Starbuk7
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Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:43 pm

Now they want to tell us how to live our lives and if we can have children, sounds like China.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=398956

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi stirred up a hornet's nest by promoting the idea of spending of millions of dollars on birth control and abortion as part of the economic stimulus package.
 
AGM100
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:49 pm

Man can you imagine if a white republican would have suggested this .. ouch. I am not surprised about this at all.. She is a left wing socialists ... social engineering is a mandate for them.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
mt99
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:55 pm



Quoting Starbuk7 (Thread starter):
Now they want to tell us how to live our lives and if we can have children, sounds like China

I certainly am not in a postion to defend abortion as a family planning method. but the fact of the matter is that there is a balance somewhere in terms on how many persons a particular are can sustain.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 1):
Man can you imagine if a white republican would have suggested this ..

He would never. What is your point?
Step into my office, baby
 
Starbuk7
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:01 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 2):
I certainly am not in a position to defend abortion as a family planning method. but the fact of the matter is that there is a balance somewhere in terms on how many persons a particular are can sustain.

IMHO if you can afford the amount of children you have without handouts from the government you should be allowed to have as many as you want, again, as long as you can afford all the costs of raising them WITHOUT help from anyone else or the government.
 
Flighty
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:03 pm

It's funny because of how wrong she is. Rich well educated women need to have more kids.

The USA does not have any population problems. If anything, we need more population to support our real estate market over time. The baby boomer generation is going to die off. Many kids will be needed to work in the USA when they are gone.

So she's just wrong, period. There are some groups who have too many kids. Kids they can't afford to care for. Kids who end up in our 2+ million prison population. But from nice families, we need all the kids we can get. Other countries are in full blown crisis b/c they don't have enough babies. Japan, Russia, Italy. They are desperate for more kids.

It's also worth pointing out that we have 10+ million illegal visitors in the USA. Of course, if we have too many people here (say the schools are full), they would be the first to go.

China is never shy about kicking out illegal visitors. Mexico kicks out illegal visitors also, IIRC.
 
fr8mech
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:05 pm

I wonder where she, and her ilk, expect to get future workers to pay into the massive entitlement kitty that Obama and gang are putting together? Not that the kitty is small now, by any stretch of the imagination.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
mt99
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:06 pm



Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 3):
without handouts from the government you should be allowed to have as many as you want,

WHoa.. easy there tiger.. How would you determine if Sue and Bob should have 3 or 4 children? How would can you quantify the quality of life 3 children would have compared with 4?

Are you suggesting only rich people should have children? Who is sounding like China now?
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Starbuk7
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:13 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 5):
WHoa.. easy there tiger.. How would you determine if Sue and Bob should have 3 or 4 children? How would can you quantify the quality of life 3 children would have compared with 4?

Sue and Bob need to sit down with their budget and decide if they can have 3 or 4 children. If they financially can't then they should think about waiting and using birth control (not abortion) until their finical status improve.

Now if something should happen like losing a job or getting a disability that is a different case.

Besides, in China you can only have one no matter what.
 
mt99
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:13 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 4):
. There are some groups who have too many kids. Kids they can't afford to care for. Kids who end up in our 2+ million prison population.

That is what she is referring too. Sounds like you agree with her.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 4):
But from nice families, we need all the kids we can get.

Absolutely. Go ahead and define a "nice family" for me please? Once you have settled on this defination, how about a law allowing children to only families that fit your description
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mt99
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:17 pm



Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 8):
If they financially can't then they should think about waiting and using birth control (not abortion) until their finical status improve.

So let me get this straight. You are agreeing with Nancy here..

Quote from your link

"It's quite shocking, actually, that the Speaker of the House -- who claims to be Catholic -- would go on national television and claim that contraception would reduce the cost to the government, " exclaims Fani. "It's just beyond words, really.

You are agreeing with her.
Step into my office, baby
 
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Tugger
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:21 pm

Gee, talk about a flame-bait article! So much for the hope of differing sides being willing to seek what they have in common and work together.

And of course on its face, the title of the article is wrong:

Quoting Starbuk7 (Thread starter):
Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

First Pelosi did not say that, this is what she is doing:

Quoting Starbuk7 (Thread starter):
promoting the idea of spending of millions of dollars on birth control and abortion as part of the economic stimulus package.

