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Dreadnought
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Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:37 am

Administration Plans to Bypass Commerce — and Gregg — on 2010 Census
By Jonathan Allen, CQ Staff
The director of the Census Bureau will report directly to the White House and not the secretary of Commerce, according to a senior White House official.



http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?parm1=3&docID=news-000003024858

The census has traditionally been handled by the Dept of Commerce, an otherwise fairly minor function. But with the nomination of a Republican as SecComm, the Administration has decided to avoid political manipulation of the census by... handing over to Rahm Emmanuel - one of the most partisan political people in Washington. Handing it over to Nancy Pelosi would hardly be worse.

The census is an important function. It is one of the few duties expressly demanded by the Constitution, and is supposed to be non-partisan and objectiv as possible. The census redraws congressional districts, and thus has a huge impact on the country.

With Sen. Judd Gregg, a Republican, in charge of the census, I think you had a pretty good chance of a fair census. He may be a Republican, but he reports to Obama, and is duty bound to follow his direction. Thus they could have checked each other, Obama making sure Gregg did not doctor the results, and Gregg ensuring the same.

Giving the census to the White House COS is a blatant attempt at redrawing congressional districts to ensure Republicans have a disproportionatly difficult time in traditionally battleground areas.

Change we can believe in, my butt. This administration is turning out to be the most corrupt in a long, long time, between the tax cheats, unprecidented pork barrel politics, blatant conflicts of interests etc.
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rfields5421
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:42 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
This administration is turning out to be the most corrupt in a long, long time, between the tax cheats, unprecidented pork barrel politics, blatant conflicts of interests etc.

I guess you mean since 1980-88?

That administration holds the record for the most convictions.

Heck, this administration has yet to beat the last one on resignation of cabinet appointees for taxes and immigration issues, and certainly cannot hold a candle to the conflict of interest of the last one.

Practically the only realtive clean, honest person taking office in 2001 was the President.
 
mham001
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:45 am



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 1):
Heck, this administration has yet to beat the last one on resignation of cabinet appointees for taxes and immigration issues, and certainly cannot hold a candle to the conflict of interest of the last one.

Practically the only realtive clean, honest person taking office in 2001 was the President.

Sounds like history revision to me. What are your sources for that statement?
 
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:47 am

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 1):
I guess you mean since 1980-88?

That administration holds the record for the most convictions.

If you compare the first 3 weeks of Bush and the first 3weeks of Obama, the latter are on a far worse trend. Same goes for the first weeks of Reagan.

[Edited 2009-02-06 17:47:28]
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rfields5421
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:45 pm

The first three weeks may well have more mistakes - but mistakes hardly qualify for the title "most corrupt".

All it indicates is that the Obama administration has fewer old Washington hands well versed in DC politics.

The most scary thing for me is a prediction I made over a year ago - that Obama's desire for change might result in a Jimmy Carter type administration where the President was fighting his own party leadership in Congress more than the other party.

There are more and more signs that President Obama is running into problems with the Democratic Party royalty and their plans not matching up well with his.
 
Blackbird
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:18 pm

Strikes me as a method to perform gerrymandering. Not good.

Is there any recourse to this?


Blackbird
 
Confuscius
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:46 pm

Elections have consequences. Rahmbo will be fair in gerrymandering as Tom DeLay did in Texas. Ah, the spoils of victory...
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Blackbird
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:41 pm

Confuscious,

You do know that adopting an "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" approach to all matters in life just leaves everybody toothless and blind right?

Gerrymandering isn't right if a Republican does it or a Democrat.


Blackbird
 
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:55 pm



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 7):
Confuscious,

You do know that adopting an "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" approach to all matters in life just leaves everybody toothless and blind right?

Gerrymandering isn't right if a Republican does it or a Democrat.

Well, remember, they wanted "change". The problem was, nobody knew "change" to what.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:58 pm



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 4):
All it indicates is that the Obama administration has fewer old Washington hands well versed in DC politics.

