lhr380
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9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:44 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7936817.stm

Breaking news, 9 shot dead in School in Germany!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7936382.stm

10 Dead in Shooting Spree in Alabama.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
levent
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:36 pm

With the economic crisis going on, people losing their jobs and getting desperate, and the ease of getting firearms in the USA, it wouldn't surprise me if such events will happen more often this year.
 
fatmirjusufi
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:43 pm

Shock news.
RIP all victims.

Fatmir
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racko
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:52 pm

Death toll in Germany is up to 16. Apparently the gunman was on the run for over 3 hours! He was killed about one hour ago.
 
TheSonntag
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:59 pm

The short timeframe in between lets me think whether there was any connection. More probable, though, might be that the German started after he heard from the shooting in the US...
 
fatmirjusufi
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:03 pm



Quoting Racko (Reply 3):
He was killed about one hour ago.

He didn't kill himself?
DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
 
aircatalonia
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:04 pm

In southern Spain a 74-year old man started shooting everyone in a hospital. 2 people are hurt, one of them in critical condition.
 
OHLHD
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:33 pm



Quoting FatmirJusufi (Reply 5):
He didn't kill himself?

No, he was shot in a shoot out with the police. He killed 9 kids and 3 teachers in school, 1 from a hospital, 2 more people at a supermarket and later he was shot dead. He obviously took someone hostage who drove him to his hometown. About 1000 police men were involved today and several people ( especially kids) are treated in hospitals.

Absolutely shocking!!!!!

May those who died RIP and this insane maniac burn in hell forever!
 
skyman
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:34 pm



Quoting FatmirJusufi (Reply 5):
He didn't kill himself?

No he got shoot by the Police in a Supermarket. 2 more died there and both policemen got wounded. Total of 16 dead and an unknown number of injured.

 crying 
 
KirkSeattle
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:36 pm



Quoting Levent (Reply 1):
With the economic crisis going on, people losing their jobs and getting desperate, and the ease of getting firearms in the USA, it wouldn't surprise me if such events will happen more often this year.

The guy in Alabama didn't lose his job according to the reports.

And regarding ease of firearms in the USA, apparently they are also easily available for 17 year olds in Germany.


Sad.
 tombstone 

-Kirk
 
daedaeg
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:50 pm

I'm just amazed at how little these people value life. The one in Alabama even shot and killed a small toddler. What the hell?
Everyday you're alive is a good day.
 
keesje
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:59 pm

AK-47 ?! Absolutely Nuts !

Who is responsible for allowing these kind of weapons to be in privat ownership?

Sue them !

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
fatmirjusufi
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:01 pm



Quoting OHLHD (Reply 7):
Quoting FatmirJusufi (Reply 5):
He didn't kill himself?

No, he was shot in a shoot out with the police. He killed 9 kids and 3 teachers in school, 1 from a hospital, 2 more people at a supermarket and later he was shot dead. He obviously took someone hostage who drove him to his hometown. About 1000 police men were involved today and several people ( especially kids) are treated in hospitals.

Absolutely shocking!!!!!

May those who died RIP and this insane maniac burn in hell forever!



Quoting OHLHD (Reply 7):
Quoting FatmirJusufi (Reply 5):
He didn't kill himself?

No he got shoot by the Police in a Supermarket. 2 more died there and both policemen got wounded. Total of 16 dead and an unknown number of injured.

What a !@#$%^& moron!  Angry
DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
 
georgiabill
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:22 pm

Condolences to the families and friends of all the victims. May they rest in peace.
 
Thorben
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:51 pm



Quoting Skyman (Reply 8):
No he got shoot by the Police in a Supermarket. 2 more died there and both policemen got wounded. Total of 16 dead and an unknown number of injured.

