "neo-cons" decided to concoct.

The GOP will rebound in due time. At the latest my the 2014 midterms.

[Edited 2009-01-19 18:42:53]
 
Alias1024
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:51 am



Quoting Usair320 (Thread starter):
As far as 2012 my ideal candidate would be former governor Gary E. Johnson (R-New Mexico).

The GOP would nominate Ted Kennedy before Gary Johnson.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:55 am



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 4):
Here is the correct quote: Our Destiny Is Not Written For Us, But By Us’. Kind of changes the meaning of what you wrote, don't you think?

If that is the correct quote, I have no problem with it. But the poster I saw had the exact opposite. I even had a "double-take moment". when I could not believe what I had read, and read it again to make sure.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
jcs17
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:19 am



Quoting Usair320 (Thread starter):
In my personal opinion I'd like to see the Republican Liberty Caucus grow. Many congressional candidates come to mind. Among them are B.J Lawson in NC, State Senator Bob Hedlund (R-MA), along with Ron Paul retaining his seat. As far as 2012 my ideal candidate would be former governor Gary E. Johnson (R-New Mexico). Other unlikely candidates are Sen. chuck Hagel (R-Nebraska) and sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine). I'd love to se Ron Paul run again, but he will be quite old by that time. What's your input?

The GOP, as inept as they are, won't make the same mistake twice. You won't see a moderate Republican sniff the nomination for another 10-20 years. We're looking at a Ronald Reagan figure four years from now, against a Jimmy Carter (Obama).

In 2012:
-Romney
-Palin
-Jindal
-Sanford

IMO, we're going to go with a Romney/Palin or Jindal (most likely VP) ticket, and life will be good in 2013.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
N174UA
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:47 am

Unless she does a super-star job in Alaska for the next few years, I don't see Gov. Palin back as pursuing national office. Maybe a Senator, but who knows. Should could run against Sen. Lisa Murkowski and win, and that would get her to Washington, maybe to make a run in 2016.

She's up for re-election next year, and if she wants to run for President in 2012, then she would realistically not run for re-election.

I like Romney, but I'd be equally amazed if he's on the ticket.

Watch Tim Pawlenty and Bobby Jindal - could be an interesting pair if they ran together.

2012 depends on how well Obama does. If he crashes and burns, then a Reagan-type figure would win. If Obama is doing well, then they may as well run Palin as a sacrificial lamb, and prepare for 2016.
 
flymia
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:53 am



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 10):
IMO, we're going to go with a Romney/Palin or Jindal (most likely VP) ticket, and life will be good in 2013.

Palin is an idiot and does not belong anywhere near Washington.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
Louisiana Gov Bobby Jindal. Nuff said.

Along with Tim Pawlenty.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
After a few years of Obama, I expect that the economic disaster will be sufficient to insipire another wave of conservatism in the country - another Reagan Revolution to get government back under control.

Agree with you there. As much as I want to see Obama succeed in this economic crisis I just don’t see it happening. It’s a worldwide problem now.

Expectations are much too high for President Obama (might as well call him president now) he will be able to solve problems but he is not a miracle worker. The general public who knows just about nothing about politics and world affairs expect a new country in 2 years. It looks like some things are only going to get worse before they turn for the better. People need to start understanding this. He is not the controller of the Universe and Time.

Anyway I will be off to watch the ceremonies tomorrow in DC. I am not sure if I am going to stick it with the crowds in the Mall or just take it the easy way and watch it from my Capitol Hill Office but either way we have a historic day ahead of US and I am happy I will have the privilege to be a part of it. (Even though I voted for McCain) In the scheme of world history what seems so simple to many is an amazing sight, seeing Democracy at its best, a peaceful transition of power.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
ABQ747
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:09 am



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 8):
The GOP would nominate Ted Kennedy before Gary Johnson.

 checkmark  Gary Johnson has no chance of being nominated as long as he supports legalizing marijuana. Steve Pearce and Heather Wilson are much better candidates.
The reason New Mexico is so windy is because Texas sucks and Arizona blows.
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:27 am



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 10):
You won't see a moderate Republican sniff the nomination for another 10-20 years.

