Arrow
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Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:52 pm

For years I've been arguing that George Bush was the best thing to happen to Al Qaeda in decades -- his policies made him a perfect poster boy for the recruitment of new talent from the ranks of young potentially radical Muslims.

Al Qaeda's response to Obama seems to bear that out. Maybe that exponential growth in terrorism afficionados in the Middle East in recent years can be reversed after all.

Check this story out:

To Combat Obama, Al-Qaeda Hurls Insults

The torrent of hateful words is part of what terrorism experts now believe is a deliberate, even desperate, propaganda campaign against a president who appears to have gotten under al-Qaeda's skin. The departure of George W. Bush deprived al-Qaeda of a polarizing American leader who reliably drove recruits and donations to the terrorist group.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2009/01/24/AR2009012401703.html
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
baroque
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:03 pm



Quoting Arrow (Thread starter):
For years I've been arguing that George Bush was the best thing to happen to Al Qaeda in decades -- his policies made him a perfect poster boy for the recruitment of new talent from the ranks of young potentially radical Muslims.

Snap.

That is a great description of the net effects of Bush. Had Bush not existed, OBL would have had to try to invent him. And the cost to the US, 2 to 3 trillion dollars and counting. Not that the rest of us have not also been paying for Bushian policy failures.

Obama is going to provide problems for OBL. I would love to see Howard pinned by a reporter asking him how come - when Howard was trying to give Labor in Aus a spray he opined that OBL would be happy to have Obama as POTUS.

However, Obama needs to be able to leave behind the most of the shibboleths of the Bush era to be a real pain in the bum for OBL. Will the R wing in the US give him that much freedom.

The problem might well be that the militarists in the US are a more formidable enemy than OBL ever was or will be.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:52 pm

"AlQaeda" and other such terror networks will have to deal with someone totally different from GW Bush.

U.S. President Obama went to a madrasa when he was a young boy living in Indonesia. He knows Islam very well as he grew up in it for a part of his childhood. He probably still speaks Arabic fluently or at least fairly well.

It will be a different game. How it will be played on both sides is something we have to watch with the coming deployment of thousands of US troops from Iraq to Afghanistan and the missile strikes into Pakistan.

More military spending ahead?  
Meet the new boss... same as the old boss?

[Edited 2009-01-26 08:53:26]
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
baroque
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:30 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 2):
U.S. President Obama went to a madrasa when he was a young boy living in Indonesia. He knows Islam very well as he grew up in it for a part of his childhood. He probably still speaks Arabic fluently or at least fairly well.

Assuming the comments about Obama and Islam are serious:

MC please. In Arabic terms he went to a madrasa because that is Arabic for school.

What he actually went to in INDONESIAN terms, was a school where the language of instruction was Bahasa Indonesia. The school is Basuki SD as far as I can establish.

I think, they would have had to repeat the five principles of Pancasila each day. There were Muslims at the school together, it seems, with Catholics and Buddhists and probably some Confucians. Islamic law and the Koran would be taught, but it is not a religious school. The Koran teachings might have been in Arabic but at that age could have been in Bahasa Indonesia.

If he can still speak Bahasa Indonesia (which is not clear) that might be the case if he corresponds with his half sibling Maya.

Just to be clear, almost everything on this website is a load of rubbish.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
And that, MC, is where your suggestions originate AFAIK.

His step father, the one listed on that site as a Radical Muslim fits better this Wiki entry:

Soetoro was the ninth out of ten children of Martodihardjo who hailed from Yogyakarta.[4] During the Indonesian National Revolution (c. 1946) when Indonesia won independence from the Dutch, Soetoro's father and eldest brother were killed, after which the Dutch army burned down the family's home. Soetoro fled with his mother into the countryside to survive.[6]

He obtained his bachelor's degree in Geography from Gajah Mada University, Yogyakarta.[4] He later obtained a scholarship from his workplace to study for a master's degree at the University of Hawaii, where he met Barack Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, also a student.[7] Around 1966 Soetoro and Dunham married and Soetoro returned to Indonesia when it called home its citizens who were studying abroad. About a year later, [6] Dunham and six-year-old Barack followed Soetoro back to Indonesia, where the family took up residence in Menteng Dalam, Jakarta.[8][9] In 1970 Soetoro and Dunham had a daughter, Maya.[10]

