virgin744
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N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:46 am

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-03/09/content_10972181.htm

PYONGYANG, March 9 (Xinhua) -- The Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) said on Monday it will launch a war on the territory of the United States, Japan and South Korea, if its satellite launching "for peaceful purpose" was intercepted.

Although they are always big talkers this time I find the tone even more absurd. The timing isn't helpful either, they know that all these countries are deep in recession and can not afford to start another one at the moment.
 
Pyrex
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:09 am

S*it. I am going to South Korea in less than two weeks... first the threat to shoot down civilian airliners, now this...
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Mir
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:10 am



Quoting Virgin744 (Thread starter):
The timing isn't helpful either, they know that all these countries are deep in recession and can not afford to start another one at the moment.

Except that they wouldn't be starting it. North Korea would have that honor.

Assuming that the US won't respond because of the economic crisis requires a level of stupidity that I don't think Kim Jong Il has reached.

-Mir
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DfwRevolution
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:24 am



Quoting Virgin744 (Thread starter):
Although they are always big talkers this time I find the tone even more absurd.

North Korea is really putting the U.S. (and everyone else) in a lose-lose situation here. There are many ways in which a DPRK launch could go bad and further deteriorate relations with the regime.

* The capability to launch a satellite is indistinguishable from the capability to launch an ICBM. If North Korea demonstrates they can orbit this "peaceful" satellite, they gain significant leverage in any future negotiations.

* What happens if this launch vehicle fails as so many North Korean missiles do? Does North Korea blame the U.S. when it did nothing to intercept the vehicle? If the launch vehicle doesn't achieve orbital velocity, what is the U.S. to do with a suborbital object coming our direction from North Korea? Do we intercept then, knowing what North Korea will do in reaction? Do we let North Korea literally demonstrate they can put a warhead down on our territory?

Lastly, I can only hope that the Obama administration back-offs their hostility toward "unproven" anti-ballistic missile technology. I don't care how much it costs, national defense should be the first priority of the federal government and ballistic missile technology is only going to get more prolific in the future. We need effective defenses and it will take us longer to develop anti-missile technology than it will take our enemies to obtain missiles of their own. We can't stop development and deployment of new systems because we won't have time to re-start them once we are threatened.
 
NIKV69
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:35 am

I think Hillary should call a meeting with Kim Jong and bring him a reset button like she did in Russia. That will clear everything up.

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
Assuming that the US won't respond because of the economic crisis requires a level of stupidity that I don't think Kim Jong Il has reached.

Or figuring we are at our weakest during this crisis.
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PPVRA
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:38 am



Quoting Virgin744 (Thread starter):
it will launch a war on the territory of the United States, Japan and South Korea, if its satellite launching "for peaceful purpose" was intercepted.

Yeah and it'll be the end of this pathetic regime too.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 1):
S*it. I am going to South Korea in less than two weeks... first the threat to shoot down civilian airliners, now this...

You'll see interesting flight paths. Flying around NK on the way, and taking off from Incheon is directly northbound (depending on winds). . you know the pilot will turn but you still think bout it. .

South Korea is great though, I hope to go back there in the near future.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:53 am



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 5):
Yeah and it'll be the end of this pathetic regime too.

Well there's the school of thought that dictators love power so much they would never do anything provocative enough to prompt a war that could topple them. Unfortunately IMO, that requires more rationality than I think the every single dictator possesses.

I want regime change in the DPRK as much as the next guy, but it's hard to imagine a war on the Korean peninsula that doesn't end with a million plus civilian casualties.
 
PPVRA
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:03 am



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 6):
that requires more rationality than I think the every single dictator possesses.

Especially, ahem, the one in question. .

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 6):
I want regime change in the DPRK as much as the next guy, but it's hard to imagine a war on the Korean peninsula that doesn't end with a million plus civilian casualties.

I think regime change there can only come from within. Either a revolt (which seems unlikely, poor and weak population) or a Raul Castro kind of leader who slowly opens up the country. . it's not like the South Koreans would really know what to do in case of a complete opening and/or a sudden re-unification, either.

It's a truly sad and at the same time revoltingly stupid situation. How any regime can be so inhuman is simply beyond me.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:57 am

What happens when these countries retaliate.  Smile
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bill142
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:38 am



Quoting Virgin744 (Thread starter):
The timing isn't helpful either, they know that all these countries are deep in recession and can not afford to start another one at the moment.

