CanadianNorth
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Standard Date Format (rant)

Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:46 pm

D'day folks!

Was reading something earlier today and got to thinking, why do people feel the need to use multiple date formats that could be taken multiple ways? Even narrowing things down to aviation, there is supposedly a standard format, yet I see different ones almost daily!

The standard format in aviation is supposed to be, using today for an example, 28 MAR 2009, or something similar to that. Simple, easy to read, and most importantly impossible to take any other way. Yet almost daily I'll see 28 MAR 2009; 28 MAR 09; MAR 28, 2009; 28/03/09; 03/28/09; and others.

Not so bad this time of the month, but lets randomly take 09 JAN 2009 for an example...
-09 JAN 2009: there is absolutely no other way to take that.
-09 JAN 09: it could mean 09 JAN 2009, or 1809, or 1909, or 2109, and so on.
-9 JAN 2009: what's stopping someone from coming and putting a 1 or a 2 at the front to get you in trouble?
-09/01/09: depending on how you read it could be taken 09 JAN 09 or 01 SEP 09, quite a difference
-01/03/09: same as previous

/rant.

Sorry to sound picky, but lately it's been really "gripping my sh*t" when people at work don't use the proper date format. It's there for a reason, and makes life easier for everyone.
Thoughts/opinions/etc. are welcome.


CanadianNorth,
28 MAR 2009
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Brendan03
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:56 pm

I recently learnt how to use Sabre and the format I was taught made the most sense... 28MAR09 (The 09 being optional)

Other than that, I'm Australian so I generally tend to use DD/MM/YY - Seeing MM/DD/YY confuses me, especially if I'm putting it on the computer, I have to check how many 'values' are in each selection, otherwise I risk putting some non existant date in.

I can understand where you're coming from, Especially if it's in a ticketing office, Someone as you said could end up with a ticket for the 1st of September, Instead of the 9th of January and then you'll have heads rolling...

Standards are there for a reason...
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Birdwatching
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:06 pm

In my opinion the best way to write a date is 2009.03.28
I always do it when sorting files. Simply because it will always sort your data in the right order.

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fatmirjusufi
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:08 pm



Quoting Brendan03 (Reply 1):
Seeing MM/DD/YY confuses me

Yeah, it's true.
06/12/09 - it's 06 DEC 09 or 12 JUN 09. That's how these formats confuses me!

Fatmir
28 MAR 09
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nighthawk
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:11 pm

blame the bloody americans, they screwed it all up by using a different and confusing format  Silly

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 2):
In my opinion the best way to write a date is 2009.03.28
I always do it when sorting files. Simply because it will always sort your data in the right order.

You're still wrong, we should all just use the number of seconds elapsed since 1st Jan 1970. Far less confusing  Silly
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:35 pm



Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 2):
In my opinion the best way to write a date is 2009.03.28

I actually agree with that. That's how all the folders of photos on my computer are sorted, and it's very easy to find what I'm looking for.

However, being an American, I've used MM/DD/YY(YY) my whole life:

March 28, 2009
3/28/2009
3/28/09

But I'll be the first to admit that it makes much more sense to use DD/MM/YY(YY).

Oh well.
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Gemuser
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:08 am



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 5):
However, being an American, I've used MM/DD/YY(YY) my whole life:

And that's fine! It is people who use dates that are ambiguous in inappropriate places such as on the web, who annoy me. I never use all numerical dates on the web, because it confuses people. In email or purely domestic correspondence I will, because I know the recipient uses the same format, if in doubt use the months name.

While people using June 1 is annoying, that's my problem, because it is clear what the actual date is, but using 6/1 is just so ambiguous!

And don't get me started on the habit some people have of using seasons as dates! Such as it is due next winter! When is that? It depends on the originator location and their cultures conventions on when seasons start and finish! Things that people on the web often don't know.

Gemuser
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lincoln
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:21 am



Quoting Brendan03 (Reply 1):
DD/MM/YY - Seeing MM/DD/YY confuses me,

Funny, I'm the other way around -- every time I see a date in DD/MM/YY(YY) format I have to stop and actually think through the date (what is month number X?), where MM/DD/YY just kind of makes sense to me -- like trying to understand a foreign language versus your native language

That said, though, DD/MM/YYYY logically makes more sense to me (in elements listed in order of magnitude), as does YYYY/MM/DD.

The format that I personally use most of the time is either DDMMM or more frequently DDMMMYY(YY) (e.g. 02MAR, 12MAR09 or 22MAR2009) as it eliminates the 'which is the date/which is the month' dielemma when you're talking to people from a country/region that uses a different format
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MarSciGuy
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:47 am



Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 4):
Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 2):
In my opinion the best way to write a date is 2009.03.28
I always do it when sorting files. Simply because it will always sort your data in the right order.