After returning to Indonesia, Soetoro first worked for the army as a geologist and then took a job as a government relations consultant with Mobil Oil.[9][11][12] Obama describes Soetoro as well-mannered, even-tempered, and easy with people and writes about the struggles he perceived Soetoro had to deal with after he returned to Indonesia from Hawaii. [13]


He died of liver disease if you are curious about that too. Being dehoused by the Dutch was fairly standard in the areas where the fighting was intense.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:41 pm

How do you dare?
What you are saying there is NOT true!
I had absolutely no idea that this site even exited!!

 Wow!

Quoting Baroque (Reply 3):
Just to be clear, almost everything on this website is a load of rubbish.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
And that, MC, is where your suggestions originate AFAIK.

There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
Starbuk7
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:50 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 1):
And the cost to the US, 2 to 3 trillion dollars and counting

So, where did you get your cost estimate. Try this one, only in the billions so far.
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home

AQ still hates the west no matter what, doesn't matter who is running the country. You are just looking for something else to bash Bush about, even after he has left office.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:00 pm

Obama to CIA: Bombs Away! No Let Up in US Drone Attacks
New President Approves Continued Attacks That Have Killed 8 of al Qaeda's Top 20

The CIA's bombing campaign against al Qaeda leadership in Pakistan continued with two more attacks today, an indication, senior officials say, that President Barack Obama has approved the U.S. strategy that has killed at least eight of al Qaeda's top 20 leaders since July 2008.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6718124&page=1
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
JFKMan
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:03 pm

Al Qaeda LOVES Obama!!!!! He is letting all their old recruits out.
AA - LGA
 
Dougloid
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:03 pm

Not really surprising.

Obama's the president of the united states and the only thing he's got in common with the world that AQ and the rest of that detestable crew inhabits is his middle name-which of course he had nothing to do with getting.

One of the dirty little secrets of the region is the presence of black slaves bought and paid for, and that's the culture OBL was raised up in.

No doubt OBL still thinks he's in a position to order negroes around. He shoulda checked with Jeff Davis about that

http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/SaudiArabia.htm
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Klaus
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:05 pm



Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 5):
AQ still hates the west no matter what, doesn't matter who is running the country.

Relevant is how many members with how much support Al Qaida has.

The level of hatred and hunger for power in the leading circles of Al Qaida can be assumed as more or less constant. The amount of support and new recruits they can get is the variable here.

And that is their real achilles heel which a Barack Hussein Obama can attack much better with intelligent and differentiated statements and policies than a George Walker Bush with his sledgehammer approach.
 
AGM100
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:08 pm



Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 5):
still hates the west no matter what, doesn't matter who is running the country. You are just looking for something else to bash Bush about, even after he has left office.

Not necessarily that simple ,The thought process is that if we just ignore them, the problem will go away. It is not just a " idea ".. it was the policy of the previous administration for years.

There is also merit to the idea... it assumes that you are just willing to take some losses and move on. We blow your stuff up , and you just take it... so eventually it is not even worth blowing your stuff up anymore. Basically you bore the terrorists out of existence by ignoring them .
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:10 pm

The two attacks today in Pakistan were the first since President Obama took office on Tuesday.

Asked about it at his daily press briefing, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said, "I'm not going to discuss that matter."

 Yeah sure
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
Klaus
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:52 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 10):
The thought process is that if we just ignore them, the problem will go away

Yours? Not Obama's, that much is clear.
 
AGM100
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:07 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
Yours? Not Obama's, that much is clear

I agree ,I was referring to another poster on here who suggest that AQ likes Bush because of the war on terror. So far I have not heard President Obama suggest that he was going to do anything other than attack AQ , and bolster our forces in Afghanistan. I agree with him.
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mariner
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:19 pm



Quoting JFKMan (Reply 7):
Al Qaeda LOVES Obama!!!!! He is letting all their old recruits out.

Darn clever. He hasn't released anyone yet.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 2):
He probably still speaks Arabic fluently or at least fairly well.

I wouldn't make that assumption at all. The President went to a school in Indonesia.

