JoeCanuck
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:51 am

...what are they?

I've been pondering what would happen if currently illegal drugs, not just grass, were legalized.

There would certainly be benefits; quality and supply could be regulated, as could prices. They could be taxed, much like booze, and that would create money for addiction treatment, if nothing else.

Billions of dollars would be saved in trying to continually fight the losing battles that have come with criminalization. The worst of crime would be almost instantly eliminated as street drug profits disappear.

Those are some of the benefits...what are the hazards?
What the...?
 
greasespot
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:19 am

Street crime would not disappear....How the hell do you think the street addicts would pay for their now legal drugs....People hooked on drugs are not normally employable....While there would be no Street dealing there would be the same B&E's and robberies to pay...in fact these may go up as people no longer have to hide their addictions..

Plus people who have drugs would be robbery targets and these drugs would then be sold to other users creating another kind of dealer.....


Note this is more applicable to chemical drugs....
GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
vikkyvik
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:21 am



Quoting JoeCanuck (Thread starter):

Those are some of the benefits...what are the hazards?

Well, there's the obvious: health hazards.

Some drugs are incredibly addictive, and don't exactly do any favors for your mental and physical health.

I generally support legalization of weed. Harder drugs, though? Much more difficult question.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
lowrider
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:21 am

Are we (or you) prepared as a society to shoulder the cost of highly addictive drugs that have little or no medical value, and many have detrimental health effects? Other than reducing enforcement costs, and a few additional tax dollars, what benefit would it have?

Take alcohol, for example. What is the total cost from drunk driving enforcement, injuries, deaths, missed days of work, property damage, rehabilitation, other alcohol related accidents (such as boating or snowmobiling accidents), licensing, and regulation? While we do collect a lot of tax from alcohol sales, does it off set this? We will also have to screen for every legalized drug that could be detrimental to in a safety sensitive job, such as pilots and mechanics. These tests will have to be developed and paid for. Policies will have to written and enforced as to what is acceptable and what is not. These policies should have sound clinical trials to back them up. Standards and enforcement for the standards will have to be developed. Regulation costs money too. It isn't as simple as saying, "OK, go smoke and shoot up to your heart's content now".

So, what is the benefit to society of legalizing other drugs? If it is only for monetary reasons, then it is a sad commentary on our values.

I am not a a prohibitionist or a tea totaller. I like wine with a nice meal, or a good beer as much as the next guy, but if alcohol dissappeared tomorrow it would not significantly alter my life.
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Jetsgo
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:25 am

Personally, I'm in the middle. But to address the topic:

Today, pot is a gateway drug. It is what non serious druggies use and what kids try just to rebel. If we legalize it, what becomes the next gateway drug? Cocaine? That's way worse of a drug and I sure as hell wouldn't want my kids someday using it as a gateway.
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mbmbos
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Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:36 am

You know, I don't particularly know this era of history well, but I know that some claim that a few hundred years ago China lost its status as a powerful nation because of extensive opium addiction.

The historians among you can weigh in on this one. But I think one of the strongest arguments against full spectrum drug legalization could be one of national security. Opiates, for example, seem extremely damaging; the kind of damage that on a large scale could cripple a country (unmotivated workforce, rampant illness, selling resources to the lowest bidder for the expedience of more opium, etc.)

Anyway, I think of cocaine and heroin as really terrible drugs and I'd hate to see widespread addiction. Both drugs have proven to be highly addictive and physically damaging.

People should be able to smoke and sell pot as far as I'm concerned.
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Flighty
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:36 am

Yeah this is really hard. The best thing about legalization is that the money is removed from the illegal drug system. But if you think about it, plenty of legal drugs (Oxycontin) are abused a whole bunch today. And companies make lots of money off that.

So what is the solution? Maybe legalize pot but some states are already doing that. Another solution is the death penalty. Singapore does that.
 
NIKV69
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:11 am



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 2):
Well, there's the obvious: health hazards.

Some drugs are incredibly addictive, and don't exactly do any favors for your mental and physical health.

I generally support legalization of weed. Harder drugs, though? Much more difficult question

Yet these things you just made reference too are exactly the same now that they are illegal. People get them anyway.

Why does my state of NY insist of not allowing poker or gaming yet you can bet on horses? It's lunacy. Legalize and tax it all. Prostitution, drugs and gambling. Nothing would change except the police wouldn't waste money on things they make no difference with and each state would make a ton of revenue and the drug cartels would collapse. Sounds good to me.
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PPVRA
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:15 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 1):
How the hell do you think the street addicts would pay for their now legal drugs

These drugs would be much cheaper. No one fights over cheap stuff. As long as we don't make the mistake of legalizing it and taxing it to the point it becomes about as expensive as they are now, things will change. Much of the violence comes from drug trafficking, and that will essentially be completely gone.

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 1):

Plus people who have drugs would be robbery targets and these drugs would then be sold to other users creating another kind of dealer.....

This argument also assumes a very high price will remain.

[Edited 2009-04-08 19:20:45]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
vikkyvik
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:33 am



Quoting Lowrider (Reply 3):
So, what is the benefit to society of legalizing other drugs? If it is only for monetary reasons, then it is a sad commentary on our values.

That may be true.

But the same could be said for why alcohol is still legal (monetary reasons). Far as I can tell, alcohol does absolutely no service to society in general.

It seems to me, in general, that legalizing drugs may end one set of problems, but create another set. Same with prohibiting alcohol - you don't end up with less problems, you just end up with different problems.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 7):
Yet these things you just made reference too are exactly the same now that they are illegal. People get them anyway.

Oh I know. But he asked about hazards. And hazards they are.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 7):
Nothing would change except the police wouldn't waste money on things they make no difference with and each state would make a ton of revenue and the drug cartels would collapse. Sounds good to me.