North Korea has been on the brink of bankruptcy since the Soviet Union failed. Any recession in Asia or the US would give North Korea little advantage, as it's equipment is out of date and it's people are malnourished. This is little more then chest beating by North Korea. They simply do not have the ability to take on their neighbours and the US and think they can win. If they do, it will ultimately lead to the north becoming part of the south or part of China.
 
AGM100
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:31 pm

The fact that the Chinese have not just crushed that little turd is what I am having trouble understanding.

How much of the idea that NK is essentially a pit bull at the end of China's leash may be true? A pit-bull that conveniently harasses the US , Japan and SK every once and a while to just show who is in charge.

China must have a good measure of influence over NK ... could they do more to clean up that mess?
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whappeh
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:39 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 8):
What happens when these countries retaliate. Smile
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MEL.

North Korea ceases to exist.
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Aaron747
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:47 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 10):

China must have a good measure of influence over NK ... could they do more to clean up that mess?

The DPRK is quite the annoyance to China these days. The primary reason China wishes to avoid a collapse of the regime next door is that 20 million refugees would suddenly be entering their northeastern hinterlands. Preparations for such a scenario have been made for the last several years, and the logistics measures massed near the border since have been no secret during the last few rounds of the six party talks.

It's in China's immediate interest that North Korea remains a viable and stable state, in whatever form it may take.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 10):
How much of the idea that NK is essentially a pit bull at the end of China's leash may be true?

I discount such a notion based on the fact that China itself has excellent capabilities in various expressions of realpolitik and the completely wacko nature of the Dear Leaders Kim doesn't jive with the methodical nature of the last three decades of Chinese government.
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Mir
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:10 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 4):
Or figuring we are at our weakest during this crisis.

We are. But even in our weakened state, we can still kick North Korea's ass should they attack another sovereign nation.

-Mir
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DocLightning
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:35 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 13):

We are. But even in our weakened state, we can still kick North Korea's ass should they attack another sovereign nation.

-Mir

The problem is how to do it. We're not about to nuke them. The problem is that they aren't a democracy. We can roll in there and completely dismantle their government, but then what? We'd have another Iraq on our hands.

Now, if NK is dumb enough to actually attack anyone, then we won't have much of a choice.

For me, I am a big fan of EMP weapons. I think that's a very effective way to shut down North Korea.
-Doc Lightning-

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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:03 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
The problem is that they aren't a democracy. We can roll in there and completely dismantle their government, but then what? We'd have another Iraq on our hands.

I don't think so. I don't think you'd see the insurgency in North Korea that we're seeing in Iraq and Afghanistan today. But then again I'm not an intel officer.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 12):
The DPRK is quite the annoyance to China these days. The primary reason China wishes to avoid a collapse of the regime next door is that 20 million refugees would suddenly be entering their northeastern hinterlands. Preparations for such a scenario have been made for the last several years, and the logistics measures massed near the border since have been no secret during the last few rounds of the six party talks.

It's in China's immediate interest that North Korea remains a viable and stable state, in whatever form it may take.

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The issue of North Korea is one issue the US and China have generally agreed upon and has helped US/China relations - recently both countries were signing members of a 6 way treaty regarding the DPRK.
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Kiqaboy
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:21 pm

For China USA is more important that NK, cause China has good economic relation with USA and they sell lot of stuff to US and visa vers. So if the war will start I'm sure that China will be part of the alliance against NK. the second reason is that keeping NK population inside NK cost less then hosting them in China.
And as someone mentioned above NK army is outdated they have a big force but technology maters in this time as proven before in a conventional war.NK army will be the same as Iraqi army more than half of them will desert in the first step of the war cause they are hungry and they will do any thing to feed their self and family.

One problem is that Seoul is only 40 KM from the NK and you can hit it very easy with heavy artillery you would not need missiles to strike Seoul.

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fatmirjusufi
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:48 pm



Quoting Virgin744 (Thread starter):
N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

...and WW3 begins.  worried 

Fatmir
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Pyrex
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:08 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
We can roll in there and completely dismantle their government, but then what? We'd have another Iraq on our hands.