He certainly knows some Bahasa Indonesian - he's spoken a few words publicly - but there are questions as to whether he is fluent.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
baroque
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:54 pm



Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 5):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 1):
And the cost to the US, 2 to 3 trillion dollars and counting

So, where did you get your cost estimate. Try this one, only in the billions so far.
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home

That is a current cost, see one of the later references. That is what you HAVE paid, the numbers I gave are what you WILL pay.
So you might like to try these as you look to be young enough to pay the full cumulative cost, not just the costs to date:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0310/p16s01-wmgn.html
Last September in a phone interview, Ms. Bilmes estimated the war's total price tag as easily exceeding $2 trillion. In a book published last month, she and Joseph Stiglitz, a Nobel Prize-winning economist from Columbia University, New York, estimated the total long-run cost at $3 trillion in 2007 valued dollars. If you add in Afghanistan and various costs to the economy, the sum reaches $4.95 trillion.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/washington/19cost.html
WASHINGTON --- At the outset of the Iraq war, the Bush administration predicted that it would cost $50 billion to $60 billion to oust Saddam Hussein, restore order and install a new government.
....
The Congressional Budget Office and other analysts say that $1 trillion to $2 trillion is more realistic, depending on troop levels and on how long the American occupation continues.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf
Gets to USD894 billion for end 2009 costs, but you WILL have to pay the ongoing costs, for according to Stiglitz about 40 years.
That document estimates with fast draw down costs per year from 2012 to 2018 at 33 to 35 billion a year. Costs beyond 2018 are not stated. That does not mean there will not be costs.

It is true that the Stiglitz estimates dominate, but that does not mean they are wrong does it? If you want to prove him wrong you need to attack his calculations.

Puts the rescue packages into a different context perhaps????
 
Klaus
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:48 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 13):
So far I have not heard President Obama suggest that he was going to do anything other than attack AQ , and bolster our forces in Afghanistan. I agree with him.

That is actually not all he's said, and that is why I see any hope at all: He is actuely aware that police or sometimes military pressure is necessary, but also that it is not remotely sufficient on its own, that it also takes a political solution to be really effective.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:08 am

First the Missile strikes.
Then Ground troops.
regds
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seb146
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:42 am



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
The CIA's bombing campaign against al Qaeda leadership in Pakistan continued with two more attacks today, an indication, senior officials say, that President Barack Obama has approved the U.S. strategy that has killed at least eight of al Qaeda's top 20 leaders since July 2008.

This could be another reason why al-Qaida hates Obama. Bush took focus off Osama bin Laden, Wizirestan, and al-Qaida to invade and occupy Iraq. Now, Obama is deciding to go back and do what should have been done a long long time ago.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
lxa333
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:39 am

This is obnoxious, we were attacked as a country on 911, they didn't directly attack George Bush, if they hated him they would attack him. They hate us as a people. America is America from beirut bombings to wtc 93 to wtc 2001 to 2090 or whenever. Doesn't matter whos president, one president can't change american politics in a whole. The wealthy american man behind the curtain will always have a say in american politics which is true but not right. I want Al-Qaeda to hate the US openly, because then we can actual have security put in place and not get attacked when not warned.

Sometimes I think closing g-bay down will be better since then possibly we could stop the influence somewhat of more recruits by letting out a mere 280 instead of influencing another 10, 000 but sometimes I just think why not press the "wrong button" and get rid of all the actual real terrorists since the US constitution doesn't apply to them. I just hope Obama can solve these problems along with these advisors of his.
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mariner
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:46 am

I would guess that after the amazing Obama interview on al-Arabiya/CNN today, Al Qaeda will have even more reason to hate President Obama.

mariner
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QANTAS077
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:53 am



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
Obama to CIA: Bombs Away! No Let Up in US Drone Attacks

do you always post stuff that isn't backed by fact?

Quoting LXA333 (Reply 19):
This is obnoxious, we were attacked as a country on 911, they didn't directly attack George Bush, if they hated him they would attack him. They hate us as a people.

bullshit...they hate that your government continually shits out speeches about democracy and human rights whilst blatantly propping up dictatorships.

They saw Bush coming and used it for all its worth, Obama is a far smarter politician to fall for the same trick.
 
lxa333
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:07 am



Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 21):
bullshit...they hate that your government continually shits out speeches about democracy and human rights whilst blatantly propping up dictatorships.