, second it has been proven many times over that a stagnant and even shrinking population base are, in general, not good for national economies.

Quoting Starbuk7 (Thread starter):
Now they want to tell us how to live our lives and if we can have children, sounds like China.

Wrong! Flat out, 100% wrong. This is nothing like China, giving more people the OPTION of using family planning services is a good idea. This is not FORCING people to use the services or to not have kids. That she, as a Catholic, is able to put forth ideas that can be good for the nation and not bring her religious view point into it is exactly what the people of this nation and Congress need. Less religion in politics, more freedom for people to live their lives as they deem proper.

Of course there is no stopping weak media types from exploiting stuff and throwing sensationalized headlines for others to use to the detriment of the discussion. All "sides" do it, it happened in the last administration and will in the future.

Tugg
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PPVRA
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:31 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 2):
but the fact of the matter is that there is a balance somewhere in terms on how many persons a particular are can sustain.

Populations don't seem to naturally grow to unsustainable levels. Famines tend to be extraneous events that catches us (and all other animals) off guard. Even less so in humans, since the wealthier we become the lower the birth rate seems to get. We want to expand our well-being and rationally choose to have fewer children when we don't need them. The equation seems to work the other way around for low-income farmers in the third world, since they need the manpower to help out.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 4):
It's funny because of how wrong she is.

More evidently, to support retiring baby boomers with all the welfare promised, we need more kids. She seems to forget that Social Security is basically a Pyramid/Ponzi Scheme depending on people paying into it to support its activities. A shrinking base will eventually implode the system.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
mt99
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:35 pm



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 11):
Populations don't seem to naturally grow to unsustainable levels. Famines tend to be extraneous events that catches us (and all other animals) off guard.

Yea. I am sure all those tons of happy children in Somalia are testament to that.
Step into my office, baby
 
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Tugger
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:42 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 12):
Quoting PPVRA (Reply 11):
Populations don't seem to naturally grow to unsustainable levels. Famines tend to be extraneous events that catches us (and all other animals) off guard.

Yea. I am sure all those tons of happy children in Somalia are testament to that.

Unfortunately, much of that is due to the international aid that flows in and supports a level that the nation of Somalia (if you can actually still call it that) can not "naturally" or on it owns support.

But then what do you do, watch people by the thousands starve? Same thing could be said for Welfare, WIC, and Food Stamps in the USA.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
mt99
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:48 pm



Quoting Tugger (Reply 13):
But then what do you do, watch people by the thousands starve? Same thing could be said for Welfare, WIC, and Food Stamps in the USA.

Sound like a great solution. I am sure Starbuk would much rather cut off any government assistance to under privileged kids. I am sure that after a few cycles parents will understand that they should only have the number of kids that they can afford. Teach them the hard way i say! No free handouts!
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JBo
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:49 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 7):
Absolutely. Go ahead and define a "nice family" for me please? Once you have settled on this defination, how about a law allowing children to only families that fit your description

I'll throw a definition out: a "nice family" being one that is responsible for their own welfare by living within their own means throughout all areas of life, and if they cannot maintain a healthy living within their means, they take the responsibility to do so without relying on government aid.

I think they key word here is "responsible" ... and regardless however you want to spin Pelosi's words, the promotion of birth control is, in turn, a promotion of responsiblity.

I would like any of you to give me a good reason why the government encouraging its citizens to be responsible with their life decisions is a bad thing.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
dragon6172
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:02 pm



Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 3):
IMHO if you can afford the amount of children you have without handouts from the government you should be allowed to have as many as you want, again, as long as you can afford all the costs of raising them WITHOUT help from anyone else or the government

Where do you draw the line for what is considered help from the government? For example, if everyone had more kids, that would require more schools. Communities can get grants and other forms of government money to build these schools. Is that considered getting help from the government to raise your kids?
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Charles79
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:17 pm



Quoting Starbuk7 (Thread starter):
Now they want to tell us how to live our lives and if we can have children, sounds like China.



Quoting Tugger (Reply 10):
Wrong! Flat out, 100% wrong. This is nothing like China, giving more people the OPTION of using family planning services is a good idea. This is not FORCING people to use the services or to not have kids. That she, as a Catholic, is able to put forth ideas that can be good for the nation and not bring her religious view point into it is exactly what the people of this nation and Congress need. Less religion in politics, more freedom for people to live their lives as they deem proper.

