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Crew
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Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:41 pm

Episode 11 of this discussion already. The previous installment may be found here:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ms/non_aviation/read.main/2033400/

Please continue the discussion here.
Please use moderators@airliners.net to contact us.
 
EZEIZA
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:44 pm

Wow ... 11 threads .. is this an all time high for anet?

sorry for the off topic, but it does show how sensitive this issue is

back to topic then ....
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
RussianJet
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:50 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 218):
Well maybe over there but not where I live . I dont hear anything pro Nazi or Anti Jewish. I hear more anti Islam and Middle Eastern than I do anything else. If the slightest anti Jewish thing happens in UK or Ireland its major news. I remember when some thugs put graffiti on a Jewish headstone. It was a major event and widely reported and condemned.

That is very true. Whilst in many places anti-semitism and other forms of racism are very much alive and kicking, it is not fair to overlook massive efforts and improvements made in defeating racism of all forms in many countries around the world.
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baroque
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:55 pm



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 1):
Wow ... 11 threads .. is this an all time high for anet?

Zackerly the question I was going to ask with exactly the same thought. Withdrawing ain't the end.

If they pay to get in they will pay to get out of it too comes to mind. We know a bit about how much repairs to Gaza cost, I wonder what three weeks of bombing cost Israel in dollar terms and who was paying.

It will be interesting to find what Abbas tells his US interlocutors. If he has any sense, it will be to find some way to speak to Hamas. Abbas needs the US to talk to Hamas too, otherwise it might bring an early end to Abbas. The other thing that needs to happen is that Abbas needs to be presented with some major gains in terms of land. And not the holes is a Swiss cheese either.
 
NAV20
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:04 pm

Dtwclipper - from previous thread:-

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 214):
Since the Second World War, anti-Semitism is no longer endemic. In fact, until this Gaza business, my impression was that it was pretty much a thing of the past.

Wow, I can't believe you said that. I don't agree with a lot of your positions on Israel et. al., but you are way off on this one.

This is pretty much off topic and deserving of a different thread, but let me tell you, flat out, you are wrong with a great big W!

Anti-semetism, state sponsored or not, has never gone away, and is just as virulent as always.


Where, Dtwclipper? Certainly not in Australia or the UK, to my certain knowledge? Personally, I don't know if you're Christian or Jewish or Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist or whatever. And I honestly don't care........

As a Catholic, I have actually been discriminated against, to a certain extent. For example, when I lived in Britain, I was well aware that the law prohibited me from ever being King........and in my brush with the Army, it was a bit rough to be put on fatigues on Sunday mornings when all the 'C of E' blokes were having a cushy time on church parade.........

I tended to count myself well off. After all, a few hundred years ago, I'd have been burned at the stake......  

But I never 'felt the need' for any sort of 'national home'...........  

[Edited 2009-01-22 08:06:03]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:13 pm

I think this is off topic, and needs to be placed in a new thread, however:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 4):
Certainly not in Australia

In 2006, the Executive Council of Australian Jewry (ECAJ) recorded 442 incidents, 47 per cent above the annual average. Serious or violent incidents were 74 per cent above average. Anti-Semitic graffiti was at its highest level since records have been kept.
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=5939

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 4):
For example, when I lived in Britain, I was well aware that the law prohibited me from ever being King.......

I wasn't aware that the job was open.
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EZEIZA
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:14 pm

I don't want to pull this thread off topic (although related), but IMHO although there is still anti-semitism, racism these days, especially in Europe is more related to immigration .. but as I said, let's not get off topic.
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
NAV20
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:25 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 5):
I wasn't aware that the job was open.

Sure it was (and is), Dtwclipper. You just have to be the closest living relative to the last guy (or girl). Unless you're a 'Papist,' they're automatically disqualified. There've been plenty of cases of people (actually, girls, so sex discrimination comes into it) who marry Royals having to switch to the 'C. of E.'

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 5):
I think this is off topic, and needs to be placed in a new thread

Why so? My original post was in response to someone else who was talking about the need for a 'Jewish national home.' Surely that means that the whole business of the setting-up of the State of Israel is religion-based?

If not - what else is the whole idea based on?

[Edited 2009-01-22 08:27:59]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:32 pm

[

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 5):
I wasn't aware that the job was open.

