bok269
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Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:10 pm

President Bush has commuted the sentences of Border Patrol Agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean. The two were convicted and sentenced to 10+ years for shooting a Mexican Drug Smuggler whom they thought was armed.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-01-19-bush-pardons_N.htm

Kudos to President Bush for finally making the proper decision in this case.
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N328KF
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:11 pm

It sounds like the only thing they were really guilty of is trying to cover things up. Makes sense to me that their sentences got commuted.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
NIKV69
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:23 pm

Not much of a surprise, many have been calling for this since they were sentenced. They did obstruct juctice but the sentence was too harsh. I mean Plaxico basically did the same thing and he shot himself instead of a drug dealer and he may not nearly as much time as these two did.
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slider
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:01 pm



Quoting Bok269 (Thread starter):
Kudos to President Bush for finally making the proper decision in this case.

It’s still gutless to not give them the full pardon that they deserve---this is still a welcome relief thankfully. But a pandering last act at acquiescing to the corrupt Mexican government and Jorge Boosh’s last failure as President to protect our borders.

Thank God that Ramos and Compean will be free!!
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:31 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 3):
It’s still gutless to not give them the full pardon that they deserve---this is still a welcome relief thankfully. But a pandering last act at acquiescing to the corrupt Mexican government and Jorge Boosh’s last failure as President to protect our borders.

Couldn't have said it any better. Too little, too late, with no apology. The President and his corrupt US attorneys from Texas sided with a drug dealer and the Mexican government in the end.
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falstaff
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:41 pm



Quoting Bok269 (Thread starter):
Kudos to President Bush for finally making the proper decision in this case.

I am glad GWB did the right thing here.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 4):
The President and his corrupt US attorneys from Texas sided with a drug dealer and the Mexican government in the end.

Which is something I would never think would happen with Mr. Bush.
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AGM100
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:45 pm

[quote=Slider,reply=3]Mexican government and Jorge Boosh's last failure as President to protect our borders.

Slider I dig your frustration ... but as someone who crosses the southern border many times a year .. I can tell you that security has increased enormously since 2001. Frankly its nothing short of a military zone down on the Az Mexico border right now. Check points , observation towers , and lots and lots of border patrol operations. I would not want to have to try to sneak in across that area. So before we bash President Bush , lets get some details together.
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Yellowstone
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:28 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 4):
Couldn't have said it any better. Too little, too late, with no apology. The President and his corrupt US attorneys from Texas sided with a drug dealer and the Mexican government in the end.

By making it clear that attempting to kill a fleeing, unarmed suspect is a crime? Yeah, the guy they shot at was a criminal, but there are rules and laws that govern how government agents go about apprehending criminals. These men violated those laws, and so they are guilty of a crime, even if they believed their actions were right.
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seb146
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:13 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 7):
By making it clear that attempting to kill a fleeing, unarmed suspect is a crime?

The way I heard the story was that the agents believed without a doubt the criminal was armed and they believed their lives were in danger if they did nothing. I got most of the news on this story from a Libretarian radio host. I am glad Bush finally did something right.
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Yellowstone
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:04 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 8):
The way I heard the story was that the agents believed without a doubt the criminal was armed and they believed their lives were in danger if they did nothing.

They quite literally shot the suspect in the ass as he was running away. Even if he was armed, I fail to see how he was posing an imminent threat to them. And given that the agents tried to cover up the shooting, I think the odds are pretty good they knew they had done something wrong.
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NIKV69
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:05 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 4):
Couldn't have said it any better. Too little, too late, with no apology. The President and his corrupt US attorneys from Texas sided with a drug dealer and the Mexican government in the end.

Kind of agree but they did try to cover it up and this is a comprimise.

I just watched Beck on Fox news and one of the wives told him their house was just burglarized and their dogs beaten while she was away visiting him. What a kick in the stomach.
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windy95
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:31 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 4):
Couldn't have said it any better. Too little, too late, with no apology. The President and his corrupt US attorneys from Texas sided with a drug dealer and the Mexican government in the end.

And what it did to the families of these men. It was a terrible deal done to them by the administration through the US attorney.
 