I would like to take the opportunity to thank Otto Schily and Wolfgang Schäuble for making this country such a safe place. I think it is great that I - as a law-abiding citizen - have to submit fingerprints for passport and ID card, are under video surveillance everywhere, have my phone, email, and internet connections stored for half a year, while people can walk around in schools and supermarkets and shoot a good dozen people.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
pilotntrng
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:11 pm

The one and only thing I will ever agree with liberals in the US, is tighter gun control. I am sorry if I offend some that are avid "hunters", but what beast of an animal that lives in the US that requires an M-16 or an AK-47??? Paralysis Neckis Upis is a rampant disease that is an epidemic in this country. Sadly our stupidity is spreading.
Booooo Lois, Yaaaa Beer!!!
 
pelican
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:15 pm

RIP to all those who died today.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 14):
are under video surveillance everywhere,

Where in Germany woukd that be???  Yeah sure

pelican
 
commander_rabb
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabam

Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:20 pm

My oh my, Germany has its own Columbine. The Germans must be seething. The use of an assault weapon too! It just goes to show you, mental illness has no borders and is not exported or exclusive to one country.

Is this the most deaths by one person in Germany since 1945?
 
pelican
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:38 pm



Quoting Commander_Rabb (Reply 17):
My oh my, Germany has its own Columbine. The Germans must be seething. The use of an assault weapon too! It just goes to show you, mental illness has no borders and is not exported or exclusive to one country.

Is this the most deaths by one person in Germany since 1945?

1.) This wasn't the first school massacre in Germany. In 2002 a similar massacre happened in Erfurt. Others of a smaller scale followed.
2.) The weapon used by the murder was a Baretta 92 - so no assault weapon, but an "ordinary" 9mm pistol.
3.) The mad gunman in Erfurt killed 16 people and himself in 2002 and I'm sure we had our share of mad mass murders overhere, too, who murdered even more victims.

Quoting KirkSeattle (Reply 9):
And regarding ease of firearms in the USA, apparently they are also easily available for 17 year olds in Germany.

How do you draw that conclusion?

pelican
 
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autothrust
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:06 pm

This is a horrible day. The cruelty of this attacks are incredible. I don't think we can imagine how much families are destroyed.  crying   tombstone 
Its amazing how coward this bastards are as they kill always themselves so they can escape punishment. My thoughts are with the families. May victims rest in peace.

On a german newschannel they reported he didn't pass the exams while most of its classmates did. Like the other murderes they wanted revenge against the society and school.

However at one point i have to say most school systems in Europe are a total desaster and partly guilty at generating such cases IMO.
“Faliure is not an option.”
 
Springbok747
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:10 pm

What a terrible incident. Condolences to all involved.

Quoting Commander_Rabb (Reply 17):

Good to see you again (after a long time!) Commander, welcome back.

BTW..the Alabama shooting...seems he was an ex-cop.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03....spree/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
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CARST
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:14 pm

Quoting Pelican (Reply 18):
How do you draw that conclusion?

Why do you ask the question? You know he is totally right. We Germans talk to much how wrong it is that in America everyone can have a weapon, but every 2 years we have our own amok mass murders in schools and the people always had legal weapons.

In Erfurt the young guy was in a shooting club himself and in this case of today his parents were hunters and had 16 (!!!) weapons in there basement and 1 (the pistol he used) in their bedroom.

He just had to go to his parents bedroom, take the 9mm pistol, take about 200 pieces of ammunition and was ready for his crazy mass murder plans...

Btw CNN has it all as their headline: http://edition.cnn.com/

Link to a detailed story: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/eu...germany.school.shooting/index.html

[Edited 2009-03-11 15:15:43]
 
co777er
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:18 pm

Do you know what an assault rifle is? I bet not. Educate yourself before you make false statements.

It's 11 mins. long, and will probably be the best 11 mins you will spend this evening.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysf8x477c30&e
 
Springbok747
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:34 pm



Quoting CARST (Reply 21):
He just had to go to his parents bedroom, take the 9mm pistol, take about 200 pieces of ammunition and was ready for his crazy mass murder plans...

Why were those weapons so accessible? If they were locked in a safe, no way he would have gotten to them. We have guns at home, but they're not lying around...they're locked in a safe with restricted access. This has nothing to do with gun laws, but more to do with irresponsible adults leaving lethal weapons lying around.