Sure it was (and is), Dtwclipper. You just have to be the closest living relative to the last guy (or girl). Unless you're a 'Papist,' they're automatically disqualified. There've been plenty of cases of people (actually, girls, so sex discrimination comes into it) who marry Royals having to switch to the 'C. of E.'

You know I was tying to add a bit of humo(u)r, I guess it didn't work.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
Why so? My original post was in response to someone else who was talking about the need for a 'Jewish national home.' Surley that means that the whole basis of the setting up of the State of Israel is religion-based?

If not - what IS the whole idea based on?

It is because you were discussing Gaza and Israel. Opening up the can of worms that anti-semitism will bring up is deserved of another place.

On that topic, I believe that all one must do is scratch the surface and you will find the old jew haters are still alive and kicking. "Jews control the Banks, The Media, Hollywood" etc, etc, is something you hear very often, be it out right or implied.
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OA260
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:38 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 8):
Opening up the can of worms that anti-semitism will bring up is deserved of another place.

Not really. We have seen Jewish Israeli's write Anti Islamic and Anti Palestinian slogans on walls of people who were refugeed.

So what makes it ok to do this in Gaza ?
 
us330
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:50 pm

Ezeiza writes "And not to mention the use of illegal weapons"

Sorry, but I still don't buy the concept of there being illegal conventional (conventional meaning non-nuclear) weapons.

Baroque writes: "As Nav and others have tried to explain, the initial window for a single state has passed, but now the window for a two state solution is also closing back to a single state one due to demographics.

In a relatively short time (in relation to the length of this dispute) there will be three options:

1. Single state solution dominated by Palestinians.

2. As above with the Palestinians in some Romanesque second class citizen status or

3. A major bit of genocide.

Best to make some quick concessions and arrive at the comparative safety of a two state solution I would have thought. But then that was obvious after Oslo and look what happened with the rate of illegal settlements after Oslo!!"

I don't disagree--in my posts I have always been in favor of two-state solution.

Nav20 writes "But do you (or anyone) really want the present situation - constant civil strife, huge racially-based (or 'ethnically- based') injustice, and a bloody 'shooting war' every five years or so - to go on for another 'hundred years or so'?"

Nobody wants that, but I think establishing a single state right now would basically condense all those deaths into what would become a bloodbath of a civil war. There are two many differences (economic, political, social, etc.) and unresolved issues that exist right now for a single state to exist. Besides, what incentive would there be for the Jewih Israelis to agree to it, knowing that they would be outnumbered and risk any sense of security, however fleeting, that they currently have?
From a non-participant's perspective, yes a single state may look good, but for the Jewish Israelis, they would gladly take the scenario that you described instead of the likely alternative (which I described).

Nav20 writes "Since the Second World War, anti-Semitism is no longer endemic. In fact, until this Gaza business, my impression was that it was pretty much a thing of the past."

Sorry, but I have to agree with DTWclipper on this one--you couldn't be more wrong. Anti-Semitism is alive and present all over the world. It may not be as prevalent and obvious in the U.K. or Australia, but there will always be a segment of the population that harbors this sentiment, a segment which always tends to be more vocal whenever Israel is in the news. As increasing numbers of immigrants arrive from Arab countries (where anti-Semitism is most definitely present, and newspapers routinely cite the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as a valid source, spread all sorts of blasphemy like how the Jews use the blood of non-Jewish children in the making of matzah, and repeat centuries old stereotypes of Jews as greedy moneylenders that are the puppetmasters of the world), Western Europe and Australia will likely see an increase in both anti-Semitic rhetoric and incidents.

The U.S. has its own fair share of anti-Semites and anti-Semitic organizations, like the neo-Nazis, the KKK, and the like, as well as more subtle organizations, like those that call for the conversion of all Jews. For whatever reason, the african-american community is also a harbor of a small, but surprisingly large, number of anti-Semites, like Farrakhan and his followers (one would think that the Jewish and the african american communities in the U.S. would be close, considering their minority status, and how many of the groups that are anti-Black are also anti-Jewish as well, but this isn't always the case for whatever reason).

The anti-defamation league's website is a great resource for learning more.

Nav20 writes "So why, exactly, do you (and others) appear to feel that there is any particular or pressing need for any sort of 'Jewish homeland'?"