Well said Tugger!

To add to this don't forget which party IS the one who likes to tell you how to run your life, like who you can marry and who you can sleep with.

Quoting JBo (Reply 15):
I would like any of you to give me a good reason why the government encouraging its citizens to be responsible with their life decisions is a bad thing.

I doubt you'll get a meaningful response to that question, but it'll be fun to watch them try.
 
cairo
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:33 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 1):
She is a left wing socialists

I'm not sure advocating increased birth control availability is part of socialism, or, get ready for it...even communism.

Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 3):
as long as you can afford all the costs of raising them WITHOUT help from anyone else or the government

Agree. Government imposed licenses to fly, to drive, to catch fish; tests to get into college, to drive, to get jobs....yet no effort is made to encourage education and responsible creation of young humans?

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 5):
Are you suggesting only rich people should have children?

No, but those in poverty should definitely not have children. What's wrong with the government helping them not have children?

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 6):
I wonder where she, and her ilk, expect to get future workers to pay into the massive entitlement kitty

hello? It sounds to me she's trying to reduce the numbers of those who need the "massive entitlement kitty" by encouraging only those who can afford to reproduce.

Cairo
 
slider
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:29 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 2):
but the fact of the matter is that there is a balance somewhere in terms on how many persons a particular are can sustain.



Quoting Flighty (Reply 4):
Rich well educated women need to have more kids.

The USA does not have any population problems. If anything, we need more population to support our real estate market over time. The baby boomer generation is going to die off. Many kids will be needed to work in the USA when they are gone.

Right now, most of the Western world's population growth rate is at levels that are unsustainable for continuation. Japan just enacted the "go home and procreate" time off because they realize Japan is on a demographic path to disaster.

The math is quote simple really. Yet it gets ignored.

Again, it's not the government's job to even suggest this. Stay the hell out of MY life!! Just like typical creeping incrementalism and social engineering, it's going to start simple and innocent like this, and then it'll grow into much more.

Pelosi simply is an idiot. She is a total moron.

If anything, we need MORE kids to eventually grow our economy, contribute to society, have families of their own, etc.
 
mt99
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:29 pm



Quoting Charles79 (Reply 17):
I doubt you'll get a meaningful response to that question, but it'll be fun to watch them try.

I guess A.net servers cant keep up with all of their intelligent responses...
Step into my office, baby
 
N867DA
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:34 pm

Some parts of the world could do with fewer people.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 18):

No, but those in poverty should definitely not have children.

 checkmark  It shouldn't be anyone's duty to determine who can procreate and who cannot, but there is an unmistakable truth to this statement.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
mt99
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:53 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 20):
Stay the hell out of MY life!!

There is a cabin in Montana for you...

Quoting Slider (Reply 20):
Right now, most of the Western world's population growth rate is at levels that are unsustainable for continuation. Japan just enacted the "go home and procreate" time off because they realize Japan is on a demographic path to disaster.

So have everyone get pregnant everytime they have have sex? Simple. But then dont come crying that the state is paying for schooling and health care for them.

The Japanese Government will pay for those new children. Which is fine by me, but i thought you did not like governmental intervention. Isnt the Japanese Government telling these people what to do? How do you say "stay the Hell out of my MY life" in Japanese?


Quoting Slider (Reply 20):
If anything, we need MORE kids to eventually grow our economy, contribute to society, have families of their own, etc.

Is that why Somalia is doing so well?

[Edited 2009-01-27 15:01:18]
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AGM100
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:36 pm



Quoting Cairo (Reply 18):
I'm not sure advocating increased birth control availability is part of socialism, or, get ready for it...even communism.

Its not birth control .. its abortion. they are not spending billions handing out coloring books and condoms. They are paying for medical procedures. And ,Pelosi needs to pay back political donors like Planned PH , and other activist groups who pour lots of money into campaigns to protect abortion rights . Its all about the cash ,

For her to lump this in as a economic issue is what is scary , since the majority of unwanted pregnancies are among poor minorities. Is she is targeting demographics ???
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
cairo
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:51 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 23):
For her to lump this in as a economic issue is what is scary , since the majority of unwanted pregnancies are among poor minorities. Is she is targeting demographics ???