You're still wrong, we should all just use the number of seconds elapsed since 1st Jan 1970. Far less confusing Silly

You could always do what we in the survey world do....use Julian day instead of MM and DD, so (at least in the office) we go by JD 001 - > JD365 for Dec 31st.
"There weren't a ton of gnats there where a ton of gnats and their families as well!"
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:21 am



Quoting Lincoln (Reply 7):
as it eliminates the 'which is the date/which is the month' dielemma when you're talking to people from a country/region that uses a different format

That does make sense, although then you hit the problem of different languages.

Jan, feb, mar, apr, etc... are shortened from the english version of the words. Latin languages have similar words for the months so it's still understandable, but in many other languages those contractions won't make sense to the non english speakers.

It's a tough one I guess. No easy way to do it unless one single standard writing form is picked out.
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andz
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:33 am

Kill two birds with one stone: Change the US to the dd/mm/yyyy standard and the metric system at the same time!
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:28 am



Quoting Andz (Reply 10):

But the customary system just makes so much more sense!  Wink

12 inches = 1 foot. How easy is that?!?!?

5,280 feet = 1 mile Again, it's just so simple.  Wink

None of this confusing 100 cm = 1 m, or 1000 m = 1 km. It's so difficult!

 biggrin 

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nighthawk
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:31 am



Quoting MarSciGuy (Reply 8):
You could always do what we in the survey world do....use Julian day instead of MM and DD, so (at least in the office) we go by JD 001 - > JD365 for Dec 31st.

how does that work in leap years though?
 
WESTERN737800
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:06 pm

I go with 3-28-09 if Im in a hurry or working with people who I know very well. Or 28MAR2009 if I want to not have any confusion
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dragon6172
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:29 pm

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 12):
how does that work in leap years though?

In leap years every day after Feb 29th is one higher than usual. I use the Julian date all the time, but we have a chart that shows what julian date it is. I always refer to it as the "funny date".
To me it should always be YYMMDD. Thats how you would file things, by year, by month, then by day. I rarely write it that way though, because people would get confused.

[Edited 2009-03-29 06:30:15]
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OzTech
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:58 pm



Quoting Andz (Reply 10):
Kill two birds with one stone: Change the US to the dd/mm/yyyy standard and the metric system at the same time!

Yaeh -- That's gonna happen right -- The Seppos think they are "the world" and we should all change to thier ways....  banghead 

Just look at how their smart fiscal policy and world saviour act has screwed all of us....  cry   cry   crying   crying 
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akiss20
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:11 pm



Quoting OzTech (Reply 15):
Quoting Andz (Reply 10):
Kill two birds with one stone: Change the US to the dd/mm/yyyy standard and the metric system at the same time!

Yaeh -- That's gonna happen right -- The Seppos think they are "the world" and we should all change to thier ways.... banghead

Ugh I know!!! I wish the US had just switched to Metric back in the 80s and have been done with it. As a science/engineering major to be, all these imperial units are freaking irritating. Whenever I see foot-pounds for torque, I die a little inside. Not to mentions some of the crazy ass units of like foot slugs per second^2 or what not.

Metric is so much simpler, why oh why America couldn't we have switched?
Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:13 pm

The "natural" format in the Japanese and Chinese languages is YEAR MONTH DAY

But thanks to our meddling, Japanese kids have been learning the American system too for years - who knows what's correct anymore! I grew up with the American one but I really don't find all this confusing - just know what the other party is asking for and it's usually fine.
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exFATboy
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:48 pm



Quoting OzTech (Reply 15):
The Seppos think they are "the world" and we should all change to thier ways....

Well, since we developed the modern computer, when it comes to data imput formats perhaps the world should switch to our way!  Silly

Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 16):
Metric is so much simpler, why oh why America couldn't we have switched?

Because just to change the signs on the Interstate system would cost half a billion dollars? We've converted where it suits us or where it makes our exports more competitive, or where something just happened to come along at the right time (the two-liter bottle.) Other than that there's no real need to change, at least not all at once.

I'd also point out that the UK still uses Imperial for distances and speeds on the road, and woe betide the British politician who tries to take away the pint glass...tradition is a powerful force.
 
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akiss20
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:13 pm



Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 18):
Because just to change the signs on the Interstate system would cost half a billion dollars?

Just take the $500 million in savings from the 3 or 4 odd space craft that have crashed/been destroyed from errors in conversion from metric to imperial and vice a versa. We all remember that mars lander that slammed into the face of the planet because one guy did calculations in metres while the other guy programmed it in feet?
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MillwallSean
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:35 am

Normally I want to keep the world different and not feel the same wherever I go but when it comes to measurements, dates and such things one standard makes so much sense.