Because of the long history of persecution that the Jews have had, including the Holocaust. History does repeat itself, and while I would like to be positive and think that "Never Again" will truly mean "Never Again," I can't be sure. Jews need a homeland as a guard against a possible repeat. It may not be the perfect security blanket, but it is the most effective. There needs to be someplace where we can go.

Russianjet writes "I would disagree. Even on a small scale, poor standards of behaviour and ill-discipline such as this only serve to breed yet more hate and disrespect. It certainly has an effect on the conflict, in the longer term even if not immediately"

You still haven't addressed the question of priorities and limited resources though--who would you rather spend your time, money, and energy investigating: graffiti or a civilian death?

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 4):
But I never 'felt the need' for any sort of 'national home'...........

That's also because catholicism is just a religion...judaism tends to be both a religion, and an ethno-cultural grouping.
 
NAV20
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:55 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 8):
You know I was tying to add a bit of humo(u)r, I guess it didn't work.

For what it's worth, Dtwclipper, I was trying to do the same thing.  Smile

But please just give a straight answer to a straight question.

What is the underlying reason for people of Jewish descent, from all over the world, way back in the 1930s, determining to take land that had undeniably belonged to the Palestinians for many centuries - by force, with many deaths?

And why is the same process going on, even now, 60 years later? With just as many more deaths?
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
RussianJet
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:52 pm



Quoting Us330 (Reply 10):
You still haven't addressed the question of priorities and limited resources though--who would you rather spend your time, money, and energy investigating: graffiti or a civilian death?

All of it. If you want to go mounting invasions you have to accept responsibility for all the behaviour of your troops. You don't just get to pick and choose which abuses you'll investigate, or at least you shouldn't, anyway.
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allstarflyer
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:08 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 3):
I wonder what three weeks of bombing cost Israel in dollar terms and who was paying.

Who's charging Israel, and will they accept the charges?

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 12):
If you want to go mounting invasions you have to accept responsibility for all the behaviour of your troops.

On the whole, they'll probably get more commendations than they will reprimands.
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RussianJet
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:12 pm



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 13):
On the whole, they'll probably get more commendations than they will reprimands.

No kidding.
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AGM100
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:18 pm



Quoting Us330 (Reply 10):
1. Single state solution dominated by Palestinians.

Another state dominated by Muslim extremists ... sounds wonderful ... real progress for man kind. ? Just mixing it up a bit ...

Why not just have them live under the Israeli system .. which at its core would give them rights to live however they want. When I lived in Israel , we heard the prayers from the mosques 25 times aday .. they were free to practice there religion . Arabs worked at the hotel up the street and at lived in our neighborhood. What the hell is the problem ? Could it be... never mind.
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OA260
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:23 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 15):
Why not just have them live under the Israeli system .

Why should they live under an Israeli system? Why didnt the Jews live under a British system?
 
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par13del
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:46 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 3):
It will be interesting to find what Abbas tells his US interlocutors. If he has any sense, it will be to find some way to speak to Hamas. Abbas needs the US to talk to Hamas too, otherwise it might bring an early end to Abbas. The other thing that needs to happen is that Abbas needs to be presented with some major gains in terms of land. And not the holes is a Swiss cheese either.

Think you are forgetting one big group here, the Europeans and the EU, they presently are not speaking to Hamas either.

Certainely you do not want the new US president to be like GWB and go it alone Smile
 
EZEIZA
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:53 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 15):
Another state dominated by Muslim extremists ... sounds wonderful ... real progress for man kind. ? Just mixing it up a bit ...

So you are aldo one of those that considers Palestinian to be "animals"  Wink

You know, they are not all "muslim extremists" ... maybe the progress of mankind should start in our own minds, and then we might be able to judge what how "muslim extremists" progressed.
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
us330
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:15 pm



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 11):
And why is the same process going on, even now, 60 years later? With just as many more deaths?

The goal of the Gaza airstrikes was not to take their land--it was to combat a threat to their security.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:21 pm



Quoting Us330 (Reply 19):
The goal of the Gaza airstrikes was not to take their land--it was to combat a threat to their security.

That, and to take revenge on the Palestinian people at the same time.
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us330
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:32 pm



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 11):
What is the underlying reason for people of Jewish descent, from all over the world, way back in the 1930s, determining to take land that had undeniably belonged to the Palestinians for many centuries - by force, with many deaths?

