NewAlitalia
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Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:54 pm

Fiat Group (which includes Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo and Lancia) is talking with Chrysler LLC to form a strategic partnership that could lead to the Italian car maker taking a stake in its U.S. peer, an industry publication said, citing people familiar with the matter.
Fiat Group could give Chrysler access to platforms, engines and transmissions to help the U.S. car maker overcome its problems, Automotive News Europe said on Monday.
Owned by private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management , Chrysler saw its sales fall 30 pecent in 2008.
It shut down all its plants for a month at the start of the year to shore up cash and cut inventories of unsold vehicles.
After getting a $1.5 billion loan from the U.S. Treasury, its finance arm is offering zero percent financing for the purchase of a range of Chrysler vehicles.

http://www.reuters.com/article/ameri...teEquityNews/idUSTRE50I3QQ20090119

This it could speed up the return of Alfa Romeo to the USA.

Soon it could be a Turin-Detroit flight Big grin

[Edited 2009-01-19 10:24:48]
 
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Tugger
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:40 pm

From what I read this could be a good match up as Fiat is strong in Europe and South America but weak (OK, non-existent) in the USA, while Chrysler is relatively strong in the USA (dealer network, name recognition, and brand loyalty) but very weak outside of it.

Basically Fiat gets a ready made network within the USA, at a fire sale bargain price and Chrysler gets to live for another day (or two maybe) and perhaps tap into Fiats small car expertise. It gives Chrysler the ability to actual compete better against its USA rivals.

I hope this deal goes through.

Tugg
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dtwclipper
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:45 pm



Quoting Tugger (Reply 1):
Basically Fiat gets a ready made network within the USA, at a fire sale bargain price and Chrysler gets to live for another day (or two maybe) and perhaps tap into Fiats small car expertise. It gives Chrysler the ability to actual compete better against its USA rivals.

Been there done that before......wonder if it will work any better with Fiat than Daimler.

On the bright side, maybe will see PTK-TRN!
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NewAlitalia
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:02 pm



Quoting Tugger (Reply 1):
From what I read this could be a good match up as Fiat is strong in Europe and South America but weak (OK, non-existent) in the USA, while Chrysler is relatively strong in the USA (dealer network, name recognition, and brand loyalty) but very weak outside of it.

Basically Fiat gets a ready made network within the USA, at a fire sale bargain price and Chrysler gets to live for another day (or two maybe) and perhaps tap into Fiats small car expertise. It gives Chrysler the ability to actual compete better against its USA rivals.

I hope this deal goes through.

Yes, i agree. Fiat needs Chrysler to speed up the return of Alfa Romeo and Lancia in the US market and there and i heard also they want to bring there the new 500. It's possible that also Ferrari and Maserati that are part of the Fiat Group will have an advantage.
And it could be good also for Chrysler to extend their presence in the markets where they are weak and to get fresh cash from Fiat.

From what i read, Fiat Group could use the Chrysler factories to produce their cars in the US for the north American market and Chrysler could use the Fiat factories around of Europe to produce their cars for this market. And Fiat can in this difficult moment enter in the Chrysler capital and this is extremelly important for the american car maker. I really hope it goes because it will be sad if an historic market such as Chrysler will disappare.
 
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:03 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
Been there done that before......wonder if it will work any better with Fiat than Daimler.


Well, the big, huge problem with Daimler was that it was a "merger of equals" that wasn't.

The bosses at Mercedes were afraid to let Chrysler have access to any current platforms for fear of degrading their brand. The entire value of the merger was to be able to share technology, research, and manufacturing capabilities and that never happened. And Mercedes already covers trucks and such in the rest of the world so they didn't need that. I think the single good merger related vehicle success was the Sprinter van. Dodge started sellingwhat was essentially (if not exactly) a Mercedes delivery van as the "Sprinter" with good results (what has happened with the Sprinter? Since Daimler still holds 20% is it still running as a Dodge product?).

Basically, Daimler didn't want Chrysler moving into Mercedes territory and Chrysler didn't have any activities that Mercedes was interested in. And the worldwide parts sourcing and production just never happened due to brand related concerns.

I don't think you have the "brand contamination" problems in a join up with Fiat.