Then it will be South Korea's problem, as it should. The fact is, despite all the talk South Korea does not want reunification as this would imply they would have to deal with the mess that is the North - they saw what happened in East Germany and fear it, times 10.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
For me, I am a big fan of EMP weapons. I think that's a very effective way to shut down North Korea.

Have you seen pictures of North Korea at night? You can't really see any lights in there, it is not like an EMP weapon would have much effect.
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Dougloid
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:32 pm



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 21):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
For me, I am a big fan of EMP weapons. I think that's a very effective way to shut down North Korea.

Have you seen pictures of North Korea at night? You can't really see any lights in there, it is not like an EMP weapon would have much effect.

Yeh. HJow you gonna EMP a kerosene lantern?
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par13del
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:17 pm

Since the Korean war did not end in a peace treaty, and it was a UN action, why not let the UN sort it out, no need for the US to play peace keeper.
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:40 pm



Quoting Par13del (Reply 23):
why not let the UN sort it out

As big a proponent of the UN as I can be, it wouldn't do jack, not with China on the Security Council ready and willing to veto any measures that might, in its opinion, either violate the DPRK's national sovereignty, or cause instability there.
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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:45 pm

My prediction if this thing goes hot is once the North Korean government is defeated, you'd see North Korea united with South Korea under the South Korean government and the country would just become one unified "Korea" following the conclusion of hostilities.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
Mir
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:31 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
The problem is how to do it. We're not about to nuke them. The problem is that they aren't a democracy. We can roll in there and completely dismantle their government, but then what? We'd have another Iraq on our hands.

Now, if NK is dumb enough to actually attack anyone, then we won't have much of a choice.

Of course. I don't support pulling another Iraq with N. Korea. They have to attack someone first. But once they do, I don't have any problem taking military action.

-Mir
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Acheron
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:56 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 22):
My prediction if this thing goes hot is once the North Korean government is defeated, you'd see North Korea united with South Korea under the South Korean government and the country would just become one unified "Korea" following the conclusion of hostilities.

We'll probably see South Korea rounding up NK refugees and sending them to camps while the South figures out what to, possibly leading to a humanitary disaster because the South can't handle the sudden influx of people and with the current economic crisis, unable to invest much money to rebuild the North.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:58 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 23):

Of course. I don't support pulling another Iraq with N. Korea. They have to attack someone first. But once they do, I don't have any problem taking military action.

But it needs to be a brief, decisive one. "We're coming in, we're toppling the government. We're setting up a provisional government. We're overseeing things for 6 months and then leaving. We could care less what government replaces the one we toppled, but DON'T do it again."

You can't fix everything.
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AGM100
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:04 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 12):
It's in China's immediate interest that North Korea remains a viable and stable state, in whatever form it may take.

Seems to me they could call up the little fella there and talk a bit of sense into him. But what would they propose as a alternate to his rule ? A communist politburo ? Its not like they could support a change in government ... communist / dicto fascist not much difference. But it seems they could at least try to help NK build its economy .. like the US did to counties in its sphere of influence.

Quoting Mir (Reply 23):
They have to attack someone first

Well that may be easy to say if you don't live.. in ... Japan or SK. But I agree , starving millions of your citizens and threatening your neighbors is not quite ... enough. China needs to clean this up ... they created it ..they need to fix it.
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Aaron747
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:30 am



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 26):
Its not like they could support a change in government ... communist / dicto fascist not much difference.

Communism in today's China is a far cry from the Stalinist system represented by the Dear Leaders Kim.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 26):
China needs to clean this up ... they created it ..they need to fix it.

The blame is China's alone? Pretty revisionist. The blame starts with 1930s Japan, you can run the clock forward to China, the US, and USSR for the blame game.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
N174UA
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:04 am



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 7):
in case of a complete opening and/or a sudden re-unification, either.

It was said in 1990 that it would take Germany a generation before true reunification was accomplished. We're 20 years in (already!) and while progress has been made, it's still like the North and the South after the Civil War. A reunited Korea will be a million times worse.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
We'd have another Iraq on our hands.

Not even close. More like what we saw when the Nazi concentration camps were liberated - people on the verge of death. Probably the worst humanitarian disaster in history.
 
