ajd1992
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Is This Legal? (UK Consumer Law)

Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:22 am

Evening...

Righty, in Dec. 2007 I bought a Nokia N73, which worked in its promised entirety for about 2 months, before the slider over the camera broke, so I couldn't use the camera, but no big deal, I just left it. I'm not a big camera user anyway. About 6 months later, it started just turning off randomly, so I gave my provider (Virgin Mobile) a call after it was doing it literally 5 or 6 times an hour and told them what had happened, and they replaced the phone, no questions asked as apparently according to them the camera issue had happened to more than a few people (At the time of the call, It was the day the warranty ended so I got it just in time!) I had a new phone by the end of the week (This was the 20th of Dec '08).

My replacement phone worked up until the start of this week (Sunday night-ish), the joystick on it just stopped working. It hadn't been dropped, sat on etc or anything. I could move it around and move the selector on the screen, I just couldn't select anything unless I really pushed the joystick in. It'd also started doing the whole "Random turning off" trick again.

Today, I asked my dad to give them a call (my account is technically under his name so it's just easier for him to deal with it, saves passing the phone back and to), he spoke to the Virgin Mobile call centre out in India, explaining the problem, how old the phone was and all the needed info. They couldn't get hold of the finance dept. to see if they would replace my phone at that time so they said they'd call my dad back, and sure enough, about an hour later, they did.

They said that they would not replace my phone, because it was a replacement, it's still technically the same phone I paid for back in '07 (and I had it replaced at the very end of the warranty period), and because I didn't physically pay for the replacement phone, It didn't have a warranty and therefore wasn't eligible for a replacement. They said because money wasn't traded for the phone, I didn't pay for a warranty so I wasn't covered for faults in any way. Just to add, Nokia include a 24 month guaranteed replacement with their phones if they can't fix it. They left my dad on hold for 20 minutes in a hope he'd hang up and leave them alone as well, which is somewhat shoddy service considering we've been with them since 1995 for phone, TV, 8 mobiles and internet service...

Is this legal, or are they correct? I'd think even if it was a replacement it'd have a guarantee.
 
gordonsmall
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RE: Is This Legal? (UK Consumer Law)

Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:32 am



Quoting Ajd1992 (Thread starter):
Is this legal, or are they correct? I'd think even if it was a replacement it'd have a guarantee.

Generally, in the UK, any product provided under guarantee will only be covered until the end of the 'original' guarantee.

So therefore technically your 'new' phone was out of warranty before you even recieved it.
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ajd1992
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RE: Is This Legal? (UK Consumer Law)

Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:39 am



Quoting Gordonsmall (Reply 1):

Generally, in the UK, any product provided under guarantee will only be covered until the end of the 'original' guarantee.

So therefore technically your 'new' phone was out of warranty before you even recieved it.

I didn't know that.

Wouldn't they have to honour the 24 month Nokia one though? Considering they're a authorised reseller for them, and have been for years. I don't know of any other way to get the phone repaired other than through Virgin.
 
Cadet57
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RE: Is This Legal? (UK Consumer Law)

Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:43 am



Quoting Gordonsmall (Reply 1):
So therefore technically your 'new' phone was out of warranty before you even recieved it.

Funny. I went thru 4 of the same phone before I gave up and bought one out of contract, and according to Verizon each phone they replaced carried its own warranty thus I was covered. Im not sure if thats law, or just something verizon does. But interesting that Virgin wont even cut you some sort of slack. Sounds like you got stuck with a crap model. Id personally call back and try and get a supervisor.
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RussianJet
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RE: Is This Legal? (UK Consumer Law)

Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:49 am

The N73 sucks. When I had one a couple of years back, after two phones (the original and its replacement) kept developing stupid habits including constant freezing and uncommanded restarts, I insisted on a different model from Orange, my provider. They were initially resistant, trying to maintain that I had to have the same model. However, several other people I knew had problems with the model, and Orange admitted to me that it was generally problematic. I insisted and insisted and eventually they caved in and I have had Sony Ericssons every since and been very happy with them.
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ajd1992
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RE: Is This Legal? (UK Consumer Law)

Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:50 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 3):
But interesting that Virgin wont even cut you some sort of slack. Sounds like you got stuck with a crap model. Id personally call back and try and get a supervisor.

This guy WAS a supervisor....! Looks like I'm stuck with having to buy a new phone either way, but just to make sure I'm going to give them a call back tomorrow at a different time so I get a different shift and hopefully somebody else less rude than the previous supervisor (not the fact he wouldn't replace it, the fact he was being an ass on the phone about it).

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 4):

Last time I tried to insist on a different model, they refused as well. I even offered to take a downgrade because I hated it that much, but nope, they sent me the same god awful shitty phone  Wink

[Edited 2009-03-12 18:52:51]
 
Cadet57
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RE: Is This Legal? (UK Consumer Law)

Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:54 am



Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 5):

Idk if they have any non-india call centers, but id ask to transfer to one. I've found the non indian ones to be MUCH more helpful. Such as when my Pay Pal account was compromised, the indian "support" agent was concerned that all my cards were removed right before I called until I spent 5 minutes explaining how I canceled them. The next day I called back, got someone in the US and the help was like night and day.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Is This Legal? (UK Consumer Law)

Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:07 am

Sounds like you should sit out the rest of the contract, tell them to get lost, go with somebody else and get a much better phone.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
ajd1992
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RE: Is This Legal? (UK Consumer Law)

Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:10 am



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 7):
Sounds like you should sit out the rest of the contract, tell them to get lost, go with somebody else and get a much better phone.

