747400sp
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Why No Seat Belts In US Buses Or Rail Cars?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:44 pm

March /9/ 2003, a Gold & Silver tour bus ram the rear of a Hebaragi & Lemi tour bus on I-15, in this crash, 52 people was injured. March /2/ 2007, a driver of an Executive Coach Luxury Travel Inc. T2145 carrying Bluffton Baseball team, mistake a off ramp for a HOV lane and the bus went off a over pass killing 7 people and injuring 21 people.
One thing both these accidents have one thing in common, both buses, (like most buses in the United States) did not have seat belts.
Why after years of bus crashes and train derailments, there has not been a law to put seat belt in buses and rail cars? If memory serve me right, I remember that in one of the countries in Europe which I visit, the buses had seat belts.
Now there are some US coaches that has dose seat belt, for example Van Hools TD925, but it is also a double decker, so they put them on it for more safety.
Some people may say, most people today, travel by air, but there has been a rise in long distant bus tours in the last few years, and train travel is pretty popular in the east coast. So would it not be a good ideal to make highway coaches and rail cars as safe as possible? Now how can you have a safe coach or rail car, if there is no seat belts on it?
 
tz757300
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RE: Why No Seat Belts In US Buses Or Rail Cars?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:54 pm

Well, I would kinda agree that buses could use seat belts, but here's a thought. Most bus drivers are very experienced and drive like that should. They are also large unless they run into something of comparable size (as noted above), its not that horrendous. Buses are pretty safe compared to all other forms of road travel.

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
train travel is pretty popular in the east coast. So would it not be a good ideal to make highway coaches and rail cars as safe as possible?

See, I disagree on this one. Train travel is a pretty safe form of transportation in regards to accidents. You hear about road accidents all the time, but rail ones are few and far between. Most accidents are caused by error of the conductor or something else. Esp in the northeast, tracks are always maintained and trains have in-cab signaling to prevent any kind of error, like running into a stopped train, etc. Seat belts in trains, IMO, are not needed.
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lhr380
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RE: Why No Seat Belts In US Buses Or Rail Cars?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:55 pm

I have always wondered that.

I take buses and trains all the time, and some buses I have been on have been so full, I would not like to know what would happen if it suddenly hit something, especially with the big window at the front, and all the steel and metal.

Have only been in one incident on a bus. At a roundabout, the car in front suddenly stopped and we rear ended it. Car was a write-off, bus was only slightly damaged, but we really felt the force of it with one lad flying off his seat.
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ACDC8
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RE: Why No Seat Belts In US Buses Or Rail Cars?

Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:56 pm

As far as legal requirments go, who's respnosible to make sure everyone has their seatbelts fastened? The driver is too busy driving, so he can't constantly do checks to make sure seatbelts are being used. It would be completely impossible to make sure people are using seatbelts in transit buses. And would the driver be held liable in a crash if it was found out that passengers weren't using their seatbelts?

Theres been discussion around here about seatbelts in schoolbuses. One side thinks its a good idea and another thinks its a bad idea. One of the questions that keeps coming up is what if the bus ends up in a river or passengers are knocked out, the seatbelt can than be a serious problem.

Personally, I'm neither for or against them. If they make it legal requirments I have no problem with that, however, if they make the driver responsible for their use then I'll raise a stink.
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aerlingus747
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RE: Why No Seat Belts In US Buses Or Rail Cars?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:07 am

In Ireland it is a requirement for coaches to have seat belts because of accidents, buy every time I go on them no one seems to wear them.
 
ACDC8
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RE: Why No Seat Belts In US Buses Or Rail Cars?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:11 am



Quoting AerLingus747 (Reply 4):
In Ireland it is a requirement for coaches to have seat belts because of accidents, buy every time I go on them no one seems to wear them.

There may be a legal requirement in the coach being equipped with seatbelts however no legal requirement in their use. We have such laws for smaller buses here.
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Why No Seat Belts In US Buses Or Rail Cars?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:14 am

I much rather have a seatbelt than not, specially in high speed trains. As safe as they are, you can always do better. I don't say they should enforce them but at least make them available.

As a pilot I learned it's stupid to not have your seatbelt on at all times, no matter how smooth the ride is or how safe planes are compared to other modes of transportation.
 
ACDC8
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RE: Why No Seat Belts In US Buses Or Rail Cars?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:22 am

As a driver though, you should always have your seatbelt on ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-fZ0DMRyRk

... lol!
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777ER
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RE: Why No Seat Belts In US Buses Or Rail Cars?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:10 pm

When I did a European Contiki tour in August last year, our coach had seat belts, but no one seemed to wear them, even though its law in the EU. The only times we had on our seatbelts was when we got stopped by the German police and when we were entering Switzerland.
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cptkrell
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RE: Why No Seat Belts In US Buses Or Rail Cars?

Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:56 pm

Probably the answer to your question is "money" and no real support from either the public or manufacturers or lawmakers.