Tugg
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srbmod
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:08 pm

This had been rumored even before the current crisis. Fiat last March bought Tritec Motors, which was a joint venture between Chrysler, Rover, and later BMW which built 1.4 and 1.6L four cylinder engines at a factory in Brazil. These engines were used in at one point in the MINI, and in non-North American markets the Dodge Neon and Chrysler PT Cruiser. Also around this time, there were rumors that Chrysler would be building the Fiat 500 for the US market, but it would not be sold under the Fiat name, rather as the 500 (similar to how the MINI is sold).

If this partnership comes together, I could actually see a Chrysler LLC-branded vehicles based off of some Fiat and perhaps even some Alfa Romeo vehicles. I could also see the Fiat Ducato or Iveco Daily sold here as a Dodge (With the Sprinter returning to being an exclusively Freightliner vehicle in the US.).
 
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:52 pm



Quoting NewAlitalia (Thread starter):
This it could speed up the return of Alfa Romeo to the USA.

The goofy thing is that Alfa Romeo almost returned a few years ago. FIAT had huge losses and so GM wanted out of the investment. If the losses hadn't occurred, the plan was to convert all Saab dealerships to Saab/Alfa Romeo.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:57 pm

Does this possible marriage mean that we'd get a 21st century version of the 1989 to 1991 Maserati/Chrysler TC convertible?

Someone better call Buick and tell them to dust off their plans for a new Reatta!  duck 
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ltbewr
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:17 am

GM had a stake in Fiat a few years ago that they later go out before a deadline to expand it or get out. Fiat is not the most healthy company either and still over 25 years since that brand the left the USA market with a horrible reputation, I am not sure this is such a good idea. Putting together 2 sick companies usually doesn't work.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:34 am

Have a moribund company with huge labor problems and out-of-control costs? Want a solution? Easy: bring in the Italians!

I wonder if Alitalia will attempt to buy U.S. Airways next.
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NewAlitalia
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:46 am

LTBWER, that's wrong. The Fiat Group (of which Fiat itself is part together with Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo and Lancia) has been one of the fastest growing carmakers in the last 5 years. Thanks to a solid plan of reconstruction and a great manager such as Sergio Marchionne. Now Fiat is one of the most solid European car makers.

Chrysler needs a lot Fiat to get off from this crisis to do like Fiat did 5 - 10 years ago. Now Fiat can provide Chrysler the market, technology, know-how and money for the reconstruction of the Chrysler facilities in the US.

Let's not forget that Fiat in 1999 saved already the American group CASE that is now part of the New Holland Case that belongs always to the Fiat Group.

--

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11090197

Fiat, Rebirth of a carmaker

Apr 24th 2008 | TURIN
From The Economist print edition

With some fine new cars and financial figures to match, Fiat has staged an astonishing recovery

THE dominating image at last month's Geneva motor show, Europe's most glamorous, was a giant mock-up of a tiny car: the new Fiat 500. It was Fiat's way of celebrating the crowning of its achingly fashionable baby as European car of the year, ahead of a strong field and with one of the biggest winning margins in the competition's history. At the same show, Fiat launched the first all-new Lancia for four years and revealed the Alfa Romeo 8C Spider, judged by some to be the most beautiful car in the world today.

Underpinning the display of confidence in Geneva is a remarkable industrial and financial turnaround that is likely to be pored over in business schools for years. On April 24th Fiat Group, which as well as car marques includes Iveco, a truckmaker, and CNH, a producer of agricultural and construction equipment, reported a trading profit for the first quarter of €766m ($1.1 billion), 29% more than a year earlier and beating expectations. In the whole year it is aiming for €3.4 billion-3.6 billion.

Good news is no longer unusual: despite a stumble in recent months, the share price has outpaced its closest rivals over the past three years (see chart 1). In 2007 Fiat Group made a record trading profit of €3.2 billion, 66% more than in 2006, while eliminating its net industrial debt. The progress of the once loss-making car business was even more dramatic. Fiat Group Automobiles, which comprises Fiat, Alfa and Lancia, raised its trading profit from €291m to €803m. Ferrari and Maserati chipped in a further €290m. By 2010, Fiat (with joint ventures) expects to make 3.5m vehicles.

This is a far cry from the business Sergio Marchionne walked into in June 2004 when he agreed, at the urging of the Agnelli family, Fiat's dominant shareholder, to take on the job of reviving the company's fortunes. Attempts to trim costs were under way and the tiny new Panda had hinted at a much-needed return to form. But otherwise the picture, especially in cars, was grim.