It's not a contract, it's pay as you go on direct debit, so it's basically a contract that can be ended at any time.

But either way, I shall be changing operators, and to spite them, I'll take my number too!

 Silly
 
RussianJet
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RE: Is This Legal? (UK Consumer Law)

Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:13 am



Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 8):
It's not a contract, it's pay as you go on direct debit, so it's basically a contract that can be ended at any time.

But either way, I shall be changing operators

Do it and get a cheap contract with a much better phone.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
sean377
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RE: Is This Legal? (UK Consumer Law)

Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:05 am

Quoting Ajd1992 (Thread starter):
so I gave my provider (Virgin

Virgin must be looking to shed some customers right now. I had a query with my Virgin credit card last week. I'm not a "picky" customer, but after the conversation I had with one of their "supervisors" over it, I told her in the nicest of manners, if it couldn't be resolved, I would be happy to settle the account and close it, to which the reply was basically "ok". So I did.

And my cousin has had similar experiences with Virgin TV.

Incidentally, for those in the UK that don't already know of it, look up an alternative telephone to those 084x and 087x numbers where you have to pick up the bill at the following site. For most UK companies, you'll find either a 0800 or 01 number that are mostly free on todays calling plans.

http://www.saynoto0870.com/

(There's loads of alternative numbers for Virgin Mobile).

[Edited 2009-03-12 23:10:07]
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nighthawk
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RE: Is This Legal? (UK Consumer Law)

Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:28 am



Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 8):
But either way, I shall be changing operators, and to spite them, I'll take my number too!

Your phone number does not belong to you, it belongs to the operator, and therefore it is up to them whether they transfer the number or not. They more than likely will, because numbers dont actually transfer, but instead forward, and the issuing company recieves a portion of the call charge. So if your number was issued by Virgin, and you transfer it to O2, virgin will still recieve a fee every time you recieve a call. So if you want to 'spite them', you want to take out a new number.

Quoting Sean377 (Reply 10):
Incidentally, for those in the UK that don't already know of it, look up an alternative telephone to those 084x and 087x numbers where you have to pick up the bill at the following site. For most UK companies, you'll find either a 0800 or 01 number that are mostly free on todays calling plans.

http://www.saynoto0870.com/

And for those in the UK that dont already know it....... 084x and 087x numbers are FREE through BT, so its pointless even looking at that site  Silly
 
gordonsmall
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RE: Is This Legal? (UK Consumer Law)

Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:53 am



Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 11):
Your phone number does not belong to you, it belongs to the operator,

Actually, under UK legislation the government has the rights to all UK mobile numbers, and these are managed via Ofcom.

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 11):
And for those in the UK that dont already know it....... 084x and 087x numbers are FREE through BT, so its pointless even looking at that site

Only via BT landlines and BT Business mobile contracts. Most mobile operators still charge for 084X and 087X at standard netowrk rates.
Statistically, people who have had the most birthdays tend to live the longest.
 
sean377
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 1:18 am

RE: Is This Legal? (UK Consumer Law)

Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:53 am



Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 11):
And for those in the UK that dont already know it....... 084x and 087x numbers are FREE through BT, so its pointless even looking at that site



Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 4):
Kinda pointless now that calls to 0870/0845 are free on BT

Have you got shares in BT???  Wink
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Arniepie
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RE: Is This Legal? (UK Consumer Law)

Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:27 am

Normally you are ultimately covered under EU law which clearly stipulates that all electrical appliances (like your cell-phone) has an automatic 2 year warranty on it no matter what the contract says.
The only exception is when the phone is bought by a company and not a private person, in that case the contract determines the warranty.


Also, keep in mind they may give you another phone which is basically a repaired model that belonged to somebody else before.
[edit post]
 
IH8BY
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RE: Is This Legal? (UK Consumer Law)

Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:34 am



Quoting Gordonsmall (Reply 12):
Most mobile operators still charge for 084X and 087X at standard netowrk rates.

Don't they also charge for 0800 numbers though? I know when I call an 0800 number from my T-Mobile phone I first get a warning that calls to that number will not be free.
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ltbewr
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RE: Is This Legal? (UK Consumer Law)

Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:15 pm

I find it very intesting that UK consumer law is very weak when compared to some other countries in the EC and especially as to the USA and Canada. But even here in the USA, there are serious flaws when it comes to mobile/cell phone services.
I will be switching to Virgin Mobile USA pay-as-you-go next week from AT&T monthly contract. Since I typicaly use my phone 60 mins. or less a month, I hope to save about half on my cell phone bill. I do see on the website for Virgin Mobile USA, they have message boards for each avaiable or recently available phone models where one can research if a phone is a problem one or not. They (and other companies here in the USA) offer some rebuilt/remanufactured models usually at savings but may have shorter warranties. They also offer 30 day trials of phones so one can exhchange the same model for no additional charge or get a different phone with the difference in price if you don't like it or realize you need a different one.
 
gordonsmall
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RE: Is This Legal? (UK Consumer Law)

Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:11 pm



Quoting IH8BY (Reply 15):
Don't they also charge for 0800 numbers though?

Indeed.
Statistically, people who have had the most birthdays tend to live the longest.

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