Quoting CO777ER (Reply 22):
It's 11 mins. long, and will probably be the best 11 mins you will spend this evening.

Awesome video. An excellent demonstration of just how fast the appearance of a gun can be changed without affecting the function. Amazing.
אני תומך בישראל
 
pelican
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:52 pm



Quoting CARST (Reply 21):
Why do you ask the question? You know he is totally right.

B.S. It's far from being easy for a 17 year old to get (lawfully) a firearm in Germany. The fact is if someone is detemined to shoot somebody he'll find a way to get a gun no matter how easy or hard it is to obtain one -at least in a free society.

Quoting CARST (Reply 21):
In Erfurt the young guy was in a shooting club himself and in this case of today his parents were hunters and had 16 (!!!) weapons in there basement

What difference does the number make besides a flashy headline? He needed only one gun to murder 15 people.

Quoting CARST (Reply 21):
He just had to go to his parents bedroom, take the 9mm pistol

And here we are at the point were his parents didn't follow the laws for gun owners in Germany - the pistol should have been locked away. But laws can be broken...

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 23):
Why were those weapons so accessible? If they were locked in a safe, no way he would have gotten to them. We have guns at home, but they're not lying around...they're locked in a safe with restricted access. This has nothing to do with gun laws, but more to do with irresponsible adults leaving lethal weapons lying around.

Exactly.

pelican
 
FighterPilot
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:00 pm



Quoting Keesje (Reply 11):
AK-47 ?! Absolutely Nuts !

No AK-47 was used in either events.
And that picture is of an air-soft gun!  banghead 

Quoting CO777ER (Reply 22):
Educate yourself before you make false statements.

Thank you! Someone understands. This video should be a sticky, and everyone before they comment on a gun thread have to watch it!

Cal  airplane 
*Insert Sound Of GE90 Spooling Up Here*
 
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OA260
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:22 pm

Very tragic. News reports said that some students still had pens in their hands when they were found dead. Thats how quickly it all happened.

RIP.
 
haggis79
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:35 pm



Quoting AutoThrust (Reply 19):
On a german newschannel they reported he didn't pass the exams while most of its classmates did.

this reports have been falsified in the meantime.... yes, he had his exams last year, but he passed them (and apparently he passed them neither particularly well nor particularly bad).
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Derico
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:42 am

Voice command or Fingerprint recognizing guns.... Since banning them will never work (just like drugs), and just arming everyone is suicidal, just develop weapons that will only fire under the voice command of the user, or the fingerprint.

I'm sure this tech could be developed.

THe problem is the world doesn't give a darn about anything anymore, let's just keep seeing kids dying left and right, and it's deffinately no more a USA only problem. It's been happening all over the northern hemisphere of late (North America including Canada, Europe, Japan... more stabbings than shootings there).
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
co777er
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:58 pm



Quoting Derico (Reply 28):

Banning them only keeps the honest man from purchasing one.
 checkmark 



What if you outlawed guns? What would you do when a robber breaks into your house (with a gun) and threatens your wife and kids?
 
haggis79
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:37 pm



Quoting CO777ER (Reply 29):

What if you outlawed guns? What would you do when a robber breaks into your house (with a gun) and threatens your wife and kids?

well, in the US there are so many (legal and illegal) guns around that banning them would probably indeed have the effect you describe.

In contrast, in Germany, a country which has had stricter gun control for a long time now, the robber breaking into your house will most likely just not have a gun... I know that it is of course possible for people to get a gun illegally in Germany, too... but fact of the matter is that we have a lot less cases of armed robbery over here and instead probably more cases of unarmed burglars breaking into houses when the tenants are away...
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TheSonntag
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:02 pm



Quoting CO777ER (Reply 29):

What if you outlawed guns? What would you do when a robber breaks into your house (with a gun) and threatens your wife and kids?

While I agree that this would be a likely scenario in the US, this never (so unlikely no one even remotely considers that to be a threat) really happens.
 