Held back by either ageing or unappealing models, car production was running at about 70% of its annual capacity of 2.5m. Fiat's Italian factories were notoriously inflexible thanks to intransigent unions and a lack of investment. The group's net debt had risen to €4.4 billion and cash was flowing out at an alarming rate. And a €3 billion convertible bond would fall due in 15 months.

The banks were eventually repaid with the help of a rights issue in late 2005—which would have been impossible to get away without signs of improvement. Before that, however, the issue of Fiat's put option with General Motors had to be resolved. Both troubled companies were looking for a way out of an ill-starred partnership, but Fiat was insisting that to extinguish the option, which gave the group the right to sell its car business to GM, the American firm must pay for the value it represented. But as Fiat's plight worsened, so did the claim to any value in the put.

In turning to Mr Marchionne, a corporate troubleshooter who at the time was running SGS, a big Swiss inspection and certification firm in which they had an interest, the Agnellis knew that it was their last roll of the dice with Fiat. A shambling bear of a man with unruly grey locks and a penchant for shapeless black sweaters and straight talk.

[Edited 2009-01-19 17:49:12]

PS: Pyrex, it is better you look at Portugal.. where the average age of a car is of around 20 years..

[Edited 2009-01-19 17:50:26]

[Edited 2009-01-19 18:03:05]
 
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N328KF
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:44 am

You know the funny thing is that FIAT and GM still share a platform or two.

Another thing -- let me remind you of the last FIAT/Chrysler joint venture: The Chrysler TC.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
Dougloid
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:54 am



Quoting Tugger (Reply 4):
Basically, Daimler didn't want Chrysler moving into Mercedes territory and Chrysler didn't have any activities that Mercedes was interested in. And the worldwide parts sourcing and production just never happened due to brand related concerns.

Well, Daimler Benz got their clocks cleaned on the deal. Which shows that they're not nearly as smart as they think. Any garage mechanic could have told them it was a bad deal at a high price.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:15 am



Quoting N328KF (Reply 11):
You know the funny thing is that FIAT and GM still share a platform or two.

They also share a couple of engines, for example the Alfa V6 uses a block made by Holden.
 
NewAlitalia
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:36 am



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 13):
They also share a couple of engines, for example the Alfa V6 uses a block made by Holden.

Not for long. Alfa is very disappointed.
 
NewAlitalia
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:49 am

Anyway the announcement will be for today. Fiat will enter with the 35% and the option to get another 20%.

Fiat is also interested to use the Chrysler dealers for Iveco in the USA.
 
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:56 am



Quoting NewAlitalia (Reply 15):
Fiat is also interested to use the Chrysler dealers for Iveco in the USA.

That'd probably be via Dodge, not so much the Chrysler brand. Dodge got the Mercedes Sprinter van. I'm guessing this would mean the end of the Sprinter deal.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
NewAlitalia
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:13 pm

AGREEMENT CONFIRMED a few minutes ago.

Congratulation Mr Marchionne. The Fiat CEO is one of the best managers around, i just wish the new AZ boss Mr Colaninno will be able to do the same. I always liked Chrysler and i wish the US car maker will soon be back at the glory of the old great times.


Fiat's vice president and the heir to the Italian auto empire confirmed on Tuesday that the company is in talks with U.S. carmaker Chrysler, news agencies said, and Fiat shares were suspended amid media reports of a possible partnership with the U.S. company.

The ANSA and Apcom news agencies quoted John Elkann, a member of Fiat's founding Agnelli family, as saying that "it's no mystery we are talking, we have been talking for a while," the Associated Press reports.

Fiat shares were suspended from trading as the Milan stock exchange opened Tuesday pending a statement from the company after reports surfaced of a possible partnership with Chrysler.

Elkann did not give details on the negotiations, saying that more information would come from the upcoming statement and a Fiat board meeting on Thursday, ANSA reported.

Fiat spokespeople were in a meeting and not immediately available to confirm Elkann's comments, AP reports.

The Wall Street Journal reported a deal from Fiat and Chrysler could be announced as early as Tuesday in which Fiat could take control of the U.S. company's operations.

Under terms of a pact that is being worked out, Fiat is likely to take a 35% stake in Chrysler by the middle of this year, the Journal reports, citing people familiar with the matter. It would have the option of increasing that to as much as 55%.

The Financial Times reports a person involved in the talks said the companies had signed a memorandum of understanding on the deal.