Combination of religion, British promises, and fleeing places where they were not wanted (Europe, during the 1930s). You forget, many Jews fled, or at least try to flee elsewhere, like the U.S., Canada, and other countries, but their applications for visas were flat out rejected. Left with no place else to turn, they went to Palestine. They had to go somewhere.

Yes, some of them came by force, but plenty of others didn't. The Palestinians were just as guilty in the exchange of violence, even to peaceful settlers.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 12):
You don't just get to pick and choose which abuses you'll investigate, or at least you shouldn't, anyway.

Here's where you and I differ--the "you shouldn't anyway" part. In an ideal world, yes everything would be fully investigated, everybody would get justice, and we'd all be happier for it. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world. What will probably happen is that priority will be given for more serious cases, such as civilian deaths, then, once all civilian deaths are investigated (and who knows how long that could take), they will begin to investigate less serious matters (relative to death) like looting and the like. I would assume that graffiti would be so far down on the list of priorities that it would probably eventually be forgotten, as another incident occurs and forces another reprioritization of resources.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:33 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 20):
That, and to take revenge on the Palestinian people at the same time.

I don't think you really want us to believe that you feel that way do you? This action was not a "revenge" attack on the Palestinian people but rather an attempt to dislodge and weaken the terrorist attacks by Hamas.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 11):
What is the underlying reason for people of Jewish descent, from all over the world, way back in the 1930s,

Well, first of all it started way before the 1930's, but that's another issue.

Us330 has summed it up very well.

Quoting Us330 (Reply 10):
Because of the long history of persecution that the Jews have had, including the Holocaust. History does repeat itself, and while I would like to be positive and think that "Never Again" will truly mean "Never Again," I can't be sure. Jews need a homeland as a guard against a possible repeat. It may not be the perfect security blanket, but it is the most effective. There needs to be someplace where we can go.

I firmly believe that no matter how assimilated Jews are in their host countries, they feel a certain amount of uncertainty about how secure they really are. We saw that once in Germany in the last century, didn't we?
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EZEIZA
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:40 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 22):
I don't think you really want us to believe that you feel that way do you? This action was not a "revenge" attack on the Palestinian people but rather an attempt to dislodge and weaken the terrorist attacks by Hamas.

If that was the reason, it will stay as an attempt, because Hamas was not weakened. On the contrary, with the extra hatred that's over there now, Hamas will find it way too easy to recruit.
And I honestly believe Israel knew this, that's why I think there's something else behimd this attack. Maybe just a way of showing power, maybe for the elections, maybe to get their image cleaned up (domestically) after 2006 ... but diminishing terrorist fire power was not the reason.
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RussianJet
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:51 pm



Quoting Us330 (Reply 21):
yes everything would be fully investigated, everybody would get justice, and we'd all be happier for it

And there is nothing wrong with that ideal - we should strive towards achieving it.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 22):
I don't think you really want us to believe that you feel that way do you? This action was not a "revenge" attack on the Palestinian people but rather an attempt to dislodge and weaken the terrorist attacks by Hamas.

Seeing as this 'attempt' had such disastrous and ongoing consequences for the civilian population, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that revenge, or at least 'teaching them a lesson' ('them' being unfortunately the whole population of Gaza, not just those responsible for attacks) plays a role. The raw figures, even if exaggerated by 100% support such a conclusion. There is a long history of you kill ten of ours and we take out a hundred of yours. What would you call it? Defence? I don't think so. Also, as EZEIZA mentioned, an army as well-resourced and experienced as Israel's knew perfectly well this would not be the end of Hamas. I am not saying it was exclusively revenge, but hell, it certainly wasn't proportionate or defensive.
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SOBHI51
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:31 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 15):
Another state dominated by Muslim extremists

Why Muslim extremists it could well be moderate Palestinians.Same as Israel you can have right extremists as bad as Muslim extremists or moderate center.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 15):
we heard the prayers from the mosques 25 times a day

Weird i live in Saudi Arabia and here it only 10 times a day twice for each prayer.

Quoting Us330 (Reply 21):
even to peaceful settlers

How can you be a peaceful settler and you are coming to take my house and land?
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
jutes85
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:32 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 24):
but hell, it certainly wasn't proportionate or defensive.