Falcon84
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:50 am

Let 'em bluster. You have to always take a rogue nation like them seriously, but they know fulll well if they launched an attack in any of those directions, it'd be the end of their nation. If they don't believe that, they're crazier than I think they are.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:06 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 29):
Let 'em bluster. You have to always take a rogue nation like them seriously, but they know fulll well if they launched an attack in any of those directions, it'd be the end of their nation. If they don't believe that, they're crazier than I think they are.

Like I said previously, that school of thought relies on the assumption that at the core of every tin-pot dictatorship is some tiny kernel of reason. The law of averages would dictate that eventually you will have a dictator that is crazy beyond reason.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
We'd have another Iraq on our hands.

In Iraq we faced both domestic unrest and deliberate efforts of sabotaging the U.S. occupation by Al Queda with the help of Iran and Syria. What would be the analogous element to Al Queda if we were occupying North Korea? I don't think there would be, so the occupation would have a very different nature.
 
AGM100
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:06 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 27):
The blame is China's alone?

Well they did fight the UN to a stalemate and establish (or sponsor ) the communist government in NK ... essentially. Correct ?


What would be the reaction I wonder if the USN shot down the next NK Missile test. ? The last test firring if I recall passed relatively close to Japanese airspace , I would support the decision to shoot it down.
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scrubbsywg
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:20 am

the one interesting thing i read was...

what IF they do launch a satellite, or attempt to. Say this rocket fails to get into orbit and it is going towards the US or north america. Would NK hit the destruct button?
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:22 am



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 22):
My prediction if this thing goes hot is once the North Korean government is defeated, you'd see North Korea united with South Korea under the South Korean government and the country would just become one unified "Korea" following the conclusion of hostilities.

This is exactly what the South Korean government is afraid of. The german reunification happened during a time of relative economic prosperity and West Germany was much richer than South Korea, while East Germany never was as poor as North Korea. And we are still paying off reunification costsand will do so for the next decades.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 31):
Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 27):
The blame is China's alone?

Well they did fight the UN to a stalemate and establish (or sponsor ) the communist government in NK ... essentially. Correct ?


Well, China back then didn't want to have American troops at her border and they gave ample warning. Only when American troops approached the border to China did they suddenlysend those millions of "volunteers".

I'm not sure how China would react today if US troops would appear in North Korea. Traditionally China sees the Korean peninsula as her zone of influence (up to the late 19th century, the Korean emperor had to swear fealty to the Chinese one and had to pay tribute, same as the Vietnamese one).

Jan
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WunalaYann
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:26 am



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 30):
What would be the analogous element to Al Queda if we were occupying North Korea?

Perhaps China and Russia might be somewhat displeased with having a toppled buffer state in the hands of Western powers on their very borders, complete with massive Western troop presence?

If you think Iran and Syria are powerful adversaries in Iraq (and I believe they are), then we face an almighty foe in China and Russia if we are ever to occupy North Korea.

Their combined intel/spy networks in North Korea are quite strong already, and one can only assume that they would ramp up the numbers of agents they have there should we give sign of belligerence against North Korea. While destabilisation may not take the form of outright bombings, sabotage, propaganda and international pressure (China and Russia sit at the UNSC, unlike anyone from the Middle East) would be a human, military, economic and political nightmare to deal with.
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:42 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 25):
But it needs to be a brief, decisive one. "We're coming in, we're toppling the government. We're setting up a provisional government. We're overseeing things for 6 months and then leaving. We could care less what government replaces the one we toppled, but DON'T do it again."

Oh, it won't be like Iraq. But that's not saying it'll be better. No, no.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 30):
Like I said previously, that school of thought relies on the assumption that at the core of every tin-pot dictatorship is some tiny kernel of reason. The law of averages would dictate that eventually you will have a dictator that is crazy beyond reason.

Can't argue with that here...but, is Kim Jong Il even alive?

Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 34):
Perhaps China and Russia might be somewhat displeased with having a toppled buffer state in the hands of Western powers on their very borders, complete with massive Western troop presence?

I don't think they want to touch this with a one hundred foot pole...for a very good reason...

Just ask yourselves, everyone, what the heck does the DPRK need a comm sattelite for!? The only city that even gets any meaningful amount of electricity in the whole damn country is Pyongyang!