Seatbelts for coaches and trains would be a little more complicated than just a "retrofit" taking into consideration that for a real safety implimentation it would require more than just bolting a belt system to the floorpan. If the apparatus were to work in a real-world scenario, there would be substantial engineering upgrades required. Also read "weight" into the equation resulting in a lower GVW, hence more power and/or less passengers. For new originally-designed public vehicles these safety measures could be bench-marked at a lesser cost/performance impact on the vehicle, but again, there doesn't seem to be a public outcry to get designers and lawmakers to put this issue on their "front burner".

I can remember when FoMoCo offered a "safety" package option on their 1957 Fairlanes which included padded dash, deep dish steering wheel, seat belts and maybe another item or two and I think the company sold about a dozen  Smile or so of these options. The real sellers were the Paxton-Supercharged V-8 option. Hell, I had to install my own seat belts and outside rear view mirrors in my 1960 Impala. Nowadays, safety is a prime selling point for a new car. Not so yet in public transpo vehicles. regards...jack
all best; jack
 
747400sp
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RE: Why No Seat Belts In US Buses Or Rail Cars?

Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:37 pm



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 7):
As a driver though, you should always have your seatbelt on ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-fZ0DMRyRk

... lol!





You are so right! Big grin
 
JFKMan
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RE: Why No Seat Belts In US Buses Or Rail Cars?

Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:30 pm

By law, they don't need seatbelts? That sounds wrong...


And why are we allowed stand on the bus (which I am forced to do about everyday) when you can't even sit in your car without a seat belt on?!?!? Fishy....
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Why No Seat Belts In US Buses Or Rail Cars?

Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:49 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 7):
As a driver though, you should always have your seatbelt on ...

Well joking aside, bus drivers in the U.S. do have seat belts and must wear them even though passengers do not.

Quoting JFKMan (Reply 11):
By law, they don't need seatbelts? That sounds wrong...
And why are we allowed stand on the bus (which I am forced to do about everyday) when you can't even sit in your car without a seat belt on?!?!? Fishy....

That's because your car has 3-point safety belts which would be extremely difficult to install in a bus. Lap belts won't offer much additional safety and increase the risk of organ damage in the abdominal cavity.

Ultimately though, more passengers are killed boarding and exiting buses than in collisions. Crushing deaths are a bigger problem.

[Edited 2009-01-24 13:51:59]
 
cptkrell
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RE: Why No Seat Belts In US Buses Or Rail Cars?

Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:10 pm

And to add to ACDC8s (Rep 7) and DFWRevs (Rep 12) it is pretty much a given that the operators of vehicles (ground or airborne) are always in more control of their operators functions whilst being securely at the controls.

The necessity of the operator (pilot, driver, or whatever) MUST maintain the best control of their device at all times (something that the "I don't believe in seat belts" dim-bulbs can't fathom) is an obvious. Not worthy of much, if any, debate.

Right now I can't say a whole hell of a lot more than I said in my initial reply (# 9) but am certainly open to other thesis.

BTW, will "safety" be a real concern with PAX doing a mile-higher in one of Virgin's proposed bedrooms in an A380? Just wondering. Might be almost parallel to Johnny and Kathy get getting bumped in the head when some goofball T-bones their middle-school Bluebird.

Again...just wondering....regards...jack
all best; jack
 
aa757first
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RE: Why No Seat Belts In US Buses Or Rail Cars?

Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:00 pm



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 3):

Theres been discussion around here about seatbelts in schoolbuses. One side thinks its a good idea and another thinks its a bad idea. One of the questions that keeps coming up is what if the bus ends up in a river or passengers are knocked out, the seatbelt can than be a serious problem.

The main argument I've heard against that was that kids could (accidentally or on purpose) hurt each other with the metal buckles.
 
747400sp
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RE: Why No Seat Belts In US Buses Or Rail Cars?

Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:42 am

This video shows a MCI bus crashing into a wall, the passenger had on seat belts, if they did not have on seat belts, they would flew all over the bus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrZr-QZbfxo

I believe these are three point seat belts, like the ones in cars.
 
flybyguy
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RE: Why No Seat Belts In US Buses Or Rail Cars?

Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:31 am



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 3):
Theres been discussion around here about seatbelts in schoolbuses.

I was riding schoolbuses in the mid 90s when seatbelts became standard on new build yellow buses. I can say that most kids never used them and no adults ever made them compulsory to put on. I do remember that they became pretty gross and created trip and tangle hazards when the belts fell through the benches and onto the floor.

Personally, with regard to public transport, the traveling public is going to have to accept that there is some minute hazard in not having seat belts. Have you guys seen the seats on shuttle buses and commuter trains?... they barely get the seats clean everyday... the last thing I need to put around my waist is a gross seat belt soaked in who knows what.
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Brendan03
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RE: Why No Seat Belts In US Buses Or Rail Cars?

Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:46 pm

Hi all

Public, Local buses in Australia generally don't have seatbelts and trains never do as far as I know
However long distance coaches have seatbelts which have I think are optional for passengers but are required for operators to spec into their orders.
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