Alright, so what do you think of Clinton? We were attacked when he was president. According to most americans and foreigners he wasn't as bad as Bush, he wanted to avoid terrorism conflict. Why attack us with Clinton as President if they like him or democrats so much. So, they hate our government and they go after innocent citizens thats a good exchange from an organization that hates our government only supposedly.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:14 am



Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 21):
bullshit...they hate that your government continually shits out speeches about democracy and human rights whilst blatantly propping up dictatorships.

While your comment about the US preaching democracy while supporting dictatorships is quite true, I'd argue that militant Islamists miss democratic freedoms. After all, they think that democracy is a satanic western invention to distract from the true commands given by God.

Jan
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Dougloid
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:25 am



Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 21):
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
Obama to CIA: Bombs Away! No Let Up in US Drone Attacks

do you always post stuff that isn't backed by fact?

That was something of a smoking turd, wasn't it?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
bahadir
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:35 pm

Has anyone seen a terrorist organization love anything except killing people and guns? I am surprised that you find Al Queda hate Obama..
Earthbound misfit I
 
dxing
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:04 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 9):
And that is their real achilles heel which a Barack Hussein Obama can attack much better with intelligent and differentiated statements and policies than a George Walker Bush with his sledgehammer approach.

I guess continuing the Bush policy of firing missiles across an internationally recognized border without permission is something different than the sledgehammer approach?

http://wcbstv.com/politics/pakistan.missile.strike.2.915889.html

"The first attack Friday took place in the village of Zharki in North Waziristan, when a single drone fired three missiles in the space of 10 minutes, the security officials said.
The missiles destroyed two buildings, killing 10 people, at least five of whom were foreign militants, the officials said on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media.
Hours later, a second missile struck a house"


So 5 AQ and at least 5 civilians. He's off to a good start.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 18):
Now, Obama is deciding to go back and do what should have been done a long long time ago.

I'll be interested to see how, aside from firing missiles across the border, he is able to have success given the enemy has a ready place to retreat too that U.S. forces can't reach.
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Aaron747
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:25 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 26):

I guess continuing the Bush policy of firing missiles across an internationally recognized border without permission is something different than the sledgehammer approach?

No dispute there - but there's two halves to the battle, and the Bush White House didn't fight the PR half. Obama's off to a good start there as well:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ms/non_aviation/read.main/2037152/
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AGM100
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:24 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 16):
that it also takes a political solution to be really effective.

Correct , thus the effort to establish open elections in the countries affected by military action. A "political solution" is most times slang cover for ... lets not do anything and it will work out. In some cases doing nothing may be a solution , like Darfur ..if you wait long enough the war will end because one side is gone.

Although I definitely agree that political and military actions compliment each other .. I would say that neither of them work by themselves.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Klaus
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:50 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 26):
I guess continuing the Bush policy of firing missiles across an internationally recognized border without permission is something different than the sledgehammer approach?

It could be, if that was all that was being done. As has been said many times, militants need to be persecuted by force where appropriate, but even more important is to remove incentives for ordinary people to become militant.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 28):
Correct , thus the effort to establish open elections in the countries affected by military action.

Token elections (as in Iraq) are pointless if the buildup of a civil society is utterly neglected which is actually the essential ingredient.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 28):
A "political solution" is most times slang cover for ... lets not do anything and it will work out.

No. It only looks that way when you ignore everything that's actually being said.
 
baroque
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RE: Al Qaeda Hates Obama

Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:49 pm

Obama has a number of supporters but Boris Johnson is a bit of a surprise.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/o...time/2009/01/27/1232818433845.html

Way to go, Mr President. I think we can all agree that it has been a cracking first week. Apart from the swearing-in glitch - which was entirely the fault of that judge - I have supported just about everything that Barack Obama has done.

The rest of the article is about a hacker the US wants extradited (and giant green lizards!!):
To listen to the ravings of the US military you would think McKinnon is a threat to national security on a par with Osama bin Laden. According to the Americans, this mild-mannered computer programmer has done more damage to their war-fighting capabilities than all the orange-pyjama-clad suspects of Guantanamo combined.

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