racko
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G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:23 pm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/07/ian-tomlinson-g20-death-video
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6059056.ece

Sickening video.

Once again the police has been caught lying about their own actions. Well, at least the UK has an independent commission to investigate police brutality, something we lack in Germany.
 
airtran737
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:31 pm

The probably told him to get out of the way and he ignored their commands. I don't think the video is sickening at all. It's not like the clubbed him to death. Who would think that shoving someone over would cause a heart attack? The officer didn't use excessive force, and he wasn't clubbing the man. It is just an unfortunate result to shoving someone.
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racko
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:27 pm

What commands? How does he obviously know he shouldn't have been there?

Do you know something we don't? If they suspected that he posed any kind of threat they would have arrested and searched him. They didn't. They just assaulted him.
 
DC10extender
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:09 pm



Quoting Racko (Reply 5):

As a person in law enforcement, I must say you have no idea what you are talking about. He was being given commands to move by the line of officers, he intentionally stood in front of them without moving, his hands were in his pockets and they had no idea what he could pull out, and somehow, everyone else got the message that they weren't supposed to be there.
Did you ever read on your birth certificate that life is fair? Thats cause its not there.
 
metroliner
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:10 pm



Quoting DC10extender (Reply 6):
and somehow, everyone else got the message that they weren't supposed to be there.

I get it. The 'small, scared little men with big guns principle' strikes again. No offence, but I've experience of working in riot control with a major security company in the UK, and this is beyond reasonable.

It's still innocent until proven guilty. And, at least in the UK, the cops aren't meant to act first and then consider the consequences.
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EZEIZA
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:18 pm

I'm not a big fan of the police, neither do I like these anti globalization nuts (the violent ones). Having said that, from the video, the guy did not die because of the police. The "extreme force" used was a push and the guy falling on the floor, where he then is perfectly fine to keep on talking to the cops. Sorry but this time I think there's nothing wrong with the police actions (again, from what we see in the video).

If you want to see a guy dying from excessive use of force look at the following video (at 0:53). That's brutal (warning: could be disturbing)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDtPugcUNb4


rgds
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
OHLHD
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:41 pm



Quoting Racko (Thread starter):
Once again the police has been caught lying about their own actions. Well, at least the UK has an independent commission to investigate police brutality, something we lack in Germany.

Well, not to jump into defense of the police but look how this guy is walking. Just like any other stupid protester. They surely tell him to move on but he doesn´t.

If he sells newspaper he should know where the protests are.

Why don´t you tell us why he died? The real reason is NOT the attack by the police BUT a heart attack. You ask about a independent commission in Germany but you do not bother to tell the truth.... think about it!
 
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LTU932
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:51 pm

Protests are OK, riots are not. I'm not taking any sides here, but the problem in this case is that the police officer couldn't anticipate that the rioter he was trying to control would get a heart attack in the process.

Sure, all the lefties who are completely against organisations such as NATO, G8, G20, the police, the military, etc., would use this incident to bash the authorities once again, but let's not forget: The police officer is innocent until proven guilty. Let the investigation take its course and don't use incidents such as these for left wing propaganda.
 
flymia
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:03 pm

The police did nothing wrong. Police officers put their lives on the line every day. These guy was not listening to commands and he had his hands in his pockets. Who knows what he could have pulled out. Even a small piece of glass could have killed an officer. They had to get him out of the way. If verbal commands dont work what else could they have done?

And for all those police haters I just dont get you guys. Sure there is that small 1% of cops who are not great guys and sometimes corrupt etc.. But police officers save lives and put their lives on the line every day. No matter how much you hate them they always answer the call. I just do not get how people hate police so much? (at least in the US)
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Rj111
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:10 pm

Seems like a basic misunderstanding. It's sad that he died but i don't particularly see anything earth shattering in the video. The Police were probably very fired up that day.

If he hadn't have had a heart attack, none one would give a monkey's about this.
 
QANTAS077
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:43 am



Quoting RJ111 (Reply 9):
Seems like a basic misunderstanding. It's sad that he died but i don't particularly see anything earth shattering in the video.

not earth shattering video, but the lies told by police after certainly lend weight to a cover-up, when will police learn that gatherings like this are ALWAYS filmed!
 
DC10extender
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:30 am



Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 10):

And when will you learn that there is more than one side to the story?
Did you ever read on your birth certificate that life is fair? Thats cause its not there.
 