And that sort of sentiment will keep Republicans of any sort from sniffing the presidency for another 10-20 years. The shifting demographics that got Obama elected aren't going away. The youth vote that went strongly for Kerry and Obama? Quite a lot of them are now lifelong Democrats. Latinos are the fastest growing ethnic group in the country, and they are voting increasingly Democratic. The Mountain West? More and more Democratic. The Upper Midwest? Again, voting ever more Democratic. Unless the Republican party wants to continue its march into irrelevancy as a regional party, they're going to have to reform themselves. I doubt they will do so by 2012, though - it's just too easy to blame failure on the messenger, rather than the message.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
Alias1024
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:31 am



Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 13):
  Gary Johnson has no chance of being nominated as long as he supports legalizing marijuana. Steve Pearce and Heather Wilson are much better candidates.

I'd personally choose none of the above, but I'm not a Republican either. Johnson also indicated later in his second term that he would lean toward legalization of cocaine, and would give some consideration to legalization of heroin.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:58 am



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 10):
The GOP, as inept as they are, won't make the same mistake twice. You won't see a moderate Republican sniff the nomination for another 10-20 year

Since you say 'mistake', i am curious to see which more conservative candidate you think could've won this election.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 14):
The youth vote that went strongly for Kerry and Obama? Quite a lot of them are now lifelong Democrats.

Don't jump the gun based off of 1 election. People were saying the Democrats were done in 2004, saying if they couldn't win then, when could they? Remember, a lot of the 'youth vote' and 'lifelong democrats' of the 60's and 70's turning into the middle aged Republican base? Political affiliations are far from constant, and often fluctuate with age and life experiences. I think it is naive to anoint young voters as lifelong Democrats. All it could take is a Reagan like figure to turn the electoral tide.

Now, I sure as hell hope this Obama Presidency will not lead to something like 1980, but it is a very real possibility considering the long road ahead.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Elite
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:11 am



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
Louisiana Gov Bobby Jindal. Nuff said.

Just because he's Indian? I think we've had enough of this "race" thing. The new leader of the GOP is going to be someone who is able to balance traditional conservatives with the newer, slightly more liberal "neo-conservatives". Contrary to what some people believe, I don't think the GOP will try to go the way of finding a non-white or female politician just to win more votes instead of focusing on the actual credentials ... did Sarah Palin not teach us anything?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
GWB and his administration HAVE been very centrist

Probably more centrist than what people would think, but Dick Cheney was still a major conservative influence on GWB's decisions.
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:27 am



Quoting Jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 16):
Don't jump the gun based off of 1 election. People were saying the Democrats were done in 2004, saying if they couldn't win then, when could they? Remember, a lot of the 'youth vote' and 'lifelong democrats' of the 60's and 70's turning into the middle aged Republican base? Political affiliations are far from constant, and often fluctuate with age and life experiences. I think it is naive to anoint young voters as lifelong Democrats. All it could take is a Reagan like figure to turn the electoral tide.

I agree that we can't take for granted the shift, but the numbers are striking. Young voters went for Obama 2 to 1 over McCain - that's a huge margin. And I think you're wrong with your comment about 2004 - the full view of Bush's incompetence didn't come out until his second term. People were still receptive to the "politics of fear" tactics his campaign was using; I won't say we've moved entirely beyond that, but it would seem people tire of it after a couple of election cycles (2002 and 2004, in this case).

To bring up another point, we've been talking a lot about the presidency, but the Congress also deserves a look - the Republicans are losing several Senators to retirement next cycle, many in "purple" states. The Dems stand to pick up another seat or two there, which should put them over the 60-seat line (whether that's significant is a point for another thread). On the House side, here's a interesting piece by Nate Silver of 538.com:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/...ublicans-still-national-party.html
He points out that the Democrats have 126 districts they won by 40 or more points; the Republicans only have 30, 22 of which are in the South. Also, if every Republican House candidate got 5 percent more of the vote in 2010 than in 2008, they'd still only pick up 15 seats. Even if every GOP candidate boosted their share of the vote by 15 percent, the Democrats would still control the House. Doesn't mean that can't change, but it would seem to suggest that the GOP has some work to do if they want to get back in power.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
Elite
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:29 am



Quoting Jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 16):
Don't jump the gun based off of 1 election.

I agree; the Democrats shouldn't be too excited and the Republicans shouldn't be too sad. Anyone who has taken a look into US politics will know that it is so complex that 1 election really doesn't mean that much in the long run. Ideologies will continue to shift; we don't know what will happen in the future. What if Obama has a terrible first term? This could turn the tide against the Democrats. If you look at the important issues for the past few elections (2008, 2004, 2000) you will see that it is drastically different. For the Republicans to continue to focus on the "race" issue would put them behind and potentially lose them another election. (Like it or not, the race issue was a big factor in the 08 elections... "change", "hope", etc were a part of it but race too).