See this:

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 3):
What is the total cost from drunk driving enforcement, injuries, deaths, missed days of work, property damage, rehabilitation, other alcohol related accidents (such as boating or snowmobiling accidents), licensing, and regulation? While we do collect a lot of tax from alcohol sales, does it off set this? We will also have to screen for every legalized drug that could be detrimental to in a safety sensitive job, such as pilots and mechanics. These tests will have to be developed and paid for. Policies will have to written and enforced as to what is acceptable and what is not. These policies should have sound clinical trials to back them up. Standards and enforcement for the standards will have to be developed. Regulation costs money too. It isn't as simple as saying, "OK, go smoke and shoot up to your heart's content now".

Like I said: eliminate one problem, create another. I don't think it's an easy decision.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
PPVRA
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:41 am

I believe the question of whether the costs (monetary, social, etc.) of legalizing/prohibiting alcohol was answered by the passage of the twenty-first amendment to the US Constitution after some hands-on experience.

If you want, legalize one drug at a time and figure out the costs (not just monetary). But don't expect all the results promised at once when you only legalize one drug.

Also remember another non-monetary cost of prohibition: my freedom of choice.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
flymia
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:02 am

no no no!!! First these are horrible drugs. Second the government would not sell these drugs for cheap so the drug cartels will always be selling them at a lower price. We already have a huge drug problem why make it worse. Also speaking of money imagine the medical cost and how many more people would die from drug use.
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VonRichtofen
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:09 am

An even harder one to argue is why prostitution should not be legalized.
 
lowrider
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:47 am



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 9):
why alcohol is still legal

I agree with you. The only reason it is legal is we found that it was too inconvienent to outlaw it. The whole "camel got his nose under the tent" analogy springs to mind. Like I said earlier, it wouldn't make a difference to me personally if alcohol went away tonight. I think the costs far outweigh the benefits. BUT, I am not certain if that is going too far in imposing my ideals on others. Look at how many people, from teens to otherwise responsible adults, virtually worship at the alter of alcohol and good times. I can only imagine how they would react if I took away their god. I can only imagine how much worse it would be with more powerful drugs.
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WarRI1
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:12 am

Is there anyone out there who has not been touched by drugs? How could anyone who has, even think about legalizing them. The experiance I had was family, not good, tragic, the saddest thing that I have seen, except fatal illness. It has been in my childrens neighborhood friends, 25 years ago now. Two brothers have no life from them, completly wasted. I thank God, my children did not get involved, now I worry about my Grandchildren.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Alias1024
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:14 am

I'm too socially libertarian to support our nation's current stance on drug laws. I follow them because I have no desire to use drugs that are now illegal, not to mention the random testing at work as mandated by the FAA. I don't really see why drugs shouldn't be legalized with a structure of regulation and laws similar to alcohol. I don't care what someone does with their own body, but it crosses the line when it endangers someone else.

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 9):
Far as I can tell, alcohol does absolutely no service to society in general.

It helps ugly men and women get laid.

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 12):
An even harder one to argue is why prostitution should not be legalized.

 checkmark 
It would require some regulation, but I can't make an argument for why two consenting adults shouldn't be able to do what they want with their bodies behind closed doors. I've always thought it strange that it's legal for an actor/actress to be paid to have sex on camera, but illegal if one of the people having sex is paying the other one.

Quoting Flymia (Reply 11):
Second the government would not sell these drugs for cheap so the drug cartels will always be selling them at a lower price.

Who said anything about the government selling the drugs? The government would tax them, but I would imagine that private enterprises would create and sell the drugs. Prices would fall due to the competition. Free markets would drive prices down from where they are now.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
JoeCanuck
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:36 am



Quoting Greasespot (Reply 1):
Street crime would not disappear....How the hell do you think the street addicts would pay for their now legal drugs....People hooked on drugs are not normally employable....While there would be no Street dealing there would be the same B&E's and robberies to pay...in fact these may go up as people no longer have to hide their addictions..

Plus people who have drugs would be robbery targets and these drugs would then be sold to other users creating another kind of dealer.....

Any drug that anybody wants to use is readily available right now and they are going to get them. Ask the kids or your neighbor or mom how to buy drugs. Chances are, they know and can get them in about a half hour.

Currently, they get them from a series of criminal organizations. Society is already paying for the drug use and add to that the cost of completely ineffectually policing them.

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 3):
Are we (or you) prepared as a society to shoulder the cost of highly addictive drugs that have little or no medical value, and many have detrimental health effects? Other than reducing enforcement costs, and a few additional tax dollars, what benefit would it have?

That cost is already being shouldered by society...and society isn't getting anything for the trouble. Anybody who wants or needs to use drugs is getting them already...right now.

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 3):
Take alcohol, for example. What is the total cost from drunk driving enforcement, injuries, deaths, missed days of work, property damage, rehabilitation, other alcohol related accidents (such as boating or snowmobiling accidents), licensing, and regulation? While we do collect a lot of tax from alcohol sales, does it off set this?

Prohibition proved that people will drink anyway. The 30's led to an exponential rise in organized crime. The mob was built on booze. From that, it was a short journey to drugs and more gangsters shooting up cities. Yay prohibition.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 4):

Today, pot is a gateway drug.

That myth has been around for decades. I remember seeing that film in school 30 years ago. The theory is that people will smoke pot, then grow addicted and need a bigger rush and move up to coke, smack, whatever.

The fact is that tobacco and booze are the primary gateway drugs...if you believe in that theory. There are plenty of people who drink who aren't alcoholics and who smoke dope without getting addicted. Tobacco is much more addictive than either.

Regardless, people can get addicted to anything. Gambling has finally been legalized. Now, society gets the profits and even spins some of it back into addiction programs. The mobs run some casinos but they also pay taxes.

Quoting Flymia (Reply 11):
no no no!!! First these are horrible drugs. Second the government would not sell these drugs for cheap so the drug cartels will always be selling them at a lower price. We already have a huge drug problem why make it worse. Also speaking of money imagine the medical cost and how many more people would die from drug use.

Of course the government could sell drugs cheaper than the cartels. They would just become the biggest gang and it's all about volume. Besides, they wouldn't have to sell for a profit. The billions saved by a much smaller war on drugs would make up any difference.

There isn't a single person who can't get drugs if they want them, including everyone in prison. Face it...if we can't even keep drugs out of prisons, what chance do we have out in the world? Addicts are already getting the drugs and society is already paying the price...with no compensation.