I would never deny that like most everything that comes out of Washington, this is motivated by lobbyists and special interests, but again, your theory doesn't really make sense to me.

If she is targeting poor minorities - she's helping the Republicans, who would easily win every election if there were a lot fewer urban minorities. In fact, one of the reasons the future looks a bit rosier for the Democrats is because minorities are growing rapidly in number...why would she want to stop this?

Also, distasteful as it may be in methodology, it seems she is making a valid economic argument in that reducing the numbers of poor people through birth control reduces welfare roles and helps the economy.

I presume it is mainly abortion you are against?

Cairo
 
AGM100
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:59 pm



Quoting Cairo (Reply 24):
I presume it is mainly abortion you are against?

I personally don't like it , but I am not a women so it is not my issue. I just don't want my tax dollars paying for abortions ..

Quoting Cairo (Reply 24):
If she is targeting poor minorities - she's helping the Republicans

That's awful ,
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:06 am



Quoting Slider (Reply 20):
Japan just enacted the "go home and procreate" time off because they realize Japan is on a demographic path to disaster.

True enough - they realized it 10 years too late and the government is too xenophobic to even consider allowing more immigration.

Quoting Slider (Reply 20):
Again, it's not the government's job to even suggest this. Stay the hell out of MY life!! Just like typical creeping incrementalism and social engineering, it's going to start simple and innocent like this, and then it'll grow into much more.

I wish BOTH parties would cut it out. This is no worse than abstinence-only sex education or banning gay adoptions. Message to ANY politician: stop telling ANYONE else how to live!

Pelosi's one to talk anyway - she hired a nanny to raise her kids  Yeah sure
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Flighty
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:17 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 26):
True enough - they realized it 10 years too late and the government is too xenophobic to even consider allowing more immigration.

True.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 7):
Absolutely. Go ahead and define a "nice family" for me please? Once you have settled on this defination, how about a law allowing children to only families that fit your description

Of course, it is not easy. The fact remains that the USA is a mix of demographics. Some people in the USA have too many kids. Kids who cost society money and harm the economy. Reducing those kids will improve our economy like Nancy said. An unwanted child in a 1 parent poverty household is not extremely good for our economy most of the time. But of course it is legal, nobody is doubting that.

It's also true that families who are stable with a good income are a like a factory for making young little workers who will do stuff for us in the future. Nancy forgot we need those kids to power our economy in the future, to keep the other kids in jail (essentially).  Smile
 
WunalaYann
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:24 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 4):
If anything, we need more population to support our real estate market over time.

What about a real estate market that actually meets the needs of the population, and not the other way around?  Smile
 
Flighty
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:54 am



Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 28):
What about a real estate market that actually meets the needs of the population, and not the other way around?

Maybe we could bomb another country to fix our real estate market.  scratchchin 
 
Alien
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:59 am

Talk about hypocrisy. This is the same Nancy Pelosi with five children and seven grandchildren. I just love people who say the answer to the world's problems is population control. Maybe these people should lead by example and commit suicide.
 
Rara
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:59 am



Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 8):

Besides, in China you can only have one no matter what.

Incorrect. But I'm to lazy to type, look it up on Wikipedia or something..
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:12 am



Quoting Alien (Reply 31):
Talk about hypocrisy. This is the same Nancy Pelosi with five children and seven grandchildren.

But the Pelosi family has the material resources to support the raising of five children, and more importantly they were willing to raise five children. This plan would make sure people who feel that they are not willing or able to have kids have the resources to make that choice.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 25):
I just don't want my tax dollars paying for abortions ..

I see the moral quandary of having your money spent on something you find objectionable, but I also think that, if we as a society decide that women have the right to an abortion, we also have to make sure that that right is equally available to all women, not dependent on the woman's wealth.
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PPVRA
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:18 am



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 12):
Quoting PPVRA (Reply 11):
Populations don't seem to naturally grow to unsustainable levels. Famines tend to be extraneous events that catches us (and all other animals) off guard.

Yea. I am sure all those tons of happy children in Somalia are testament to that.

African poverty exists because of their corrupt and highly controlling governments. Somalia is a country run by warlords, overrun by terrorists and militia, and war-torn for decades. All of this isn't "natural" but man-made catastrophes.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
cairo
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:30 am



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 25):
I just don't want my tax dollars paying for abortions ..