QANTAS077
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:11 am



Quoting DC10extender (Reply 11):
And when will you learn that there is more than one side to the story?

yeah..like a bloke minding his own business with his hands in his pockets and walking away, love to know what the police have to say about this, I am sure the rest of the world can't wait for their side of the story.

here's a tip for you sergeant, if there are 2 sides to the story then why have the police lied about their version?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/ap.../g20-ian-tomlinson-death-witnesses

Menezes take two.
 
DC10extender
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:13 pm



Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 12):

I fail to see when the police lied civilian. You really have no idea what it is like to do this job especially at a protest. I do. Also, I was attacked once by a man "walking away with his hands in his pockets". So if someone is acting in just the same way he was (not moving unless forced, hands in pockets, etc.), I now pay closer attention to that man. Why don't you open your mind a bit before making accusations.
Did you ever read on your birth certificate that life is fair? Thats cause its not there.
 
OHLHD
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:57 pm

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 12):
yeah..like a bloke minding his own business with his hands in his pockets and walking away, love to know what the police have to say about this, I am sure the rest of the world can't wait for their side of the story.
But that is a typical way of annoying the police! He gives the " I don´t give a damn" look to the policeman. Again I do not defend the police but he is also at fault.
Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 12):
here's a tip for you sergeant, if there are 2 sides to the story then why have the police lied about their version?
Good question but I assume that they just could not get all facts together that fast. Just think how many policemen where involved and a cop in such a stress situation can´t remember whom he pushed and not.
 
virgin744
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:13 pm

Personally, I think this man, sad as it is, died from heart disease or some other totally unrelated illness not attributed to getting pushed to the ground. It was his time to go.

Its sad to see anyone involved in a fracas die or be critically injured but no matter who you are I dont care what your backround is or how puffed up your chest is you do not attempt to walk into a riot zone and face anti-riot police expecting them to allow you through!

1. According to witnesses, he was drunk
2. If he wasn't drunk then he was stupid for attempting to get through a police cordon in an active riot zone.
3. Any law abiding person with common sense would NEVER EVER attempt to do what he did You walk away from it, find a safe way around it. In 30yrs of living in central London seeing every possible type of march/rally/protest/riot I have never gotten involved in them nor have I even accidentally strayed into them. If you do it, you do it intentionally with sound knowledge of what you are doing or out of stupidity or when you are not in control of your senses i.e drunk or drugged.

Basically having a weak heart and then doing what he did could well have created the circumstance ripe for a heart attack and I believe its not the Police's fault but his own.
 
EZEIZA
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:14 pm



Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 12):

yeah..like a bloke minding his own business with his hands in his pockets and walking away, love to know what the police have to say about this, I am sure the rest of the world can't wait for their side of the story.

Does it even matter? The guy got pushed by a police officer ... that's it. No guns, no weapons involved, no police dogs .. nothing. The goy got pushed, he falls, and then keeps talking to the policemen that are there. The heart attack just happened to take place moment after. In this case there is nothing. And again, I am not a fan of police at all.

rgds
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flymia
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:21 pm



Quoting DC10extender (Reply 13):
I fail to see when the police lied civilian. You really have no idea what it is like to do this job especially at a protest. I do. Also, I was attacked once by a man "walking away with his hands in his pockets". So if someone is acting in just the same way he was (not moving unless forced, hands in pockets, etc.), I now pay closer attention to that man. Why don't you open your mind a bit before making accusations.

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Exactly. And thank you for your service in Law Enforcement.
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QANTAS077
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:19 pm



Quoting DC10extender (Reply 13):
I fail to see when the police lied civilian.

then you've failed to read the article...not very good policing on your behalf.

allow me to point it out in BnW for you.

Quote:
An official police statement on the night of the protests made no mention of this contact between Mr Tomlinson and police. It said simply that police officers were called to Mr Tomlinson's aid in Cornhill, after his collapse, but were pelted with bottles by protesters, and had to move him to a place of safety.

quite clearly a misleading statement from the police.
 
NAV20
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:03 am



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 16):
The goy got pushed, he falls, and then keeps talking to the policemen that are there. The heart attack just happened to take place moment after. In this case there is nothing. And again, I am not a fan of police at all.

EZEIZA - and others - it's impossible to be absolutely sure, but the video appears to show the riot squad guy hitting the man with a baton from behind. He then pushes him, also from behind, with such force that the man's feet are actually in the air when he hits the ground. Again, one can't be sure, but my impression is that he did not have time to take his hands out of his pockets to break his fall - and it looks as if, as a result, he landed on his forehead.