Charles79
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:35 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
Kind of agree but they did try to cover it up and this is a comprimise.

My feelings exactly. They did commit a crime and were convicted, though the "victim" wasn't exactly a boy scout.

As far as the border goes more could always be done to secure it further but lets not undermine what has been done these past 8 years.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:36 am

One problem is that these men still have a felony criminal record. That will mean they will not get certain benefits, be severely limited in their employment choices, never be able to have a legal gun, probably never be able to vote and had the horrible experience of a cop in jail. Only a full pardon could resolve these issues.
Yes, this decision could be seen as political. This keeps the Mexican government and Mexicans in the USA quiet and the political pressure within the USA to let them free is dealt with. They shot a known major drug dealer the public on both sides of the border knows deserved to be dead, but as cops they can't take the law in their own hands as determined in a trial, they made appeals which were rejected and they have served time in jail.
 
itsjustme
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:46 am

Typical Bush move. Do something half-assed. He didn't have the balls to issue a full pardon so this is his way of trying to right an obvious wrong.

Good riddance Mr. President. Enjoy the rest of your life knowing you will go down in history as being the worst American President to hold office.

[Edited 2009-01-19 17:58:21]
 
rfields5421
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:15 am



Quoting Bok269 (Thread starter):
The two were convicted and sentenced to 10+ years for shooting a Mexican Drug Smuggler whom they thought was armed.

No they were not convicted of that.

They were convicted because the evidence shows they were crooked dirty cops who lie under oath and on official reports, who destroy evidence, fake other evidence and try to cover up their actions.

The world, and especially the US, does not need criminals like them wearing a badge.

They are a disgrace and an insult to every honest law enforcement officer in the United States.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 13):
One problem is that these men still have a felony criminal record. That will mean they will not get certain benefits, be severely limited in their employment choices, never be able to have a legal gun, probably never be able to vote and had the horrible experience of a cop in jail.

Good - they got what they deserved.
 
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:25 am



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 14):
Typical Bush move. Do something half-assed. He didn't have the balls to issue a full pardon so this is his way of trying to right an obvious wrong.

I agree with you on this issue. This should've been done a year and a half ago. Much to my consternation, Bush was in lockstep with the Democrats over immigration. Ramos and Compean should have lost their jobs for planting evidence, but shooting a drug dealer in my book is "a-okay."
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itsjustme
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:35 am



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 15):
They are a disgrace and an insult to every honest law enforcement officer in the United States.

As an honest law enforcement officer in the United States to someone who is not, I ask that you not speak for me or my brother officers. These Border Patrol Agents are not a disgrace or an insult. They are political scapegoats, nothing more, nothing less and they deserve a full pardon, not some lame-ass sentence commutation from the worst President our nation will ever see.
 
stratosphere
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:39 am



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 15):
They were convicted because the evidence shows they were crooked dirty cops who lie under oath and on official reports, who destroy evidence, fake other evidence and try to cover up their actions.

Yeah and so they give a known drug smuggler immunity and he gets caught doin it again all the while throwing the book at these two guys. Look I have issues with cops also but your bleeding heart for this scumbag smuggler needs to be directed elsewhere.
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Ag

Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:55 am



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 17):
they deserve a full pardon

Did they or did they not commit a crime by attempting to alter evidence?

Did they or did they not commit a crime by lying under oath?

Did they or did they not commit a crime by shooting a fleeing, unarmed individual?
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vikkyvik
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:00 am



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 15):

Far as I can tell from the article, they were convicted of shooting the guy.

Maybe they were also convicted of obstruction of justice or whatever - I don't know.

Far as I'm concerned, they probably don't deserve the rap for the shooting.

But hell, if they obstructed justice, then they should be punished for that (perhaps they already have been). And if that's a felony, as I presume it is, then so be it.

In my view, whatever happened to the drug smuggler after this incident is immaterial. If he was smuggling, then he should be in jail too (as he apparently is). He might have deserved getting shot in the ass more than anyone else; but the obstruction of justice has seemingly little to do with that.
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WarRI1
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:02 am



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 17):

As an honest law enforcement officer in the United States to someone who is not, I ask that you not speak for me or my brother officers. These Border Patrol Agents are not a disgrace or an insult. They are political scapegoats, nothing more, nothing less and they deserve a full pardon, not some lame-ass sentence commutation from the worst President our nation will ever see.