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LTU932
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:39 pm

I just hope this won't lead to a policy, where Schools invest more in metal detectors than in textbooks. We can't fall into paranoia everytime there's a school shooting.

Sure, we need to increase security as a result of this, but not at the expense of common sense.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:32 pm



Quoting CARST (Reply 21):
Quoting Pelican (Reply 18):
How do you draw that conclusion?

Why do you ask the question? You know he is totally right. We Germans talk to much how wrong it is that in America everyone can have a weapon, but every 2 years we have our own amok mass murders in schools and the people always had legal weapons.

In Erfurt the young guy was in a shooting club himself and in this case of today his parents were hunters and had 16 (!!!) weapons in there basement and 1 (the pistol he used) in their bedroom.

He just had to go to his parents bedroom, take the 9mm pistol, take about 200 pieces of ammunition and was ready for his crazy mass murder plans...

Btw CNN has it all as their headline: http://edition.cnn.com/

Link to a detailed story: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/eu....html

Wrong. The boy had the gun totally illegally. The guns were owned by the father who had a gun permit. This means that he was supposed to be the only one to have access to them (in Germany handguns have to be locked into a "class B2" doublewalled safe, with the ammunition locked away seperately in another safe.
The father f*cked up and broke the law by allowing his son (who didn't have a gun permit, you won't get one in Germany if you are below 18 years old and fullfill several other requirements, including a psychological assessment if you are younger than IIRC 25 years old).

In nearly all massacres (one exeption) we had in Germany during the last 15 years, the teenage killers gained access to their father's guns because the father didn't lock them away properly (possibly considering his family members not to be a threat, unlike e.g. a burglar, but the German weapons act is very clear about how firearms have to be locked away and who is allowed to handle them under which conditions). In one case the killer broke into his father's gun safe using tools.
The one exemption is the killer of Erfurt, who was already above 18 and as member of a small calibre (.22) shooting club taking part in contests had a licence for small calibre pistols. Due to a mistake by the relevant authority and the club management he managed to get a pump action shotgun and several large calibre pistols added to his licence (normallyas a target shooter you only get those types of guns entered into the licence you are actually using for the club's sports discipline. E.g. if you are are shooting clay pidgeons in your club, all you'll get are shotguns suited for this sport. If you shoot olympic .22 pistol you'll get only a permit for this type of weapon.

BTW, as a target shooter or hunter you'll have to prove that you are using your privileges. From what my boss told me (a hunter), he has to extend his hunting licence everyyear or else the police will confiscate his guns. The same applies to target shooters. They need a certificate from their club everyyear to extend their licence, stating that they regularly attended training and contests.

BTW, in the rural region I live in, almost every farmer has a hunting rifle or a shotgun. Many people here are members of target shooting clubs.

What suprises me is that the boy's parents had 16 weapons. Normaly a hunter is allowed to have up to 5 longarms and two handguns. A target shooter can get a maximum of 5 guns for his discipline. Even if the mother had a licence as well, they should have had at maximum 14 guns (the types where a permit is requires. Single shot muzzleloading black powder guns are free in Germany if you are older than 18, but you'll need a licence to buy black powder or percussion caps)

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
fatmirjusufi
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabam

Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:59 pm

Too bad. One of these victims was from Kosovo.  worried 

Police estimated the age of those who had died at 14 to 16. Eight died immediately and another died later from injuries. One of the dead students was believed to be from Kosovo.
http://www.welt.de/english-news/arti...females-during-shooting-spree.html

RIP all victims.

Fatmir
DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
 
haggis79
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:36 pm



Quoting FatmirJusufi (Reply 34):
Too bad. One of these victims was from Kosovo.

and how does that mak the whole tragic story any different?
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fatmirjusufi
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabam

Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:46 am



Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 35):
and how does that mak the whole tragic story any different?

Maybe you misunderstood me but I didn't meant that way as you claimed!

Fatmir
DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
 
keesje
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:24 am



Quoting CO777ER (Reply 22):

Do you know what an assault rifle is? I bet not. Educate yourself before you make false statements.