We'll have to wait for the results of the post-mortem. I have no idea whether a heavy blow on the head could trigger a heart attack; nor indeed do any of us know for sure whether he had a 'heart attack' at all; so far that's only 'hearsay,' coming from the police......

I hold no particular brief for modern-style 'protesters' - I don't like their methods or their general approach - but my first impression of this incident is that there is a case to answer as to whether it constituted 'excessive force.' The guy did not appear to be at all aggressive - and even if the police felt that he was, there were at least 15 policemen following him - any two of them could safely have 'restrained' him instantly, with relative ease and without putting themselves at risk.

This follow-up video is also revealing. In particular, it appears that there is now a 'culture' among the Metropolitan Police, especially in the Riot Squad, of covering their faces with balaclavas AND removing their identification numbers. IMO that sort of thing should not be tolerated for one moment in a supposedly-disciplined force.

"The footage, shot by Nabeela Zahir, a 27-year-old freelance journalist from London, contains three important elements to note:

"• Police move quickly to push away those protesters and bystanders who were aiding Tomlinson, including a man on the phone to the ambulance service. The ambulance service wanted to be put in contact with the officer, who declined to take the call.

"• The reaction of protesters is important. After the demonstration, police accused them of impeding Tomlinson's treatment by subjecting the officers and medics to a hail of missiles. In the video, a missile is seen to be thrown but you can hear someone in the crowd saying: "There's someone hurt. Don't throw anything." This indicates something was thrown, but certainly there was no barrage of missiles on film, and nothing reached the police. A man is also seen, standing with his arms in the air, shouting: "There is someone hurt here. Back the fuck up."

"• The riot officers have concealed their faces. Pause at 56 seconds. There are four officers in shot. Three have their face masks pulled half-way up their faces."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/10/g20-assault-investigation
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
EZEIZA
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:38 am



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 19):
Again, one can't be sure, but my impression is that he did not have time to take his hands out of his pockets to break his fall - and it looks as if, as a result, he landed on his forehead

Actually my impression was thet he did in fact manage to get his hands out of his pockets (which doesn't guarantee that he managed to use them when hitting the ground).
However, when he falls he still manages to run around, sit up and talk to the police...didn't look too injured there.
We've all seen cases of police brutality and excessive use of force and this looks nothing like it, especially considering the overall situation that was going on at the time (it wasn't just some random person minding his own business on a random non-eventful day).
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
NAV20
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:40 pm



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 20):
However, when he falls he still manages to run around, sit up and talk to the police...didn't look too injured there.

There was a girl only a couple of weeks ago who fell over and banged her head on a 'nursery' ski slope. Got up, laughed it off, and went back to her hotel. She died the next day........

I'll wait for the post-mortem report...........
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
EZEIZA
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:12 pm



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 21):
There was a girl only a couple of weeks ago who fell over and banged her head on a 'nursery' ski slope. Got up, laughed it off, and went back to her hotel. She died the next day........

I'm not excluding that it might have "hepled", but there's no intention there. It's not like the police beat the crap out of this person (Rodney King style) or shot at him for no reason. They just pushed him, with no intention of provoking any damage. That is very clear from the video footage. In fact I believe the video will help the police' case.
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
NAV20
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:02 pm



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 22):
They just pushed him, with no intention of provoking any damage. That is very clear from the video footage. In fact I believe the video will help the police' case.

Not sure that this latest one will, EZEIZA:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...-Tomlinson-was-hit-with-baton.html

"The film shows the policeman who shoved Mr Tomlinson to the ground hitting him with a strong blow behind the knees in the seconds beforehand.

"That moment was missing from an amateur video shot on a mobile phone by a fund manager, obtained by guardian.co.uk, which pictured Mr Tomlinson being pushed down by the officer.

"The questions the police must answer - The new footage, from a broken Channel 4 News camera, clearly shows that Mr Tomlinson was walking away from police when he was struck by the baton and then pushed over.

"It also shows that the officer involved in the alleged attack immediately going to speak to what appears to be a more senior officer after the incident. Several other officers are seen standing around not helping Mr Tomlinson, who is pictured sitting - dazed and trying to recover himself - on the pavement."


There's an age-old London slang phrase - "Don't come the acid, mate....!" I feel instinctively that Mr. Tomlinson broke that unwritten law and (to descend into street slang again) 'cheeked the plods.'

Unfortunately for the police concerned, Britain abolished the death penalty for everything except high treason back in the 1960s. It certainly doesn't apply to just 'talking back' to a policeman.