There is also the consensus of 2010 that has the potential to play a major factor come 2012. Republican stronghold states such as Texas and Utah are set to gain a few electoral votes while Democratic states such as New York and Pennsylvania will continue to lose them. When you look at the big picture and see that only 270 electoral votes are needed to win 2008, these changes can make a big difference.

I think that in 2012 the Republicans will be back and that they will have a strong showing, at least stronger than 2008. There are a few lessons learned; firstly, the Republicans should learn from the disciplined campaign of Barack Obama. It was an impressive campaign that left the McCain camp - who were divided on the choice of Palin - in shock. Secondly, the future does not lie with Sarah Palin. No way.

Remember this: 1 term (4 years) is a long time. By the time it is 2012 the political landscape will be completely different. In 1984, Republican Ronald Reagan won 49 states and 59% of the popular vote; 8 years later, Democrat Bill Clinton won 53% of the popular vote and went on to serve 2 terms. So a strong year doesn't mean anything, and both sides need to know that.
 
MarSciGuy
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:22 pm



Quoting Elite (Reply 19):
see that only 270 electoral votes are needed to win 2008, these changes can make a big difference.

I'm fairly certain the "only" 270 electoral votes have been needed for at least several election cycles, if not decades...

According to the 12th and 23rd amendments and US Law (determining the size of the US House of Reps) the number of Electors is set at the number of US Senators + the number of US Reps + 3 electors from the District of Columbia, which means that the total number of electors is 538.

Source: http://www.archives.gov/federal-regi...ter/electoral-college/faq.html#538

I'm not sure when the last time the US House grew, but the Senate hasn't since Hawaii and Alaska joined the Union in 1959 so I'd hazard a guess it's been at least a couple of decades...
"There weren't a ton of gnats there where a ton of gnats and their families as well!"
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:26 pm



Quoting Elite (Reply 19):
There is also the consensus of 2010 that has the potential to play a major factor come 2012. Republican stronghold states such as Texas and Utah are set to gain a few electoral votes while Democratic states such as New York and Pennsylvania will continue to lose them. When you look at the big picture and see that only 270 electoral votes are needed to win 2008, these changes can make a big difference.

True, but those shift of a few EVs into traditionally Republican states is balanced by the fact that states like Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, Iowa, and Virginia, among others, are moving towards becoming Democratic. I don't think the GOP can win unless they start taking back those states. Also, in the long run, the reason why Southern, Republican stronghold states are gaining EVs is that people are moving out of the North and into the "Sun Belt." Those "immigrants" will take their political views with them, gradually diluting GOP support in the state.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
JeffSFO
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:28 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 21):


Quoting Elite (Reply 19):
There is also the consensus of 2010 that has the potential to play a major factor come 2012. Republican stronghold states such as Texas and Utah are set to gain a few electoral votes while Democratic states such as New York and Pennsylvania will continue to lose them. When you look at the big picture and see that only 270 electoral votes are needed to win 2008, these changes can make a big difference.

True, but those shift of a few EVs into traditionally Republican states is balanced by the fact that states like Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, Iowa, and Virginia, among others, are moving towards becoming Democratic. I don't think the GOP can win unless they start taking back those states. Also, in the long run, the reason why Southern, Republican stronghold states are gaining EVs is that people are moving out of the North and into the "Sun Belt." Those "immigrants" will take their political views with them, gradually diluting GOP support in the state.

I agree with Yellowstone on his points. Take a look at the voting trends on the interactive map linked below and you'll see how only 22% of counties in the US voted more Republican in 2008 than 2004 (mostly in the South) while the rest of the country shifted Democratic. If this trend continues the only predominant GOP stronghold will be that pocket of white voters in the South. According to the data provided on the linked page, the surge in younger and minority voters helped tip the scales to Obama:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

If the GOP can't appeal to those groups then they risk getting marginalized in future elections.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:57 pm



Quoting JeffSFO (Reply 22):
If the GOP can't appeal to those groups then they risk getting marginalized in future elections.