I agree 100 %
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NIKV69
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:17 am



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 14):
Typical Bush move. Do something half-assed. He didn't have the balls to issue a full pardon so this is his way of trying to right an obvious wrong.

Good riddance Mr. President. Enjoy the rest of your life knowing you will go down in history as being the worst American President to hold office.

He didn't do anything half assed, if he pardons these two it sends a message that you can obstuct justice and do crooked stuff and get away with it. Even though it was a drug dealer they shot they behaved deplorably as law enforcement. BTW the worst president will always be Jimmy Carter.

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 15):
No they were not convicted of that.

They were convicted because the evidence shows they were crooked dirty cops who lie under oath and on official reports, who destroy evidence, fake other evidence and try to cover up their actions.

The world, and especially the US, does not need criminals like them wearing a badge.

They are a disgrace and an insult to every honest law enforcement officer in the United States.

Absolutely which is why GWB did what he did. They get out of jail but don't get the free ride and full pardon.
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RussianJet
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:36 am



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 16):
but shooting a drug dealer in my book is "a-okay."

So let's just go round 'em all up and shoot 'em right there and then, eh? I prefer a system where due process takes place and the courts decide who has done what and what they deserve as a result. Extra-judicial executions are not a good thing.
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rfields5421
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:54 pm



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 17):
As an honest law enforcement officer in the United States

So not reporting discharge of weapons in the perfornance of their official duties, destroying and covering up evidence, lying to superiors and the public, lying on official reports - those are okay and the behavior of "Honest" law enforcement officers.

I disagree and anyone who thinks those actions are legal and honest does not understand the meaning of the word in my opinion.

When I took my oaths to defend this nation, those words meant something to me - and still do. Just because I no longer wear the uniform of this nation does not release me for those promises I made. I hold others who choose to take similar oaths to that standard also.

That includes owning up to my mistakes and taking the consequences like a man, not whining like a dirty lying rat.

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 20):
Far as I'm concerned, they probably don't deserve the rap for the shooting.

Had they reported the shooting and their reasons for shooting - it would have been a good shoot, or at worst a minor reprimand.

What convinced the US attorney to charge them, and the jury to convict them was their lies. They proved themselves to be dishonest and untrustworthy - in violation of their oaths to uphold the law.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:19 pm



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 24):

What convinced the US attorney to charge them, and the jury to convict them was their lies. They proved themselves to be dishonest and untrustworthy - in violation of their oaths to uphold the law.

I get that. So charge them with obstruction of justice, or perjury, or whatever.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
slider
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:20 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 6):
Slider I dig your frustration ... but as someone who crosses the southern border many times a year .. I can tell you that security has increased enormously since 2001

I’m sure it has. But now you have a border patrol that is afraid of doing their jobs…we have drug wars and shootouts on OUR side of the border, the Mexican Army crossing over at times as well. The shanghai job on Ramos & Compean does nothing to send a strong signal to our brave men and women who are doing a thankless job trying to protect our nation.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 6):
So before we bash President Bush , lets get some details together.

I have plenty of details. Bush has done NOTHING to protect our borders. Some incremental guards along the border is a pittance. Our illegal immigration problem was summarily ignored by Bush in 8 years of his administration. It is one of the areas in which it is clear to safely say Bush utterly and wholly failed.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 13):
One problem is that these men still have a felony criminal record. That will mean they will not get certain benefits, be severely limited in their employment choices, never be able to have a legal gun, probably never be able to vote and had the horrible experience of a cop in jail. Only a full pardon could resolve these issues. Yes, this decision could be seen as political.

Exactly—that’s why they should be fully pardoned. Because in the eyes of the law, they’re still criminals.

The histrionics over them shooting some drug dealer in the ass cracks me up.

http://lighthousepatriotjournal.word...concerning-the-ramos-compean-case/

Not only was this a setup, with Sutton completely abusing his position, but then these men were beaten in jail. Their wives had very restricted access to them, as documented by escorted visits from media members.