I understand that the officer concerned has now been suspended from duty, pending charges.

Fair enough in my view...........as I said earlier, there appears to be 'a case to answer.'
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
DC10extender
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:26 am



Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 18):

How is that misleading? The way I see it, they didn't know about his initial contact with the police because
1. They deal with people like him all the time and never know who they are
2. The officers who assisted him likely weren't the ones seen in the video
3. When the video surfaced, the police would have realized their previous contact

So, I say again, how did the police lie? I don't understand why you feel it necessary to accuse cops unjustly and be a jackass to anyone who disagrees.
Did you ever read on your birth certificate that life is fair? Thats cause its not there.
 
NAV20
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:10 am

It appears that 'the plot thickens'...................

(Excerpts - link to full article below)

"Two days later Home Office pathologist Dr Freddy Patel concluded Tomlinson had died of a heart attack. He has previously been reprimanded by the GMC, after he released medical details about a man who died controversially in police custody.

"In a second case, which raised questions about Dr Patel's findings, police dropped a criminal investigation after the pathologist gave it as his opinion that the victim, a woman, had died of natural causes. A man who lived in the flat where the body was found went on to murder two other women and mutilate their bodies.

"The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) launched a criminal inquiry into Tomlinson's death after footage obtained by the Guardian showed he had been attacked from behind. Tomlinson had had his hands in his pockets and was walking away from police lines.

"Last night a second post mortem examination, initiated by Tomlinson's family and the IPCC, was being carried out by Dr Nat Cary.

------------------------------

"In a separate case in January 2002, Dr Patel found that Sally White, 38, died of a natural causes resulting from heart disease. Her body was found locked in a bedroom in the Camden flat of Anthony Hardy, a 52-year-old psychiatrically-disturbed alcoholic.

"White's death was treated as suspicious until Dr Patel detailed the cause of her death as a heart attack. Hardy went on to kill two women, Elizabeth Valad, 29, and Brigette MacClennan, 34, and place their body parts in bin bags."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/11/g20-pathologist-ian-tomlinson

As far as I know, ordering a second post-mortem is highly unusual?
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
NAV20
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:07 am

So much for Tomlinson having died from a heart attack:-

"The police officer caught on film attacking Ian Tomlinson during the G20 protests could face manslaughter charges after a second postmortem concluded that the newspaper vendor died from internal bleeding and not a heart attack.

"The dramatic new evidence, made public yesterday, provoked an immediate response from the victim's family, who said that they had been "badly misled" by police.

"It emerged last night that the Metropolitan police officer who had been suspended from duty has now been interviewed under caution on suspicion of manslaughter by investigators from the Independent Police Complaints Commission."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/18/g20-ian-tomlinson-death
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
lewis
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:16 am



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 22):
I'm not excluding that it might have "hepled", but there's no intention there. It's not like the police beat the crap out of this person (Rodney King style) or shot at him for no reason. They just pushed him, with no intention of provoking any damage. That is very clear from the video footage. In fact I believe the video will help the police' case.

Pushing is assault and according to the latest findings he died of internal bleeding....
 
NAV20
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:21 am



Quoting Lewis (Reply 27):
Pushing is assault

And it's pretty clear from the first video that a more accurate phrase than 'being pushed' woud be 'being flung to the ground.'

Yet another video has surfaced - this one (again from the Guardian) shows that Tomlinson's head did indeed hit the pavement.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/

The thing tha shocks me most is that there were more than a dozen policemen who were close to Tomlinson when he fell. They would have seen - and heard - his head hit the pavement, and known the posiible implivcations.

Yet none of them made any move to check him for injuries, they just stood still and watched, and then let him stagger away (to his death, as it turns out). Makes you wonder what sort of training the British police get nowadays.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
NAV20
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RE: G20 Death: Video Of Police Assault

Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:02 pm

I've said more than enough on this subject - apologies for 'going on.' But this latest photograph confirms that Tomlinson's head DID indeed hit the ground very hard.........as many of us reckoned in the first place........

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-...r_Being_Pushed_To_Ground_By_Police


"Witnesses have said they heard a noise as Mr Tomlinson struck the ground and the sound of an impact can be heard on the amateur film."

There's a huge attempted cover-up going on. But I expect that that copper will eventually get charged - with 'conduct endangering life,' or at the least GBH - if not actual manslaughter.

Which is as it should be - none of us is above the law..........

[Edited 2009-04-25 07:04:43]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci

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