This is the central problem - we have started to see "groups" that need to be "won over". You have all these hyphonated-American groups, gays, atheists, born-agains, enviro-nuts, retirees, etc. etc. etc., and now the common wisdom is that you have to appeal to these groups to win them over. The Democrats have proven expert at this (it's called "divide & conquer"), and the Republicans have been trying to do the same the past few years without success.

I think they should stop trying to win over all these separate groups and go back to treating everyone the same, as Americans. Treating people differently because of their race, status or whatever runs completely against conservative principles.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
JFKMan
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:59 pm

I think the future of the GOP will be conservative. It will be led by Sarah Palin and Bobby Jindal.
AA - LGA
 
RSWA330
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:14 pm



Quoting JeffSFO (Reply 22):
If the GOP can't appeal to those groups then they risk getting marginalized in future elections.

Why does the GOP have to appeal to "groups?" We are all Americans. I can tell you the first way the GOP can start to heal itself and that is to stop dividing everyone up into "groups." They need to be open to everyone, but they don't need to pander to each individual group.

I know liberals would love to see Palin fall off the map, but she is not going anywhere. She is not stupid and she knows what it is like to be underestimated (as do her opponents). If she can expand her knowledge of national politics instead of focusing solely on Alaskan politics, she can go far. I really don't want to think America will brush her off just because of her dialect and the fact that she didn't graduate from an elite university. I think she has a lot to offer this country if people would give her a chance. Pawlenty and Jindal are also ones to watch.
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:25 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 23):
I think they should stop trying to win over all these separate groups and go back to treating everyone the same, as Americans. Treating people differently because of their race, status or whatever runs completely against conservative principles.

As the saying goes, America isn't so much a melting pot as a salad bowl. We aren't all the same; we each have different heritages and experiences that shape our perceptions. It's entirely reasonable to expect different people to be concerned by different issues, and it's likewise reasonable to expect politicians to work to reach out to various different groups.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:27 pm

Memo from a liberal democrat.


A while ago a lot of people were yapping about the "Republican brand" like it was some kinda beer or underwear or something.

I've got a friend who's a very high powered marketing guru. Fact is, he was Sr. VP of Fender for a number of years. Here's what he says about this sort of thing paraphrased and it bears considering.

What do you do? Who are you? Can you say that in one sentence?

Are you a group of angry people, or are you the party of Lincoln?

Until you define who you are and articulate that view in a way that engages people, brings them in, and gets them to buy the message, you're going nowhere.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
AGM100
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:26 pm

Darrell Issa ... ?
I will be watching this man over the next couple of years , I like what I have seen so far.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darrell_Issa
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Triebwerk
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:11 am

I might be on the liberal side, but I certainly don't want to see the GOP go defunct. The moment one party assumes full control, this country could be in for a mess.

The Republican party needs charismatic leaders and an emphasis on fiscal responsibility--neither of which should be hard to find. By 2014, I think, the GOP will start regaining seats in both houses of Congress; 2016's presidential election could go either way.
 
FreequentFlier
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:42 am



Quoting Jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 16):

Don't jump the gun based off of 1 election. People were saying the Democrats were done in 2004, saying if they couldn't win then, when could they? Remember, a lot of the 'youth vote' and 'lifelong democrats' of the 60's and 70's turning into the middle aged Republican base? Political affiliations are far from constant, and often fluctuate with age and life experiences. I think it is naive to anoint young voters as lifelong Democrats. All it could take is a Reagan like figure to turn the electoral tide.

The people who usually make these proclamations of permanent majorities and other such nonsense are usually party figures or other associated hacks. As you mentioned, Republican hacks were claiming such a permanent coalition as recently as 4 years ago. All lame HopeAndChange! slogans aside, we are entering the worst recession of your and my lifetime. Obama and his party will be present during the worst of it (ie this year and next) and will probably get punished quite a bit for it, as in 2010. But that doesn't mean there's some sort of permanent Republican coalition a-brewin', people tend to vote with their pocketbooks. "It's the economy stupid."
 
N867DA
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:54 am



Quoting Triebwerk (Reply 29):
I might be on the liberal side, but I certainly don't want to see the GOP go defunct. The moment one party assumes full control, this country could be in for a mess.

 checkmark  When I used to read political forums I can't tell you how upset I got when posters would back permanent Democratic/Republican rule. We can debate whether a third or fourth party is needed, but we definitely need two parties!