How about this then, for every rocket hamas sends into Isreal, Israel responds with a 155mm Artillary Shell onto a random target in Gaza.
nothing
 
AGM100
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:37 pm



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 18):
Palestinian to be "animals"

No , the whole idea of my post is that they would live in a democracy where they would be afforded all the rights of any other citizens. Maybe they could get a real job at the many Israeli technical manufactures or go to college and become doctors teachers or scientists... . Something they may never get in a "Palestinian dominated" state...
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OA260
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:37 pm



Quoting Jutes85 (Reply 26):
Israel responds with a 155mm Artillary Shell onto a random target in Gaza.

So are you now saying that Israel is a terrorist state? Are you putting them into the same category as Hamas?
 
RussianJet
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:39 pm



Quoting Jutes85 (Reply 26):
How about this then, for every rocket hamas sends into Isreal, Israel responds with a 155mm Artillary Shell onto a random target in Gaza.

Because Israel wants to behave like terrorists? Or because all Palestinians are terrorists? Only two reasons I can possibly fathom for such a ridiculous argument, and both are appalling.
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dtwclipper
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:48 pm

]

Quoting OA260 (Reply 28):
Quoting Jutes85 (Reply 26):
Israel responds with a 155mm Artillary Shell onto a random target in Gaza.


So are you now saying that Israel is a terrorist state? Are you putting them into the same category as Hamas?

He didn't say that, you did. It was an ironic remark in response to RJ's post. Stop trying to entrap folks, just debate the issue.
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OA260
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:48 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 29):
Because Israel wants to behave like terrorists? Or because all Palestinians are terrorists? Only two reasons I can possibly fathom for such a ridiculous argument, and both are appalling.

Yeah but not surprising.

I was heartened by Obamas news conference a while ago saying that ''He was deeply concerned about the huge death toll of civilians in Gaza and all assistance will be made available to ease the suffering''

Finally some decency from the White House. Its been a long time coming but its finally here.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:56 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 30):
It was an ironic remark in response to RJ's post.

You think so? He has made post after post after post seeking to justify Israeli actions by comparing them to acts of terrorism and by drawing comparisons to the standards of Hamas when justifying civilian deaths. I don't think it was Ironic at all, because he has not once, even 1%, admitted any tiny portion of blame on the Israeli side. Regardless of your loyalties or views, anyone who thinks that either side in this situation is totally blameless is either in total denial or really just trying to provoke everyone.
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OA260
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:01 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 30):
Stop trying to entrap folks, just debate the issue.

See below ::

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 32):
You think so? He has made post after post after post seeking to justify Israeli actions by comparing them to acts of terrorism and by drawing comparisons to the standards of Hamas when justifying civilian deaths.

Exactly . Always tries to justify it. Thats the POINT !
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:02 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 32):
You think so?

Yes, I do. I wasn't talking about previous posts.
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RussianJet
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:05 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 34):
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 32):
You think so?

Yes, I do. I wasn't talking about previous posts.

Well sorry, but there is a context. If you want to ignore it then obviously you are not likely to figure out what he really means.
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dtwclipper
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:05 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 33):
Exactly . Always tries to justify it. Thats the POINT !

No, you just proved my point.

But we're off track again.

I think 11 threads (and multiple bans) have made us all a bit weary and aprehensive!
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OA260
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 pm

Rabbi burns Israeli passport at London demo


http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=fiSP076_nVI&feature=related

Wait for it ! They were Hamas fighters in drag .  Wink
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:07 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 35):
Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 34):
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 32):
You think so?

Yes, I do. I wasn't talking about previous posts.


Well sorry, but there is a context. If you want to ignore it then obviously you are not likely to figure out what he really means.

I know what he means, and I knew what he wanted to say above, so please don't tell me what I am likely or not likely to know when I know it, because I know it when I know it.
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RussianJet
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:10 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 38):
I know what he means, and I knew what he wanted to say above, so please don't tell me what I am likely or not likely to know when I know it, because I know it when I know it.

Well, that's nice. However, I'll just add that particular post to the long list of those he has posted blindly justifying every atrocious action and repeatedly seeking to justify them by saying that terrorists do the same thing, because post after post has truly demonstrated 'what he means'.
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OA260
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:11 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 38):
so please don't tell me what I am likely or not likely to know when I know it, because I know it when I know it.