Someday we may have the right "given" to us by our elected officials to vote directly on how our tax dollars are spent, which programs we want to fund or not fund and so forth...I have a feeling a lot of funding would end up mostly the same...but this way of running a government is probably a topic for a new thread.

Cairo
 
PPVRA
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:38 am



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 32):

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 25):
I just don't want my tax dollars paying for abortions ..

I see the moral quandary of having your money spent on something you find objectionable, but I also think that, if we as a society decide that women have the right to an abortion, we also have to make sure that that right is equally available to all women, not dependent on the woman's wealth.

You don't have a right to breach someone else's rights. A woman may have the right to choose to abort a child, but that's the extent of it. You can argue for all kinds of welfare because you think government does it best or whatever if you want, but its incorrect to call it a right. Welfare-benefits or privileges are better terms.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
mt99
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:04 am



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 33):
African poverty exists because of their corrupt and highly controlling governments. Somalia is a country run by warlords, overrun by terrorists and militia, and war-torn for decades. All of this isn't "natural" but man-made catastrophes.

Exactly. But what has given power to these militias? essentially the control of scare resources. Its a vicious circle. See it not just people facing "famine" in the classical sense, but the turmoil that the control of these resources bring, which become exacerbated by the large population.

Most poor countries have too many people. There has to be a balance.
Step into my office, baby
 
mham001
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:22 am

It always interests me how the same people who have been telling us since the 70's to have fewer children are the same ones telling us we need more illegal immigrants.
 
Doona
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:45 am



Quoting Slider (Reply 20):
Japan just enacted the "go home and procreate" time off because they realize Japan is on a demographic path to disaster.

Didn't the French start showing porn on state TV in order to boost nativity? IIRC, it worked... And it certainly made the lives of every teenager with a TV in their room much more enjoyable.

Cheers
Mats
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Beaucaire
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:01 am

Poverty in many thirdworld countries (but not only ..) can be scientifically tied to excessive number of children to feed.While tribal populations do depend to a certain extent on family-based security environment,city-based families suffer exceedingly more for over-population than farm-oriented country side families.
Furthermore it does tie the female population exclusively into family-support functions,neglecting their access to schools.Its a vicious circle -many girls have their first child at age below 17 and then many (specially in lesser-educated environments ) remain pregnant for many years basically uninterrupted until age 35..
Pelosi is absolutely right to bring up the issue-churches still are preaching "..go out and multiply.."- it's time they learn !
Bu then again it boils down to the religions being a matter of male chauvinistic pigs..
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
Starbuk7
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:13 pm

OK, so it seems that several of you here are telling me that we are to stupid (yourselves included) to know how to raise a family, how many children we should have, how much money we can earn and spend (yes, they want to tax us and small businesses so much that we will never get ahead) that the government needs to handle it all.

The basic premise of this is that people need to get back to being responsible for their own lives, not the government.

People need to get back to being morally, fiscally, ethically, etc, etc responsible for their actions and decisions and not depending on the government for their well being. (if you buy a house that you can't afford, you lose it, it's not the governments fault you made that decision nor their responsibility to bail you out)

And again, if you are on welfare (which I don't agree with that system either since it is so corrupt) and you keep pumping out kids to get more money from the government that is wrong and improper decision making as well.

We all need to put better personal value systems in place and get the government out of our personal lives!!!
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:21 pm



Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 40):
OK, so it seems that several of you here are telling me that we are to stupid (yourselves included) to know how to raise a family, how many children we should have, how much money we can earn and spend (yes, they want to tax us and small businesses so much that we will never get ahead) that the government needs to handle it all.

To put down a blunt answer -yes ! Many families are to damm stupid to anticipate the strain on available resources tied to a huge number of kids.Birth control is NOT in the mind of many third-world country machos ,who do have no real interest to have an educated,emancipated wife, but barely know how to write their names.Spend some time in lesser developped countries and experience the misery of those women who ain't have nothing to say ...They are declared breeding machines and house-keeper.The responsibility is mainly with men ...
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
iairallie
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:31 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 5):
Are you suggesting only rich people should have children?