The short term future of the GOP is in the President's hands. If he falters and governs foolishly, millions will vote for change, just like they did two months ago. If he governs wisely and keeps the public happy then the GOP is in for some tough times. That said, I expect the Republicans to pick up a few seats in Congress in the midterm elections. There's no way this Democratic lovefest will last forever even if Obama walks on water.

I lean (okay, tilt) Democratic so I would like a more libertarian Republican Party. Politicians like Jindal and Palin scare me and I hope they never leave their state's political arena. But you can't always get what you want. If by some terrible misfortune they become president I'll give them a shot.

Kind of like how millions who voted against Obama are forced to give him a shot.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
A346Dude
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:36 am



Quoting RSWA330 (Reply 25):
I know liberals would love to see Palin fall off the map, but she is not going anywhere.

Palin was a disaster except among the most right-wing of Republicans. I really don't understand why anyone (except the Democrats) would want to see her as the future of the party. If she really is the future, the GOP is in for a long period of not being in power.
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:08 am



Quoting N867DA (Reply 31):
   When I used to read political forums I can't tell you how upset I got when posters would back permanent Democratic/Republican rule. We can debate whether a third or fourth party is needed, but we definitely need two parties!

Depends purely on whose ox is getting gored. When the Republicans were running things most of them thought a permanent majority a pretty good idea. Of course it removes any reason for working together.
Chairman Newt seemed to think it was his mission.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
RSWA330
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:15 am



Quoting A346Dude (Reply 32):
Palin was a disaster except among the most right-wing of Republicans. I really don't understand why anyone (except the Democrats) would want to see her as the future of the party. If she really is the future, the GOP is in for a long period of not being in power.

She was a disaster in your opinion. Over 70% of Republicans say she was a good choice. Are you saying we should disregard the 70% to pander to the 30%? Trust me, Palin is not going anywhere. She may not run for president, but she will certainly be a key player in the Republican party and hopefully a model for other Republican governors.
 
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:19 am



Quoting RSWA330 (Reply 34):
Over 70% of Republicans say she was a good choice. Are you saying we should disregard the 70% to pander to the 30%?

Trouble is, you can't win an election by just getting your party's vote. If Palin can't appeal to independents, she's out of luck.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
RSWA330
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:30 am



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 35):
Trouble is, you can't win an election by just getting your party's vote. If Palin can't appeal to independents, she's out of luck.

Yes, and if you run a moderate, you are in danger of losing a significant portion of the base which is just as bad. Nobody needs to pander to the independents and this is precisely what's wrong with the GOP. Liberals did not win by convincing independents to vote for them. They won because they convinced the independents not to vote for the Republicans. Where exactly did Obama break with the liberal platform? He didn't. Why should the GOP pander to independents when the Democrats don't?

We need to run a true conservative instead of these liberal conservatives that we seem to keep getting stuck with.
 
mirrodie
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:34 am



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
Louisiana Gov Bobby Jindal. Nuff said.



Quoting Elite (Reply 17):
Just because he's Indian? I think we've had enough of this "race" thing.

....and where was race even mentioned? Perhaps its forefront on your mind but no one else's?


As some have mentioned, I don't see Ron Paul running again altogether I would like too.

And I find I think that Jindal may be a great young choice for the future of the party. I say after having reviewed his record and having read up on him. Race? Didn't even give it a thought, so not sure about that race card you bring up.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
Dougloid
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:35 am



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 37):
And I find I think that Jindal may be a great young choice for the future of the party. I say after having reviewed his record and having read up on him. Race? Didn't even give it a thought, so not sure about that race card you bring up.

Can you define your mission statement? If you cannot, it doesn't matter who comes riding into town on a white horse.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:55 am



Quoting RSWA330 (Reply 36):
Yes, and if you run a moderate, you are in danger of losing a significant portion of the base which is just as bad. Nobody needs to pander to the independents and this is precisely what's wrong with the GOP. Liberals did not win by convincing independents to vote for them. They won because they convinced the independents not to vote for the Republicans. Where exactly did Obama break with the liberal platform? He didn't. Why should the GOP pander to independents when the Democrats don't?