--

Chrysler will offer the Fiat Group to produce their cars directly in the USA (Fiat will renovate completely the factories and will provide the technology) and Chrysler to produce their cars in Europe.

Fiat should use the Chrylser dealer to sell the Ferrari, Maserati, Fiat 500 (that should be sold like for MINI under the label 500), Alfa Romeo and Iveco.

This should be the cars, apart of Ferrari and Maserati, the Chrysler dealers should sell:

Alfa Romeo (a SUV and the new "big" that will replace the 166 will be available in 2012)

http://www.autoshopitalia.com/public/public/2006/10/alfa-romeo-8c-competizione-widescreen-01112.jpg

http://www.mitoalfaromeo.com/sfondi/brera1.jpg

http://www.desktopcar.net/wallpaper/3799-2/alfa_159_43-1600.jpg

and maybe this? If this will replace the 166

http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/images/102-4-800.jpg

Fiat should also prepare a special version for the US market similar to the Abarth of the new 500 that should be sold under the label 500.
The new 500 has been the Europe's car of the year 2008.

There are voices also of a come back to the USA of the new Lancia Delta that i like a lot.

http://images.paultan.org/images/New_Fiat_500_Abarth_2_Large.jpg



http://static.blogo.it/autoblog/lancia-delta-01/big_delta01.jpg

[Edited 2009-01-20 04:14:56]

[Edited 2009-01-20 04:16:16]

[Edited 2009-01-20 04:21:45]

[Edited 2009-01-20 04:22:38]
 
janmnastami
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:51 pm



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 8):
Fiat is not the most healthy company

2007: a net profit of 2 billions of euro.
2008: a net profit of more than 1,6 billions.
 
JJJ
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:07 pm



Quoting NewAlitalia (Reply 17):
and maybe this? If this will replace the 166

Alfa was searching the market for a a RWD platform for the 166 successor as there's nothing RWD in the current lineup. Surely Chrysler can help here.
 
cptkrell
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:27 pm

Just as it is difficult to predict the weather, the winds change in the industrial world, too. I can see this hookup being a good shot and hope for success. Who knows, Chrysler, just on the last ounce of oxygen connected to their deathbed, may now have a somewhat stronger chance of survival than maybe even GM.

As an anecdote, I don't think I know of anybody (associated with the 'car world' or not) that is not familiar with the Fiat and Alpha Romeo names. Definitely a plus in my book. It will be an interesting ride. ...jack
all best; jack
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:37 pm



Quoting JJJ (Reply 19):
Alfa was searching the market for a a RWD platform for the 166 successor as there's nothing RWD in the current lineup. Surely Chrysler can help here.

That would be interesting, I wonder if Mercedes would allow it since the LX platform is based on w220 s class and w210 e class components.

I thought that the 166 should be built on a downspec quattroporte platform.
 
na
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:38 pm



Quoting NewAlitalia (Reply 17):
AGREEMENT CONFIRMED a few minutes ago.

Wow, thats fast. I read on yahoo, Fiat wants to take 35%, and later upgrade to 55%.

Quoting NewAlitalia (Reply 17):
Alfa Romeo (a SUV and the new "big" that will replace the 166 will be available in 2012)

and maybe this? If this will replace the 166

Fiat should also prepare a special version for the US market similar to the Abarth of the new 500 that should be sold under the label 500.
The new 500 has been the Europe's car of the year 2008.

There are voices also of a come back to the USA of the new Lancia Delta that i like a lot.

Alfa was buried the SUV as much as I heard (thank god, Alfa is no brand that would fit this type of suddenly rapidly dying concept).
The 166 sucessor will surely have more chances now. Recently there were rumours that there would be no new big Alfa, and that Lancia would build the new big (well, upper middle class) sedan of the Fiat group. The photo you show is as much as I know not much more than fantasy.
As for the Delta, that could be a car that would sell in the US with its extravant exterior and superior spaciousness for its class. I have testdriven that car, but I found its not for me. The Fiat Bravo-inherited dashboard is horrible and has zero Lancia-style. In general its no match fo the Alfa 159 (which is of the same size, with less rear space, but more expensive).
The 500 I could also see to sell well in the US.
 
NewAlitalia
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:25 pm



Quoting Na (Reply 22):
Wow, thats fast. I read on yahoo, Fiat wants to take 35%, and later upgrade to 55%.