Something certainly has to change. The war on drugs is being lost...if it's not lost already. Whatever is being done now isn't working...not even a little.

Perhaps legalization isn't the answer...if not, what is?
What the...?
 
vikkyvik
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:25 am



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 16):

The fact is that tobacco and booze are the primary gateway drugs...if you believe in that theory.

 checkmark 

I actually meant to say that too. In my view, tobacco and alcohol are much more of gateway drugs than weed. And they're perfectly legal, for better or for worse.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 15):

It helps ugly men and women get laid.

Haha, I knew someone was going to respond with that  Smile

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 14):
Is there anyone out there who has not been touched by drugs? How could anyone who has, even think about legalizing them. The experiance I had was family, not good, tragic, the saddest thing that I have seen, except fatal illness. It has been in my childrens neighborhood friends, 25 years ago now. Two brothers have no life from them, completly wasted. I thank God, my children did not get involved, now I worry about my Grandchildren.

I haven't really been touched by illegal drugs in a negative way, but I've fought my own battle with alcohol. It was a horrible few years, and it's still painful for me to think about it, and especially about the pain I caused my family.

But despite that, I'm not a prohibitionist. The fact that alcohol is legal was not a causal factor for me (though it did, obviously, make obtaining it less of a hassle). But an addict surely isn't going to let mere laws get in the way of their addiction.

I view drug use and abuse similarly. At a certain point, it's solely up to the individual to make smart decisions.

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 13):
I think the costs far outweigh the benefits. BUT, I am not certain if that is going too far in imposing my ideals on others.

I too think the costs outweigh the benefits. But I don't support making alcohol illegal. And I don't judge people who drink (that'd be pretty darn hypocritical of me, given my past).
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
smcmac32msn
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:28 am

We should legalize weed and tax the hell out of it. Pay for new roads, education, and reduce usage........... it would end up like ciggarettes.... but we tax it at a higher rate sooner.
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JoeCanuck
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:41 am



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 14):
Is there anyone out there who has not been touched by drugs? How could anyone who has, even think about legalizing them. The experiance I had was family, not good, tragic, the saddest thing that I have seen, except fatal illness. It has been in my childrens neighborhood friends, 25 years ago now. Two brothers have no life from them, completly wasted. I thank God, my children did not get involved, now I worry about my Grandchildren.

This could actually be an argument FOR the legalization of drugs. These people whose lives were shattered by drugs still managed to get them. Drugs being illegal hasn't prevented one single person from getting them.

Drugs of any sort are pitifully easy for anyone to get...just go to any schoolyard in america. Ask the kids. If they don't know any drug dealers, they can tell you who does.

The drugs are already out there. No matter how tough the sanctions and penalties, the problem keeps growing.

Drugs are destroying millions of lives and it's getting worse...not better. Whatever the hell we're doing now isn't working.

Drugs being legal can't possibly make them more accessible. They are available to whomever wishes to buy them. They are completely out of control and we are powerless to stop it.

The system is broken...can it be fixed...?
What the...?
 
baroque
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:54 pm



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 2):
Well, there's the obvious: health hazards.
Yes, in general they would be lower. Esp if you have needles also available to stop the spread of Hep alpha soup and HIV.
Some drugs are incredibly addictive, and don't exactly do any favors for your mental and physical health.

It is a little known fact that these drugs are much less addictive when bought illegally. No wait, that cannot be true. Sorry to sound flippant, but so what? They are all of those things and worse due to contamination when illegal.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 7):
Why does my state of NY insist of not allowing poker or gaming yet you can bet on horses? It's lunacy. Legalize and tax it all. Prostitution, drugs and gambling. Nothing would change except the police wouldn't waste money on things they make no difference with and each state would make a ton of revenue and the drug cartels would collapse. Sounds good to me.

 checkmark  We might both want to nip downstairs in case it has frozen over, but here I am in furious agreement.  bigthumbsup  Nice summary of the main points for how stupid are present policies.

Some years ago the BBC made a program on drugs. They pointed out that the classic hard drugs were developed as a response to making the less lethal versions illegal. Opium has a strong smell so it was refined to heroin which made it easier to smuggle and it does not smell, except to sniffer dogs.

A truck load of coca leaves was a lot less dangerous than cocaine, let alone crack, not that I actually know what crack is. And then of course suppressing all those simply awful heroin and cocaine drugs simply led to synthetics some of which are even worse for health.

I assume the BBC was right when they pointed out that the hypodermic needle was invented by a Scots doctor who was worried about his wife's addiction to heroin taken orally as a medicine as it commonly was in the 19th century. He figured that if he could bypass the alimentary tract, it would not be addictive - OOOPS. And the second oops was his wife was the first to die of an injected overdose of heroin.

Get the official in the taxation departments to organize the sale, they will love it. That is if they don't get assassinated by worried crims in the drug business.  covereyes 
 
Pyrex
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:02 pm

My argument against legalization of drugs is simple - it's called "Amsterdam". Have you ever been to the place? It is a perfect example of what happens to society once you send out the message that drugs are OK. The whole place stinks of weed, there are "magic mushroom" shops in every street corner and you cannot walk 10 meters without walking by a guy trying to sell you ectasy or cocaine. Does anyone really think it is a coincidence the Netherlands are responsible for producing 90% of the world's ectasy?

The last thing I want is to be standing in a bus stop and have a guy standing next to me holding a lit reefer. It is bad enough that my downstairs neighbor smokes weed all the time, if yu tell people it is OK to stink the streets it is going to get ugly.
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DocLightning
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:15 pm



Quoting Greasespot (Reply 1):
Street crime would not disappear....How the hell do you think the street addicts would pay for their now legal drugs....People hooked on drugs are not normally employable....While there would be no Street dealing there would be the same B&E's and robberies to pay...in fact these may go up as people no longer have to hide their addictions..