God bless these men who remain faithful to the country that betrayed them. God bless Patty and Monica—their wives, who have borne the burden, carried the weight of keeping their families together—NONE of us can even begin to contemplate the nightmare and the trials that they have had to bear.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:24 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 26):
The histrionics over them shooting some drug dealer in the ass cracks me up.

They shot a guy and then lied about it. It is not a small deal. In doing so they undermined every officer out there. Drug dealers or not, there are standards that should rightly be expected to be adhered to. In this case they clearly didn't.
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Yellowstone
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:33 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 26):
The shanghai job on Ramos & Compean does nothing to send a strong signal to our brave men and women who are doing a thankless job trying to protect our nation.

Yes it does - it sends the message that it's not okay to shoot people who pose no threat to you, then try to cover up what you did. Which seems like a pretty good message to send.

Most of us in this country happen to believe in the rule of law. You break the law, you get punished. Doesn't matter if you're a drug dealer, or a president, or a border patrol agent - everyone is equal under the law. You can't excuse law enforcement officer's crimes just because they are "trying to protect us." That's the first step toward a police state.
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itsjustme
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:09 pm



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 24):
those are okay and the behavior of "Honest" law enforcement officers.

That's not what I said. I said they are not a disgrace or an insult.

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 24):
When I took my oaths to defend this nation

So are you or are you not a law enforcement officer? If you are not, then again I ask that you not speak for those of us who are.

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 24):
Had they reported the shooting and their reasons for shooting - it would have been a good shoot, or at worst a minor reprimand.

I disagree. I believe the agents immediately realized the political shit storm they were now involved in and it was for that reason they tampered with evidence.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 28):

Yes it does - it sends the message that it's not okay to shoot people who pose no threat to you

I must have missed the memo that reads drug dealing felons pose no threat to me or the citizens I'm sworn to protect.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:27 pm



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 29):
I must have missed the memo that reads drug dealing felons pose no threat to me or the citizens I'm sworn to protect.

But you got the one that says you can shoot anyone you suspect of being a drug dealer?
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vikkyvik
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:30 pm



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 29):
I must have missed the memo that reads drug dealing felons pose no threat to me or the citizens I'm sworn to protect.

So if I'm mistaken as a drug smuggler by a policeman, I can expect to get shot?

I must have missed that memo.

Oh, and as a citizen, I believe that law enforcement officers who have lied and tampered with evidence (and are now felons) pose a threat to me. So.....

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 29):
That's not what I said. I said they are not a disgrace or an insult.

Obviously, that's a very subjective matter. To me as a person and a citizen (not a law enforcement officer, not that it really matters), knowing that the folks who are sworn to protect me might tamper with evidence and lie about it doesn't exactly sit well.

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 29):
I disagree. I believe the agents immediately realized the political shit storm they were now involved in and it was for that reason they tampered with evidence.

Does that make a difference? They still tampered with evidence.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
RussianJet
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:31 pm



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 31):
Does that make a difference? They still tampered with evidence.

It's speculation, and even if true excuses nothing.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:38 pm



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 29):
I must have missed the memo that reads drug dealing felons pose no threat to me or the citizens I'm sworn to protect.

Our legal system has wisely decided to set up separate institutions for exercising police power and judicial power. It is not the role of the border agent to decide that a suspect is guilty of drug dealing and that his crimes should be punished by death; it is instead their role to apprehend the suspect and deliver him to the judicial system, so that his guilt and punishment may be decided there. Border agents, like other police officers, are armed so that they may respond to immediate threats to their safety or the safety of those around them. A fleeing, unarmed suspect does not pose an immediate threat, and so the use of deadly force is not warranted.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
AGM100
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:05 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 26):
Our illegal immigration problem was summarily ignored by Bush in 8 years of his administration. It is one of the areas in which it is clear to safely say Bush utterly and wholly failed.

NO .. It was handled like most things the President did ... off the news paper headlines and slow and steady. I agree in some ways with you that as far a legislation goes he has been off the chart . But , the boots on the ground and the eyes in the sky have increased immensely.