Yes, we are all surprised, but Mr Marchionne is a great manager and he did a lot of nice surprised since he took over Fiat.
Today for example they said that they want to go on to deal also with other brands. I suppose that they meant Volvo.. The Fiat Group has never abandoned the idea in my opinion to take the Swedish car maker and in this moment Volvo is in a really bad situation.

About the new 169 (that will replace the 166), i am sure that it will not be much different from the picture it is possible to find around. It could be a cool car.

I agree with you that 500 could sell well in the USA too.
 
na
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:00 pm



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 21):
I thought that the 166 should be built on a downspec quattroporte platform.

Too expensive I heard. I´ve been driving big Alfas for the past 17 years, if they would go half the way up to the big Maserati they would loose me as a buyer for sure.

Quoting NewAlitalia (Reply 23):
About the new 169 (that will replace the 166), i am sure that it will not be much different from the picture it is possible to find around. It could be a cool car.

I agree the concept looks nice, though its radically different to the 164 and 166 I so much love. It has some overtones of the Quattroporte.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:34 pm

So, to get it straight, Cerberus took bailout money from the U.S. government to prop up Chrysler and then turned around and sold it to the Italians. Is that a fair assessment?
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NewAlitalia
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:35 pm



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 25):
So, to get it straight, Cerberus took bailout money from the U.S. government to prop up Chrysler and then turned around and sold it to the Italians.

No, you are wrong.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:54 pm



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 25):
So, to get it straight, Cerberus took bailout money from the U.S. government to prop up Chrysler and then turned around and sold it to the Italians. Is that a fair assessment?

First of all Cerberus is diluting its shares of Chrysler to get this deal done, so they are giving up something of real value (provided it survived).

Second, US taxpayers have agreed to provide Chrysler/Cerberus has a LOAN of $4 billion to get them through these financially difficult times. This loan will have to paid back at some future time and they don't really have it yet, in February the automakers requesting the loans have to come back to Congress and present their plan as to how they will become a viable business again and show that they will be able to pay the loan back (with interest).

This deal with Fiat is a critical part of that plan. With Fiat, Chrysler will have greater product breadth for their dealer network, they will be able to get more work for their production plants, they will have access to Fiat's European network and ties and small car expertise, and Fiat and Chrysler will be able to work together on technology and component production. All the stuff that was supposed to happen with Daimler but didn't due to Mercedes fear of brand contamination/dilution. That should not happen with Fiat/Chrysler since they both target similar customers but with different types of vehicles. Each manufacturer has a strength in different vehicle classes.

Chrysler has needed a partner for awhile now to survive in the modern automotive market, I think Fiat is a good match up.

Tugg
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srbmod
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:04 pm



Quoting N328KF (Reply 16):
That'd probably be via Dodge, not so much the Chrysler brand. Dodge got the Mercedes Sprinter van. I'm guessing this would mean the end of the Sprinter deal.

I briefly mentioned that possibility earlier in the thread.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 5):
. I could also see the Fiat Ducato or Iveco Daily sold here as a Dodge (With the Sprinter returning to being an exclusively Freightliner vehicle in the US.).

Daimler-Benz a few years back started back selling the Sprinter under the Freightliner name, so it definitely would not be a total surprise if its' days as a Dodge will be numbered. It's rumored that the Sprinter is tied in with the deal Cerebus made to take over Chrysler, but I would venture to guess that if that is the case, they could easily end their association with the vehicle.

This deal definitely squashes the thoughts that Nissan and Renault were going to make an investment and bring Chrysler into their joint venture. I wonder if the deal with Fiat will affect some of the deals between Chrysler and Nissan (like the next generation Titan being built by Dodge and the small car based off of the Nissan Cube/Renault Clio). This will definitely mean that the Sebring and Avenger replacements will be based off of some things from Fiat family.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:31 pm

This merger could be a good move for both Chrysler and Fiat as they combine their resources to compete in the growing global automotive marketplace. The US market has changed dramatically over the last year when trucks, SUV's and mini vans were so popular before the so-called "oil crisis" and "credit crisis" took their economic toll. Today, the needs of the European, Asian, and American marketplace has converged - buyers want smaller fuel efficient vehicles.

Chrysler needed to partner with a company that could offer it the smaller platforms it needs to compete in today's marketplace. Fiat obviously felt that Chrysler had something that they needed to help them grow their business.