Study assualty rifles ?! Hell no ! I have the vague impression many of the school killers of recent yrs were lone young guys who studied / exercised / loved guns. maybe we should monitor them.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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jetmech
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:00 am



Quoting CO777ER (Reply 29):
Banning them only keeps the honest man from purchasing one.

I 'm not having a go at you personally, but it is this cornerstone argument from the pro-gun side that never makes sense.

I often hear from the pro-gun side that the problem would be solved "if" only somehow, the guns could be removed from those holding them illegally. The problem is - as in the case of the tragedy in Germany - that almost exclusively, firearms make their initial entry into the community via an entirely legal process.

Tragedies such as these often involve firearms that up to that point in time have an entirely legal status. Unfortunately, the only practical and effective solution to the problem is to stop making so many firearms in the first place. I don't see this happening anytime soon, nor do I see "legal" firearm owners giving up their right to ownership, thus, as it stands, we will probably see massacres on a regular basis.

At the end of the day, the legality or otherwise of a firearm makes little difference, it's the sheer number of them in the community that causes the problem.

Regards, JetMech
JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair :shock: .
 
pwm2txlhopper
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:27 am



Quoting PilotNTrng (Reply 15):
I am sorry if I offend some that are avid "hunters", but what beast of an animal that lives in the US that requires an M-16 or an AK-47???

Apparently you don't know much about firearms, because the 7.62mm x 39 caliber bullet that the AK-47 uses is much less powerful than the majority of the calibers used for hunting animals such as deer and larger game. It's comparable to a 30-30 caliber bullet, which is far from being anti-aircraft artillery.

Furthermore, AK-47's aren't legal unless you have a federal permit to own one. The "AK-47's" most people have in the USA, myself included, are semi-automatic clones of the true fully automatic military variants. They are no different than your average semi-automatic hunting rifle apart from their military looking appearance which is what scares a lot of people and turns them off. The only thing different about them is that they have higher capacity magazines, but anybody with the right machinery and know how could take any semi-automatic hunting rifle and produce a high capacity magazine for it.

I get a huge kick out of people that want to band so called "assault rifles" when they're no different than hunting rifles accept for their cosmetic appearance! Especially, when people assume the AK-47 and M-16 variants of civilian rifles are some kind of super high power killing machine. The M-16 or AR-15 civilian semi-auto version use .233 caliber ammo which is even less powerful than the 7.62mm. In fact, it's fair to say most deer hunters wouldn't even use such a small, under powered caliber to humanely take down an animal.

It's really fun scaring the anti-gun types that don't have a clue, though! That's why I have three so called "AK-47's" even though the manual from the manufacturer states it a WASR Sporting rifle model. Not an AK-47. That would be a fully automatic rifle with mandatory prison time for anybody owning one without a federal license.
 
na
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:48 am



Quoting CO777ER (Reply 29):


Quoting Derico (Reply 28):

Banning them only keeps the honest man from purchasing one.
  

A pipe dream. Like the stupid hypocritical slogan of the NRA "Its people which kill, not guns".
Most young amok killers are the children of honest men.
The father of the 17 year old German boy had 15 guns and thousands of ammunition at home, most of it locked up. I ask what for?
Shooting club members should be forced to store their weapons, if they have more than one, on the grounds of the club. Likewise if they have more than 20 pieces of ammunition. More is not needed for self protection, if you really think you need such. More than 99% of Germans wont need a gun for self protection.
If you cant get hold of a gun easily, this type of shooting wont happen. Its as easy as that.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 32):
I just hope this won't lead to a policy, where Schools invest more in metal detectors than in textbooks.

I fully agree. This hasty "trouble shooting" of politicians is just stupid. You cant totally prevent such cases. Never.

Quoting JetMech (Reply 38):
At the end of the day, the legality or otherwise of a firearm makes little difference, it's the sheer number of them in the community that causes the problem.

Exactly.
Its just the influential lobby of the gun industry and the hypocritical NRA and its equally influential members who are against it which are strong enought to rule the media in the US which blind the public from seeing it.
 