Yeah, but it wouldn't get worse. A major portion of the cost of illegal drugs is the risk of being illegal. So if they were legal, they'd be a lot cheaper. Yeah, addicts would still have to beg, borrow, and steal, but not as much.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 4):

Today, pot is a gateway drug. It is what non serious druggies use and what kids try just to rebel. If we legalize it, what becomes the next gateway drug? Cocaine? That's way worse of a drug and I sure as hell wouldn't want my kids someday using it as a gateway.

The "gateway" theory has been repeatedly disproved.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 14):
Is there anyone out there who has not been touched by drugs? How could anyone who has, even think about legalizing them.

Yes, in fact my nephew died at 21 after a long battle with drugs and depression. Had those drugs been legal, he might not have been thrown into jail. He would have had an easier time getting rehab. He might be alive today.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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max550
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:37 pm



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 21):
My argument against legalization of drugs is simple - it's called "Amsterdam". Have you ever been to the place?

I was there last year, and I remember it far differently from the way you describe it. There were parts of the city where the prostitution and drug use was, but if you didn't want to see or be involved with that the rest of the city was just as clean, if not cleaner, than any city where drugs are illegal. I also didn't run into the people selling ecstasy and cocaine, but I don't doubt that they are there. Drugs like that should remain illegal, marijuana is a different story though.
I also think that keeping pot illegal makes other illegal drugs seem less harmful to people. All through your childhood you're told how bad pot is, then you try it and find out it's not that bad for you. Wouldn't you then think that all these other drugs that people say are so bad really aren't all that bad? Maybe that's why people say pot is a gateway drug.
 
greasespot
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Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:38 pm

again someone hooked on crack is still not employable and therefore going to have to commit crimes to pay for them.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 8):
These drugs would be much cheaper. No one fights over cheap stuff.

Oh and most think that drugs are so expensive when in effect most street drugs such as crack and meth are quite cheap at the street lever. I know that a rock of crack goes for under 10bucks..... Street junkies are not committing crimes to afford hundreds of dollars in drugs. They can pretty much stay high all day for under 75 a day....

Most of the street crime is not over power cocaine but for the cheap crack....

If the price of crack is 5 bucks and one guy has some....another will rob that guy of his crack and sell it for 2.50....or use it himself.....

I stand by my original statement that street crime will not decrease just because it is now legal...

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
MaverickM11
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:48 pm



Quoting JoeCanuck (Thread starter):
I've been pondering what would happen if currently illegal drugs, not just grass, were legalized.

How would regulation work? Lawyers have had a feel day with tobacco, so how would cocaine, heroin, and even marijuana stack up? What company would even consider selling such a harmful substance knowing the enormous amount of liability? And would any lawyer that sues them run afoul of organized crime? I imagine a lot of dead lawyers if drugs are legalized. So basically a win win Wink.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
skyservice_330
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:01 pm

The only way to keep kids from using drugs is to teach them all the cool names they have.  Wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90rw7_6cUDE
 
baroque
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:06 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 25):
And would any lawyer that sues them run afoul of organized crime? I imagine a lot of dead lawyers if drugs are legalized. So basically a win win

There could be many hidden and unexpected benefits.  Big grin
 
PPVRA
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Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:24 pm

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 24):

If you get your crack stolen, what are you to do? Call the cops? That will land you in jail with the thief. There's a strong disincentive to report these crimes, and you have what basically amounts to a free for all for thieves.

[Edited 2009-04-09 11:34:49]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
petertenthije
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:35 pm



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 21):
My argument against legalization of drugs is simple - it's called "Amsterdam". Have you ever been to the place? It is a perfect example of what happens to society once you send out the message that drugs are OK. The whole place stinks of weed, there are "magic mushroom" shops in every street corner and you cannot walk 10 meters without walking by a guy trying to sell you ectasy or cocaine. Does anyone really think it is a coincidence the Netherlands are responsible for producing 90% of the world's ectasy?

That's not a good excuse. The only reason Amsterdam is the pothole it is, is because it is the place all those repressed foreigners go. Go to nearby places, big or small, and you won't find the "Amsterdam experience". That's uniquely Amsterdam and on a smaller scale a few cities close to the German and Belgian border.
Attamottamotta!
 
TylerDurden
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:44 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 25):
And would any lawyer that sues them run afoul of organized crime? I imagine a lot of dead lawyers if drugs are legalized. So basically a win win

Problem is we're just not that easy to get rid of....a bit like cockroaches...
 Smile

Legalize drugs? I'll go with pot---having never seen any convicing evidence of 'gateway' to other drugs.
Having successfully defended dozens of folks on possession charges, I think it's a huge waste of time for the State and law enforcement to pursue it.

Trafficking is another matter, altogether.
 
lewis
Posts: 3581
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:51 pm



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 4):

I have to agree with you. I am pro-legalization for weed, but this might lead young people to use harder drugs in order to seem 'cool' by breaking the law.

What I would be for is to have some 'tolerance' for weed. Keep it illegal but at the same time remove some silly punishments that exist for weed use. Even with that, I doubt many more people will smoke, mainly due to the general negative opinion about it.

Here in Greece, someone can spend the night in jail, get harassed or even beaten up by the police for smoking weed. In addition, it can stay on your record permanantly and mark you for the rest of your life. I myself find weed smoking much less dangerous than alcohol drinking, both for health and hazzard caused to those around you.
 
redflyer
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:57 pm

I used to be completely against legalization of drugs because of the fear that legalization would result in its use flourishing among the general population. However, I've since come 180 degrees and am completely in favor of legalization for many of the pro reasons detailed by various posters, above.

There is no way legalizing it has to mean that its use will increase. In a heavily regulated environment and through education campaigns, its use can actually be DECREASED. One need only look at tobacco. 40 years ago, roughly 50% of the population used tobacco. That's now down to, I believe, somewhere around 22% here in the U.S. Tobacco is legal, yet through education programs and the stigma created within the health industry, its use has actually gone down dramatically.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 25):
What company would even consider selling such a harmful substance knowing the enormous amount of liability?