I don't blame Chrysler for looking for a stable partner during these very treacherous times. All of the automakers are scratching to stay alive until this current global financial crisis is finally over. Perhaps Chrysler will FINALLY get the support it needs from Fiat that they never fully received from Daimler.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
MAH4546
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:36 pm



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 28):
Quoting Srbmod (Reply 5):
. I could also see the Fiat Ducato or Iveco Daily sold here as a Dodge (With the Sprinter returning to being an exclusively Freightliner vehicle in the US.).

Daimler-Benz a few years back started back selling the Sprinter under the Freightliner name, so it definitely would not be a total surprise if its' days as a Dodge will be numbered. It's rumored that the Sprinter is tied in with the deal Cerebus made to take over Chrysler, but I would venture to guess that if that is the case, they could easily end their association with the vehicle.

I really don't think Chrysler LLC wants to mess with one of the few successful products they actually have. The Charleston knock-down plant can't build enough of them to the point where they have still have had to import some from Europe.

Not to mention that profit margins on full-size vans are probably the best in the industry.

Freightliner simply does not have the dealer network to support the Sprinter in the United States, simple as that. The Sprinter was launched via Freightliner dealers only, and sales were slow with such a weak dealer network.

Iveco announced plans to enter the United States last year, and Chrysler can help speed this up. Iveco wants to use their own brand-name in the U.S.
a.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:38 pm

And speaking of Daimler, they're on the verge of completely bailing out of Chrysler according to an article published today on MotorAuthority.com:

A spokesman for Daimler AG has confirmed that the company is still attempting to sell its remaining share of Chrysler to Cerberus Capital Management, which originally bought 80.1% of the Auburn Hills carmaker in May of 2007. Last October Daimler was forced to write-down the value of its holding to zero, describing the move to shareholders as merely “a function of accounting,” and this is expected to play a pivotal role in any amount the remaining stake is eventually sold for.

Although no time frame was given, it’s expected that a sale could happen within the first half of the year if both parties agree on the terms. Daimler in particular is keen to distance itself from arguably one of the worst corporate decisions in the automotive industry.

Source: http://www.motorauthority.com/report...share-of-chrysler-to-cerberus.html
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
Dougloid
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:08 am



Quoting Tugger (Reply 27):
First of all Cerberus is diluting its shares of Chrysler to get this deal done, so they are giving up something of real value (provided it survived).

Wasn't Cerberus the three headed dog that guarded the gates of Hades to prevent the escape of any who crossed the River Styx?

Is it just me or does anyone else find this name remarkably offensive?

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 29):
Chrysler needed to partner with a company that could offer it the smaller platforms it needs to compete in today's marketplace. Fiat obviously felt that Chrysler had something that they needed to help them grow their business.

Yes. A functioning dealer and distribution network in the biggest automobile market in the world, which they formerly had zero presence in since the last unfortunate foray.
Also, it might open the way to more IVECO truck sales in the US through an established dealer network.

Let's hope FIAT no longer stands for "Fix it again, Tony."
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
JJJ
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:12 am



Quoting Na (Reply 24):
Too expensive I heard

Right on, that's the very last resort option because of the huge cost involved and also that it might cheapen the Quattroporte image.

I'm sure the 500 can follow the sales success and iconic status of the Mini in the US & Canada as well.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 32):
Let's hope FIAT no longer stands for "Fix it again, Tony."

Models of late regularly make it to the top half of customer satisfaction surveys. The new Panda, for example has topped small car surveys in several countries (the 500 is pretty much a visually modified new Panda).

Fiat's turnaround in quality started on the early to mid-2000's, and although there're still some bad perceptions around, word is starting to go around that you can have a Fiat, Lancia or Alfa that will no longer fall apart after a couple winters.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:28 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 32):

Wasn't Cerberus the three headed dog that guarded the gates of Hades to prevent the escape of any who crossed the River Styx?

Is it just me or does anyone else find this name remarkably offensive?

If you look at their past history it is not only the name that is offensive/creepy. Some people go as far as to say the company has Satanic connections. I don't know about that, but I know for a fact that when they did the IPO of a Japanese bank they owned a few years ago they put up for sale 666,666,666.7 shares...
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:06 am

AutoObserver.com published this information regarding the Chrysler/Fiat Group combination:

"For Chrysler, a partnership with Fiat that brought new small cars as well as perhaps an additional mainstream brand and a new luxury marque would boost both showroom traffic and dealer confidence, noted analysts for IHS Global Insight.