I think you Know it LOL.....
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:11 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 37):
Rabbi burns Israeli passport at London demo


http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=fiSP076_nVI&feature=related

Wait for it ! They were Hamas fighters in drag

I've seen them before, remember these are the guys that were invited to Iran. A very small group, but visiable group*


*note to self. Don't invite these Rabbis over for cocktails Big grin
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dtwclipper
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:12 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 39):
Well, that's nice. However, I'll just add that particular post to the long list of those he has posted blindly justifying every atrocious action and repeatedly seeking to justify them by saying that terrorists do the same thing, because post after post has truly demonstrated 'what he means'.

Come on RJ, can't you lighten up just a bit?
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OA260
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:15 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 41):
*note to self. Don't invite these Rabbis over for cocktails Big grin



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 42):
Come on RJ, can't you lighten up just a bit?

He just did !!  Smile
 
RussianJet
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:20 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 42):
Come on RJ, can't you lighten up just a bit?

Mate, I have zero quarrel with you in spite of differences of opinion, but seriously, I cannot believe that this particular poster has sought to justify literally 100% of everything Israel does and sought to place literally 100% of the blame for everything on Palestinian shoulders. In that respect he is pretty much unique here, and as a clearly intelligent person you surely must recognise the farcity of such a position. I am well capable of lightening up, but some things just aren't to be 'lightened up' about.  smile 
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OA260
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:26 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 44):
is pretty much unique here

I agree . At least 99% of us here with differing views can at least find some common ground.

Again no one on here supports Hamas and accusing anyone of doing that will not be tolerated.
 
edka
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:38 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 37):
Rabbi burns Israeli passport at London demo

so what?

either you dont know which sect this rabbi belongs to, otherwise you wound not have posted this link or you deliberately posting information that does not have any relevance...

which one is it?
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:43 pm



Quoting EDKA (Reply 46):
so what?

either you dont know which sect this rabbi belongs to, otherwise you wound not have posted this link or you deliberately posting information that does not have any relevance...

which one is it?

They are a part of this group:

http://www.nkusa.org/
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AGM100
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:44 pm



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 25):
Why Muslim extremists it could well be moderate Palestinians.Same as Israel you can have right extremists as bad as Muslim extremists or moderate center.

True I guess .. but I don't hear much from the moderate Muslims especially ones who have to live near Jews.

Have the moderate Muslims agreed to recognize Israel yet. ?

Yesterday I heard a little NPR program taped from Karachi Pakistan.. they were interviewing Pakistani laborers slaving in a rock quarry. They were the poorest of the poor in Pakistan. When asked ,these guys said that the missiles hitting the camps in North Pakistan was the biggest problem they had. Now here we have people who probably live in a ally way somewhere and slave for pennies a day ... and the 10 missiles we launched in the past year is Pakistan's biggest problem ? Now I know I am paralleling Muslims between continents and countries .. but I believe that the Palestinians suffer from the same syndrome.. always blaming someone or something else for there plight.

And your right the prayers went up less that 25 times a day ... my mistake
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OA260
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RE: Israeli Air Strikes In Gaza, Part 11

Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:52 pm



Quoting EDKA (Reply 46):
so what?

either you dont know which sect this rabbi belongs to, otherwise you wound not have posted this link or you deliberately posting information that does not have any relevance...

which one is it?


It does have relevance if you dont like it then Im sorry but its fact . It speaks volumes that alot of Israelis and Jews DO NOT support whats been done in Gaza.

Sunday, December 28, 2008
INDEPENDENT JEWISH VOICES CONDEMNS ISRAEL'S GAZA MASSACRE
The Israeli military has unleashed its most vicious air assault against the people of Gaza in decades, killing over 280 Gazans and wounding over 700. Despite claims by the Israeli leadership that they are trying to avoid civilians the attacks have been concentrated on Gaza City and the towns of Khan Younis and Rafah. Israeli television reports that Israeli troops are massing on the border "in preparation for a supplementary ground offensive"

http://ijvcanada.blogspot.com/2008/1...endent-jewish-voices-condemns.html

----------------------------

Thousands march in Jaffa against Gaza massacre

Jews and Arabs united against Israeli regime
Tnu'at Maavak Sotzyalisti/Harakat Nidal Eshteraki – CWI in Israel

Shortly before the Israeli government decided to finish its onslaught on the Gaza Strip for the time being, thousands of Jews and Arabs marched, last Saturday, 17 January, in Jaffa, against the massacre, the siege, the occupation and against racism.

http://ld.net/eng/2009/01/2105.html

-------------------------------

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