Your response ignores the fact that Obama is a moderate, pragmatic Democrat - he's a center-left president for a centrist nation. So was Clinton, as a matter of fact. And neither of them had any trouble turning out their base. And your claim that the Dems won because they convinced independents not to vote for Republicans doesn't fly either. Independents tend to be less likely than partisans to have high levels of interest in an election. When independents don't like either candidate, they tend to just stay home. The fact that so many independents turned out to vote for Obama shows that he did indeed appeal to them. And I wouldn't say that he pandered to them, but rather that the message he ran on had an appeal beyond Democratic party lines. Republicans must do the same if they are to take back the presidency, especially because there are more Democrats than Republicans to begin with.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
Elite
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:01 am



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 37):
Race? Didn't even give it a thought, so not sure about that race card you bring up.

Many people have immediately jumped to Bobby Jindal after Obama won because of the one issue that we oh so want to avoid but can't - race.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:13 pm



Quoting RSWA330 (Reply 36):
We need to run a true conservative instead of these liberal conservatives that we seem to keep getting stuck with.

A 'true conservative' whatever that is can't get elected.

Anyway, what's your definition of a true conservative, and why would that be better than whatever it was that you were stuck with?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
slider
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:02 pm

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/...onservatisms_dilemma_to_be_or.html

This is a good thread to discuss.

I think the question is less WHO will be the standard bearer of the party and more of WHAT the party will stand for. Conservatives are out in the last frontier right now without a home.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 27):
What do you do? Who are you? Can you say that in one sentence?

Damn good question. That article linked above speaks to that too—a platform that is rooted in principle is absolutely lacking. Both parties are on a long road to ruin, just in different lanes. Corruption charges have skewered Democrats and Republicans, “values” is not the domain of one party necessarily, and right now, true conservatives and Constitutionalists are NOT represented.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 41):
A 'true conservative' whatever that is can't get elected.

I vehemently disagree. If the conservative message is properly delivered and people are actually intellectually engaged (the qualifier---rare, since emotion and rhetoric seem to win the day these days), it will never lose. Conservative principles—limited government, low spending, individual self-reliance and protection of liberties, as well as a strong defense (not offense, mind you), a muscular free market economy whose legitimate regulations are enforced (again, a failure of Congress that led to this recession that continues to go uninvestigated and doesn’t hold anyone accountable)—these are all core tenets of conservatism. The roots of the conservative movement that revolves around economic theory of Freidman, Hayek and von Mises, and Adam Smith, the Enlightenment principles of Rousseau, Voltaire, the applied pragmatism and shrewd checks and balances of our Founders, etc.

So in the final analysis to me, I don’t want a celebrity president. I don’t want a cult of personality, because it is the substance that matters and how that person—whether male or female, black or white or polka-dotted—delivers the message, sells it and rallies people to the cause of our Republic.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:26 pm

It'd be my guess that very few people actually meet that description, m'dear fellow.

Although parenthetically an awful lot of people call themselves conservatives.

Their idea of conservatism is, Jesus will kill the fags and put the negroes in their place, because you see, they have never done the reading and study that gets you to the heart of what conservatism allegedly is. It's an intellectual pursuit that requires taking some time from watching American Idol and going to Klan meetings. Most folks aren't up to the task.

They've poisoned the brand, you see, and those of you who aspire to the label without having to get in the sack with El Rushbo and Sean Hannity will have to clean your own house from top to bottom to make "conservative" mean something more than mean spirited obstructionism with nasty racist and homophobic overtones. You're like the people in China trying to restore the image of Chinese made baby formula.

Personally I do not find anything Edmund Burke ever wrote that's inconsistent with being a liberal democrat, although I draw the line at people like Milton Friedman, Jack Weinstein and the rest of the Chicago school-they're a bunch of poseurs who rewrite law to meet their ideological predilections.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:35 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 14):
The shifting demographics that got Obama elected aren't going away. The youth vote that went strongly for Kerry and Obama? Quite a lot of them are now lifelong Democrats.

Sure they're Democrats now. But wait till a good chunk of them get a high paying and they start paying taxes. Then they'll think twice about that.To quote Churchill - "A man who isn't a liberal by age 20 has no heart; a man who isn't a conservative by age 40 has no brains."

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 43):
They've poisoned the brand, you see, and those of you who aspire to the label without having to get in the sack with El Rushbo and Sean Hannity will have to clean your own house from top to bottom to make "conservative" mean something more than mean spirited obstructionism with nasty racist and homophobic overtones.