Chrysler has "a dealer network whose size is geared toward a much greater market share than Chrysler currently enjoys [or is likely to enjoy anytime in the near future]," IHS Global Insight said.

The consultant noted that consolidation will continue to occur among U.S. auto dealers "because of customer requirements and strong representation of brands at the point of sale. That requires a certain scale. And when you have more brands using one dealer, essentially, you can achieve economies of scale in the dealer network."

Exactly how vehicles and brands would be aligned under such expansion isn't clear yet. "I would expect to see the Chrysler name on some Fiat products rather than the Fiat name, although I believe that Alfa could be a brand itself," said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research, in Ann Arbor, Michigan."

Source: http://www.autoobserver.com/2009/01/...oming-marketplace-experts-say.html

Fiat has been planning to return to the U.S. market for a long time. I think that there is almost no chance that their soon-to-be released models are not already designed to pass our Federal crash and emissions standards with minor or no modifications. I think that it's probable that the Fiat 500 wasn't already for sale at Chrysler dealerships by the end of 2009.

With Fiat's assistance, Chrysler could still survive. Chrysler could thrive by building the models that they excel at (Chrysler 300, Jeep Wrangler and Cherokee - and the T&C/ Caravan) with the backing of Fiat to help them sell in international markets. Chrysler will also utilize their excess plant capacity by building vehicles for Fiat, especially after Chrysler eliminates the "dead wood" in their current product line-up.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
keesje
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:39 am

I think you'll like the Lancia's. I had two ; classy, sporty station wagon & alcantara Italian furniture and Bose sound installation. Mpg of the common rail turbo diesels was 42mpg.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
srbmod
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:37 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 35):
Chrysler will also utilize their excess plant capacity by building vehicles for Fiat, especially after Chrysler eliminates the "dead wood" in their current product line-up.

Chrysler recently closed their plant in Newark, Delaware (which produced the Durango and Aspen SUVs) and at one point last year, it was rumored that Fiat was interested in the plant to build vehicles for the US market. The word is that the plant needed some infrastructure work as the plant was originally built in the early 1950s. Chrysler put over a billion dollars into the plant back in the late 1990s as part of the plant becoming the Durango (and later Aspen) plant.

http://www.allpar.com/corporate/factories/newark.html

With Fiat's involvement in Chrysler, perhaps this plant will reopen.

I'm definitely wondering what the future holds for the Viper. Chrysler has been actively trying to sell the Viper off. I would guess that the Conner Ave. Plant in Detroit would probably be part of the deal if they end up finding someone willing to buy it. Heck, they ought to just hand it over to either Alfa Romeo or Maserati and let them tweak it a bit and sell it under their banner.


Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 21):
I wonder if Mercedes would allow it since the LX platform is based on w220 s class and w210 e class components.

Heck, the LH platform that preceded it was loosely based off of a platform AMC and Renault had worked on prior to Chrysler buying AMC.

They could always rework the JS mid-sized platform (which was originally developed as part of the Chrysler-Mitsubishi relation but was tweaked when the relationship ended) and perhaps give it a bit of a stretch.
 
cptkrell
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:58 pm

After reading comments from my 'Detroit buddies' I might have to temper the initial enthusiasm I had when I first heard rumblings about the Fiat/Chrysler "deal".

From what I can gather it will be a "non-binding alliance" which means...well you know what THAT means. And as initially structured, Fiat will invest zero dollars into Chrysler operations, relying on the US government loan to provide sustainability. Looks a bit UNsustainable, I'd say.

News and film at 11, I guess. regards...jack
all best; jack
 
Alessandro
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:16 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 32):
Let's hope FIAT no longer stands for "Fix it again, Tony."

In Sweden Fiat has been the fish that swimmed against the tide, one of the few companies that increased their sales during 2008. The 500 seem to sell pretty well, Fiat is a small brand here, but growing.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:41 am



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 37):
With Fiat's involvement in Chrysler, perhaps this plant will reopen.

If Fiat would buy into the refurbishment of Chrysler's Newark plant, that would be incredibly good. Delaware has been hit hard with the downsizing of duPont, MBNA (now BofA), Hercules, etc. As it stands right now, the Chrysler plant is on the verge of being sold and razed by its next-door neighbor, the University of Delaware, who wants to build a engineering and high technology business park on the site according to the Wilmington (DE) News-Journal:

"The future of the Chrysler plant most likely involves non-auto uses -- perhaps a clearing of the entire site for redevelopment as a high-tech business park. That's what University of Delaware officials envision on the property for which the college is now the lone bidder. UD's board of trustees this month approved negotiations with Chrysler to buy the property".