He's not suggesting anything of the sort. He is suggesting that people should take personal accountablitiy and not have more children than they are capable of supporting.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 26):
uoting Slider (Reply 20):
Japan just enacted the "go home and procreate" time off because they realize Japan is on a demographic path to disaster.

True enough - they realized it 10 years too late and the government is too xenophobic to even consider allowing more immigration.

Interesting article in the Jan 3rd Economist about this.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 32):
if we as a society decide that women have the right to an abortion

Society remains undecided on the issue there is pretty much a 50-50 split that hasn't changed.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 32):
we also have to make sure that that right is equally available to all women, not dependent on the woman's wealth.

We have the right to property ownership does that mean we have to make sure property is equally availlable to all (ie have the government pay for it) regardless of income.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:38 pm



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 42):
Interesting article in the Jan 3rd Economist about this.

The amazing thing about it all is that it receives more direct attention in foreign press than it does in Japanese media. The local media here treat it as one of many page 3 or 4 policy issues that repeatedly get buried in the newspaper.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Starbuk7
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:20 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 41):
Spend some time in lesser developped countries and experience the misery of those women who ain't have nothing to say ...They are declared breeding machines and house-keeper.The responsibility is mainly with men ...

I have spent time in lesser developed countries, all over Asia and Africa during my 20 years in the navy, and I have seen just about everything.

I am not worried about other countries and what their governments tell them to do. I am concerned with the United States and what my government seems to want to tell me what I can and cannot do.
 
mt99
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:29 pm



Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 40):

And again, if you are on welfare (which I don't agree with that system either since it is so corrupt) and you keep pumping out kids to get more money from the government that is wrong and improper decision making as well.

So you agree with Nancy once more. What is your point again? From the alarmist thread title seems like you opposed her view, but the more you post the more you agree with her.
Step into my office, baby
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:34 pm



Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 44):

I am not worried about other countries and what their governments tell them to do. I am concerned with the United States and what my government seems to want to tell me what I can and cannot do.

If the globe can support about 7 Billion population but with an ever growing desire to consume more fossile energy,pullute water,air and soil- there is no national solution to this problem but exclusively a global efford.Even if Europe and the US would have zero-pullution (which is impossible..) the rest of the world-population will make our lives miserable.
I've just read a remarkable book by Thomas L.Friedman,"hot,flat and crowded." -it will give you a brillant understanding of the issue.
http://www.boston.com/ae/books/artic.../17/warmly_embracing_clean_energy/
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windy95
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:57 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 32):
This plan would make sure people who feel that they are not willing or able to have kids have the resources to make that choice.

Then let her donate it out of her own rich pockets if she believes in it so much. But do not use tax dollars to support her position on the subject.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 32):
but I also think that, if we as a society decide that women have the right to an abortion, we also have to make sure that that right is equally available to all women, not dependent on the woman's wealth.

First of all we as a society did not decide. A court made the choice for us. If we had a choice or if it was made an amendment by Congress and signed by the Prez then you could say "we" decided.

And since our Government did decide to allow all citizens to have weapon's maybe the Gov should provide money to the "poor" citizens who cannot afford to have one. Making sure that the right is available to all and not just the wealthy.
 
AGM100
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:59 pm



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 35):
You don't have a right to breach someone else's rights.

Please ... are you in favor of our federal government promoting and paying for abortions ? I mean imagine the implications of the Federal government involved in Abortions. Then combine that with Her social agenda of taxing and punishing those who do not comply. At what point does the Fed make mandates on who needs abortions ? Or worse , target special groups in order to save "social costs" of some type. All part of the socialist utopia ??

Pelosi is a from the San Francisco "vampire" social club... extremely wealthy , extremely connected , extremely dis attached and lost in a liberal socialist fantasy.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
mt99
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RE: Pelosi: Fewer Babies = Stronger Economy

Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:08 pm



Quoting Windy95 (Reply 47):

Then let her donate it out of her own rich pockets if she believes in it so much. But do not use tax dollars to support her position on the subject.

Its not just her position. It is also the position of many millions of individual citizens.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 48):
At what point does the Fed make mandates on who needs abortions ? Or worse , target special groups in order to save "social costs" of some type

Stop using the slippery slope argument. It only useful if you read the National Enquirer. I give you more credit than that.
Step into my office, baby

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