They have guns, mortars, missiles, etc numbering in the thousands pointed at Seoul. Yes, the ROK and the US have superior forces, but the North's numbers are staggering, even with malnourished troops.

The North would lose, of this I am certain, in a military conflict. But the damage in the meantime would be severe. South Korea seems to be the only country the North can directly devastate, and they could do it easily. The casualties in the first few days, nay hours, of a renewed war at the DMZ would number in the hundreds of thousands before the DPRK is exhausted and crushed.

And then what? What happens after you topple the DPRK? Ideally you would want unify the nation again. Korea has seen enough foreign occupation. But this is NOT like reunited East Germany to West. The difference between North and South is like night and day...literally. Infrastructure, capital, healthcare, education (lots of brainwashing to be undone), laws, etc. People who lived under the DPRK are in for a major shock when they are no longer isolated from the world. Can the majority of them handle the fact that Kim Il Sung was not some deity after all?

The war, and the costs of brining the North up to the standards of the South would drive the ROK (as the whole country would be called, dropping the "North" or "South" moniker) as well as the region, into an economic depression.

Everyone here is talking about insurgency and destabilization. With conditions as bad as they are in the North to begin with, it's not necessary for either Russia or China to worry about fostering such things. They're more concerned about refugees than a nation that may be an adversary, but is otherwise barely able to cope with a reunification crisis.

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par13del
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:53 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 22):
My prediction if this thing goes hot is once the North Korean government is defeated, you'd see North Korea united with South Korea under the South Korean government and the country would just become one unified "Korea" following the conclusion of hostilities

You are assuming that the South would win, the South's penchant for taking casualities probably mirrors the feelings in the west, they do not want a war, the north on the other hand, those folks have no choice.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 25):
But it needs to be a brief, decisive one. "We're coming in, we're toppling the government. We're setting up a provisional government. We're overseeing things for 6 months and then leaving. We could care less what government replaces the one we toppled, but DON'T do it again

Is that not what Shock and Awe was all about, it did not work then what makes you think it will work now, regardless of whether its the civilian side, the UN side or the military side who failed, bottom line is that it did not work, too many ducks have to be lined up for that to work. No citizen of any country wants to be occupied, all you need are small numbers of rouge agents and you have an insurgency, certainely worked during WWII and every conflict since then, save the Malaysia conflict when the Brits were there.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 31):
Well they did fight the UN to a stalemate and establish (or sponsor ) the communist government in NK ... essentially. Correct ?

The key to why there will not be any US intervention, the north would have to attack and once that starts, the west will essentially end up fighting for a return to status quo, the west has no desire to have thousands of casualities in any campaign to free the north. I say west because we still have the UN mandate, whether other nations put up any additional forces is the million dollar question.
 
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:47 pm



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 33):
Traditionally China sees the Korean peninsula as her zone of influence

This in my opinion is correct ... so I would hope that they get to "influencing" .. soon.
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StuckInCA
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:56 pm



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 3):
I don't care how much it costs

Spoken like a true conservative  Wink

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 3):
I can only hope that the Obama administration back-offs their hostility toward "unproven" anti-ballistic missile technology.

NMD has been heavily funded since the Reagan administration and it's still just a big science project rampant with wasteful spending.
 
B2443
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:44 pm

I think we should stop looking at individual events...small countries wouldn't go provacative without support of BIG countries.

This North Korea thing makes headlines tells me China is really really not happy. The "US ship harassment" means the U.S is really really not happy. It's going to continue when the big players find their balance point. Obama administration is relative young and they are just testing the waters. China is just trying to show Obama the bottom lines. Unfortunately this goes on every 4 (or 8) years, talk about the time and energy wasted. Mar-Apr for Obama this year and Bush in 2001, coincidence? I think not. Same frigging tactics for some short term attention?

Or is Obama shifting focus from domestic economic plans (none has really worked) to an international 'crisis'? Then bad news for all of us in the US.

For the US, anything related the N Korea, Iran, what whatever hot spots, think China and Russia.

For China, anything related to Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang, East/South China Sea island disputes, there's the U.S.

It's US/Europe vs China and Russia. This is big boys' games.
 
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:02 pm



Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 35):
Everyone here is talking about insurgency and destabilization.