I think anything stronger than pot should be sold by the government. All the profits would go into government coffers and the government would be able to keep an eye on who is actually using the stuff. Meaning, if you want to use it, sign up and buy it from the Feds. They can then monitor its usage and watch for trends. It might foster a black market for those who can't buy because the Feds determine that you're using it too much, but at least the criminal elements that create the black market could then be heavily punished. And that would be one "drug war" worth fighting.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 21):
My argument against legalization of drugs is simple - it's called "Amsterdam". Have you ever been to the place? It is a perfect example of what happens to society once you send out the message that drugs are OK. The whole place stinks of weed, there are "magic mushroom" shops in every street corner and you cannot walk 10 meters without walking by a guy trying to sell you ectasy or cocaine.

Not to be disrespectful, but what Amsterdam are you talking about? I've been there many times and it's nowhere near how you describe it.
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NIKV69
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:02 pm



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 9):
Like I said: eliminate one problem, create another. I don't think it's an easy decision.

This is not accurate. Just because something is legal doesn't mean you will get a spike in usage. Fact is the same people that would use it will do so whether it's legal or not.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:03 pm

Think of Speak Easies and how they glorified a lifestyle of alcohol consumption. Might we be glorifying drug use with our laws, rather than marginalizing it?

Looking on Google maps there seems to be Speak Easies all over the world, even China. We went from demonizing alcohol to a successful business model. . that's no way to fight alcohol consumption/abuse.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Speak%...-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl

(Google maps doesn't even show one bar called Speak Easy I know of. . . must be missing many others)

[Edited 2009-04-09 12:07:36]
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JoeCanuck
Topic Author
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:53 pm



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 21):
My argument against legalization of drugs is simple - it's called "Amsterdam". Have you ever been to the place? It is a perfect example of what happens to society once you send out the message that drugs are OK. The whole place stinks of weed, there are "magic mushroom" shops in every street corner and you cannot walk 10 meters without walking by a guy trying to sell you ectasy or cocaine. Does anyone really think it is a coincidence the Netherlands are responsible for producing 90% of the world's ectasy?

Have you ever been to downtown Vancouver? Every single big city, and most small towns including the 50,000 population one I live in, has a seedy downtown or neighborhood...(or several), where no right thinking person would ever set foot.

If Amsterdam wasn't the only city with such liberal laws, then a lot fewer people would go there for drugs. People flock to Amsterdam because they can use drugs with impunity. If they could use at home, why go to Amsterdam?

Currently, it's almost impossible to get arrested in Canada for smoking pot. While still not strictly legal, you have to really p!ss off a cop to get locked up for using. Even then, you won't serve any time....and yet, there hasn't been a mad rush for people to take up smoking dope.

It's about availability. The west is already a drug superstore. Any drug anybody wants is currently readily available. Drugs being illegal hasn't prevented one person from using them.

We can't use availability as a reason not to legalize. That wouldn't change enough to matter. Punishment hasn't worked...there is more dope in prison than on the outside. Interdiction hasn't worked...there is more dope on the streets than ever before.

Drugs being illegal hasn't worked...if anything, it's made things worse. The war in Afghanistan is being financed by the poppy they grow. What would the Taliban do for money if the poppy was legally bought by governments instead of warlords?

If not legalization, then what is the answer? Does anyone breathing think that Just Say No has worked?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 25):

How would regulation work? Lawyers have had a feel day with tobacco, so how would cocaine, heroin, and even marijuana stack up? What company would even consider selling such a harmful substance knowing the enormous amount of liability? And would any lawyer that sues them run afoul of organized crime? I imagine a lot of dead lawyers if drugs are legalized. So basically a win win

If it's regulated by the government, to a large degree, liability concerns could be dealt with.

This has been a good, (and civil), discussion so far...let's keep it going. Regardless of whether or not you agree with the concept of legalization, bring your own ideas to the discussion. The majority of our law enforcement energy and money goes to drug crime and prevention, (most of the rest of it goes to camouflaging cops with radar to look like trees and bridges).

Throwing more money at the current system, (if what we're doing now is organized enough to call a system), just isn't working. Something will work...we just have to find it.
What the...?
 
oly720man
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:57 pm

So, what makes people take drugs? I haven't and have no intention of, but I don't mix with drug users, even users of socially acceptable substances, AFAIK. I've been to Amsterdam, introduced above, a few times and never felt any inclination to go and smoke pot or take any other substances. So what is it?

Illegal => danger/excitement/two fingers to the law?
For the experience. Thrill seeking. Widening ones mind. For the trip?
Habit?
Peer pressure?
Boredom? Need a lift?
Because everyone else does?
Just the nature of human experience and expanding the boundaries? I mean, Rock 'n Roll was probably treated in 1950's USA the same way that drugs are now - dangerous, the end of civilization as we know it, etc, and today it's used in adverts (which are the end of civilization, but anyway).

Bill Hicks has often told his tales of mushroom trips and his perceived greater understanding of life and the universe. Most of the indigenous tribes around the world seem to have chemically enhanced experiences, if the many documentaries about such people are believed. And poets, musicians, artists couldn't have produced some of their work "sober". And then the likes of Steve Tyler allegedly snorted $1million in coke during his career.

Why are drugs demonised? Why are they treated so badly when the like of tobacco and alcohol and food/bad diet individually kill or affect considerably more people than the combined totals of all illegal drugs?

Who has sat in a dark smoky room and decided "bad"? Did someone think that an illegal drug trade could be controlled so making drugs illegal was no problem because, in the day, it was much more localised? Now there is a global market and many willing to supply it, and those talented with a chemistry set are more than willing to enhance existing products or create new ones. And now the damage is done and drugs are so pervasive it just wouldn't be right to turn round and say, "OK, they're legal because we can't do anything about controlling them." Or just that all the people who'd illegally got rich with drugs would be legitimised?

Does it benefit certain individuals/organisations to have illegal substances that are so readily available and create lots of money.

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flymia
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:16 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
The "gateway" theory has been repeatedly disproved.