Who is this Tony Rezko? This man seems rather obscure...
What is Rezko's political background?
How did he end up being one of BH Obama's close friends? Is he a Chicago lawyer?
Where is he originating from... and most of all what is his position in the current administration?... or is he just an advisor?  Confused
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mayor
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:23 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):
Who is this Tony Rezko? This man seems rather obscure...
What is Rezko's political background?
How did he end up being one of BH Obama's close friends? Is he a Chicago lawyer?
Where is he originating from... and most of all what is his position in the current administration?... or is he just an advisor?

Tony Rezko is a Federally convicted slumlord. Fortunately, he hasn't been made a member of the administration, YET.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Rezko
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
rfields5421
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:25 pm



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 5):
Strikes me as a method to perform gerrymandering. Not good.

Is there any recourse to this?

There is little chance of the Census itself being gerrymandered. The states have total control of the apportionment and redrawing of district lines.

And is the US Supreme Court rules in the Texas case, it is perfectly acceptable for the state legislature to redraw the congressional district lines every two years, every four, or when ever they decide - as long as it is allowed by local state law.

The biggest 'fraud' threat is that the Census could result in higher counts in states which support the Democrats and lower counts in states which support Republicans. That strictly isn't Gerrymandering, because it does not involve drawing the district lines.

But given the size of the current minimum for a Congressional district in multi-district states - it is very doubtful that any states could actually lose seats.

On the local level, it is in the interest of every mayor, county administrator and governor to ensure the maximum number of possible people is counted - regardless of political party.

Besides the Congressional district influence, the census counts have their greatest impact on the amount of federal money which comes to a state, county or city.

Republican or Democrat on the local level, you want the highest count possible.
 
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:32 pm



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 4):
All it indicates is that the Obama administration has fewer old Washington hands well versed in DC politics.

Oh, BS.........for a man to have promised to not use Washington "insiders", he certainly has gone against that promise.........Biden, Clinton, Emanuel, etc.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:34 pm



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 11):
Republican or Democrat on the local level, you want the highest count possible.

And taking the administration away from the Department of Commerce accomplishes this, how?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:45 pm

What is "gerrymandering"? Never heard this word before.  Confused
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LH423
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:05 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
What is "gerrymandering"? Never heard this word before

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering

It's essentially redrawing congressional districts in order to give one political group an advantage. It's often done so that the population distribution in specific districts is split up so that it gives the electoral advantage to one party in several districts.

So say you have a district that votes primarily Democrat. You can change the district boundaries so that the largely Democratic areas merge with neighbouring districts so that the original district is now majority Republican and those Democratic voters are now minorities in the original district as well as the neighbouring districts so that it gives the Republicans another district that they'll most likely win in the next election...or vice versa.

LH423
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dragon6172
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:06 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
What is "gerrymandering"? Never heard this word before.

The drawing of a legislative districts boundaries in such a way to maximize the influence of a certain group or political party.
Named for Elbridge Gerry, governor of Mass. 1810-1812 who redrew the district lines. The distirct lines were somewhat in the shape of a salamander, the local newspaper ran an article and coined the term gerrymandering.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:18 pm



Quoting LH423 (Reply 15):



Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 16):

Thank you for your answers. I knew about the process. It is applied in many countries/elections. In French they call it redécoupage électoral.
I just did not know this word.  Yeah sure Now it's all clear.
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Confuscius
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:07 pm



Quoting Mayor (Reply 12):
Oh, BS.........for a man to have promised to not use Washington "insiders", he certainly has gone against that promise.......

You're right, there wasn't enough change. Pres. Obama has three Republicans in his cabinet.
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:00 pm



Quoting Confuscius (Reply 18):
You're right, there wasn't enough change. Pres. Obama has three Republicans in his cabinet.

Considering which political machine he learned at, it's not surprising that he has trouble with the truth. And for you to think that ALL Republicans are bad just shows how brainwashed you are. You do know, don't you, that ex-Illinois Governor Blagoiovich (sp?) was a Democrat don't you?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
Confuscius
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:11 am



Quoting Mayor (Reply 19):
You do know, don't you, that ex-Illinois Governor Blagoiovich (sp?) was a Democrat don't you?

Yep, the problem with him is he got caught just like his Republican predecessor. The smart ones, like the current mayor, don't. Speaking of Mayor Daley, did you know that when he finishes his current term he'll be the longest serving mayor of Chicago, breaking his father's record.