I am not talking about insurgency. Destabilisation is not a synonym of insurgency. You can destabilise by sabotage, propaganda, corruption, industrial/economic spying, military pressure, political obstruction (again, Russia and China sit at the UNSC), etc. Conducting such activities does not necessarily require the active participation of the North Korean population.

But to imagine that China and Russia will sit idly while we occupy the Peninsula is, I believe, wishful thinking.

 Smile
 
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:40 am



Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 40):
I am not talking about insurgency. Destabilisation is not a synonym of insurgency. You can destabilise by sabotage, propaganda, corruption, industrial/economic spying, military pressure, political obstruction (again, Russia and China sit at the UNSC), etc. Conducting such activities does not necessarily require the active participation of the North Korean population.

Hency why I listed destabilisation and insurgency.  Wink All of this is true unfortunately, but they also would incur the cost of a few million refugees. It's a double edge sword.

Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 40):
But to imagine that China and Russia will sit idly while we occupy the Peninsula is, I believe, wishful thinking.

It may also be in their interests to see us tied down there. While they certainly don't want to deal with the humanitarian crisis that may flow across their borders, they know the US military is stretched as it is. Adding Korea to the list weakens us.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall at Chinese or Russian government staff meetings...

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par13del
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:52 am



Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 41):
While they certainly don't want to deal with the humanitarian crisis that may flow across their borders

Not to dispute anyone on this, but Russia and China still control a lot of information from their countries, I won't even mention North Korea, but the numbers that we hear thrown around about the humanitarian crisis do they have any basis in fact or are they assumptions based on some western numerical formulae? Does either China or North Korea allow aid agencies in to help those on the China NK border, is it known how many are actually there, and what about the rest of the country in general, do we have real info or is this another case of groups playing up the numbers to bring more attention, this has been done before its why I ask.
 
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:50 pm

Much ado about nothing. Woof, woof…DPRK thumping its chest again….

If they step out of line, we halt food shipments, it’s that simple. They’re one step away from being knuckle dragging cavemen as it is and survive because of the generosity of nations they claim to hate and want to destroy. Whatever…North Korea is like the petulant kid down the street who just needs a beatdown.

Quoting Par13del (Reply 20):
Since the Korean war did not end in a peace treaty, and it was a UN action, why not let the UN sort it out, no need for the US to play peace keeper.

I’ve been saying this for years. Time for our troops to come home. South Korea is grown up, they can man the DMZ on their own. DPRK is perfectly isolated, the absolutely perfect totalitarian regime. Let ‘em spin there. They’re not going to do shit.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:33 pm



Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 40):

But to imagine that China and Russia will sit idly while we occupy the Peninsula is, I believe, wishful thinking.

My suggestion (and I think Obama would do this) is to sit down with China and Russia and say "Here's what we're going to do and long-term occupation is not on the agenda; we've quite enough other issues to deal with." In other words, work together with the other two powers to make sure that we have a game plan.
-Doc Lightning-

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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:53 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
My suggestion (and I think Obama would do this) is to sit down with China and Russia and say "Here's what we're going to do and long-term occupation is not on the agenda; we've quite enough other issues to deal with." In other words, work together with the other two powers to make sure that we have a game plan.

Hey, bring a bottle of wine too...

Newsflash: they don't give a shit! Keeping DPRK on the chain, distracting the rest of the world, and creating strife is exactly part of their agenda. They are not interested in any such 'game plan' I think.
 
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:06 pm



Quoting Par13del (Reply 42):
Not to dispute anyone on this, but Russia and China still control a lot of information from their countries, I won't even mention North Korea, but the numbers that we hear thrown around about the humanitarian crisis do they have any basis in fact or are they assumptions based on some western numerical formulae? Does either China or North Korea allow aid agencies in to help those on the China NK border, is it known how many are actually there, and what about the rest of the country in general, do we have real info or is this another case of groups playing up the numbers to bring more attention, this has been done before its why I ask.

I would say all of the above. The DPRK still relies heavily on foreign food shipments since the famines of the 1990s.

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DLA330
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RE: N.Korea: We'll Attack U.S, Japan, S Korea

Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:22 am

Reunification would be nice but I don't think it will ever happen. Maybe it will in my lifetime but it might be a very long time before it ever happens.

I also don't think North Korea is launching a satellite. It's probably the Taepodong-II missile. Japan said that they would intercept it if it hits their airspace.

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