From my personal experiences the gateway theory is 100% CORRECT. Almost every single person I know has tried pot at least once or twice. The majority has not done any other illegal drugs (65% maybe) but most continue to use pot on what I would call a regular basis more than a few times a year. Yet many of them after trying marijuana have tried other drugs such as ecstasy and cocaine and some even would use those on a regular basis now. However NONE have ever started off with another drug than go to marijuana. Marijuana is a gateway drug. It is the safest and more accessible drug for teens to obtain. Than at some point some will try some of the harder stuff. This is from my personal experience and I am only 19 years old. I just don’t get how people don’t believe marijuana is not a gateway drug. Show me some one who has done cocaine or ecstasy before marijuana and I will show you a unicorn.

Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 30):
Legalize drugs? I'll go with pot---having never seen any convicing evidence of 'gateway' to other drugs.
Having successfully defended dozens of folks on possession charges, I think it's a huge waste of time for the State and law enforcement to pursue it.

Trafficking is another matter, altogether.

But if laws are less strict on users than they will keep using which means people will keep trafficking. So if trafficking is so bad than the only way to stop it is to stop the users.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 32):
I think anything stronger than pot should be sold by the government.


What kind of government would sell cocaine or heroine to it's people? That is sometime from a sci-fi Movie.

Drugs are just a terrible thing, they only cause problems. I a might be a little biases in this subject since one day I would like to work for the DEA for the simple reason that Drugs cause huge problems in society. Violence, Death, Family Struggles, you name it drugs make it happen. They will never be legalized. If President Obama does not think it is a good idea I don’t know who in America would ever even think about doing it.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 11909
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:33 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 20):
It is a little known fact that these drugs are much less addictive when bought illegally. No wait, that cannot be true. Sorry to sound flippant, but so what? They are all of those things and worse due to contamination when illegal.

See this:

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 9):
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 7):
Yet these things you just made reference too are exactly the same now that they are illegal. People get them anyway.

Oh I know. But he asked about hazards. And hazards they are.



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 33):
This is not accurate. Just because something is legal doesn't mean you will get a spike in usage. Fact is the same people that would use it will do so whether it's legal or not.

Cool. Problem is, I never mentioned a spike in usage. I never mentioned anything about rates of usage at all.

And is the 2nd part of that a fact? Do you have studies to back it up?

Quoting Flymia (Reply 37):

From my personal experiences the gateway theory is 100% CORRECT. Almost every single person I know has tried pot at least once or twice. The majority has not done any other illegal drugs (65% maybe) but most continue to use pot on what I would call a regular basis more than a few times a year. Yet many of them after trying marijuana have tried other drugs such as ecstasy and cocaine and some even would use those on a regular basis now.

I'd bet quite a bit of money that most of those people had an alcoholic drink or smoked a cigarette before they smoked pot.

Quoting Flymia (Reply 37):
Show me some one who has done cocaine or ecstasy before marijuana and I will show you a unicorn.

Marijuana is easy to obtain, and relatively mellow. If you are someone who would use cocaine or ecstasy or any hard drug, I'm sure marijuana isn't exactly something you would steer away from. And given its prevalence....well, it's almost a given that someone who uses hard drugs would have smoked weed.

Contrast that with someone like me. I have never, and hope to never use any hard drugs in my life. Weed, alcohol and cigarettes all don't
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3402
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:27 pm



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 4):

Today, pot is a gateway drug. It is what non serious druggies use and what kids try just to rebel. If we legalize it, what becomes the next gateway drug? Cocaine? That's way worse of a drug and I sure as hell wouldn't want my kids someday using it as a gateway.

Is there concrete evidence to this or is this your opinion.

The reason I doubt the legitimacy to the fact that weed is a gateway drug because its very hard to prove and how it's done now is to poll known drug addicts and ask if they have ever smoked weed. Its never said whether or not the drug addict did the weed or say the crack first, its just assumed that was the sequence of event.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 14):
Is there anyone out there who has not been touched by drugs? How could anyone who has, even think about legalizing them. The experiance I had was family, not good, tragic, the saddest thing that I have seen, except fatal illness. It has been in my childrens neighborhood friends, 25 years ago now.

Personally I do feel for you and it is very sad when an otherwise good person gets into trouble with drugs  Sad.

However would drugs being legal have done anything to change this event.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 32):
There is no way legalizing it has to mean that its use will increase. In a heavily regulated environment and through education campaigns, its use can actually be DECREASED.

To use alcohol as an example the US drinking age is 21 and in most other places its 18 or 19 (16 for beer and wine in most European countries). It is a fact that the US has a much higher rate of binge drinking than other places because of the hype of the drug. Also in North America kids are strictly not allowed to drink unless they do it illegally. Where as in Europe they can drink younger and get the drunk phase out of their systems earlier and even before they are allowed to buy booze their parents have given them wine at dinner which one glass will get a 12 year old pretty hammered.

I have seen the effects of this with first year university students in Canada and my god they have no idea what they are doing when drinking and doing very dumb stuff that I once did but have no desire to do anymore.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 35):
Currently, it's almost impossible to get arrested in Canada for smoking pot. While still not strictly legal, you have to really p!ss off a cop to get locked up for using. Even then, you won't serve any time....and yet, there hasn't been a mad rush for people to take up smoking dope.

This isn't intended to be a jab at the US but I do know if we didn't share a border with you (not saying I don't value bordering the US because I do) we would have decriminalized it because we wanted to in 2003 but the DEA said you better not dare doing it. I also believe we would have legalized it, and the day you do we will follow in a New York minute.

Most may not know this but one of the most wanted drug dealers wanted by the DEA under US law is a pot entrepreneur named Marc Emery who has sold seeds adding up to over 1 million pounds of weed in the US allegedly, and he is proud of it.
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ltbewr
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:01 am

First of all, there is a difference between 'soft' drugs, mainly pot, and 'hard' drugs like heroin, cocaine, opium, most hulicigonics and chemical based drugs like meth as reflected in the laws at least in the USA. That also explains why in the Netherlands, they have limited laws on pot and certain other 'soft' drugs and major penalties for 'hard'.