Quoting Slider (Reply 26):
The shanghai job on Ramos & Compean does nothing to send a strong signal to our brave men and women who are doing a thankless job trying to protect our nation.

Our group does allot to help our border guys and ladies . And I am glad the President commuted the sentences . But these two guys did not follow procedure , and when you don't follow procedure in the matter of a shooting it is wrong. The sentence was way to tough , but they need to be disciplined in the matter. They themsleves have admitted they lied about the incedent , and that it was not exactly like they claimed.
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rfields5421
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:34 pm



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 29):
I disagree. I believe the agents immediately realized the political shit storm they were now involved in and it was for that reason they tampered with evidence.

Maybe, maybe not - you're probably more closely attuned to the current political climate within the US Border Patrol than I am.

But when they chose to try and cover up their action, they crossed the line and became the criminals they had sworn to protect this country against. That makes them a disgrace and an insult to honest law enforcement officers.

There is no grey area, either the officers uphold the law, all laws, even those they may personally disagree with, or they should not be wearing a badge.

Such actions are what continually erodes the public confidence in their law enforcement officers. That crimes are apparently justifiable if committed by someone with a badge, but not if committed by a civilian. And it is scary to see their actions defended by others with badges.

My understanding is at worst these two men made a career ending mistake.

I made two of those in my 20 years in the US Navy. Both times I owned up to what I had done, and thankfully neither time anyone was injured and I was not thrown out. No I was not a law enforcement professional, but like every senior enlisted man was involved in too many criminal actions, from apprehension to sitting on a few courts martials.

But I did not LIE about my actions.

Liars don't deserve our trust and certainly do not deserve a badge.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:37 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 28):
it sends the message that it's not okay to shoot people who pose no threat to you, then try to cover up what you did.

I think the judgement of no threat is unsubstantiated. There is a very real difference between deciding in a split second in the field if someone is a threat and sitting back playing Monday morning quarterback.

But I fully agree the message that cover ups should not be tolerated needs to be make loud and clear.

We can forgive mistakes, we should not forgive deception and lies.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:39 pm



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 25):
So charge them with obstruction of justice, or perjury, or whatever.

They were also charged with those crimes, and convicted of some of them.

The US Attorney did, in my opinion, misuse the law to compound the severity of their crimes by applying a statue about use of a gun in the commission of a crime.

I expect either the courts to overturn that part of the conviction, or the Congress to correct the law.
 
DC10extender
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RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:48 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 28):
Yes it does - it sends the message that it's not okay to shoot people who pose no threat to you

You can't say he didn't pose a threat unless you were there. You have no idea. So what, you want to make leo's so fearful of using their weapons that they are victims of violence? What, do you want someone to take a minimum of 3 shots at me before I can return fire?

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 33):
A fleeing, unarmed suspect does not pose an immediate threat, and so the use of deadly force is not warranted.

I don't think you have any right to make that assumption. Just because someone is running away doesn't mean he isn't a threat to us. You can still legally shoot someone who is fleeing if you believe they will pose a threat to either you or the population at large if he escapes. The cover up was wrong but it is people like you that made them make the mistake of trying to cover it up. You people are willing to throw anyone under the bus to make a point.
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RussianJet
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:00 pm



Quoting DC10extender (Reply 38):
You can't say he didn't pose a threat unless you were there. You have no idea

You weren't there either. We do know, however, that they tried to cover up what they did, and that they were convicted in a court of law. Suggests something was, to put it mildly, rather amiss.
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vikkyvik
Posts: 11860
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Bush Commutes Sentences Of Convicted Border Agents

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:00 pm



Quoting DC10extender (Reply 38):
The cover up was wrong but it is people like you that made them make the mistake of trying to cover it up. You people are willing to throw anyone under the bus to make a point.

Sorry, but that's a bunch of BS right there.

No one (not me, you, Yellowstone, no one) MADE them cover it up. It they were convinced that they had used perfectly justified force, they should have just been honest about it.

I don't know whether their shooting of the guy was justified. I don't really care at this point. Long as they still get their due for lying and tampering with evidence.
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