Metric is obviously the world standard and its slowly taking over even in the anglosaxon world.
Thats good, imperial measurements might be cute, but they are from another era and its time to retire them for good.
But retiring imperial measurements doesnt mean they need to be wiped out from the earth like the British government seems to reckon.
A pint can be a pint even if Britain uses the metric system. I have bought pints all over Europe and no other country seems to advocate a compete abolishment of imperial measurements like the government in Britain does.

What countries are still using imperial measurements?
I know that he US and North Korea does, any other country?

When it comes to dates: day, month, year makes sense.
I grew up with year, month, day but that makes less sense.

Regarding Asia:
In China I have never come across anyone using Month, Day, Year. Everyone I have worked with uses Day, month, year and it must be the local standard.
I am surprised to learn that Japan isnt the same.
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Zkpilot
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:38 am

Yes the American way is frustrating and doesn't make any sense (middle size digits, small digits, large digits). Also pllllllease change to metric....the entire world has except America... but even your military has changed to metric!
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N328KF
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:14 am



Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 2):
In my opinion the best way to write a date is 2009.03.28

Furthermore, this is actually an ISO standard. Every system I use regularly has their date format set this way.
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signol
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:39 am



Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 20):
What countries are still using imperial measurements?

I think Myanmar uses the imperial system.

As for date format, either DD/MM/YY or YY/MM/DD would be acceptable - as the flow is from smallest to largest time frame, or vice versa...

signol
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OzTech
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:59 pm



Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 18):
Well, since we developed the modern computer, when it comes to data imput formats perhaps the world should switch to our way!

Touche my friend... Big grin

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 18):
I'd also point out that the UK still uses Imperial for distances and speeds on the road, and woe betide the British politician who tries to take away the pint glass...tradition is a powerful force.

Totally agree there.. I hate going into pubs and getting a metric pint.. Tried arguing the point here in Oz but it like  banghead   banghead 
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N328KF
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:35 pm



Quoting OzTech (Reply 24):
Totally agree there.. I hate going into pubs and getting a metric pint.. Tried arguing the point here in Oz but it like

I dunno, the MacKenzie brothers have successfully demonstrated the benefits of the metric system with regard to beer.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
LH423
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:41 pm

Here in Canada, the official Canadian government format is YYYY-MM-DD since we have the English Canadians who customarily use MM/DD/YYYY and the French Canadians who use DD/MM/YYYY. So I guess to not be seen as favouring one side over the other or to make sure everyone is equally confused, they use the ISO standard.

LH423
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andz
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:15 pm



Quoting Signol (Reply 23):
the flow is from smallest to largest time frame, or vice versa...

Um.... anyone else fail to see the logic in this statement?
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
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akiss20
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:34 pm



Quoting Andz (Reply 27):
Quoting Signol (Reply 23):
the flow is from smallest to largest time frame, or vice versa...

Um.... anyone else fail to see the logic in this statement?

Uh no? With DD/MM/YY(YY) you are going smallest time frame to largest. Day is shorter than a month which is shorter than a year. With YY(YY)/MM/DD you are going largest time frame to smallest. Year is longer than a month which is longer than a day.

Makes perfect sense to me...
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MarSciGuy
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:46 pm



Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 12):

Quoting MarSciGuy (Reply 8):
You could always do what we in the survey world do....use Julian day instead of MM and DD, so (at least in the office) we go by JD 001 - > JD365 for Dec 31st.

how does that work in leap years though?

JD 59 in both leap and non-leap is Feb. 28th, Feb 29th would be 60 and Dec 31st in a leap year would be 366.

---When I am at sea for 3 solid weeks (24x7) by the end of the second week I have completely forgotten what day of the week, date and depending on what part of the month it is, month as well...All of the documentation we keep up in the office that is generated through reviewing data is signed off on with or initials and the JD that it was completed on, makes it real easy to know how long ago something was finished. - And yes, we have JD to Month/Day conversion charts up all over the place.

Quoting Signol (Reply 23):
Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 20):
What countries are still using imperial measurements?

I think Myanmar uses the imperial system.

...Now that is NOT a country that it is good to be associated with!
"There weren't a ton of gnats there where a ton of gnats and their families as well!"
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:52 am

I really can't say I have a preferred style even though I find myself using multiple styles:

30 MAR 2009 for the military paperwork/coorespondence I work with, 03/30/2009 for most of my informal personal stuff, and 2009-03-30 for sorting files on the computer.
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andz
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RE: Standard Date Format (rant)

Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:21 am



Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 28):

The whole point of this thread is standardisation. Having both defeats the object.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...

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