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jetmech
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:33 am



Quoting Na (Reply 40):
"Its people which kill, not guns".

It's a silly slogan on so many levels. Guns don't kill people of course, but they make it a hell of a lot easier, which is why we often see them used in warfare. And where exactly does this slogan leave us?

Obviously, it is sacrilege for the NRA to consider any restriction on firearms, thus, their often quoted slogan only leaves one other alternative. If we want to reduce the incidence of massacres according to the NRA, we must ban or restrict people.

Obviously, this is the most silly thing of all, so all their slogan really means is that the NRA are prepared to accept massacres as acceptable collateral damage so they can have their guns. It doesn't really get more selfish than that, especially considering many massacre victims are probably not NRA members.

Regards JetMech
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pwm2txlhopper
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:58 am



Quoting JetMech (Reply 41):
It's a silly slogan on so many levels. Guns don't kill people of course, but they make it a hell of a lot easier, which is why we often see them used in warfare

It's also extremely easy to kill somebody with a knife, axe, or other blunt everyday tool or object. Pick up knife, thrust into heart or head, slice an artery, tie a plastic bag over their head, blow up their car, kill them by overdose or decapitate them in some other gruesome manner? If somebody's intent to kill, chances are they already feel no remorse and there's no reasoning? No feeling to hold them back. And probably adrenaline involved? At that point, it's not any harder for them to thrust a knife into you than it is to pull a trigger, as far as I'm concerned! So, I'd dispute the claim that guns make it easier to kill. Killing is very easy for anybody that has the emotions or desire to do it.
 
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jetmech
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:25 am

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 42):

Respectfully, I disagree. A knife is a very limited instrument in the grand scheme of things. You certainly could not "hide in the bushes" and pick people off from a distance with a knife. I also think it would be much, much harder to roam the halls of an educational institution and cause anywhere near the number of fatalities that we have seen in recent tragedies.

I do agree that it is exceedingly easy to kill "a" person, but a massacre needs something far more potent than a knife or axe.

Regards, JetMech

[Edited 2009-03-16 22:29:33]
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pilotntrng
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:21 am



Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 39):

If people were half way responsible and took care of thier weapons and they didn't end up in the hands of evil people then I wouldn't have a problem with them, Oh and I do know a thing or two about the AK-47, such as, it's as easy to turn it from sem-auto to fully-auto as a flick of a damn switch.

Ok Mr. NRA spokesman, tell me how the hell convicted felons get thier weapons? Stealing them? Yes majority are stolen , which leads me to think that you proud gun owners and shop owners are fairly wreckless with the safe keeping of weapons.

Do they buy them? I am sure some do. Thumbs up to the numbnuts that are supposed to do the background check.


Americans are too stupid to own guns. How about the 8 year old boy that shot his head off with an UZI? Friggin morons.
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columba
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:43 am



Quoting PilotNTrng (Reply 44):
Americans are too stupid to own guns. How about the 8 year old boy that shot his head off with an UZI? Friggin morons.

Stupid people are everywhere....the fact that you have more gun related accidents in the US then elsewhere has to that they are more guns there. If you would have similar conditions in other countries accidents like this could happen everywhere.

P.S.
I am in favor for stricter gun laws in the US, while I see the need of people wanting to protect their homes especially in rural areas, or the need of hunting rifles etc...I do not see why a private person would need an UZI, MP5, M16 etc.....these kind of weapons should only be in the hands of soldiers, police officers etc....
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JJJ
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RE: 9 Dead In German School Shooting, 10 In Alabama!

Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:26 pm

I'd like to see NRA reactions to weapon capacity limitations like the ones we have here.

If you have a hunting license for a semi-auto long weapon (either rifle or shotgun) there are two options. Those with external (removable) magazines have a maximum capacity of TWO cartridges. Those with an internal magazine will have a maximum of 5. Any weapon with a higher magazine capacity is either an illegal import or has been tampered which means being charged with illegal possession of firearms.

Pump-actions or otherwise manual-operated don't have any magazine limit.

On a self-defence license (handguns only) there's no magazine limit.

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