The Boxwood Road GM plant in nearby Newport, Delaware could also be shuttered:

"GM has said it plans to move production of the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky from Boxwood Road to a plant in Bowling Green, Ky., in 2012. After that, the company has no plans to build a car at Boxwood, although it has not said it plans to close the facility.

The company said Thursday it may shrink the Pontiac division to a single model from six following a drop in sales every year since 1999. The surviving model sounds a lot like the Pontiac Solstice, but also could be the Pontiac G8 sedan, introduced just this year in the U.S.

Mark LaNeve, GM's North American sales chief, wouldn't name the remaining Pontiac, but described it as "a very high-appeal, performance-oriented model as opposed to a mainstream high-volume model." It would be less expensive than the Corvette, which starts at about $50,000, LaNeve said."

Source: http://m.delawareonline.com/news.jsp?key=155287&rc=ne

According to GM, Pontiac is now going to be a SINGLE model? It have better be the G8 sport sedan, or better yet, the next generation Monaro (aka GTO) super-coupe that looks like a damn Pontiac GTO, not a Cobalt/G5 coupe on uber-steroids!  drool 
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:54 am

The U.S. Senate has already inserted itself into the potential deal between Fiat and Cerebus/Chrysler. One senator wants the $5.5 billion USD already loaned to Cerebus back, and their request for an additional $3 billion USD in loans to be categorically denied.

"In a letter to President Obama, Senator Robert Menendez of New Jersey said that the U.S. taxpayers should not be responsible for the financial wellbeing of a foreign-backed automaker. Menendez is also a member of the Senate Banking Committee.

“As a potential partnership between Chrysler and Fiat moves forward, I am asking you to address the potentiality of foreign control and require the immediate payback of the loans already dispersed should such a scenario present itself,” Menendez’ letter said.

Source: http://www.leftlanenews.com/us-senat...iate-payback-if-fiat-controls.html
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:41 am



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 39):
Fiat is a small brand here, but growing.

That's why I think Fiat should look into purchasing Saab.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:42 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 41):
One senator wants the $5.5 billion USD already loaned to Cerebus back, and their request for an additional $3 billion USD in loans to be categorically denied.

Hmmm, I don't read that in the article. And the way I read it the senator wants a provision made that if and/or when Fiat does take a controlling interest, the loans should be paid back.

Seems like a good idea (for as much as I know of it) and makes sense to me.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
bahadir
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:41 pm

I want a Grande Punto.. I looovvee that car..
Earthbound misfit I
 
Charles79
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:29 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 41):
The U.S. Senate has already inserted itself into the potential deal between Fiat and Cerebus/Chrysler.

This is exactly what I had in the back of my head regarding this deal. When Congress used taxpayer's money to provide loans to the domestic car companies we had a lively debate here in a.net with users arguing that we had to protect American companies and American workers, to the point that some even suggested that it was our patriotic duty to buy American. Well, this deal certainly changed the game for as I read it Fiat ultimately wants as much as 55% of Chrysler--essentially taking control. I personally think that the Fiat-Chrysler alliance makes great business sense and has great potential but it also shows how the market was going to take care of itself with or without the bailout. I'm certain that Fiat had been looking at Chrysler for months but waited until after government intervention to take action. Very clever I say.

I wish them well and I'm happy that we'll get some great small cars and our workers will remain employed. However, the US Senate may still come and spoil the deal for them. If I were Chrysler and Fiat I would be careful how I state the plan going forward. If it includes too many job cuts or too much profit going abroad I can see the Senate withdrawing the bridge loan. Will be interesting to follow.
 
cptkrell
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RE: Fiat Group Could Enter In The Chrysler Capital

Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:01 pm

Charles79, please re-read my post (Rep # 38); unless these suggested elements in the "deal" are substantially modified, it will be a great thing for Fiat and a give-away by Cerebus (although some of the bosses may get a new house or a Learjet).

Let's make a deal here...You are totally broke and have no means to sustain you and your family and your house. I come along and say "sign your house over to me and I'll let you live there. For a while." Anybody here wanna take that deal? ...jack
all best; jack

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