You have no idea what you're talking about; only drawing broad stereostypes that are right along the lines of the stereotype that the French are pussies, of which there's about an equal record to back up that stereotype. BTW, Rush Limbaugh's call screener is black, so I would love to know where you get this "Limbaugh is racist" notion.  sarcastic 

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 39):
Your response ignores the fact that Obama is a moderate, pragmatic Democrat - he's a center-left president for a centrist nation. So was Clinton, as a matter of fact. And neither of them had any trouble turning out their base.

Well if you're comparing Clinton to Obama, hopefully this means a Republican Revolution in Congress in the 2010 mid-terms. But your post ignores the fact nearly 20% of the popular vote in 1992 went to Perot - something that greatly affected the voter turnout and the stats, and makes 1992 incomparable to 2008.

Quoting RSWA330 (Reply 34):
She was a disaster in your opinion. Over 70% of Republicans say she was a good choice. Are you saying we should disregard the 70% to pander to the 30%? Trust me, Palin is not going anywhere. She may not run for president, but she will certainly be a key player in the Republican party and hopefully a model for other Republican governors.

You do have to appeal to the 20% or so independent voters who decide every Presidential election.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
RSWA330
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:01 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 44):
You do have to appeal to the 20% or so independent voters who decide every Presidential election.

I'm saying we shouldn't abandon our principles to try and draw in the independents. Instead, we need to convince the independents why our principles are right for them.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:14 pm



Quoting RSWA330 (Reply 45):
I'm saying we shouldn't abandon our principles to try and draw in the independents

If your principles include social engineering like abstinence-only education, nation-building intervention like delivering democracy to a tyrannied populace that hasn't fought for it themselves, or straight rejection of fundamental equality issues like gay adoptions and don't ask / don't tell, this independent will never be on board. Get your party out of people's bedrooms and lives - that would be an excellent start. Today's GOP is as instrusive to society as the Democrats are - they just don't see it.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
WunalaYann
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:34 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 44):
You have no idea what you're talking about; only drawing broad stereostypes that are right along the lines of the stereotype that the French are pussies, of which there's about an equal record to back up that stereotype.

Please forgive my lack of command of English, but what exactly do you mean? Do you mean that there is a record to show that French people are [insert insulting term of yours], and therefore justify the existence of such a stereotype?

Or are you saying that there is not more substance to the claim that "conservatives" (as a few posters have pointed out, the definition of the term is subject to many, many discussions) are racist and homophobic as there is to the "surrender monkey" stereotype bandied about by some people?

I am confused, really.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:56 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 44):
But wait till a good chunk of them get a high paying and they start paying taxes.

But if you look at exit polling data, this doesn't hold true. Americans in the higher income brackets actually tend to lean toward the Democrats. The Republican party actually does surprisingly poor among people with higher incomes and education.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
another Reagan Revolution to get government back under control.

So we're going to have our gov't get even bigger and get bigger deficits which is what Reagan did? Not something to look forward to.
 
FreequentFlier
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RE: Who Do You Think The Future Of The GOP Is?

Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:36 am



Quoting Slider (Reply 42):
So in the final analysis to me, I don’t want a celebrity president. I don’t want a cult of personality, because it is the substance that matters and how that person—whether male or female, black or white or polka-dotted—delivers the message, sells it and rallies people to the cause of our Republic.

If only this were true. I'm a conservative/libertarian (as opposed to a Republican) but have you paid attention in the past 12 months? We've just elected the least qualified, least accomplished, most vapid, most vacuous man to lead the Republic in its entire history based on a slogan of "Hope" and "Change". The substance no longer matters unfortunately, we apparently elect Presidents based on celebrity. (Admit it liberals, if you took off your partisan hats and put on your independent hats for a second, would you actually hire Barack Obama to be a Vice President at a major business, let alone the President of the entire country? If Obama's resume came across my desk - a failed "community organizer" and straight party-line voter in the Illinois House Of Representatives - I would toss it in the garbage and wouldn't even grant an interview)

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 46):
Today's GOP is as instrusive to society as the Democrats are - they just don't see it.

A good point. It's hard for Republicans to claim they're for small government when they support things like the failed War on Drugs or selective federalism.

Of course, don't kid yourselves. The Democrats are infinitely worse in this regard.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 43):
They've poisoned the brand, you see, and those of you who aspire to the label without having to get in the sack with El Rushbo and Sean Hannity will have to clean your own house from top to bottom to make "conservative" mean something more than mean spirited obstructionism with nasty racist and homophobic overtones.

Really? Still this? Will you ever put aside your tiresome stereotypes? Liberal, you bore me.

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