Ain't I a stinker?
 
rfields5421
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:34 am

Corruption and stupidity have never been limited to only one party.

Anyone who wants to pretend a fiction that one party is dirtier or cleaner than the other just proves their own ignorance.

Each party has it crooks, which thankfully the blatent ones are relatively rare.

That's not to say that what appears to be the vast majority on both sides of the aisle will use every advantage they can to get ahead. Though on moral terms there is not a difference between accepting "the benefits of office" and out right demands for bribes, most politicians do see a vast difference.

My greatest hope would be for term limits and enforcable laws to stop the revolving door of government service and lobbying - or what ever name you want to call those sweetheart jobs so many retired politicians receive.

But I'm not going to hold my breath waiting on either to happen. Nor do I expect my grandchildren, now near teenage years, to see that happen either.

So many of the reforms we see as essential can only occur when the people of this nation demand a new constitution, written to protect them from the politiicans.

Ain't gonna happen.
 
Blackbird
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:58 am

Mayor,

Quote:
Well, remember, they wanted "change". The problem was, nobody knew "change" to what.

That was kind of something I was worried about actually. Change isn't necessarily good -- it depends on *what* the change is.

Quote:
The biggest 'fraud' threat is that the Census could result in higher counts in states which support the Democrats and lower counts in states which support Republicans. That strictly isn't Gerrymandering, because it does not involve drawing the district lines.

Which is a very bad thing...


RFields5421,

Quote:
Besides the Congressional district influence, the census counts have their greatest impact on the amount of federal money which comes to a state, county or city.

Which could be used as a weapon. You could reward states that either have large amounts of democrats, or those that just play-ball by giving them huge amounts of funding, and punish states that have large amounts of republicans, or even those who just don't play ball by strangling their funds.


Mayor,

Quote:
Considering which political machine he learned at, it's not surprising that he has trouble with the truth. And for you to think that ALL Republicans are bad just shows how brainwashed you are. You do know, don't you, that ex-Illinois Governor Blagoiovich (sp?) was a Democrat don't you?

Actually, I personally think they're all crooks...


Blackbird
 
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:47 am



Quoting Confuscius (Reply 20):


Quoting Mayor (Reply 19):
You do know, don't you, that ex-Illinois Governor Blagoiovich (sp?) was a Democrat don't you?

Yep, the problem with him is he got caught just like his Republican predecessor. The smart ones, like the current mayor, don't. Speaking of Mayor Daley, did you know that when he finishes his current term he'll be the longest serving mayor of Chicago, breaking his father's record.

Yeah...and the Democratic governors of Illinois before Gov. Ryan....in no particular order....Dan Walker, Otto Kerner, etc., crooks all. As for Mayor Daley, I'm all too familiar with that political family having been born and raised in Illinois and the Chicago area during Richard J. Daley's crooked term.....his son is just as bad as he is, just not caught yet. The three Democratic mayors before Richard M.'s term didn't do much for the city, either.....Michael Bilandic, "Calamity" Jane Byrne and Harold Washington.


Remember what Richard J. Daley always said......"vote early and vote often"  Yeah sure
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
rfields5421
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:58 am



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 22):
Which could be used as a weapon. You could reward states that either have large amounts of democrats, or those that just play-ball by giving them huge amounts of funding, and punish states that have large amounts of republicans, or even those who just don't play ball by strangling their funds.

And this is different from how our Congress has worked for over 200 years how?

There is not a single person in Washington DC today who can play the 'you scratch my back, I'll scratch your back' game as well as the masters like LBJ, John Stennis, John McClellan, Wilbur Mills, etc.

While these were all Dixiecrats, and LBJ had a definite progressive social agenda, Stennis and McClellan were more conservative than most of the current Republican senators.
 
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mayor
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:49 pm

Seems a little partisan and "insiderish" for Obama to say that Bill Richardson, his original choice to be commerce secretary, would be in charge of the census, but, as soon as he appointed a Republican, he yanked that function away from the department.

Odd, don't you think? Is this the "change" you voted for?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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RE: Census To Be Managed By The White House

Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:04 pm



Quoting Mayor (Reply 25):
Odd, don't you think? Is this the "change" you voted for?

How can you say such a thing. You know very well that Obama is "post-partisan".
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