For the 'hard' drugs, the best reasoning for their being illegal is why they are and have been for about 100 years. In the late 1800's and into the early 20th Century, there were no food or drug laws. With few if any drugs by then to deal with physical health problems, many seeing to make money created what were often called 'patent' medicines to allegedly cure or give you some help with whatever you were hurting from or needed help with. Most of them were loaded with 'hard' drugs including opium, codine and the like, usually mixed with significant amounts of alcohol. Even basic products like Coca-Cola originally contained cocaine in it to give you a 'lift'. There became a growing amout of addiction to such 'legal' drugs, causing serious social problems including violence, other health problems, crime to get the money to get another fix, decreasing the ability or desire to work, higher rates of work injuries and the like. Many who saw these problems, especially women and religious groups as well as business leaders used their political voices (and for men, their votes) to demand regulation against such products. The politicans complied to get the votes by making so that such drugs were largely made to be only be prescribed by a doctor and made by legitment companies and only available in specialy licenced places.
 
dc9northwest
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:01 am



Quoting Flymia (Reply 37):
However NONE have ever started off with another drug than go to marijuana.



Quoting Flymia (Reply 37):
Show me some one who has done cocaine or ecstasy before marijuana and I will show you a unicorn.

Mmmkay... Where's the unicorn?

Someone, who isn't me, but who I know well has started with... cocaine. Four months ago. He had never previously used drugs, no alcohol, no cigarettes, no tobacco and no weed. This particular person said that he was interested in drugs, for a while, without doing them. Just history, etc. Researching drugs and their effects, he came to this conclusion: of all common drugs, cocaine is less harmful/damaging to the brain (dopamine levels is another thing, but those quickly go back to normal) than any other well-known drug. Also, unlike alcohol, tobacco, etc, cocaine is NOT physically addictive. There are studies to prove it, even online.

Basically, I've been around drunk people and people that are occasional cocaine users (and yes, there IS such a thing). There is no way in hell I'd prefer to be next to a drunk person.

As a summary, I think everything should be legal, taxed and regulated. Now, there are some problems about using some drugs as date-rape drugs... BUT... If that's the trouble, ban alcohol... It leads to unwanted sex and pregnacies, etc.

Marijuana fucks up memory too badly during the experience. Also, being a depressant, it can lead to slowed reaction time, and therefore accidents. I'm not saying there haven't been accidents while on coke, but most people are still themselves while on it, and have improved reflexes (not all, I assume).

I won't even go into alcohol. That's the one drug I would ban, although I still think it should be legal. But hey, I won't be touching that shit.

Tobacco.... I don't get why people use it. The buzz is shit, pure and simple, and smoking is disgusting.

Ecstasy is not the safest of drugs, because it can lead to hyponatremia (upon drinking too much water) or dehydration (not drinking enough), but occasional use does not lead to holes in the brain as some might say.

I could go on. But as a summary, I believe that legalizing other drugs would not increase societal problems, as there are enough already, with alcohol and with illegal drugs. Walk down the street, you can get meth in 10 minutes. Seriously, I'm told it's that easy.

Oh, btw, hallucinogenics, dissociatives and deliriants must be used with a sitter or at home, not while driving or doing other important activities. Recreational use of drugs is alright, as long as you only endanger yourself. Otherwise, it's not... But legalizing it won't make it any easier to get drugs. Plus, some drugs, like ketamine, are finding more and more legitimate uses (treating depression, addiction), and I have no clue why they're scheduled by the DEA.

People, do not do drugs without knowing what they do. And, do not do anything illegal which can screw up your life. But I would be hypocritical if I were to say that coke is more dangerous than vodka.
 
JoeCanuck
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:37 am



Quoting Flymia (Reply 37):
From my personal experiences the gateway theory is 100% CORRECT. Almost every single person I know has tried pot at least once or twice. The majority has not done any other illegal drugs (65% maybe) but most continue to use pot on what I would call a regular basis more than a few times a year. Yet many of them after trying marijuana have tried other drugs such as ecstasy and cocaine and some even would use those on a regular basis now. However NONE have ever started off with another drug than go to marijuana. Marijuana is a gateway drug. It is the safest and more accessible drug for teens to obtain. Than at some point some will try some of the harder stuff. This is from my personal experience and I am only 19 years old. I just don’t get how people don’t believe marijuana is not a gateway drug. Show me some one who has done cocaine or ecstasy before marijuana and I will show you a unicorn.

Where I grew up, sniffing glue and gasoline, drinking Lysol and vanilla extract were the drugs of choice...and all of these things are perfectly legal. I was surrounded by the devastation that these completely legal substances caused. Legality has little bearing on the effects of addiction or the availability of substances to abuse.

With so much money being thrown away on losing this war, there is almost nothing left for education or treatment.

Quoting Flymia (Reply 37):
What kind of government would sell cocaine or heroine to it's people? That is sometime from a sci-fi Movie.

Drugs are just a terrible thing, they only cause problems. I a might be a little biases in this subject since one day I would like to work for the DEA for the simple reason that Drugs cause huge problems in society. Violence, Death, Family Struggles, you name it drugs make it happen. They will never be legalized. If President Obama does not think it is a good idea I don’t know who in America would ever even think about doing it.

The drugs are already in your neighborhood, being sold to whomever right under your nose. Pretending otherwise has gotten us to where we are now and it's only getting worse.

How many thousands of lives are ended or ruined by perfectly legal things like alcohol, tobacco, gambling, automobiles, guns and, lest we forget, war?

Let's not just shoot down ideas simply because they seem unpalatable. I find the current deaths and other crimes caused by completely ineffective current war on drugs totally unacceptable. It's been proven not to work for decades yet governments keep throwing more money at it.

I find it hard to imagine a bigger waste of money than what is currently being done. Is there a better way...I really hope there is.
What the...?
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3402
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:43 am



Quoting Flymia (Reply 37):
Yet many of them after trying marijuana have tried other drugs such as ecstasy and cocaine and some even would use those on a regular basis now. However NONE have ever started off with another drug than go to marijuana. Marijuana is a gateway drug

What is your sample set for this argument?
Your only 19 and you may not realize the reasons that these people are resorting to drugs and if they are your age it may be experimentation and they may not develop an addiction. If tthey have, I bet for another reason than trying pot first. It might be a gateway for some people but its no more one than booze, cigarettes or any other previous addictive behaviour. Most people have problems you wouldn't concieve of having and I do believe chronic drug use is connected to that more than trying one and escalating the type of drug used.

Quoting Flymia (Reply 37):
It is the safest and more accessible drug for teens to obtain. Than at some point some will try some of the harder stuff. This is from my personal experience and I am only 19 years old. I just don’t get how people don’t believe marijuana is not a gateway drug. Show me some one who has done cocaine or ecstasy before marijuana and I will show you a unicorn.

I have smoked pot several times and have no desire to do anything else that is illegal because the effects from them are not something I want to deal with. For example cocaine is a stimulant and I really don't want to get hyper and if I do a red bull and vodka will work, also with E it hikes your body temperature and I really don't know what the actual effects are.

Also the two most dangerous things in terms of actual drugs (booze and cigarettes) are both legal and each one I can guarantee that each one kills more people by itself than all other drugs and you can add in drugs like Oxycontin into this group which also kill.
Just because someone decided that some things are legal and some are not doesn't mean the legal stuff in not dangerous.

Most of us Social Libertarians as I am question why alcohol and tobacco are legal and other drugs that are less harmless aren't.

Quoting Dc9northwest (Reply 41):

Marijuana fucks up memory too badly during the experience. Also, being a depressant, it can lead to slowed reaction time, and therefore accidents. I'm not saying there haven't been accidents while on coke, but most people are still themselves while on it, and have improved reflexes (not all, I assume).

Ok I wouldn't call myself a regular pot smoker but I have never had memory loss from it but have had the munches and slowed reaction times. It is also very relaxing and a good inducer of sleep. I have never experienced paranoia with it but that is what people I think would fear with it.

As for coke I would expect better reflexes because it is one hell of a stimulant.

Quoting Dc9northwest (Reply 41):
Tobacco.... I don't get why people use it. The buzz is shit, pure and simple, and smoking is disgusting.

Most cigarette smokers get hooked on the nicotine and not the tobacco, as for the buzz from some cigars its like very cheap pot and lasts maybe an hour at most.

Quoting Dc9northwest (Reply 41):
Ecstasy is not the safest of drugs, because it can lead to hyponatremia (upon drinking too much water) or dehydration (not drinking enough), but occasional use does not lead to holes in the brain as some might say.

My biggest fear of this is hyperthermia.

Quoting Dc9northwest (Reply 41):
I won't even go into alcohol. That's the one drug I would ban, although I still think it should be legal. But hey, I won't be touching that shit.

Your right its the most dangerous out there, its the only one that has a huge affect on your memory, your inhibitions, (which makes many people very aggressive and actually makes them think they can drive), and your motor skills all at once. I can control it but for those who can't its dangerous stuff.
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WarRI1
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:31 am



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 19):
The system is broken...can it be fixed...?

What the answer is, I certainly do not know, What is the cause of all this modern day madness? Are people weaker, or is there too much temptation out there to resist ? I have never smoked, taken recreational drugs or liked drinking, so I cannot relate.
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WarRI1
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Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:53 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
Yes, in fact my nephew died at 21 after a long battle with drugs and depression. Had those drugs been legal, he might not have been thrown into jail. He would have had an easier time getting rehab. He might be alive today.

I can understand someone who has depression getting into drugs maybe, maybe also poverty issues etc. I certainly do not understand people who are seekers, always looking for the next big thing. They always remind me of a song by Peggy Lee. "Is that all there is"
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
redflyer
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:44 am



Quoting Flymia (Reply 37):
What kind of government would sell cocaine or heroine to it's people?

I'll ignore the irony of your question, since government is 2nd only to religion for the amount of death and destruction that has been endured by the masses. But, more to the point, the kind of government that would sell cocaine or heroine to its people would be the same government that has poured hundreds of billions of dollars into a "war on drugs" over the last 30-some years when there's been absolutely no evidence that it has had any affect. Might as well try to recoup that money, and then some.
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vikkyvik
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:58 am



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 45):

I can understand someone who has depression getting into drugs maybe, maybe also poverty issues etc. I certainly do not understand people who are seekers, always looking for the next big thing. They always remind me of a song by Peggy Lee. "Is that all there is"

(Obviously not all drug users are addicts, but...)

Addiction does not discriminate between poor and rich, or any such thing. People who are depressed or have another mental condition may be more chemically prone to addiction, but otherwise, it's open season.

Most of the folks at the AA meeting I used to attend regularly were otherwise "normal" suburban middle-class people.

Drugs (including alcohol and tobacco) are a form of escape for most people. Some people only like to escape every now and again. Others get used to having that escape, and start abusing the drugs.

And everyone, irrespective of wealth or social standing, has problems in their lives that they'll want to escape from now and then.
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JoeCanuck
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:20 am



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 44):
What the answer is, I certainly do not know, What is the cause of all this modern day madness? Are people weaker, or is there too much temptation out there to resist ? I have never smoked, taken recreational drugs or liked drinking, so I cannot relate.

Addictions have been around for thousands of years and every culture has had to deal with them. There is nothing new about substance abuse.

Marijuana, coca, peyote, alcohol, hashish, opium and most of the current drugs have been around forever. What's different now...? Maybe nothing, maybe something as basic as people have more time on their hands to allow substance abuse to happen.
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Arguments Against Legalizing Drugs...

Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:19 pm



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 48):
Addictions have been around for thousands of years and every culture has had to deal with them. There is nothing new about substance abuse.

Marijuana, coca, peyote, alcohol, hashish, opium and most of the current drugs have been around forever. What's different now...? Maybe nothing, maybe something as basic as people have more time on their hands to allow substance abuse to happen.

What is different is that some have first concluded they can actually prevent use, and then had the power to impose this crazy idea on most of the world.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 42):
With so much money being thrown away on losing this war, there is almost nothing left for education or treatment.

Not wrong, with the added benefits of removing a major source of crime, adding an income stream for government and providing quality control over what sort of idiocies folk decide to dope themselves with. Arguably, it would not be a win win situation, it would be a fail to lose (financial and social costs of a failing policy), and win (crime), win (lower system costs), win (tax=education I hope) win (quality control) situation.

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